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Normally I don't like to talk about items that are going on in different US States than the one that I live in, but if something like this passes in Virginia I see no reason why it would not also pass in Oregon.
A BILL to amend and reenact §§ 16.1-77, 18.2-73, 18.2-74, 18.2-76, and 32.1-127 of the Code of Virginia, relating to abortions; eliminate certain requirements.
Link to the bill:
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+ful+HB2491
I found the changes and how they could be applied very interesting.
Notwithstanding any of the provisions of § 18.2-71 and in addition to the provisions of § 18.2-72, it shall be lawful for any physician licensed by the Board of Medicine to practice medicine and surgery, to terminate or attempt to terminate a human pregnancy or aid or assist in the termination of a human pregnancy by performing an abortion or causing a miscarriage on any woman during the second trimester of pregnancy and prior to the third trimester of pregnancy provided such procedure is performed in a hospital licensed by the State Department of Health or operated by the Department of Behavioral Health and Developmental Services.
(b) 2. The physician and two consulting physicians certify certifies and so enter enters in the hospital record of the woman, that in their the physician's medical opinion, based upon their the physician's best clinical judgment, the continuation of the pregnancy is likely to result in the death of the woman or substantially and irremediably impair the mental or physical health of the woman.
(c) 3. Measures for life support for the product of such abortion or miscarriage must shall be available and utilized if there is any clearly visible evidence of viability.
21. Shall require that each hospital that is equipped to provide life-sustaining treatment shall develop a policy governing determination of the medical and ethical appropriateness of proposed medical care, which shall include (i) a process for obtaining a second opinion regarding the medical and ethical appropriateness of proposed medical care in cases in which a physician has determined proposed care to be medically or ethically inappropriate; (ii) provisions for review of the determination that proposed medical care is medically or ethically inappropriate by an interdisciplinary medical review committee and a determination by the interdisciplinary medical review committee regarding the medical and ethical appropriateness of the proposed health care; and (iii) requirements for a written explanation of the decision reached by the interdisciplinary medical review committee, which shall be included in the patient's medical record. Such policy shall ensure that the patient, his agent, or the person authorized to make medical decisions pursuant to § 54.1-2986 (a) are informed of the patient's right to obtain his medical record and to obtain an independent medical opinion and (b) afforded reasonable opportunity to participate in the medical review committee meeting. Nothing in such policy shall prevent the patient, his agent, or the person authorized to make medical decisions pursuant to § 54.1-2986 from obtaining legal counsel to represent the patient or from seeking other remedies available at law, including seeking court review, provided that the patient, his agent, or the person authorized to make medical decisions pursuant to § 54.1-2986, or legal counsel provides written notice to the chief executive officer of the hospital within 14 days of the date on which the physician's determination that proposed medical treatment is medically or ethically inappropriate is documented in the patient's medical record;
Some key portions from the legislation are above, I neglected to bring in the stricken language about women needing ultrasounds and similar requirements because I think that is a separate issue.
https://freebeacon.com/issues/virginia-dems-attempt-to-pass-bill-allowing-abortions-up-to-40-weeks/ includes a video from the legislative proceedings with questions being asked of the bills sponsor Delegate Kathy Tran.
During Democratic Delegate Kathy Tran's presentation of the bill on Tuesday, Majority Leader Todd Gilbert (R.) asked her about the full extent of the bill's leniency.
"How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated that it would impair the mental health of the woman?" Gilbert asked.
"Or physical health," Tran said.
"Okay," Gilbert replied. "I'm talking about the mental health."
"I mean, through the third trimester," Tran said. "The third trimester goes up to 40 weeks."
"Okay, but to the end of the third trimester?" Gilbert asked.
"Yup, I don't think we have a limit in the bill," Tran said.
"Where it's obvious that a woman is about to give birth, she has physical signs that she's about to give birth, would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified?" Gilbert asked. "She's dilating."
Tran replied that was a decision the woman and her doctor would have to make before choosing to have an abortion. Gilbert asked specifically if the measure would allow for abortion right before birth.
"My bill would allow that, yes," Tran said.
https://freebeacon.com/issues/virginia-dems-attempt-to-pass-bill-allowing-abortions-up-to-40-weeks/ has a video of Virginia Governor Ralph Northam being interviewed about the subject. The Governor says that if the woman so wanted an abortion and was certified
So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if thats what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.
How can there be any discussion about this after the baby is already born?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Friday February 01 2019, @05:56PM (7 children)
Is it unimaginable to you that, given birth control and medical information, humans could learn to quit unintentionally creating lives?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by dry on Friday February 01 2019, @07:48PM (6 children)
So we're back to education and available birth control.
The problem is that there is a large spectrum of impulse control in people for various reasons.
One example is fetal alcohol syndrome where sufferers can have (very) limited impulse control. Prisons are full of them and I wouldn't be surprised if they have a large number of unplanned pregnancies.
OTOH, there are people with very low sex drives who have no problem avoiding unintended pregnancy. These people don't stand out, especially now a days when being unmarried/childless is quite socially acceptable, as they fit in with ideal morals.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 02 2019, @02:20AM (5 children)
No, you're missing the point.
We ALREADY HAVE those things, and yet we haven't eliminated the problem. Far from it. CDC estimated that 49% of pregnancies in the USA were unintended - in 2006, not 1806. Among women <=19yo it was more like 80%.
As I say, that's treating the symptoms not the causes. The causes are mostly social and economic changes. Having children and taking care of them has gotten much more expensive and much more 'problematic' might be the best way to say it. It's far less inviting than it was for previous generations. That's part of it - without that you might not have fewer pregnancies but you would have fewer unintended or unwanted pregnancies, which is what we're talking about after all.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by dry on Saturday February 02 2019, @03:28AM (4 children)
My understanding is that in many States, there is very little sex education, especially at the early age when it helps the most, due to religious reasons, very little access to birth control, for religious reasons and as a whole America is still very Puritan. Does the average high school have condom vending machines? Is it easy for an underage girl to go to her Doctor, whip out her medical insurance card (government issued here) and get a reasonably priced birth control prescription without her parents knowing or being shunned by the Doctor/Nurses? Even for older women, is it easy and cheap to get a birth control prescription in most all States?
I live in a bible belt here in Canada, those religious people are nuts in their attitude towards sex (and very unchristian in lots of other attitudes). Anti-abortion but the last thing they want is educated kids when it comes to sex and they sure get upset about access to birth control. They seem to think if they don't tell the kids about sex, they'll never figure it out. Just have to watch most any mammal, sex comes naturally and it is a lot easier to divert a strong urge such as sex then to stop it. These religious people would never tell/encourage their kids to masturbate either.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Sunday February 03 2019, @01:11AM (3 children)
Only thing i can comment on education wise (as i agree it is a situation where more is always better) is that i grew up in a very liberal city with sex ed in every grade from 5-12. In 5, 7 and 9th grades it was indepth and the remainder was a passing thing. My school had condoms available to any who wanted them. My graduating class ended with three single mothers and two girls with abortions. I dont think an education can fix stupidity, although it might reduce the number of times it happens.
My class also had extremely high drug use, so that could also play a part with lowering inhabitions and not thinking about consequences as well
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by dry on Sunday February 03 2019, @05:13AM (2 children)
Yea, it's complex. I remember one girl who was rumoured to have quit due to pregnancy. My son, who graduated 4 years back, doesn't remember any, which doesn't mean there weren't secret abortions.
Trying to research, DDG wants to give Canadian results. This article, https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/canadas-teen-birth-and-abortion-rate-drops-by-369-per-cent/article571685/ [theglobeandmail.com] claims that Canada's teen pregnancy rate has dropped by 36.9% between '96 and '06 with America having a 25% drop. This study, https://www.med.uottawa.ca/sim/data/Abortion_e.htm [uottawa.ca] points out the drop is least in Quebec, which also has sporadic sex education. It also has some stats that might interest you about abortion in Canada with no laws. Eg, 90% done in first trimester, only 2-3% after 16 weeks and past 20-21 weeks only for compelling health or genetic reasons.
This study by the NIH, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3194801/ [nih.gov] seems to state the best sex education is a mix, birth control and abstinence. Also has statistics on the various States.
Personally, I don't like abortion but also don't like removing a womans right to decide whether she wants to bring a pregnancy to term, as well as history has shown that prohibition just makes things worse, back alley abortionists in the case of abortion. Best seems to find the best way to educate. The other problems such as poverty are harder to deal with.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Sunday February 03 2019, @06:32PM (1 child)
I generally fall into the category of being okay with full legalization as long as i am not compelled to pay because of moral issues. Healthcare groups would work well for this, some places already make their christian orginazation healthcare groups so i don't see why pro-abortion groups can't either. If i was able to put aside the morals for money a good thing to do would build an aflac-like assurance for abortion/protection services that covers abortions/blan b/birth control. I am sure you could get enough new yorkers, californians, and oregonians onboard to make it quite profitable.
In general i can't imagine more education is bad. Although i absolutely hated the classes. I don't particularily enjoy three weeks of classes on jacking off in 5th grade, but this is just disagreements over content.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by dry on Sunday February 03 2019, @09:47PM
Yes, a problem with taxes (and other group things like insurance) is they go to pay for things that people find immoral, whether abortion or certain types of military conflicts and lots in between. OTOH, they also go to birthing and keeping people alive. Cost for my child's birth to us was zero besides the regular medical premiums and taxes.
I'll note that about half of abortions in Canada take place in private clinics, paid out of pocket I assume.