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Sorry Amazon: Philadelphia bans cashless stores
This week, Philadelphia's mayor signed a bill that would ban cashless retail stores, according to The Morning Call. The move makes Philadelphia the first major city to require that brick-and-mortar retail stores accept cash. Besides Philadelphia, Massachusetts has required that retailers accept cash since 1978, according to CBS.
The law takes effect July 1, and it will not apply to stores like Costco that require a membership, nor will it apply to parking garages or lots, or to hotels or rental car companies that require a credit or debit card as security for future charges, according to the Wall Street Journal. Retailers caught refusing cash can be fined up to $2,000.
Amazon, whose new Amazon Go stores are cashless and queue-less, reportedly pushed back against the new law, asking for an exemption. According to the WSJ, Philadelphia lawmakers said that Amazon could work around the law under the exemption for stores that require a membership to shop there, but Amazon told the city that a Prime membership is not required to shop at Amazon Go stores, so its options are limited.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MostCynical on Tuesday March 12 2019, @08:26AM (22 children)
in Australia, New Zealand and the UK, cash payments are often encouraged by small businesses, often with a discount (especially without a receipt/tax invoice), as these payments will not be reported for tax purposes.
Some businesses even run "cash only".
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 3, Informative) by ledow on Tuesday March 12 2019, @08:30AM (15 children)
And somehow the general populous are okay with that, but not okay with benefit cheats, or companies or politicians or celebrities evading tax.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Pav on Tuesday March 12 2019, @08:58AM (4 children)
Aussie here... No, neither is OK. It's called a "cashie", ie. a cash job, and gets an eyeroll. Noone usually makes a scene because it's not tax evasion until it isn't reported at tax time... and noone wants the banks in total control through electronic only payments either.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Tuesday March 12 2019, @11:00AM (2 children)
A technicality that makes people feel better.
Hopefully anyone paying cash in hand will then go on to fill in https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/TEH_IRF, [service.gov.uk] however I suspect they won't.
(Score: 2) by Pav on Tuesday March 12 2019, @12:36PM
Usually it's easier to demand a receipt... If the business owner is still stupid enough to keep things off the books, WHEN a customer gets audited then they'll get caught.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hendrikboom on Tuesday March 12 2019, @02:28PM
Form not found
Sorry, this form is currently unavailable. Please try again later.
Select 'Next' to return to GOV.UK. If the problem persists you may wish to contact the HM Revenue & Customs Online Services Helpdesk.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 12 2019, @07:09PM
you're a suckass slave.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Pav on Tuesday March 12 2019, @09:13AM (1 child)
BTW, Australia has just had a Royal Commission into banking... and billions upon billions have been stolen from customers, in part through bogus charges to just such debit and credit card accounts. Of course the conservatives are handing out stern words, wrist slaps, and sugary sympathy to ripped off customers. I guess if the crimes are big enough...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 12 2019, @03:57PM
Ah, the USofA missed the opportunity of Royal Commissions.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday March 12 2019, @10:58AM (5 children)
For small business, at least - food trucks with a single owner operator, single person house cleaning services, single person landscaping services, owner operated plumbing service - cutting corners this way is often the only way to stay open. I live in Pennsylvania and the wife of my self-employed friend has an autoimmune disorder. His family health insurance is $40,000 per year, plus he has a deductible. Of course he prefers cash payment for his services and doesn't report 100% of his actual income to the state and federal government. His choices are "cheat on taxes" or "go out of business and hope Medicaid will cover the medicines his wife needs to stay alive". And he still reports income and pays taxes, he just keeps as much as he can off the books.
That's a lot different from companies or politicians or celebrities evading tax. And frankly I don't care about benefit cheats, average American food stamp (SNAP) benefits for a family of four is $465 per month - big fucking deal, close a few tax loopholes that the cheats use and you could write a check to every family in the country for that amount each month. My dad worked full time and paid taxes from age 17 to 62 and then got laid off, and was forced to collect SNAP benefits for a year before he found another job. Shit happens.
(Score: 4, Informative) by isostatic on Tuesday March 12 2019, @11:32AM (2 children)
His family health insurance is $40,000 per year
What is wrong with your country?
To spend $40k (£30k) in health care in the UK you'd have to have two earners each paying £75k in tax, or earning about £180k each in tax.
If it's one earner it's £150k in tax or about £350k a year ($460k)
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 12 2019, @12:12PM
It's America. They fuck ya. It's like in India where you have a cast system, except in America it's like that with health. If you are born sick or just get bad luck, then you better die fast as otherwise it's a painful death with no health insurance. Like a 3rd world country.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Wednesday March 13 2019, @04:15PM
What's wrong with my country? Plenty. If you're bored you can go to the Pennsylvania health insurance exchanges to buy private family insurance. You can get the same $40k numbers he's actually paying.
I'll be even more angry if true socialized medicine doesn't hit within the next five years. The situation has been untenable for a long time, I just think the inertia of anti-socialism propaganda is finally getting overcome by sheer frustration.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 12 2019, @11:56AM (1 child)
There are apparently about 80 million families in the US, so 80e6*465*12 ~ $450 billion per year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/183659/number-of-families-in-the-us/ [statista.com]
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday March 12 2019, @03:46PM
Which is peanuts when you consider that national wealth is in the 50 trillion range.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday March 12 2019, @11:03AM (1 child)
Sorry to do this:
"Populous" means numerous.
"Populace" means the common people of a country.
In your sentence above it would be "general populace."
It's an error that's cropping up more often in recent years, probably because of predictive typing. I don't usually point out grammar or spelling issues but do so here because non-native speakers of English or even less careful speakers of English might not realize it's a mistake.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 12 2019, @08:04PM
Hmmm. But aren't you one of those who "begs the question" incorrectly, but justifies it by saying that is how it is commonly used?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday March 12 2019, @10:48AM (1 child)
In the US that's a popular model for small businesses too. It's partly for tax purposes but maybe mostly or even entirely because most electronic banking systems charge transaction fees. It's not a big deal when you're selling expensive items, because then you can pad the price of the transaction fee into the retail pricing. But if, for example, you're selling inexpensive food then adding the price of credit card transaction fees into your pricing might be enough to send customers to the competition and keeping it out of your pricing might cut your margins enough to put you out of business.
But either way the win for me here is that I prefer to withdraw cash and then buy everything that way, so that one less company tracks everything I buy and how much I spend at each retail location and sells it. I live close to Philadelphia, and I'm glad the city did this.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by nobu_the_bard on Tuesday March 12 2019, @12:59PM
It's also legal in (most?) of PA for small businesses to reject card payments for small amounts of money, as such transactions can actually end up costing the merchant more than they make on the sale. They're also allowed to have different card/cash prices, for certain things, at least gas (and many gas stations still have signs with separate cash and credit pricing) and though I don't see that being leveraged as much to encourage cash these days I don't think its off the books.
(Score: 2) by TheFool on Tuesday March 12 2019, @01:41PM
In the US, payment processors (Visa, Mastercard, etc) won't allow you to encourage discounts for using cash with anything but a kind word. They can do this by refusing to be your payment processor if you try. I'm sure you could be clever about it, but most businesses just shrug.
But yes, you do see the occasional "cash or check only" business once you get outside the cities here too.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday March 12 2019, @01:58PM
We love cash, don't we? I use it as much as possible. I built the Wollman Skating Rink in Central Park (NYC). And I run that one on a cash only basis. Cash business is great business. And another one is the Casino business. Very tough business to be in, but incredible amounts of cash coming in there. You have to be careful about the counting. Find some guys that wear yarmulkes, they're very good with money. And if you play your cards right you can go very far with that one. Ka ching!!
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 12 2019, @04:13PM
On the other side...
Homeless people can take card payments [thebigissue.org.au]
Buskers too [abc.net.au]
They say this is "...to combat increasingly cashless society" - hmmm, a "combat" situation. I (rhetorically) wonder who is winning?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1) by gaffa on Wednesday March 13 2019, @10:03PM
As a business I prefer the low transaction- and subscription fee on cash payments.
As a customer I think cash is the easiest method of payment.