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New Zealand Mobile Carriers Block 8chan, 4chan, and LiveLeak
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New Zealand Mobile Carriers Block 8chan, 4chan, and LiveLeak
Following the Friday mass shooting in Christchurch, New Zealand, multiple internet service providers (ISP) in the country have blocked access to websites that distribute gruesome content from the incident.
[...] At least three internet companies operating in New Zealand have made this decision voluntarily and enforce it on a temporary basis against sites that still publish the sensitive materials. Spark NZ, Vodafone NZ, and Vocus NZ agreed to work together to identify and block access at DNS level to such online locations. 8chan and 4chan are currently unavailable to New Zealanders trying to load them through a connection from the three telcos. At the moment, visitors trying to get to these forums through Spark NZ, Vodafone NZ and Vocus NZ see the message "The URL has been blocked for security reasons."
Some users reported that LiveLeak video-sharing platform was also blocked in the region, along with other websites, including file-sharing service Mega. The block is not permanent, though. As soon as the horrific content from the Christchurch incident originating from the terrorists is removed, access to the website is reestablished.
The Dark Night of Censorship falls on New Zealand
Everybody keeps waiting for the dystopia to arrive, well wait no more for it has made an appearance in New Zealand. Zero Hedge reports that New Zealand is dropping the hammer on all discussion about the recent shooting. The list is growing and will almost certainly be larger by the time this story goes live.
Current banned sites seem to be: Dissenter.com (the new service from Gab yet gab.com is still reported as available.... for now), "all" of the "chans" are banned, and Zerohedge itself is now banned.
Subscribers who ask their ISP are reporting being told sites will stay banned until they become "censorship compliant." Sites not banned: Facebook.com, which live streamed the attack, and Twitter.com, which hosted the original link to the shooter's "manifesto." Guess they are "censorship compliant."
Suppression of Christchurch shooting video
After Christchurch, Reddit bans communities infamous for sharing graphic videos of death
In the aftermath of the tragic mosque massacre that claimed 49 lives in Christchurch, New Zealand, tech companies scrambled to purge their platforms of promotional materials that the shooter left behind. As most of the internet is now unfortunately aware, the event was broadcast live on Facebook, making it one of the most horrific incidents of violence to spread through online communities in realtime.
As Twitter users cautioned others from sharing the extraordinarily graphic video, some Reddit users actively sought the video and knew exactly where to look. The infamous subreddit r/watchpeopledie was quarantined (making it unsearchable) in September 2018 but until today remained active for anyone to visit directly. The subreddit has a long history of sharing extremely graphic videos following tragic events and acts of violence, like the 2018 murder of two female tourists in Morocco.
[...] The subreddit remained active until some time late Friday morning Pacific Time, when Reddit banned the controversial community.
How 'hashing' could stop violent videos from spreading
Some experts say tech companies should more broadly adopt a technology they're already using to combat child pornography and copyright violations to more quickly stop the spread of these types of videos.
[...] Facebook (FB) says it took down the livestream "quickly," but hours later, re-uploads of it were still circulating on the site. Twitter suspended the original account in question and is working to remove other versions on the platform. YouTube said it is utilizing "technology and human resources" to remove content that violates their policies.
Technologists say digital hashing, which has existed for more than a decade, could be better used to prevent the re-upload of videos. Hashing wouldn't have been able to catch the original live video of the attacks, but it could stop re-uploaded copies from spreading.
Social media platforms were used like lethal weapons in New Zealand. That must change now.
Editorial judgment, often flawed, is not only possible. It's necessary.
The scale and speed of the digital world obviously complicates that immensely. But saying, in essence, "we can't help it" and "that's not our job" are not acceptable answers.
Friday's massacre should force the major platforms — which are really media companies, though they don't want to admit it — to get serious.
After New Zealand Attacks, Muslim-Americans Call For Action Against Rising Bigotry
"The New Zealand shooter was able to livestream a 17-minute video of his murderous rampage that continues to spread like wildfire online. This is flatly unacceptable. Tech companies must take all steps possible to prevent something like this from happening again," Khera said.
Previously: 49 Dead in Christchurch, New Zealand Terror Attack
Original Submission #1 Original Submission #2 Original Submission #3 Original Submission #4
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:26PM (13 children)
What manner of your own Technical Measures could you suggest?
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:52PM
Not bothering to search for or watch the video has worked for me so far :-p
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:10PM (11 children)
Bittorrent for the immediate need of preserving the video. It's easy to find at the friendly, local pirate bay. My copy just finished and is on permaseed. (The capitalists don't want us to have it, and so while at the moment I'm not sure why I want it, because I won't watch it, the fact of the capitalists not wanting me to have it is good enough.)
Then we need distributed social. GNUSocial and Diaspora* come to mind. XMPP for messaging.
Those social networks could be modified to work independently of the DNS system on the clearnet. This may also be a use-case for darknets like i2p, which (and I have not looked at the code for Tor and i2p in detail) seem to be a way of getting around the DNS problem. So perhaps we should spin up some social nodes on i2p and make sure that GNUSocial and Diaspora* will function correctly on a darknet. (And if not, we're a bunch of programmers here, so let's roll up our sleeves for great justice.)
There is also freenet, which is document oriented and would make a good archival resource in addition to bittorrent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:33PM (5 children)
..and this is where I'd say it's okay even though I think removing this video from websites are okay (not blocking the sites). I don't want the videoclip to go out of existance, but it shouldn't be in peoples face.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:38PM (4 children)
That's fine. The video is clearly against the TOS or community guidelines of YouTube, Facebook, etc. It seems that New Zealand wants to take it a step further. We'll see how "temporary" the censorship measures turn out to be.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday March 18 2019, @11:03PM (2 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday March 21 2019, @02:49AM (1 child)
New developments [arstechnica.com] have happened since the story was posted, but there is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_New_Zealand#Freedom_of_speech [wikipedia.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday March 21 2019, @11:42AM
Fuck it, you can finish that sentence yourself, the first half of it has put my brain in a spin.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 19 2019, @04:04AM
1984 was not temporary
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:27PM (3 children)
It's not Capitalists trying to censor in this case. Their domain of censorship involves copyright and information "ownership".
This is closer to the work of the progressive left, communists, etc., who try to censor to keep people from learning anything harmful to their agenda or party, whether it's true or not. Their agenda includes censorship and disarming their citizenry, but they need support for it, and shocking events like this allow them to finally clamp down further and use it as justification.
All they have to do to is wait for every next event to whittle your freedoms and ability to fight it down to nothing.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:54PM
Do you ever listen to yourself? I mean you sound like a complete moron.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:59PM
yes and so the politicians and media can lie and misrepresent the motives of the attacker. god forbid they just post the fucking manifesto.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @07:09AM
Mind you, snuff is already illegal.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday March 18 2019, @12:11PM
For those of you looking for a footnote, the "*" in Diaspora*" is part of the name, not a footnote indicator.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by bzipitidoo on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:30PM (9 children)
A horrific mass murder was just committed, and now there are screams for action. And so the authorities ... busy themselves with futile censorship? A mass murder makes great cover to censor a few other things. Like, oh, evidence that politicians have been stoking feelings of loss, victimization, and fear among the rabble, and taking bribes from weapons manufacturers. At this moment, they're probably busy scrubbing their websites of all such hints of violence. Who do they think they're kidding?
What might real, effective action look like? More gun control? I have doubts about that one too. Maybe, less wealth inequality? Make masculinity less prone to toxicity? I'm supposing the perp was an incel. Or can it be there's not much that anyone can do to head off future mass shootings and suicide bombings and the like?
Another area that may be in need of action after this is relationships between the West and the Islamic world. They have more than their share of fanatic madmen who'd find in this an excellent excuse to start a war.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:17PM (7 children)
The question I'm more interested in: NZ is part of the five-eyes panopticon already. How come, with all the snooping going around, they weren't able to prevent this?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:26PM
Able, but not willing.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:32PM (4 children)
What makes you think they "weren't" able to prevent this? On the contrary, why should anybody believe that the state didn't help, or even direct this guy?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:46PM (3 children)
Because the blowback from getting caught is huge.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:09PM (2 children)
If they get caught! And so what? They print the story on the tabloids, who's gonna believe it? The state gets caught doing shit all the time, and nothing happens. The empire stands tall!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:41PM (1 child)
Keep doing it repeatedly, and it becomes when not if.
And the blowback is destruction of the intelligence sharing schemes that have been going on.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Unixnut on Sunday March 17 2019, @10:39PM
Not if they control your source of information. I don't know if many people are aware, but under anti-terror legislation in the UK and EU, anyone who views, holds a copy, or shares the video, the guys manifesto, or anything else directly related to this event can go to prison for 10 years.
I hear that New Zealand has pretty much declared the same thing.
This is the clearest example yet of how controlled people in these countries are. Even If I manage to evade all the blocks, the great firewall of the UK, and deleted links from big online media to actually find a copy, I would be committing a criminal offense that could put me in jail and ruin my life and career.
As such, I officially can only get the information on what happened from the government approved media now, and they can filter/twist or outright lie to sell me a story the government wants me to hear. It doesn't matter what the truth is anymore.
And once the mass populations only source of information is what the government says, then they can pretty much get away with what they want indefinitely, no matter how many times they repeat it. Even if there are a few "criminals" who seek out the truth, they are too few and far between to make a difference, and if they do try to alert the masses, they get prosecuted under anti terror legislation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:27PM
Perhabs they picked Huawei for their 5G network and USA turned a cold shoulder on them.
Analog to recent threats against Germany from USA.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Bot on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:27PM
As I say in case of the yellow vests. They gather, SOME commit crimes, police FAILS to prevent and often to arrest, failure is blamed on yellow vests and they get called ASSASSINS by none other than the fucking prime minister they gathered against. Hello there, fuehrer, always the victim eh.
When acts of violence occur, it is a failure of the authorities. Understandable failure? probably. But they always bring the role of victims to themselves with all those public speeches at funerals and declaration to the media lapdogs. Then they use this as a way to force things, to get even. They really cannot ever lose.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by turgid on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:41PM (33 children)
If it had been members of my family being murdered, I wouldn't want it streamed for all to see over the Internet. That's just beyond disgusting. There really is no good reason for this sort of "content" to be available to the public.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:53PM (6 children)
Why does the reason have to be "good"?
What if someone decides that your talking about how to attack computer systems isn't "good"?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:55PM (5 children)
What a flimsy argument. No wonder you post as AC.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 4, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:59PM
I too wouldn't want murder of my friends or relatives broadcast over the network, but destroying peoples' freedom of speech is even worse.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Bot on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:34PM (3 children)
Interesting factoid for you, If my family were among the victims, I wished they had a weapon so they could have died like men, not as cows in a slaughterhouse. Make of this what you want.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:47PM (2 children)
I assume you mean some sort of hand-to-hand combat weapon, since hiding behind a projectile weapon is hardly dying "like a man" (or to ditch the gender crap, like a strong, brave person).
(Score: 2) by Bot on Monday March 18 2019, @11:54AM (1 child)
It is when you are against another gun toting guy.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 19 2019, @04:09AM
The problem with this is that when people have guns on them they are more likely to use them.
Hence the state of the USA
I'm with you, but live in a place where carrying a gun for defence is illegal. Even carrying a knife or in fact any weapon for defence is illegal. We're sitting ducks.
Still, you are unlikely to get shot on the street here
So it goes both ways.
Is there a middle ground? Because around here only the police and the criminals and the special groups like farmers have guns.
Don't forget, the police are only minutes away if you need them.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:55PM (7 children)
People are such easy prey for the authoritarians. They just wait for some tragedy like this to happen and then use it as an excuse to tighten their grip, while you applaud them for doing so because (somehow, despite all the historical examples) you can't appreciate the wider consequences of what they are doing.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:56PM (6 children)
Another flimsy and ignorant argument from the brave Anonymous Coward.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:02PM
You are just coming up with excuses to ignore people who point out the negative consequences of the actions you propose, If you want to say dumb stuff in an echo chamber go to facebook.
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:28PM (2 children)
Here, millions of people are harmed (the three companies have considerable market share). Whole sites are censored because of a single video. It's utterly retarded and leads one to ask what's next? How much of the internet is going to be blocked by New Zealand ISPs because there are trolls and idiots on the internet?
Further, who instigated this course of action? All these ISPs had to do was say "Not my job" and nothing would come of it. They went out of their way to censor this stuff. Where I come from, this sort of organized manipulation would be subject to anti-competition law. That implies government coercion might be involved.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @11:32AM (1 child)
Facebook and Youtube? And you want me to regret that?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 19 2019, @12:29AM
Khallow generally likes to suck up to, or suck off, the wealthy. He opposes regulations that might reduce the amount of capital his fetishized richies have. So of course he wants you to regret that, and he will be totally unable to understand why you do not. Time to set the dial back to "normal", and never set it all the way to "khallow" again.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Bot on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:38PM (1 child)
“There is one difference,” I pointed out. “In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.”
“Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:05PM
If you are quoting, you should also name the original author. The second part of your post is by Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's chief propagandist.
That doesn't make it any less true, unfortunately.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:00PM (5 children)
Reason #1 to watch is that the video shows what not to do if caught in a mass shooting: huddling in a corner is ineffective.
For example, at one point early in the video one heroic person attacks the shooter and knocks him over and he fumbles his gun. He recovers and shoots the defender. Had there been one more heroic person right behind the first one, it would probably have been over pretty quickly. Three more and that would have almost certainly been the end of the shooting.
Another lesson and perfectly acceptable and understandable: run for your life -- dive through a window -- whatever it takes but move away from the shooter.
Another lesson, if you get shot don't give up. One woman is shot from a distance. She falls and calls out repeatedly "help me". The shooter closes the distance, shoots her again, and then runs her over. Crawl if you must but never give up. The harder you make it for the shooter to get you, the more people you protect by wasting the shooter's time.
Reading this won't make those lessons salient and believable. Watching the video will make them crystal clear in a way nothing else can.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by turgid on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:02PM (2 children)
A very weak argument indeed.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:13PM
If your goal is to not live through or minimize the consequences of being caught in such a situation, then yeah, weak.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:03PM
Please explain the flaw in it for those who are not so wise as you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @08:27PM (1 child)
I agree that there are many lessons in this video. Many people with a fantasy to do grave harm, also have unrealistic views of what killing people really means. For people who are not truly fucked up beyond help, this video will make them realize it's not a fucking video game, even though it kind of looks like one. Also, in that musrat's defense she was probably seriously debilitated. Maybe paralyzed. I felt sorry for her, but not enough to want her around. She would have certainly bred more little jihadi desert rats. I also don't like them being brought in under the false pretense that they are welcome. Their blood is on these brainwashed whites' hands.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 19 2019, @04:12AM
It is hard to feel compassion for a group of people who have declared war on you. Even when they are being shot by a madman in broad daylight. All I can think is that if this was the middle east then that would be me on the ground dying in a pool of blood.
(Score: 2, Informative) by fustakrakich on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:36PM (1 child)
Well, like it or not, no "reason" is needed, you have no right to prohibit others from posting and downloading it. Censorship is damage.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:11PM
You can't actually expect him to support freedom of speech, this is 2019, only nazi's value freedom of speech!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:55PM
What about napalm girl?
What about the mass graves during $WAR?
Journalism is more important than the family's feelings.
Consider that if you had your way, the history textbooks we give children wouldn't contain photos of mass graves full of dead jews. That is a worse world.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:59PM (1 child)
No shit. It just shows how little decency these people have. People that download these shit should be charged with aiding and abetting terrorism. These people are the enablers of these Nazis.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:05PM
Am I aiding and abetting genocide? Am I enabling nazis?
Seeing those photos as a child had a huge impact on me, and it sure wasn't in the direction of wanting more of that in the world.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:20PM
I'm not interested in watching it but it was live streamed and is already a part of the historical public record. Authoritarian calls for censorship were exactly what the perpetrator wanted. [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by TheFool on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:41PM (4 children)
I absolutely agree. But still I don't think it should be illegal.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday March 18 2019, @01:21PM (3 children)
Really? How about beheading videos [wikipedia.org]?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by TheFool on Monday March 18 2019, @04:29PM (2 children)
As far as I'm concerned, it's the same type of video. Both are done by disgusting people to draw attention to themselves, or in the case that the person no longer identifies as themself but as "a ZZZ member", to draw attention to the label rather than the individual.
I think it's disgusting and harmful to watch these videos. And I think it's a sign of a sick society that anyone would spend even a few minutes to watch people die at all, whether it's just out of curiosity or something else. But that's a choice, and someone else's choice to do so does not affect my choice to not do so (no, I don't think running into it somewhere counts - you can always turn away). I don't think the state should be in the business of deciding what videos are acceptable to watch any more than they decide what books are acceptable to read or what thoughts are acceptable to have.
Private companies, like ISPs? That's a different discussion. But it absolutely should not be illegal to have the video or to share it.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday March 18 2019, @04:36PM (1 child)
Except these kind of vclips and manifestos are used as a recruitment tool for sickos.
And one of these sickos may disagree with your choice and affect it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by TheFool on Monday March 18 2019, @06:13PM
Whether they are recruited by these videos or not is not because the state failed some duty to prevent them from seeing the video. It's by a number of factors, but the most important is probably that they think that what we are doing as a community is worse than people who literally behead people for disagreeing with them. That is the problem - not the existence or sharing of the video. Our efforts should be focused on understating what we lack as a society and "recruiting" them back.
Granted, that hinges on the idea that most people are fundamentally good. So you may not agree.
I think these groups would rather kill me than affect this choice. They're welcome to try, but I'm not sure how well they'd do. And I think most of the methods they could use to physically force me to do something are already illegal.
Unless you're talking about the other sickos who want to dictate what people see and hear, of course. I think I'd mostly ignore them. I doubt they'd be willing to enforce that law in a just and even way, so I'd probably be able to watch it and share discreetly with no consequence. It's illegal to drive and use a cell phone here, but I think banning this video would be enforced about as well as that law is (read: not at all unless the cop wants to bully you).
(Score: 3, Insightful) by dwilson on Sunday March 17 2019, @11:03PM
If it had been members of my family being murdered, I wouldn't want it streamed for all to see over the Internet. I'd also recognize there is no technical, political, social or legal way to STOP it from being streamed against my will, accept it and move along.
- D
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @03:48PM (7 children)
I think this is acceptable content to remove. If you want murder as entertainment, you should fight it out in a reality show with like-minded people. I don't think blocking entire websites are a good method, it seems desperate.
The content hashing of videos can be fairly simple. You make a simple barcode-like image of a large number of frames scaled to 1 px in width and a larger resolution in height. With that you can give a video a similarity score. A simple checksum hash of the video wont do. Any other good methods with broader statistics on color distribution?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:40PM (1 child)
Ok, so you probably think it is acceptable to remove it from normie networks like Facebook and YouTube, using something like hashing. But is it acceptable to punish and censor every website that hosts it?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:12PM
If my opinion really matters, I think I already said it; No.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:17PM (3 children)
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/ac/1b/a3ac1b9b0f6f09494dd54099fa6c0b31.jpg [pinimg.com]
Or could it just be that documenting atrocities is a good first step to preventing them?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:15PM (2 children)
We can begin to discuss that if you have any scientific studies on the subject. Another question could be; does the content generate apathy and more killers in addition to being hurting to the victims families?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:04PM
I wish I was better read in the matter, but I'm not. The German government however probably does know a thing or two about preventing radicalization.
(https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/germans/germans/education.html)
Pretty sure those museums are going to include such horrors as a major part of them, but I haven't checked and that is pure speculation.
If you watched that video and came away apathetic, you are fucked up. It doesn't need string music, slow motion, and snappy editing to be emotionally impactful, it's real and that suffices.
I expect this will tank the alt-right's recruitment. Which effect is stronger is something I don't know enough to speculate about, if you've good reason to believe it's heavily weighted towards creating more killers (inb4 the FBI's school shooting coverage statements, the motives are very different (ego vs political), I kinda agree w.r.t. school shooting videos) then please cite it.
Immaterial compared to the importance of free speech. Mass murder can hold it's own against freedom of speech, hurt feelings can't.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Sunday March 17 2019, @09:49PM
A possible outcome: the next school shootings will be live streamed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @03:30AM
Well as long as we're going that route, other people feel that not worshiping Allah is not good. As that's not good, then it should be blocked and banned, by your reasoning.
All worship Allah!
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:32PM
Please block Twitter and Facebook next.
And when you realize you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, just get it over with and unplug the entire freaking internet.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:48PM (4 children)
What motivates a crime like this? Racism.
What motivates racism? Anti- immigrant stance
What motivates an anti- immigrant stance? Economic hardship
What causes economic hardship? A failure of the economy
What is the economy? Free market Capitalism
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:39PM
It was partly motivated by racism, partly by politics, partly by the desire for infamy.
His racism was party motivated by anti-immigration, partly by a superiority complex, partly by the illusory truth effect, partly by a lack probability theory.
His anti-immigration stance was partly motivated by economic hardship, partly motivated by racism, partly motivated by a resistance to a changing status quo.
Economic hardship was partly caused by a failure of the economy, partly by his own failings, partly by chance.
The failure of the economy is actually entirely pinnable on the free market, I'll grant that last line.
By the time you arrive at the free market the amount of blame left, diluted between many various causes at each step, is minuscule. This is poor thinking.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:42PM
Except when it's not. It's interesting how much people complain about free market capitalism in situations where it's been deliberately broken. Do you expect your car to work, if you smash the engine block?
Or a person who can't work with other people. I get the feeling this guy would be toxic to work with. There are other reasons internal and external, like being incompetent with money or counterproductive labor law that makes it more expensive to employ natives than immigrants (legal and/or illegal).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @06:30AM
What motivates racism? Exposure to other races. (solution: do not have other races)
What motivates an anti-immigrant stance? Exposure to immigrants. (solution: do not have immigrants)
It is pretty obvious if you think about it. When you mix different types of people, you will get conflict. This is how people work. You're lucky if you don't get a full-scale genocide. By mixing up different types of people, you are enabling and encouraging conflict, making you partly guilty of any cruel results.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 19 2019, @10:41AM
muslim is not a race
keep up
(Score: 0, Troll) by garrulus on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:50PM (5 children)
Jesus this site turned into a bunch of fags
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:05PM (4 children)
If you're on board with Brenton Tarrant as your comment [soylentnews.org] history [soylentnews.org] suggests [soylentnews.org], maybe you should stop being a "fag" and wield your own guns. Then we won't have to hear from your dumb ass again in 6 months.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:44PM (3 children)
You are literally advocating terrorism and could probably be charged if he took your advice (if you live in certain countries).
I do not support the laws which criminalize your speech, but you should be careful saying things like that.
>inb4 it wasn't sincere
lol, do you think that'll work in court? It's obviously insincere, but that's not as good a defence as it ought be in any country I'm aware of.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:14PM
He probably does. There appears to be no shortage of people who think they can codify their emotional reactions into law.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:16PM (1 child)
Your fake lawyer badge is showing. There is no specific threat or incitement in that comment.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:28PM
and didn't intend to give the impression I did.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Sunday March 17 2019, @04:56PM (4 children)
I went to LiveLeak first, about 1-2 hours after the event, only to find users loudly complaining that LiveLeak had caved and intervened to replace the full video with a 27-second clip (showing the shooter walk from the car to the mosque entrance). So if LiveLeak was blocked, that kind of misses the mark.
I think I went to YouTube next, and failed to find anything beyond a video that heavily censored the bad parts with a opaque/embossed overlay and extremely muffled sound. But the comments pointed me to Kiwi Farms, a site that offered a direct download and torrent link. Now Kiwi Farms is being scrutinized:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-17/new-zealand-police-demand-kiwi-farms-messsage-board-preserve-ip-addresses-and-email [zerohedge.com]
It's absurd to call someone a criminal for seeking out and downloading this video. Journalists have found and watched it in order to form their conclusions, among many others. I have it on my hard drive and so should you.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:02PM (3 children)
Aiding and abetting terrorism, for starters.
Go fuck yourself. What a fucking lowlife.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:09PM
Woooweee, you seem to be lost in the sauce.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:49PM (1 child)
I genuinely have no idea why you think these things. Will you please explain:
1) how it is or encourages terrorism
2) what else is wrong enough with watching it that it should be criminal
3) why you think that guy's a lowlife despite him obviously not believing that his actions where harmful at the time he took them (this one is mostly just curiosity, the first two are way more important)
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday March 17 2019, @09:12PM
AC's comment is self-explanatory; AC is either deeply stupid, or much more charitably, trolling. Although I guess it could be interesting to see that brain fart "elaborated" upon.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @05:01PM (1 child)
Fascist terrorists murder 49 in Christchurch, New Zealand [wsws.org]:
Also a short statement from Aotearoa Workers Solidarity Movement [libcom.org]. An injury to one is an injury to all!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @03:46AM
libcom's blag posted a perspective piece about racism, nationalism, and neocolonialism: Global Capitalism, Empire, White Supremacy: The Mosque Shooting In Perspective [libcom.org].
(Score: 2, Insightful) by splenolymph on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:36PM (1 child)
10 years for having a copy ?
14 years for sharing a copy ?
even if it was 100 years for actually doing the shooting (or death?), who are they kidding ? it makes the cost of doing the shooting seem so low...
Kiwis, like most modern peoples, are governed by morons, utterly bereft of sense.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @07:14PM
Sentences should automatically be reduced by a fixed percentage per year. That way no politician need ever campaign to reduce the prison sentence for raping a child, yet we manage to avoid unjustly inflated sentences. (if you think that sentence _can't_ be unjustly large, then grow some balls and advocate for the death sentence)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:56PM
There was no problem with presenting decapitation videos even in TV, if only political conditioning was OK. The main information shown has to be: "Arab countries are bad and must be conquered by US/Israel". This motivates showing any videos. Now, suddenly, a similar terrorist video is forbidden only because it does not fit the propaganda picture, so the censorship is full-blown and people want it. That's how censorship is introduced: People want it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday March 17 2019, @06:58PM (4 children)
Ugh, the ruling class played right into this guy's hands. I am sure he wanted this sort of thing to happen, the better to get ordinary Kiwis pissed off at their own government with, to speed up the pace of societal collapse. You know what? Maybe that needs to happen there.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday March 17 2019, @09:20PM (3 children)
I'm not sure that New Zealand is anywhere close to collapse, even if some people there dislike the government's response. Ironically, the most damage could be done in the U.S. It's too early to tell now but might become more obvious in a few years.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @02:43AM
The political damage plays out in the US and Europe, see the NPR link:
Yeah, except Muslims even play the victim when it's an Islamist attack. To repurpose an old antisemitic slur, "the Muslim crys out in pain as he strikes you". As we've learned, the correct response is to hold a candle lit vigil and carry on as if nothing has happened; "part and parcel of living in a big city". Anything more would be a breech of precedent and viewed as an overreaction. At least, I don't remember Muslims rallying against bigotry after the Pulse nightclub shooting.
The left made their bed with an intolerant, supremacist and right wing ideology; Islam is simply the pawn in a bigger game but the left has taken the bait. [twitter.com] Cerebral narcissists know exactly which buttons to press; leftists and the establishment have fucked themselves so far into a corner with Islam that there's no surgical procedure to save the patients. The psychopath prays on naivety, victims do it to themselves and in this instance the sucker punch was devastating. Acting to censor and prevent copycat attacks will be counterproductive, exactly as the psychopath explained in his manifesto.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday March 18 2019, @05:43AM (1 child)
What the AC below you said. I am continually somewhere between mystified and horrified at the weird hypnosis Islam seems to have cast over most of the left, and on more than one occasion have had to bring it forcefully to peoples' attention that Islam is where Christianity was 500 years ago and should be treated as such.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday March 18 2019, @01:45PM
With massacres?
I think this shooting provides a model that others will follow. Stephen Paddock shot at a larger group of fairly random targets in Las Vegas, and only managed to kill a handful more people than Brenton Harrison Tarrant did. BT engaged in closer range with his more specific targets. He had a magazine taped to his weapon in order to reload faster, made sure to shoot people who weren't moving, checked around corners, etc. The video plays out like a first person shooter game.
And of course, the marketing can't be ignored. Preannounced on 8chan, where being that edgy won't raise too much suspicion, but people might start to follow the story and back up social media profiles, videos, etc. Live streamed to Facebook. Relevant music playlist included. An arguably better written manifesto than the competition. Topical references and memes, dripping with sarcasm. Now the shooter is still alive and is still playing to the cameras, smirking at reporters and more [thedailybeast.com].
The shooting could be difficult to repeat in New Zealand. If you don't have the guns in advance, you might not be able to get them so easily anymore. But the U.S. is ready for this caliber of shooter. One main difference we might see is a much more proactive policing of live streams. The social media giants will want to shut down streams before 10+ minutes of killing can occur, and make it harder to preserve the footage. I haven't done any live streaming but I expect people have problems with flaky connections. So maybe you need a camera capable of reliably connecting and streaming to two or more different services at the same time.
Maybe that isn't enough. Google and Facebook could run near-real-time machine learning algorithms on a low bitrate version of a stream's audio in order to detect gunshots, slurs, screams, etc. More obscure, illcit (and Russian) streaming services will have to be used instead.
Anyway, you could see effective gun control in New Zealand, but not in the U.S. at this time. So the shooter's call to arms is much more relevant in the U.S.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 17 2019, @08:32PM
it's so they can lie and misrepresent the shooter's motives and other facts about the incident unencumbered by the truth. kill them next time instead. they're the ones who invited these poor fucks into the country.
(Score: 4, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Sunday March 17 2019, @11:58PM (13 children)
I have read a pretty good sampling of the comments on this article, and one thing that jumps out at me is that you guys have no fucking clue who we are and what we want.
Lots of you go on about how censorship leads to people's rights being eroded and whatthefuckever, but that's only true if you live in the United States with your awful, corrupt, exploitative, violent
system of oppressiongovernment.You can all just go right ahead and assume that you know absolutely nothing about us, and the fact we almost share a language actually means that you know less about us than you think.
We have just had 50 of our people murdered. Here's a nice comparison for you: that's the same as 3,550 people killed in the one fire-fight in America.
They were not just Muslims, they were cricket coaches, aircraft engineers, soccer goalies, fathers, mothers and lots of other things, and they were my neighbours.
You can all go and get fucked if you feel you can comment on what is best for New Zealand. You obviously know fucking nothing.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday March 18 2019, @12:59AM (6 children)
I just wanted to personally say thank you for your perspective. If you would like to share more thoughts about how this might fit into New Zealand's legal framework and why this is not as problematic as some in the U.S. here may think, I would encourage you to do so.
I know folks here tend to be rather absolutist about some issues, but it really helps to have perspectives from someone who is actually familiar with the specific country.
On the other hand, I do think everyone has a right to an opinion. It's likely some here are very uninformed. Again, I am grateful for your sharing any local insight.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday March 18 2019, @01:22AM
Ya think? But I concur in your thanks to PartTimeZombie. Americans should be silent about this. Not like they do not have enough mindless mass murderers of their own to worry about.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday March 18 2019, @01:40AM (4 children)
I know my comment is an unfocussed rant, and not that useful, but seriously, we already have censorship, and it works pretty well and we happen to think it's a reasonable system.
Do your own research about how it works, but be assured it is responsive to the views of the general public, just like government at all levels of New Zealand.
Do you know what I said to the Prime Minister the last time I saw her at the St. Lukes mall?
I said "gidday Jacinda" and she asked me how I was. Her protection guys looked at me from 10 metres away and assessed the risk as zero. We all carried on with our day.
That's what New Zealand is like, OK?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday March 18 2019, @01:45AM (1 child)
#NotAnymore ?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday March 18 2019, @01:52AM
I bloody hope not. The cops are carrying guns right now, but won't be in a few weeks hopefully.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday March 18 2019, @01:56AM (1 child)
Again, thanks. I'm out of mod points for the day, but I wish you and your neighbors well during this time. Not all of us in the U.S. are so eager to impose our views on others.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday March 18 2019, @02:09AM
I have never met a yank IRL that I din't like. Even the surf bum from California I met in Gisbourne in 1985 or so who smoked all my pot and drank all my beer was a great bloke.
He knew a million dirty jokes.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @01:31AM (4 children)
You had a nutjob, strangely wanting to cause a gun control reaction in the USA, kill a bunch of people at a mosque that has repeatedly been caught encouraging violent jihad.
So now you want collective punishment. You want innocent people in New Zealand to lose their rights. WTF!!!
You are suffering from Stockholm syndrome when you empathize with invaders who believe that their god commands them to kill you. Individual muslims can be nice, especially when they know they are greatly outnumbered and do not yet control society. This takes advantage of your weakness.
Aside from violence, what is your plan to ensure that the muslims do not form an exponentially increasing portion of your population? What will keep New Zealand from being like ISIS territory in 50 or 100 years? Will you wake up when it is too late, as it is for the Coptic Christians in Egypt or the Buddhists in Afghanistan or the Zoroastrians in Iran or the Hindus in Pakistan?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Monday March 18 2019, @01:35AM (3 children)
That's exactly what I wrote about, you ignorant cunt.
You know nothing about us, fuck off.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @06:34AM (2 children)
You are clearly still in denial of reality. It must be nice not knowing that your culture is being wiped from the Earth.
When you wake up, it will be too late.
Well, I can teach, but I can't make you learn.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @09:47AM (1 child)
Actually, the extinction of Islamophobes would not be such a bad thing. At least they could stop being so afraid all the time, and the rest of us would not have to worry about one of them "going off", or "going in". So I am completely in favor of the liquidation of the Islamophobes. A kind of "Fickle Solution", maybe with camps that could have nice signs, "Arbeitbart non Macht alt-rectum Frei". Something like that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 19 2019, @04:29AM
going by the islamic definition of the term you just called for the eradication of all kafir which is 5/6 of the population of the planet
well done!
muslims don't call for this they just want to be paid
"The Christians and Jews do not follow the religion of truth until they submit and pay the poll tax [jizya] and they are humiliated."
ref: https://www.politicalislam.com/sharia-law-for-non-muslims-chapter-5-the-kafir/ [politicalislam.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 18 2019, @06:26AM
You said what I am too tired of saying because people just don't want to listen if it doesn't fit their agenda.
There is a lesson here for all of the conservatives, right or alt-right or even left - there is no "common struggle". There is no shared white identity, no shared Christian identity and no shared struggle. I really wish the American right became more American and less pre-civil war. It would bring them more success and help the rest of the world too.