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Daily Marijuana Use And Highly Potent Weed Linked To Psychosis
Weed use is taking off as more states move to legalize it. And with all the buzz over medical marijuana, it's starting to gain an aura of healthfulness. But there are some serious health risks associated with frequent use. One of the more troubling ones is the risk of having a psychotic episode.
Several past studies have found that more frequent use of pot is associated with a higher risk of psychosis, that is, when someone loses touch with reality. Now a new study published Tuesday [open, DOI: 10.1016/S2215-0366(19)30048-3] [DX] in the The Lancet Psychiatry shows that consuming pot on a daily basis and especially using high potency cannabis increases the odds of having a psychotic episode later.
[...] The study also shows that three European cities — London, Paris and Amsterdam — where high potency weed is most commonly available actually have higher rates of new cases of psychosis than the other cities in the study. [...] The researchers identified 901 people aged 18 to 64 who were diagnosed with their first episode of psychosis between May 2010 and April 2015, at a mental health facility anywhere in 11 cities, including London, Paris, Amsterdam, Barcelona, other cities across Europe, and one site in Brazil.
The researchers then asked these individuals and a control group of 1,200-plus other healthy people about their habits, including their use of weed. "We asked people if they used cannabis, when did they start using it and what kind of cannabis," explains study author Marta Di Forti, a psychiatrist and clinician scientist at King's College London. People reported the names of weed strains they used, like skunk in the U.K., or the Dutch Nederwiet, which allowed the researchers to identify the THC content in each product through data gathered by the European Monitoring Center for Drugs and Drug Addiction and national data from the different countries.
The study found that those who used pot daily were three times more likely to have a psychotic episode compared to someone who never used the drug.
Related: Media Leaps to Questionable Conclusions from Study on the Effects of Marijuana on the Brain
Marijuana - Both Sides of the Story
Study Finds That Legalized Medical Cannabis Led to a Decline in Medicare Prescriptions
New Attorney General Claims Legal Weed Drives Violent Crime; Statistics be Damned
World Health Organization Clashes With DEA on CBD; CBD May be an Effective Treatment for Psychosis
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @04:42PM (16 children)
What if unstable people prone to psychotic breaks are drawn to self-medicate with cannabis?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:18PM (9 children)
That said, the results are certainly interesting. I wonder how that correlation compares to the one with prescription "anti-psychotics."
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by ikanreed on Wednesday March 20 2019, @09:11PM (8 children)
"Of course not" he said without bothering to read the methodological approaches the study actually made to attempt* to control for that. After all his ideological perspective was that all demonization of previously illegal drugs had to come from a totally irrational perspective. No way it could be justifiable to be legal with side effects continuing to exist.
For reference, here's the things they did to specifically try to limit the extent to which that could be true
1. Patients were excluded if they had been previously treated for psychosis or if they met criteria for organic psychosis (F09) or for psychotic symptoms resulting from acute intoxication (F1X.5).
2. We used complete case analyses for all analyses using Stata version 14. We used inverse probability weights to account for any oversampling of controls relative to the populations at risk (appendix); we gave each control's data a weight inversely proportional to their probability of selection given their key demographics (age, gender, and ethnicity) using census data on relevant populations. These weights were applied in all analyses.
3. Stimulants, hallucinogens, ketamine, and novel psychoactive substances (so-called legal highs; never tried vs ever tried); and mean number of alcoholic drinks consumed daily on an average week. All sociodemographic and drug-use variables associated with case-control status were controlled for in all analyses
4. The STATA punafcc command was used to calculate the population attributable fraction (PAF) with 95% CIs for the two cannabis use measures that carried the largest adjusted OR for psychosis. The PAF measures the population effect of an exposure by providing an estimate of the proportion of disorder that would be prevented if the exposure were removed, assuming causality.
5. Find a dose-response curve
Now, because this was epidemological, not experimental in design, none of that excludes the possibility that there are recurrent trends of self medication that
A. Don't result in any diagnosis
B. Smoothly cross demographic boundaries
C. Only correlate to pot self-medication, but not other drugs, including common ones like alcohol and cigarettes
and
D. Increase their own self medication levels to deal with the increased symptoms
But, don't you want to take 10 minutes to maybe read the study methodology, and decide whether a possible 500% increase (relative risk) in psychotic events is worth examining in further detail before announcing your conclusions?
Maybe?
Just possibly consider the analysis in a little detail?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 20 2019, @09:33PM (6 children)
Saying that they controlled for that doesn't mean they actually did.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Wednesday March 20 2019, @09:42PM (5 children)
Thank you for your giant working brain.
The ability to see past all the relevant details, context, and analysis, whisk right through that muddy difficulty to arrive at the perfect, clear, big-picture conclusion of what you believed already. We could be in the muddy weeds of "well, this methodological approach can hide this phenomenon by this poorly understood mechanism" or god help us complimentary and contradictory studies. But thanks to you, we can arrive at the glorious truth of "restate premise without context".
Where would we all be without your stunning insight. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 20 2019, @09:52PM (4 children)
If they're present, that is and working as advertised. I notice that there's a lot of handwaving in your post for its supposed scienciness.
What you could have instead wrote was "Here's how they said they addressed that issue..." It indicates to me that you didn't read the research you claim to know something about.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Wednesday March 20 2019, @11:23PM (3 children)
My post literally contained 5 relevant direct excerpts, what the fuck is wrong with you?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 21 2019, @12:23AM
> ...what the fuck is wrong with you?
his nick is khallow, being wrong (and annoying to boot) comes with the territory.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday March 21 2019, @04:15AM
Only two of which were relevant to Arik's argument. Point 1 was a tangential matter, excluding two classes for reasons which were irrelevant to the discussion of self-medication. Points 2 was merely a procedural issue. Point 3 filtered out the effects of other potential drugs (including alcohol) that might affect the study, but not the effects of self-medication.
Point 4 and 5 combined is a frequentist approach to the problem. It might work correctly, or not. Just saying it's been done doesn't actually tell us whether there are biases or other procedural issues in the study confounding that result. We do know that similar frequentist studies can result in erroneous outcomes and they're not terribly good at determining causality. Notice the use of the term "assuming causality" in point 4. Finally, none of the stuff mentioned actually determines causality. So of your five "relevant direct excerpts, three were not, and the remaining two could be misapplied to get causality in the wrong direction.
I think an interesting question would be asking the marijuana user with psychotic symptoms questions connecting the two, such as whether they use marijuana deliberately to reduce the effects of the psychotic symptoms, and whether use of marijuana helps, in their opinion, with symptoms. In other words, it won't catch someone unconsciously coping with psychosis through marijuana use, but it will catch those who are intentionally doing so and provide something of a sanity check for the research. It is apparently not a rare belief that marijuana can help with psychological issues.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday March 22 2019, @11:53AM
A better question would have been: "how often do you smoke high THC cannabis?".
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday March 21 2019, @08:25AM
A. Don't result in any diagnosis
B. Smoothly cross demographic boundaries
C. Only correlate to pot self-medication, but not other drugs, including common ones like alcohol and cigarettes
and
D. Increase their own self medication levels to deal with the increased symptoms
But, don't you want to take 10 minutes to maybe read the study methodology"
I doubt it took a whole ten minutes, I did it prior to posting, and I saw exactly what I quoted from you above.
Got anything to add?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:50PM
Then they should smoke a pot joint which often have low THC (tetrahydrocannibinol) and high CBD (cannabidiol).
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:51PM
Another possible problem in the data, perhaps only the crazy people admit to illegal activity while those who aren't keep it quiet. That would reduce the number of people who say they use pot but don't have a psychotic episode and that would make that "3x as many" bunk (example with liars: 10 non-psychotics admit to using pot, 30 psychotics admit to using pot: 3x; reality: 30 non-psychotics admit to pot, 30 psychotics admit: 1:1).
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday March 20 2019, @06:01PM
Three times WHAT?
What is the risk of a psychotic episode if you don't use pot? (and don't post on SN)
Is three times a low risk is still a low risk?
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 3, Informative) by ants_in_pants on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:55PM (1 child)
Intense paranoia, disorientation, and panic attacks are a known potential effect of high doses of THC. I've experienced it myself, actually THC does this much more often than LSD or "harder" drugs. It's not hard to see why someone predisposed to psychosis might be triggered by it.
-Love, ants_in_pants
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 21 2019, @12:27AM
Hell, I'm hypersensitive to caffeine. First time I had two little tiny cups of espresso, the world got all wiggly, had to stop driving for a half hour to wait out the hallucinations. Now I know that one cup every couple of hours is my limit!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @08:49PM
I mean, there's alcohol-induced psychosis. So, even if this is true, a much worse - and completely legal - drug can have the same effect.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @04:46PM
Dude, really? "Higher Rates of Psychosis"? That's crazy ... wait ... maybe they got to close to the test subjects and their contact high made them imagine these results?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:02PM (13 children)
This is nothing more than the usual prohibitionist drivel. Cannabis had the opposite effect for me. Before I started using it, I was losing touch with reality. At one point I was cutting myself, and a year or so later I was in the emergency room with severe hyponatremia after nearly drinking myself to death.
Then I got high. Now I'm taking conscious steps to improve my life while smoking almost daily. For this sample size of 1, my life has immensely improved, including my mental health. I may still have moments when I am irrational, but now I feel that I can overcome it. Cannabis isn't a panacea, but fuck this reefer madness shit.
Why don't you do some double-blind longitudinal studies instead of this NHST crap? Why don't you work on improving access to mental health care instead of taking away a natural remedy for PTSD and crippling anxiety?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:04PM (5 children)
What strain of cannabis were you using? What was the THC and CBD %?
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(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:13PM
Chill, bro. I'll ask the pizza guy when he shows up. You ordered extra pineapple, right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:35PM
I started improving with Azura Haze which my lab sheet shows is at 20.2% THC, 0.02% CBD, and 0.1% CBN. My supplier stopping carrying that one, so I switched to White Widow at 26.1% THC, 0.07% CBD, and 0.1% CBN. (Protip: if you have a plant you like, clone it.)
My first attempt was with a medical strain, but I forget which one. Was also one of those autoflowering ones (crossed with c. ruderalis), which tend to be weaksauce. iirc about 15% THC and 10% CBD or thereabouts. It didn't really help, but I'm not a cancer patient either. My hypothesis is that different strains will help with different conditions. My specific mental illness seems to be alleviated by THC, not CBD as one might think.
A lot of times when I smoke, it's like I'm able to hook a debugger up to my brain, get stack traces and set watches/breakpoints and all the usual stuff one does with a debugger. So THC is one tool in my toolbox (alongside talk therapy, which was never effective for me without THC), yet it's objectively a crucial tool in my case.
The biggest thing is that when I'm high, I begin to think in objective terms instead of subjective.
SSRIs have proven ineffective as well. Also I think just growing the plants is therapeutic itself (yet THC is the crucial factor for me, because growing that autoflowering strain was not effective itself). Still wouldn't say I have a green thumb (it's a weed after all), but it feels good to grow and nurture something with my own hands.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @06:46PM (2 children)
I use extremely high TCH cannabis oil to treat cancer, specifically colon cancer in my lungs. 3 years ago I was given 2-6 months to live max, with 2 being the more likely scenario. I quite chemo and went on Rick Simpson Oil (see phoenixtears.ca or Rick Simpson's FB page for more info). For 6 months I was off work, stoned out of my guard 20+ hours/day taking 1000 ml of RSO daily, and have been on a (smaller) maintenance dose ever since. I didn't expect it to work, but I did expect to die fairly quickly in far less pain than if I continued chemo. Instead, 6 months and 160 or so grams of RSO later I was in complete remission and returned to work, and have been productively working ever since.
I hate being high--I find it miserable, and while you're high you are arguably divorced from reality (just like someone blindingly drunk would be), but never was I anywhere near having a psychotic episode, nor have I ever been. It's a challenge to cope with, but compared to chemo, the after-effects of losing a chunk of your colon, rectum, liver, and lungs, it's a fucking cakewalk.
This is a ridiculous, manufactured result with a cherry-picked and highly-skewed sample base, designed to reach a particular solution. It is no coincidence that the FDA almost never allows marijuana studies designed to see if it has any benefits, but will throw their weight (and money) behind studies designed to reach these kinds of highly-questionable conclusion.
Cannabis saved my life, and continues to save my life. Should these evil pricks ever get their way and take it away from us, I will probably be dead within months.
Which I suspect suits their plans just fine. It's become quite clear than the American Plutocrats want everyone else to work for them for all of their lives, and the moment we are no longer productive in making them richer they'd like nothing more than for us to either (1) have become rich enough to be self-sustaining through retirement, including paying ever increasing medical costs, or (2) go away and die. (2) is probably preferable, as (1) implies we've managed to earn money they would like to have in their pockets instead.
Either way, their drive to cut and eventually eliminate Social Security and Medicare clearly points to an agenda along these lines. And their attitudes toward the poor and impoverished are even worse. Just wait until automation kicks in...it is not that far fetched that at that point they wouldn't mind depopulating the world of all the non-extremely-wealthy so they can have it all for themselves. Whether or not that's their actual intention or attitude (I believe it is, based on their policies, actions, and reading between the lines of their rhetoric), it is clearly in keeping with what they are doing to the rest of us. Marijuana prohibition is almost just a footnote, albeit a deadly one for those of us keeping our cancer at bay with RSO.
(Now queue the right-wing apologists accusing me of being "psychotic" for having suggested such a thing about their uber-rich heroes, whom they worship with far more fervor than they do their invisible friend in the sky in whose name they justify this crap. When the emprorer is naked, they sure don't like anyone pointing out the lack of clothing.)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 20 2019, @06:58PM
Uhhh, hold up a bit, please? Did you make a typo up there? Colon cancer in your lungs? I breezed past that, then a nice cruel joke started forming in my mind, so I had to look back. Fek - lemme try a search engine, see if I find something meaningful . . .
OK, minus the cruelty, it's still a pretty shitty situation. Sounds like you're talking about something like this: https://www.froedtert.com/colorectal-cancer/metastic-disease/lung-metastasis [froedtert.com]
Yeah, I realize it's just some doctor's advert, but it was the first hit I found that conveyed anything meaningful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 21 2019, @12:41AM
Thanks for an interesting rant. One of my best friends was given 6 weeks to live after diagnosis with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, in his early 70s. Medical marijuana kept him going for over a year, and relatively pain free until the very end. Bonus was that he was able to see his first grandchild born.
> it is not that far fetched that at that point they wouldn't mind depopulating the world of all the non-extremely-wealthy so they can have it all for themselves.
I'm not that kind of wealthy, but I do enjoy living near one of the rust belt cities that lost a lot of population back in the 1970s. Around here, a traffic jam might be a 10 minute inconvenience. A lot of local infrastructure is sized for higher population, it's not cramped, real estate is reasonably priced. It's all low stress, people (even other drivers) are mostly friendly and helpful.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Wednesday March 20 2019, @06:16PM
Cutting yourself sounds more like depression than psychosis (unless you were doing it for fun, or to try to find the CIA implants).
I found occasional cannabis use did wonders for my own drug-and-counselling-resistant depression. It wasn't that I had lost touch with reality, rather I lost touch with the joy of living, and cannabis helped me find it again.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hendrikboom on Wednesday March 20 2019, @08:14PM
As with many drugs, effective for the maladies they cure, and dangerous for others.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday March 20 2019, @09:20PM
"What? And remove some of our revenue sources?!? Are you insane???" - The Pharma Industrial Complex
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @11:10PM (2 children)
> I may still have moments when I am irrational, but now I feel that I can overcome it.
No, it just makes you believe you can overcome it. You clearly have a polysubstance abuse disorder. Get some real help.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 21 2019, @03:14AM (1 child)
Great Scott! A time traveling substance abuse disorder!
So, when I had these same symptoms growing up in a sweetly abusive family (sorta Calvinist but not) and even after escaping them, it was caused by my future use of cannabis. Do you propose BTTF/ST/Journeyman temporal mechanics or John Titor/Terminator temporal mechanics? It's important to know which so we can break the stable time loop and end the predestination paradox.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday March 21 2019, @04:16AM
Journeyman might require its own category. If you had a jumpsuit at the ready you seemed to be OK (RIP Pegasus Device). Plus they had that historical log 200 million years in the past. Probably doesn't make any damn sense if you delve into it.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 21 2019, @11:36AM
Not only do I agree with you, but uh I thought it was known for years and year and years that strong THC, be it cultivated or chemical, could, in some people, cause or contribute to psychosis. in fact... one can nearly predict who, but at least at the time i thought this was common, only predict people who had various neurological issues that can be agitated to cause psychosis for a time.
often those same people are self medicating with marijuana, whether or not they undertand how much THC is in it.
i never read anything about CBDs causing psychosis. it could be that CBD sensitive people are less likely to suffer psychosis caused by marijuana as compared to THC sensitive people using marijuana of similar strength.
but reefer madness never really looked at why. just correlations--smoking roadside reefer means that your daughter ends up dating a homeless man of a different ethnic group who wants to sell her into slavery to pay for weights he will use to get stronger to better look menacing in his life of crime so he can afford to become a dealer. then your daughter ends up with mixed race babies that you are forced to take care of at your survivalist compound before the feds nab you because of your soverign belief system and lack of tax payments.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:04PM (2 children)
the US led the world in scare tactics. thanks anslinger and nixon (may you both suffer endlessly, if there is such a thing as an afterlife).
the rest of the world was forced to take a 'zero tolerance' stance.
now that we programmed the world with our paranoia, we are reversing directions.
the world needs to catch up.
some orgs are not happy about this change. they will fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo.
this 'report' is such a thing; serves to try to put horses back into the barn once they have all left. good luck with THAT.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:53PM (1 child)
We both know what you mean, but let me make a couple observations, and you may or may not decide on a different analogy.
Depending on your latitude, the season, and the weather, not to mention the time of day, it can be exceedingly easy to get the horses back in the barn. January, around Pittsburgh, Pa, all a kid had to do was open the barn door after school, and all the horses came trooping in, happy to get out of the cold, into a warm stall, where there was a scoop of grain, and hay waiting for them. Midsummer? Not so much.
You probably figured as much - I didn't really need to point that out. But, it applies here, as well. If the US and/or half a dozen key governments decide that "Ohhhh, that cannabis really IS EVIL!!" then all sorts of situations from your analogy come into play. If governments decide to go full retard on cannabis again, all the funding against it goes back into full play - and all those dependent governments want to come back into the stable after that grain and hay. It gets COLD out there at night, in the middle of winter! To sweeten the deal, for many governments, our own government could start pushing various alcoholic beverages that are exported by those dependent governments. We might even lower the drinking age, and raise the drunk driving BAC. Crazier shit has happened.
We do have enough batshit crazy politicians, they might even suggest that people are better off being addicted to opiates, than cannabis. All the recriminations over our current opiate crisis could be overturned in a single congress, along with all the progress on cannabis.
Never underestimate the power of idiocy backed by greed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 21 2019, @03:34AM
(Score: 1) by YeaWhatevs on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:22PM (1 child)
I just came for that, thanks.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:28PM
It's not about the reefer, it's about the "coloreds". Who wants their daughters catting around with a bunch of jazz musicians?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:28PM (15 children)
As I told all my nephews and nieces as they got to be teenagers:
As for psychosis from the use of cannabis or other substances, yes it happens. In my experience it's pretty rare with cannabis, although some folks experience paranoia if they use more than they expected/normally do/try it for the first time/etc. However, that's generally temporary, lasting only until someone can talk you down or the effects wear off.
Those with mental illness often self-medicate with cannabis, especially given that most anti-psychotic drugs leave people *not* feeling anything, which can be quite distressing to many.
A couple of simple rules:
1. If [substance] has a negative effect, don't use it;
2. If [substance] causes significant issues, go to an urgent-care facility or emergency room;
3. If you suffer from mental illness, self-medicating (whether it be with cannabis or something else) is a very bad idea.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:38PM (9 children)
I experience paranoia when speeding through a small backwoods town, particularly in rural Louisiana - that's not a drug induced effect, and just because they are using drugs doesn't mean the drug is causing the paranoia.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:50PM (8 children)
I've been using cannabis and interacting with folks using cannabis since 1975. Some people experience paranoia when using cannabis. I've seen it happen. Some people fall asleep when using cannabis. I've seen it happen. Some people just enjoy it. I've seen it happen. Some people don't have negative effects, but don't like how cannabis makes them feel. I've seen it happen.
So, yes. Drugs are not the *only* cause of paranoia, or necessarily the proximate cause when using drugs, but they can and do cause paranoia in some people at certain times. I've seen it happen.
Unless you can show me actual data that says the above is wrong, I'm going with my decades-worth of anecdotal evidence.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:59PM (1 child)
yep. weed keeps me up, while most people get sleepy.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:04PM
That one can be verified in any group of truck drivers. Where I used coffee and cigarettes, other truckers said they use grass for the same effect. Knowing that will scare the shit out of some people, I suppose. But, grass is probably safer than most other drugs that truckers have been known to use.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:05PM
It definitely depends on the strain for me - I get paranoid when coming down off of indicas and higher-CB* hybrids, while sativas (which means generally high THC:CB* ratio) don't have as many of those effects. I never get the munchies though.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:47PM
I don't smoke myself, but I've been around people high on pot quite a bit. I've also been around drunk people. Of the two, I'd much rather deal with the potheads.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 20 2019, @08:26PM (3 children)
What percentage of the time during your gathering of anecdotal evidence did the mere possession of pot constitute a crime which could result in all kinds of civil penalties, loss of employment/employability, etc. particularly for your paranoid test subjects?
People get a major rush from shoplifting, some even find it addictive - not for the stuff they get for free, but for the pure dopamine push. I think that a lot of people who drink do it for that "f-you, I can drink and I will drink, I'm not a kid who's forbidden to do this anymore" mental aspect as much as anything else.
Do I have any personal anecdotal evidence re: cannabis physiological reactions? To quote a line from Romancing the Stone: "sure, I went to college." And, my anecdotal evidence more or less matches your own, however, I also had a cocaine dealer on my dorm room floor, and around him I saw plenty of pre-drug-use-paranoia going around for all kinds of drugs and about to be drug users, actually much more than after the drugs had been smoked, snorted, etc. Hooking up with the dealer is another one of those "naughty highs" like shoplifting.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 20 2019, @09:13PM (2 children)
I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
So I'm just going to back away slowly...
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday March 21 2019, @12:11PM (1 child)
Not so much comprehension as blind faith acceptance of other people's observations as truth. I accept that they are your truth, comprehend why they are your truth, but do not accept them as my own truth.
Back away slowly if you must, all those drugs probably made you paranoid, right?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday March 21 2019, @01:35PM
Nope. It's definitely your reading comprehension.
You said:
And I replied:
If you have some *actual evidence* that drug use by itself *never* causes paranoia, I'd love to hear it. Where was such a study published? Is the data set available?
You may think that I need to provide details of every scenario where this has happened and detail how no external forces contributed to such paranoia. But this isn't a peer-reviewed paper, and you're not on a journal publishing committee.
That's fine. I don't have the need to convince some random jackass on the internet (in case you were confused, that's you). Carry on. I imagine you're a blast at parties:
Random partygoer: "I was on my way over here and saw an injury accident. It was awful."
You: "Are you sure it wasn't just some sort of EMT drill?"
Random partygoer: "Oh yeah, the driver of one of the cars had their brains spattered all over the street. Must not have been wearing a seat belt."
You: "Those weren't brains, and no one was injured. It was just an EMT drill."
Random partygoer: "No. I saw it. Really."
You: "That's your truth, not mine. And I won't accept it. Why are you trying to spread misinformation?"
I'm not really concerned one way or another what you (or anyone else for that matter) think or believe about me or anyone else. Nor am I afraid when driving down back roads. In fact, the only thing I'm really afraid of (and the combination of gravity and the Electromagnetic force makes the risk quite real, so no paranoia there) is heights.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:46PM (1 child)
While we don't know the time scale, Dolphins like to get high too: https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/dolphins-deliberately-get-high-on-puffer-fish-nerve-toxins-by-carefully-chewing-and-passing-them-9030126.html [independent.co.uk]
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:58PM
Flipper [wikipedia.org] better stay the hell out of my puffer fish stash!
Don't test me on this!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @06:37PM (1 child)
Years ago I read a similar study to this one. The headlines and articles all claimed that cannabis increased rates of schizophrenia. The study actually showed that those who were already prone to schizophrenia were more likely to have a precipitating event, but data from other studies showed the same for drugs/alcohol in general.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:07PM
Actually, it makes sense. Take any person who is not especially stable, and give him some mind altering or mood altering substance. Yeah, he's more likely than a stable person to have a nutty experience.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:33PM
Sometimes this helps, man [youtube.com]
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Interesting) by opinionated_science on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:35PM
the THC molecule has a much higher affinity than the CBD molecule to the CB1 receptor. CBD that acts as an allosteric modulator for THC.
The breeding of high-THC fraction plants (for profit of course..), is the cause of this and was suspected sometime ago.
This the "war on drugs" coming home to roost....
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:36PM
It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @05:40PM
That's ... just ... like ... your Opinion, man.
It ain't the doobies, it's Walter, the fucking moron.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Barenflimski on Wednesday March 20 2019, @06:02PM
We started off with Mexican ditch weed. We demonized that. It was made illegal. Once it was illegal, it made a whole lot more sense for people to traffic in the highest potency stuff. Higher potency, same fines per pound meant the same pound could reach even more people. Until weed was legalized the strength of weed only got stronger. Only since it has been regulated can one find marijuana that isn't as strong as possible in dispensaries. Now they even grow and sell some weed that has little or no THC, and sometimes even CBD only strains. People haven't stopped smoking marijuana because of the potency.
We started off with people taking handfuls of opiate pills from their doctor. We cracked down on that source extremely efficiently and made it almost impossible for those same people to get their pills. Enter the black market. Because Fentanyl is cheaper and can be transported as grains of sand per dose, it is now the biggest driver of Opiate deaths. People haven't stopped taking opiates because of the potency.
Drug laws are not saving anyone from themselves. Drug laws only succeed in creating an empty space for people to get lost and even die in. Drug laws are not saving the economy. Drug laws are not stopping thefts and muggings. Every time these zero tolerance laws are applied it makes the lives of regular folks more dangerous. People using drugs is not some sort of outlying case. The majority of people use some sort of drug or another.
All these laws have accomplished is creating market pressure for more and more potent drugs. It would be positive if the policies didn't kill them or send them into a state of psychosis.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:00PM
I used a lot of weed for 2 years after detoxing from Rx fentanyl. There's a learning curve for using weed medicinally. I found the one that had a good balance of pain relief and sleep problems, but soon found that paranoia and other weird stuff was happening. I got a variety and switched daily, no more problems and better results.
(Score: 4, Informative) by ElizabethGreene on Wednesday March 20 2019, @07:56PM (3 children)
Unfortunately Marijuana research has a long history of finding politically desirable results. It will take a great deal more than a self reporting n=2138 study to get me to reconsider my position that it should be legalized.
(Score: 2) by pipedwho on Wednesday March 20 2019, @10:54PM
Don't worry in other news: Study Links Psychosis to Higher Rates of Daily High-THC Cannabis Use
No matter much they think they controlled for it, there is always an element linking truthfully self reporting illegal drug use with the sort of person that takes a drug in the first place and ignores 'reality' (ie. in this case the harsh hand of the law or societal blow back).
Especially considering:
How they define and test for 'psychosis' is problematic. Half the people practicing yoga might be defined as 'psychotic' in some way within a range of certain criteria. The definition hinges on what 'reality' actually is. There is objective physical reality, and then there's subjective reality. The way different people view the world is clearly subjective when you look at the range of attitudes from positive to negative of people in otherwise identical situations. And 'psychosis' is by definition about they way people view the world.
A consumerist society has been deluded into thinking owning/wanting more is a good thing. And that 'reality' is all about what you have and do, or what people have and do around you.
Reality is actually about how you see the world. That doesn't negate the objective physical aspects of the world, but it does change your perceptions and reactions to the physical and social 'reality' surrounding you. And someone that is a regular consumer of certain psychotropic drugs will report this sort of thing. Harder drugs are the proverbial what goes up must come down, and the higher you go, the harder you fall. Whereas, something considered 'lighter' like THC may have some latent effects that last much longer - ie. the psychological 'rebound' (either positive or negative) hasn't dropped off completely even though the chemical has at the time the self-reporter is being tested for their so-called 'psychosis'.
The basis of religious spirituality hinges on the introspection of 'what is truth/reality/unreality/etc'.
Basically, reading into the details of this study shows it as politically motivated bunkum.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 21 2019, @11:39AM
dude where are the bikini women smoking pot? i want to help understand their psychosis better.
hey mr reagan didn't you suffer brain damage during the last 6 years of your office? were you... on bikini island?
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday March 22 2019, @01:57PM
Maybe he was trying to keep up with Nixon?
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