SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
[Ed. Note: Behind the invective and political slant in this story is a subject that I think could lead to a fruitful discussion. "The price of liberty is constant vigilance." SoylentNews is a little corner of the 'net that tries to provide a venue for open discussion. Are our days numbered or threatened? What can be done? Just keep doing what we are doing?]
France has turned into one of the worldwide threats to free speech
Just over one year ago, French President Emmanuel Macron came to the United States to import two potentially invasive species to Washington. One was a tree and the other was a crackdown on free speech. Ironically, soon after the tree was planted, officials dug it up to send it to quarantine. However, the more dangerous species was his acorn of speech controls, a proposal that resulted in rapturous applause from our clueless politicians.
While our politicians in the United States may applaud Macron like village idiots, most Americans are hardcore believers in free speech. It runs in our blood. Undeterred, however, Macron and others in Europe are moving to unilaterally impose speech controls on the internet with new legislation in France and Germany. If you believe this is a European issue, think again.
Macron and his government are attempting to unilaterally scrub out the internet of hateful thoughts. The French Parliament has moved toward a new law that would give internet companies like Facebook and Google just 24 hours to remove hateful speech from their sites or face fines of $1.4 million per violation. A final vote is expected next week. Germany passed a similar measure last year and imposed fines of $56 million.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ilsa on Wednesday July 10 2019, @09:24PM (18 children)
I know everyone is going, "Yeah! Free speech! Rah rah rah!", but here's one that people arn't talking about: With great power comes great responsibility.
There isn't one single right you can be granted where you can say "This right is unlimited!". Everything requires a balance.
A perfect example is on Slashdot right now talking about the DeepPorn takedown. People are screaming censorship, and how terrible Microsoft is for blocking open source. Everyone is going absolutely out of their way to ignore or outright deny that DeepPorn is a tool whose exclusive purpose is to sexually harass people. The commenters on slashdot feel that it is their right to undress any woman they want, and by extension, post those pictures on the internet.
It was disgusting and disturbing to the point where for the first time I am seriously considering outright closing my slashdot account and walking away. I was talking to a colleague about it, and she lamented how she has all but quit social media because she is too scared to use it. She's afraid of being doxxed, or getting flooded with rape/murder threats. I can't say I blame her. I've been pulling back myself, and am much happier for it. This is one of the few sites I still browse and comment on, because (with some notable exceptions), the calibre of people on this site are better than average.
The thing is, everyone seems to confuse what free speech actually means. It means you can criticize your gov't without fear of retaliation. It does NOT give you the right to doxx people. It doesn't NOT give you the right to take a bullhorn and start yelling out the importance of committing Swazili genocide in the middle of Times Square. (I made that up just now... I hope.) You are not allowed to scream "Fire!" in a theatre.
Yet for some reason people refuse to accept that yes, there are limits to what you can say. Everyone wants to believe they can say whatever you want without repercussions.
Because of this complete unwillingness to allow any kind of responsibility, what we have is an internet where the trolls have won. People care more about being outraged than intelligent debate. People who would be valuable additions to the internet community at large are walking away cause it's not worth the risk.
You don't get the right to free speech if you arn't willing to take responsibility for that speech. So now we are seeing the inevitable happening: Just like a 4 year old has their candy taken away from them because they refuse to control themselves, that right is being rightfully stripped away because we collectively don't deserve it.
(Score: 2, Troll) by takyon on Wednesday July 10 2019, @09:44PM (13 children)
Yes, that is a stupid takedown and it is censorship. If you don't want your photos or videos to be "deep-porned", you should avoid publishing images of yourself online. Making code marginally harder to find and install is going to do nothing to solve the "problem". I'm going to sub the story now, and we'll see how long you keep coming here.
Obviously, people should have been considering GitHub alternatives before that takedown. I'm surprised GitHub hasn't nuked all Kodi addons yet.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday July 10 2019, @10:12PM (5 children)
Careful how you thread there, tak, what you do is called "blame the victim".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday July 10 2019, @10:25PM (4 children)
If getting fake porn made of you is all it takes to be a "victim", pretty soon everyone will be a victim.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday July 10 2019, @11:00PM (1 child)
Keeping into account that taking pictures in public is something one cannot stop, you are right. I hope you'll enjoy the bodies your image will be grafted on and the activities depicted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday July 10 2019, @11:32PM
You assume that 1.) I go outside, and 2.) I'm not a bot hosted on GitLab.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 10 2019, @11:28PM (1 child)
If getting robbed is all it takes to be a "victim", pretty soon everyone will be a victim.
- yup, I've been robbed before and felt victimized, yet astonishingly I'm sill glad there are laws against theft
Free Speech Hysterics are no better than "think of the kids" hysterics. With my limited knowledge of the details here I won't make a proclamation, but takyon you are nuts to make that post with a straight face.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday July 10 2019, @11:30PM
Left unwritten: algorithms could pornify all incoming images AUTOMATICALLY.
Laws are not going to be very effective here. You don't even have to share the fake porn pics. Just share the software and the source images.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday July 10 2019, @10:20PM
Depending on the quality of the discussion, it will be the same for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 5, Informative) by quietus on Wednesday July 10 2019, @10:25PM (5 children)
There is principle, and there's defending a principle: if you're going to bludgeon a soylentil to death with your inescapable logic, please do it in a polite manner.
Your post was out of line -- adding "and we'll see how long you keep coming here." Not stylish, takyon. Not what we're used from you.
You might want to consider grabbing your old copy of the Good Soldier Svejk [wikipedia.org] and a decent bottle of whiskey.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by takyon on Wednesday July 10 2019, @10:35PM (4 children)
It was in reference to that. If you're about to walk away from Slashdot because commenters are opposing censorship at GitHub, you should expect a similar response here.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday July 10 2019, @11:24PM (3 children)
And you want to test the resolution of that person, right?
Because everything needs to be clear cut? Or were you just jesting and whoever cannot take it is a precious snowflake?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday July 10 2019, @11:51PM (2 children)
The story is going to go out at 01:53 UTC, and everyone will engage in a thoughtful and polite discussion.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday July 11 2019, @12:13AM
It better do.
Otherwise I might get the idea to take a trip over to voat and 'invite'** some characters there to join S/N.
You know? Just to raise the thoughtfulness level of the discourse here on S/N and make it easier for the soylenters to understand the alt-right ethos without being nagged by aristarchus.
---
** yes, I know I'm free to use it, but I find "goad" to be such an unpolite term
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday July 11 2019, @01:39AM
Prophecy, or delusion?
Meanwhile, in takyon's basement lair: the pictures are already out there! [engadget.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jmorris on Wednesday July 10 2019, @10:50PM (1 child)
Free speech has to be as close to unlimited as practical or there isn't a point to declaring it a value at all. If you aren't defending speech you find abhorrent, that you totally disagree with, you aren't defending free speech at all; You are just defending your side. So yes, Communists and Nazis both have to be able to speak right along with Americans quoting Madison and Jefferson. And even worse. Islamists, Scientology whacked out cults, all of it. Flat Earthers, Warmists, Scientism, all can enter the arena of ideas. Whether they survive free and open debate is another matter, all ideas are NOT equally true.
Deep Porn is toxic but forget trying to ban it. Far too late. And remember, any new technology is first used for porn before it becomes ubiquitous. It is actually those future uses of this deep learning crap that should be scaring the piss out of you. People have been drawing women with their cloths off almost as long as they have been undressing them in their mind, automating it is only a matter of speed and wider availability. Any attempt to ban Deep Porn will do more lasting damage to society than it will do. You are not required to like reality, only accept it.
Your last line though has a lot of Truth in it. Our Founding Fathers did say their government was only fit for a religious and moral people, that it would serve no other. We are now neither so we will soon be ruled. Hope we choose a good King.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 11 2019, @09:10AM
I disagree.
I'm not sure why deepporn got into this thread, deepporn is not free speech and doesn't resemble it at all. It is at least slander/libel and possibly some form of sexual assault.
So yes, I believe deepporn should be banned and I don't mind police and prosecutors spending time chasing the perpetrators responsible for creating unauthorized deepporn. There are a lot of pron actresses, hentai, ... out there already, if you really want someone specific to go naked and do dirty things. Well, why don't you try and hire them or convince them of that instead of making decisions in their stead? With this technology you can probably create any model you want, so why use real people that have things to lose from using their portret/images?
Just because it is hard to enforce/prosecute doesn't mean it should be legal.
I do mind if they want to force new laws that restrict my freedoms trying to prevent deepporn, and I do mind these proposed restrictions on free speech.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Thursday July 11 2019, @12:48AM
We shouldn't even be arguing over free speech rights. What is much more important is to develop a technology to circumvent all attempts at censorship, ad hoc, distributed mesh nets, whatever. Basically it means acquiring internet access without an ISP cop getting in the way. Then we don't have to care what the French or any other politicians want, or what GitHub removes. Let them flap their tongues all they want. Our job is route around the damage. Censorship is always damage. It is always more offensive than the content being censored.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday July 11 2019, @01:02AM
Just walk away, don't close the account. You don't want to have your username taken over by some troll.
Unfortunately the proportion of exceptions is increasing, and Soylent News is going the way of the green site. There are more mature places for intelligent conversation.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.