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Australian senators who are tired of people spending their own money using cash want to put a stop to it with an audacious plan to limit cash transactions to $10,000 with a penalty of jail time for anyone who oversteps. This may sound a bit harsh, but what they really want to crack down on is the so-called 'black market' of cash transactions and dodgy people like drug dealers who have wads of cash stacked away and of course criminals who buy houses with suitcases of bills and then sell the house a while later effectively cleaning the money.
The first iteration of the proposal received significant criticism as personal transactions, such as buying a car, would be caught in the net. The Australian government has been clear about its intention to move society to cashless payments which benefits the government in many ways. Already in place are systems to force house buyers to lodge monies for properties with an escrow service (PEXA) where their money can be stolen with no recourse and no way to avoid the system.
If passed, the law would come into effect on January 1, 2020 and would apply to all cash payments made to businesses with an ABN. The penalties, jail time and fine would apply to both the individual and the business part of the transaction.
There are a couple of exemptions to the cash ban.
- The $10,000 cash limit would not apply to individual-to-individual transactions, such as the private sale of a second-hand car.
- The limit also wouldn't apply when depositing or withdrawing money from a bank.
[...] Head of CPA Australia, Dr Gary Pflugrath, agreed there needed to be a crackdown on the black economy but said linking criminal activity to all large cash transactions was "a step too far".
"This legislation is attempting to deal with a symptom, not the cause, of the black economy. While the use of cash in a large transaction may be an indicator of risk, it does not prove by itself that the behaviour is criminal," Dr Pflugrath said.
"The presumption that only tax evaders, money launderers and criminals use cash, and the mindset that these new offences are required to address criminality, has resulted in a proposed bill and instrument that run counter to well-established criminal law principles and have the potential to affect many Australians.
"The focus on criminalising certain cash transactions is an extreme response to the problem of avoiding scrutiny."
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 25 2019, @04:41AM (6 children)
What is going to be done when it passes?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:33AM
Befriend your local drug dealer.
(Score: 3, Touché) by driverless on Sunday August 25 2019, @07:13AM (4 children)
Translation:
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @11:38AM (1 child)
I'm sure they'll be leveraging blockchain synergies along with wide open AWS containers running default MongoDB installs for the best security money can buy (as long as it's less than $10kmin cash).
(Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday August 25 2019, @11:41AM
And it'll be written in PHP, because Facebook uses that and so it's got to be good.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 25 2019, @02:47PM (1 child)
Ok, the government is going to do all these things. Anybody gonna try and stop 'em? Or do we accept our fate?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @03:41PM
One of the last remaining reasons that I cling to life is that I'm so curious as to what, in various countries, the last straw is going to end up being. What will finally be the step too far that brings out the torches and pitchforks?
Of course this issue won't bring the Aussies to revolt. But it's one step closer...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by MadTinfoilHatter on Sunday August 25 2019, @05:13AM (22 children)
Step 1. Cashless soceiety - all monetary transactions are strictly controlled.
Step 2. Centralized world government.
Step 3. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Not a fan of the cashless society - or any other government power grabs, which could lead to situations where judgement day turns out to be the best case scenario...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @05:17AM (1 child)
Step 0: Take away all the guns
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @05:34PM
not a troll, you dumb bitch. also, i'm not the op.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Sunday August 25 2019, @05:43AM (11 children)
It's not only the government that wants a cashless society, it's also the banks. If you cannot simply withdraw your money from the account and store it in cash, they can enforce negative interest on it. And, of course, fees for every payment you make.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:45AM
Considering that we will be at negative interest soon that is a real problem.
They are considering increasing the GST from 10% to 15% but that will cause such outrage and lack of confidence in the government and banking systems that by itself could result in a rush on the banks which Australia cannot handle right now
(Score: 3, Insightful) by qzm on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:46AM (2 children)
Exactly, they all want to be able to control everything you do.
Making sure they have oversight over every small aspect of your life is the reason for this, not 'drugs'
The criminals will all still keep working away, with little or no impact, because they will have a small herd of minions to split up the transactions.
The plumbers and builders and garages will still keep going cash jobs, because 10k is more than most jobs cost.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by canopic jug on Sunday August 25 2019, @11:02AM (1 child)
The plumbers and builders and garages will still keep going cash jobs, because 10k is more than most jobs cost.
That would be just for the near term. For now most jobs cost less than 10k. However, fines are rarely linked to inflation and in a few years 10k might seem a small and quaint sum.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by deimtee on Monday August 26 2019, @01:01AM
When the law has been in place for a while I would expect them to start ratcheting the value downwards. If you have to install the ability to do non-cash transactions it is not much of a hardship to lower the point at which transactions must be non-cash. They may claim it is for drugs, but really it is for GST collection.
Most single jobs you can get a tradie to do for cash yeah, but what are the odds they will add a 'structuring' type limit as well. Make three 4k deposits/withdrawals at the bank in a week and get a "please explain" from the taxman.
As an aside, Australian fines are almost always specified in law in terms of "penalty units". This way they only have to adjust one value and all the fines change. One penalty unit is currently AU$165.22 and the figure is adjusted "for inflation" quite regularly.
No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:59AM (2 children)
The banks are the drivers, don't blame the government; they're just following orders.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 25 2019, @02:57PM
Iceberg ahead! What's the plan, Stan?
I got one for starters. Everybody just needs to zero out their debts and quit borrowing money. That is guaranteed to get a reaction.
Then there that little thing about reelecting corrupt politicians.
Seems to me we could make a pretty good world if people actually wanted to...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Pav on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:14PM
Australian here... This is coming to the rest of the world soon... It's about driving all money into the banks so that interest rates can be driven strongly negative ie. what will become the "new normal". This is what the IMF is pushing, and places like India have already taken steps to implement this.
The world economy is on the verge of collapse, and the usual method of "fixing" this is encouraging new borrowing by lowering interest rates, but interest rates can't go far below zero normally. If they force most cash into banks this becomes possible. They can force peoples savings into the stock market, or else they get hit with negative interest rates and lose their money to the banks anyway.
This discussion [youtube.com] between two economists on this topic is very interesting. One who has spent time advising the current "Liberal Party" (ie. conservative... yes, we call our conservative government "liberal")...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @11:39AM
Negative interest, or whatever other hair brained scheme they dream up next.
The background here is that our financialised economy is dysfunctional, and the corrupt incompetents running it need ever more elaborate schemes to keep the plates spinning. The people who brought you CDOs, credit default swaps and austerity now want permeant root access to all cash and transactions in our society. Not because they are the Illuminati, bit because they will need to use your money to shore up theirs when their next screw up pops.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by gawdonblue on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:21PM (2 children)
It's what the IMF wants to make negative interest rates work - Australia's public broadcaster has a story on it - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-26/cash-ban-so-you-pay-the-bank-to-hold-your-money-what-imf-wants/11443646 [abc.net.au]
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday August 26 2019, @02:44AM (1 child)
Most of y'all are probably too young to remember this, but back when I was a kid, every kind of bank account cost you a certain amount per month, often significant. Naturally the bank's ideal was for everyone to have both savings and checking accounts...
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 26 2019, @06:06AM
There is absolutely nothing that prevents a bank from charging you a fee as is. This is totally different.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:21AM (1 child)
Step 3 is called "Australia Card ID" with Australia Post lining up to be the provider of choice spouting their MyPost honeypot along with collection of data while processing passports for being the trusted source for all Australian identity transactions.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:50AM
Australians blow on their long dark indigenous didgeridoos. They are masters of sucking cock.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @12:56PM
Australia is the testing lab for all dystopian orwellian things.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday August 25 2019, @05:49PM (4 children)
I don't know how many times I have to post this, and HERE of all websites...
"666" is code, Gematria specifically, and you need to know Hebrew or Koine for it to work. The passage you're referring to specifically says "Here is [esoteric] wisdom: let him who hath understanding reckon/sum the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and the number is six hundred threescore and six." In Gematria, that breaks down to "Neron Qaisar" more or less.
If you actually knew your Bible you wouldn't be spouting ignorant this like this. Sorry, but the end of the world isn't coming, you're not one of the saved who gets to avoid the Tribulation (unless you are one of 144,000 virgin Jewish males), and you won't be vindicated and get to laugh at that guy who bullied you in junior high getting tortured by scorpions.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 26 2019, @01:28AM
Thanks Captain Obvious, we can see that, it's happening anyway.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday August 26 2019, @02:25AM (2 children)
Some bible translations have the number 626 instead of 666. No doubt there's some interesting history there.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday August 26 2019, @04:40AM (1 child)
616, not 626, IIRC, and nothing very interesting: nun ("n") is valued at 50, so 616 is just "Nero Qaisar."
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday August 26 2019, @12:55PM
That looks like another one. Interesting.
My mother-in-law, and Anglican priest (priestess?), pointed out the 626 to me in her copy of the bible. I no longer have access to it, so I can't check it any more.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:48AM (6 children)
What absolute BS. Try taking out 10K right now in cash. First, you may not even be able to do it. Second, they demand to know the reason why, what you intend on doing with it, what you will buy with it or give it to.
Are they planning on repealing the current level of intrusiveness when withdrawing cash?
Same applies with currency exchange. Given the last experience next time it will just be easier to keep the cash in storage for the next overseas trip rather than go through changing it back again.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Sunday August 25 2019, @08:33AM (1 child)
One might presume that you are Australian, and speaking for Australia. We have much the same here in the states, so a presumption that you are American might be valid. It's good advice for people to always keep cash on hand. Of course, people who live payday-to-payday aren't going to keep much more than $100 on hand, and maybe not even that.
Alright, I'll admit, I don't keep $10k on hand, so the whole $10k limit pretty much misses me. Still, I don't like people or corporations tracking me, so cash is good.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @03:48PM
Remember that in the states, if a law enforcement officer discovers that you have too large an amount of cash on you, it will be taken away from you on the theory that you obviously have done something wrong. ("too large" is not defined in any way, of course)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @08:38AM (2 children)
That's because of "anti-money laundering laws". It's also pretty stupid to do large transactions like that with literal cash. People wanting to take out large amount of cash is these days an indication of something weird happening.
Same thing for deposits. You normally can't walk into a bank with a suitcase of cash.
And it's not *you* need to explain things. *Banks* have to explain these things during an audit. They get big fines if they can't explain where the money is coming and going.
Not sure how much cash you are talking about, but I've never had problem with exchanging currency in target country. For cash, you get better exchange there for common currencies like Euro or USD. And then there are banks that will not charge markup to do transaction in other currencies, not sure if American banks do that.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @04:38PM (1 child)
Do you find it difficult to type with the government's cock rammed so far up your throat?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @05:37PM
no shit! what kind of disgusting whore makes excuses for bankster scum.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 26 2019, @04:24PM
American here. I've done this. Multiple times and in a couple different ways. There was no hassle either way. One example, I took out $14k to buy a car. The bank asked why I was taking out that much cash and I told them. No problem. They counted out a whole bunch of 100's for me. (note, the seller wanted cash and cash only - I wanted the car). The second time, a fairly new motorcycle at $11k. This time the seller was OK with a certified check. We both walked into the bank, they produced the certified check for me, I gave it to them, and the deal was done. No questions asked this time. I've also sold cars and ended up with more than $10k in cash. Same process. No hassles.
For the vast majority of cases, the bank doesn't care, they just need to fill in a box. You give them a legitimate reason, they fill in the box, and you are good to go. If anyone in the government has questions, I can provide the bill of sale for everything, so I'm not worried in the least.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Sunday August 25 2019, @10:41AM (9 children)
Australia limits cash transactions to $9,900.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @11:11AM (7 children)
Alternatively: Australia degrades to a barter economy because the government destroyed its currency system.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Sunday August 25 2019, @01:49PM (6 children)
I think one of the things that will happen once governments finally cross the rubicon into "no cash" or "very little cash" is that an alternative, easy currency, be it tradable IOU chits, or whatever, will arise. Such chits could be used for all manner of untrackable transactions. There are all kinds of options and trivial conversions open; hours of specific types of labor, calories, carbs, protein, weight of specific goods, sex, daycare, etc.
Bitcoin and the like are too formalized (and far too much of a PITA, and too unstable) to be practical. It'll be something simple and easy. People like simple and easy. That's one of the significant reasons they like cash. Once government issued-currency is dysfunctional enough, I'm confident it'll happen naturally. And quickly.
As for barter... there's a lot of barter going on already. It's completely untraceable, and people who barter are mostly already too wary to admit it. Here in my rural community, I see it all the time. And it's a very good thing in a world where governments take excessive amounts of money and then waste what they take on things that have little or no merit. Or are outright harmful. Like the drug war. Or the broader war on personal choice. Or most war in general. Etc. And at least here in the USA, while also underperforming significantly in the area of social safety nets and healthcare.
Currency requires trust. Trust is not encouraged by invasive spying into personal finances, repression of personal and consensual choice, inflation, gross mishandling of trade, and profligate waste.
--
🎶When you're down by the sea
And an eel bites your knee🎶
🎶That's a moray
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday August 26 2019, @02:55AM
I expect it will eventually be something even simpler -- amateur coin minting. Real-value coins would be very small and easily concealed.
And then everything old is new again, as we reinvent 'money'.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday August 26 2019, @04:55AM (4 children)
Damn, but that is an unclear emoji.
🎶
I had to look it up as it doesn't look like musical notes to me, maybe a purple squirrel...but not notes even close up.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Monday August 26 2019, @06:40PM (3 children)
Looks just like notes to me [ourtimelines.com] (and I'm a musician) here under OS X within Safari... what OS are you running? Perhaps also significant, what font are you using? How an emoji looks is pretty system-dependent.
--
I run like the winded.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Tuesday August 27 2019, @12:13AM
Win10. I have installed a bunch of fonts for a project I did for a friends wedding invitations and her sons graduation. Not something I normally do, I'm more of a traditional (ink, paint etc) artist and not a graphic artist. Not a dev either so I didn't consider that possibility. But wherever it came from, it sucks. It seriously looks like a purple squirrel head with it's cheeks full....
After a little research, it's the MS emote, shrunken down to the fairly small size I use on my computer, it looks like a squirrel. Blown up it's clearly notes but WAY too busy and packed together to be clear when it's small.
https://emojiguide.org/images/emoji/v/9nelqr1vb15zv.png [emojiguide.org]
Yeah I know, my own fault for using MS, but never was a dev so never needed to learn Linux and was never a fan of Apple. I built a (6 years ago) great gaming system that still holds its own. That and my work laptop covers all the bases I need.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Tuesday August 27 2019, @12:16AM (1 child)
By the way, your little song got my wife rolling. Very clever. Kudos!
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday August 28 2019, @05:11PM
Oh, nice. Well, that's at least two of us that think it's funny then. 😊
--
What if slugs are just snails that have gone
through a divorce? "Yep, she got the house"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @04:11PM
Far better to use indexical definitions in your tyrannous laws such that they're initially less objectionable, and then gradually become worse over time without ever requiring the hassle of changing the law in order to change what is legal.
(Score: 2) by NoMaster on Sunday August 25 2019, @11:20AM (2 children)
I mean, really?
Submitter didn't read the article and/or doesn't understand the Australian parliamentary system. The bill was drafted and introduced by a member of the Government in the House of Representatives, and the only senators* mentioned in the article are against it.
(* Mind you, right as they are in this case, those particular two are minority ultra-right-wing conservating whackjob fruitloops - one of them is a sovereign citizen type who a couple of years ago didn't even know where he was a citizen of; the the other is his leader whose latest claim to fame is demonstrating an inability to walk downhill...)
Live free or fuck off and take your naïve Libertarian fantasies with you...
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday August 25 2019, @03:11PM (1 child)
ultra-right-wing conservating whackjob fruitloops
Yeah, too bad we have to depend on crazy people to defend our rights.
We had that in the States too, when we needed a bunch of republicans for vote for various civil rights acts in '65. And we also had some of them defending us against Clinton's V-Chip, or Clipper Chip, or both, who can remember? It was so long ago...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday August 26 2019, @04:39AM
Pepperidge Farm remembers....
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @12:37PM (3 children)
Read this book from 1939 Germany: https://mises.org/library/vampire-economy [mises.org]
Here is a lecture largely based on it: https://youtube.com/watch?v=17DkMDvKqw0 [youtube.com]
These types of currency controls are yet another thing implemented by the Nazis in 1930s Germany that we are seeing reintroduced lately. You needed to get state approval to do every little thing. The central bankers and "globalist" politicians worldwide are quite simply attempting to implement a one world nazi government. They fucked up banking and interest rates with their incessant meddling and now will "save us" via micromanaging every transaction.
This is not an instance of Godwin's law, this is real.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @05:41PM (2 children)
yes, the so called "nazis" were state socialists which is what very western nation is becoming/has become, while brainwashed state communists call classic liberals and libertarians "nazis". it'd be laughable if it weren't leading to calamity.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:31PM
Yep. Left socialists vs Right socialists. Both are awful theories based on the premise the government is your friend instead of a blunt instrument of violence. They lead to the same end result of a totalitarian state that wants to spy on and micromanage everyones lives.
(Score: 2) by Pslytely Psycho on Monday August 26 2019, @05:04AM
So called Nazis?
They we in power for 25 years. Their shitty philosophy persists to this very day.
You diminish the point of your post with this assertion.
Alex Jones lawyer inspires new TV series: CSI Moron Division.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @02:43PM (1 child)
Last I checked, buying drugs is an individual-to-individual transaction.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @04:26PM
so is bribing politicians.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 25 2019, @05:43PM
it's only ok to "launder money" if you're a bank? fuck you.
(Score: 2) by legont on Sunday August 25 2019, @06:11PM
Negative rates are coming and the government is afraid the people will fuck it. Nothing to do with crime and so on.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.