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posted by
n1
on Monday August 11 2014, @05:25AM
from the back-to-wasting-time-on-futile-things-in-meatspace dept.
from the back-to-wasting-time-on-futile-things-in-meatspace dept.
Pope Francis thinks you are spending too much time chatting online, using your smartphone and watching TV, among other things. He did not Tweet the message, but rather delivered it in person to 50,000 German Altar Servers who dropped by for a visit.
Earlier this year, the pope said the internet was a "Gift From God", while warning against isolation caused by too little face time with real people.
Meanwhile, the British government is warning that too much time online is causing mental illness in children "Loneliness, depression, anxiety, low self-esteem and heightened aggression are some of the possible issues faced by children who may overuse the Internet."
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Pope Francis Urges Young People to Not Waste Time Online
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If the thunder don't get you, then the lightning will.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Lagg on Monday August 11 2014, @06:22AM
How about you go fuck yourself if you manage to take a break from molesting small children you piece of crap. I'm so tired of this holier-than-thou nonsense from this guy. People are saying how he's so much better than the last pope, bullshit. He's the same deluded prick but with shiny silver lining. How dare he claim that the internet is a "gift from God". It's the result of a collaboration of intelligent engineers, not something your magical sky daddy pooped out. The entire racket that passes for the vatican need to be knocked off these pedestals they've built for themselves. I understand that delusion and religious brainwashing is a powerful thing as I was under it for a time early in my life but that was before the internet and the thorough stripping of all religion down to its core where its nature as a system to enable abuse was fully laid out for everyone. So how people can be so willfully ignorant as to follow any of this stuff let alone Pope Pedo Protector up there (and yes he is still protecting them, just like the last guy) in the year 2014 is beyond me.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 1) by Bot on Monday August 11 2014, @07:23AM
So you had to wait for the internet... what about Matthew 23:3? or the devil offering Jesus all the kingdoms in mt 4:8-9, which strongly implies the are under his control?
Believe what you like, but if you think bad people won't get advantage of respectable systems, and you keep the religion itself liable when their books warn you explicitly that wolves come in sheep's clothes Mt 7:15, then you're being a bit too simplistic.
If you don't believe, then you should consider those scriptures in Matthew as a too clever work of reverse psychology, which risks backfiring badly.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Lagg on Monday August 11 2014, @08:17AM
Here's the thing, when you're at that level of willful ignorance like I was the mind tends to rationalize the plethora of inconsistencies in the bible. That's what brainwashing does, it deludes people and trains them to rationalize every flaw with an excuse that basically boils down to "god wrote it this way for a reason" and killing any argument in much the same way. They even rationalize the many revisions and translations as god basically doing version control or some nonsense like that. I didn't have to wait until the internet but it really could have helped. I figured out how much of a scam the entire thing is by noticing the contradictions and inconsistencies on my own but it was a slow process.
and I'm not holding the religion itself liable, I'm holding the religion and the people practicing it liable because they are. I hope you're not implying that any kind of religion is "respectable" either because they're all horrific and disgusting methods of control and means to manipulate people into being tools for the hierarchy leading it. Christians, catholics, scientoligists, they're all the same trash from the pile. Religion has always been about oppression, killing and money. Pope Prick up there yet again reinforces that fact too. His transparent attempts at playing the nice guy is clearly not working so he's moving to the old stand by of "THINK OF TEH CHILDREN" to stop them from learning and exploring what this universe has to offer. Because as the good book says the fruit of knowledge is evil, but knowledge that makes you fear that sadistic fuck in the sky is okay.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by Bot on Monday August 11 2014, @05:17PM
Something as personal as belief can be tied to some arbitrary reasons, but the personal feeling about it is more important, as blindly following someone else's orders is not a merit anyway. "I listened and I don't believe" is sufficient, because "I listened".
The Books are contradictory when seen as a collection of orthogonally important, persistent, truths? oh, but that was not feasible in the first place, because the guy Jesus says "but I tell you", MT 5,43.
Square peg, meet round hole.
I also do not see how a thing that contains symbols, originates partially from oral tradition (which means it contained other expedients to facilitate its learning), and has been object of revisions, has to be taken as an instruction manual instead of a chronicle. If you require it to be an instruction manual you should not be asking yourself "why does it have inconsistencies", but instead "why the hypothetical God left its redaction to man".
The instruction part is in the commandments, and in the sermon of the mount you have the way to improve on them. Why improve? It's not the law that changes, it's those on whom the law is directed that have changed.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 11 2014, @08:32PM
I would consider myself a Christian, and while I don't buy into the Bible as the 'infallible word of God' (it was, after all, written by people), but I consider Christ as an example, not because he is God, but because he was genuinely good to people.
When asked, what the greatest commandment was, Christ (reportedly) replied, "Love God with all your being, and the second one is just like it, love your neighbor as yourself." Which I take to mean that the way to show love for God IS to love your neighbor. This way of living, putting the needs of others, including your enemies, on equal footing as your own doesn't require belief in Christ as God, nor does it require a literal belief in the Bible. It merely requires one to understand that all people deserve respect and love.
And for the record, I was troubled to hear how happy many people were to hear of the death of Osama Bin Laden, not because I felt he was a great guy or anything, but because he was a fellow human.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by EQ on Monday August 11 2014, @07:30AM
Wow. You have an anger/hate issue? Seriously, get help, that kind of vitriol will eat you up.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Lagg on Monday August 11 2014, @08:01AM
Probably. Spending most of one's early life in a cult and being taught to ignore science and maths (seriously, this particular brand of crazy was that you were sinning if you tried to add up the year of the rapture. Of course these fucks never hesitate to shove mathematical "proofs" of The Lard being real in your face) and just generally exploring the universe will do that to you. I didn't fully recover from it until I was an adult and to this day I feel like there is a void where I could have learned things instead of filling my time and mind with bible trash. I might be blunt about the nature and disgusting abuse brought on by religion but I've experienced it first hand and it deserves no less.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 11 2014, @09:12AM
So you think because you've been in a version of Christian religion that forbids employing rational thinking instead of blind following, you are now forbidden to employ rational thinking instead of blind rejection whenever Christian religion is concerned?
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Lagg on Monday August 11 2014, @09:45AM
Blind rejection? Give me a break. Give me one goddamn reason, give me one piece of evidence showing that anything about any religion never mind Christianity is rational. That's how it always is, the religious type always tries to use critical thinking against the person who actually does it and knows what it is because they can't do it themselves. And the "version" I was in isn't a version, that's how every single religion is. It requires willful ignorance and suppressing one's natural desire to question and instead encourages following of a dogma written by insane assholes looking for a handout and a herd to control a few millennia ago. Don't you dare try to make religion as something more significant than it is.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 11 2014, @10:06AM
Well, I for one consider the advise not to spend too much time on the internet quite rational. Not because the pope says it, but because of personal experience with the negative consequences of spending too much time on the internet.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Lagg on Monday August 11 2014, @10:24AM
Saying that one is spending too much time on the internet is like saying one is spending too much time on books or talking to people. Ignoring that though, doing something for too long without exercise is a good point in the same way saying "Don't murder people" is. It's common sense and you can't really argue with that and really the way that this guy delivered that "advice" is just about as far as it gets from rational. Here's a choice quote:
This is not an uncommon quote from this pope either. How people can see this guy as anything but a nutcase is a testament to the brainwashing powers and herd mentality religion encourages.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by Tork on Monday August 11 2014, @03:43PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday August 11 2014, @09:47AM
I can sympathize with you, but that doesn't make your behavior any better for yourself or your environment. First of all, I went to a roman-catholic led school, and even though several of the teachers were priests, the physics- and maths- teachers were not. Actually our school had the best reputation in natural-science related topics in a radius of ca. 25km (and yes, there were a couple of other grammer schools around, usually not led by church). Even religious lessons were held as a science lesson were we learned facts about other religions; facts, neither opinions nor judgement. We had obligatory bi-weekly services as well, which I did not like, but aside from that lessons were not affected by believe.
I quit church a year ago because I didn't want to add to the weight of the popes claims anymore. Still, if you really resent the emotional, biased and apparently abusive treatment you received from the priests around you, stop following their example and start to apply logic and common sense instead of anger. That way people might to pay you even respect instead of / on top of sympathies.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2, Offtopic) by Lagg on Monday August 11 2014, @10:15AM
Therein lies the problem, I don't want sympathy nor do I particularly care whether or not people respect my position on the subject. That's the beauty of it too. I don't need to be an apologist for things like science. I'm angry because I want to be. You don't get rid of problems by ignoring it and pretending that the bible thumper opposite you is giving you any good argument or stimulating discourse. You get rid of them by fixing them, which in this case requires religion and particularly the Pope /or Vatican in this case to be called out for what they are: Manipulative trash. People aren't angry enough at stuff like this, which is why the Pope runs his deluded mouth like he does. He knows that people are just going to uncomfortably shrug him off. I won't. Really though, what does what school you went to have to do with it? You happened to have people who have no business following religious crap in the first place teaching your classes in a school full of cultists? Yay? I mean what do you want from me here? Yes, you can find gold dust in several tons of mud but there's still several tons of mud. Every church and religious school have a few good people in it. The same can be said about maximum security prisons so you'll have to excuse me if I don't see your point.
This thing where people go with the proven-to-be-false mindset of "ignore the trolls and they'll go away" lately really needs to stop. They don't go away. Giving people like this silence merely makes their voice louder.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 3, Insightful) by q.kontinuum on Monday August 11 2014, @12:00PM
Then I don't get your point. You gave anecdotal evidence that church is a harmful organization, which I agree is a poor way of arguing a point. To prove how poor and unreliable anecdotal evidence is, I gave a counter-example, which you now refuted by basically claiming it's only anecdotal evidence. (Your allusion to gold in mud is clearly a reference to statistical insignificance of my example compared to the huge machinery of the catholic church, but apparently you do not come to the conclusion that your personal experience also only reflects a very limited subset of reality.)
You re-iterate your opinion about the catholic church being obsolete or harmful, putting some time and obviously also some personal spirit into it to make your point, on the other hand you claim it doesn't matter to you if people take you seriously or not. Why do you try to make a point when you are not interested in other peoples opinion?
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 11 2014, @04:04PM
I've been following this thread and I appreciate your calm and sincere responses. I have known quite a few religious people who believed in things that I consider silly or pretty clearly insane, but at the same time I've observed that most of them are actually acting like pretty decent people. I knew one particular very nice couple who seemed to ground everything they believed in logic and careful thought (even though I disagreed with some of their conclusions) and eventually I took them up on their invitation to attend their church. It was a shock to me to discover exactly how much loony the service sounded to me after getting to know the couple who invited me. So, I'm prepared to accept that people can be decent to each other, in fact that they usually are, even if their religion is a little nuts.
Then there is the lumping every religion into one group thing. If your religion says everybody should believe the same as you, then fine, I don't care, but I do care what you are supposed to do about people who disagree or change their minds. If your church (or whatever) makes you think you should harm somebody, even "just" mentally, to make sure they believe what you do, then you have a bad religion. Most Christians, Catholics in particular, seem to believe that the right way to handle somebody leaving their church is to pray for them and maybe offer to visit with them. That's a far cry from Islam or Scientology.
I know there are lots of religions that call themselves "Christians" and there are some that are dangerous, but if I find out my sister is going to join the Lutheran church or the Pentecostals or the Mennonites or the Mormans, I don't fear for her nearly like I would if she was joining the Scientologists or Islam. I find it sad that someone can be so embittered by one group that when he escapes, he loses the ability to see distinctions.
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday August 11 2014, @06:49PM
Thanks. I work in an environment with people from >50 different nations in our office; it would be quite chaotic if we would discuss religion on an emotional base.
For the same reason I disagree partially with you about your opinion on Islam: I think that generally, the less educated people are and the less open-minded and the more oppressed they are, the more dangerous they become in their religion. Most Christian countries can afford to be lenient. But considering that we got our position in the world centuries ago by bloodily slaughtering Islam populations, and considering that GW Bush claimed [theguardian.com] God ordered him to liberate Iraq, I have a hard time to accept that Islam is inherently more bloody than Christianity.
I do agree that I perceive violence performed directly in the name of god is more common in Islamic countries in the name of the sharia, but I also met lots of more educated moslems who are as much moslem as most west-european city-folks are christian: i.o.w. it's in their passport, they wouldn't say much against it (well, you never know...), but that's it mainly.
Personally I'd rather follow the Church of the Holy Spaghetti-Monster.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2) by jasassin on Monday August 11 2014, @10:17AM
You are not alone.
jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0x663EB663D1E7F223
(Score: 2) by EQ on Tuesday August 12 2014, @12:51AM
I hope you find a way to unwind all that bad batshit insane stuff that was done to you. Remember that very often, forgiving, even just in your own mind, helps, psychologically. Not them, but you. I know it helped me over abuse in my childhood. Its trite, but true, at least for me. Took a couple decades though, so it is not trivial or easy to do. And there was still some disgust when I had to deal personally with the abusers, but the boiling anger is gone, and I'm far better off for it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 11 2014, @11:06AM
You're blaming the current pope for things that happened before his term. I know Americans love blaming the current person in charge for everything bad thats ever happened ever, but the world is more complex than that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 11 2014, @08:55PM
And get worldwide islam instead?