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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49800181
(Note: emphasis in original.)
Why is this important?
Mr Trump's most ardent critics accuse him of using the powers of the presidency to bully Ukraine into digging up damaging information on a political rival, Democrat Joe Biden.
Meanwhile, Mr Trump and his supporters the former vice-president abused his power to pressure Ukraine to back away from a criminal investigation that could implicate his son, Hunter.
Mr Biden is the front-runner for the Democratic nomination to take on Mr Trump next year.
In other words, it is nothing less than the White House at stake.
[...] What happened to the whistleblower's complaint?
After receiving the [whistleblower] complaint, the inspector general informed Joseph Maguire, the acting director of national intelligence, and said the matter was "urgent". The intelligence community whistleblower law says the director has seven days to pass the complaint along to congressional intelligence committees.
That didn't happen.
Instead, Mr Maguire spoke to a lawyer who told him the issue was not "urgent", at least according to legal standards, according to [T]he New York Times.
As a result, Mr Maguire decided that the members of the congressional oversight committees did not need to see it.
On 9 September, the inspector general informed Congress about the complaint's existence, but not the details. Democrats in Congress have since clamoured for more information - including a transcript of Mr Trump's call - but the administration has refused to co-operate.
And that's where things currently stand.
[...] Did Mr Trump commit an impeachable offence?
The constitutional process for handling a president who committed illegal and-or unethical acts is impeachment by a majority of the House of Representatives and conviction and removal by a two-thirds majority of the US Senate.
The US constitution outlines the grounds for impeachment as "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors". When it comes down to it, an "impeachable offense" is whatever a majority of the House says it is.
Inspector General of the Intelligence Community Letters to Congressional Intelligence Committees
(Score: 4, Funny) by EJ on Tuesday September 24 2019, @05:03AM (35 children)
This is just more desperation over the increasing certainty that President Trump will win a second term, thus invalidating any of the nonsense flailing wharrrgarbls about election tampering.
The Democrats want to convince other Democrats that President Trump's supporters (the most anti-communism "Ruskies are EVIL" base of voters) were persuaded by Russians.
Many Democrats seem to have this superiority complex that makes them believe the only way they can lose is due to corruption. It's almost a cult-like zealotry that makes them think that anyone outside their way of thinking is evil and worthy of destruction.
A lot of Democrats scare me much more than Muslim extremists or white supremacists.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @05:14AM (16 children)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/opinion/democrats-republicans.html [nytimes.com]
(Score: 2, Troll) by EJ on Tuesday September 24 2019, @05:51AM (15 children)
The scary thing is that people who write stories like that probably actually BELIEVE it.
I'm not saying Republicans are perfect. Many Republicans fall into the same traps.
My own personal definition of a bad politician is: Anyone who wants to be a politician.
The thing about my Republican friends is that they tolerate Democrats while the Democrats I know want to exterminate all Republicans.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:05AM
Same experience. The Dems seem to be going for a pure power play, where compromise and understanding is eschewed for the sledgehammer. Maybe they're taking their cues from the recent twitter-lynching phenomenon and feel it is going to work out for them without backlash or consequences. I sure hope not -- that isn't the type of Democrat I grew up with in the 70s and 80s -- that's some authoritarian bullshit that makes me think of modern day Democrats as the equivalent of the freedom hating 80s and 90s evangelical Republicans.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:06AM (10 children)
Most of the Republicans I know are relatively reasonable people. Most of the Democrats I know are relatively reasonable people. Most of the other Americans (myself included) I know believe that we have much more in common than we do differences.
What's more just about *everyone* I know wants to make the US a better place for all of us.
The only places I hear crap like:
Is coming from holes like twitter, reddit and the like. Well, and from you.
Listening to the small minority of loud assholes and thinking that's what *everyone* thinks is naive in the extreme. Believing that your neighbors, co-workers, fellow PTA members and the guy filling up his car at the next pump want to murder those (including you?) who disagree with them is more than a little paranoid and doesn't reflect reality.
Perhaps you might want to think about that. Just a crazy thought.
Or you could just keep looking over your shoulder ("That girl over there. I bet she's a Democrat. Better take the safety off my Glock in case she tries to bash my brains in!"). Please.
(Score: 3, Offtopic) by EJ on Tuesday September 24 2019, @07:42AM (3 children)
I don't read Twitter or Reddit. I just live in an area surrounded by three extremely liberal colleges. My county is bluer than the sky at noon on a clear day. You would not believe how hateful and hostile most of the people here are, even to other Democrats. They just seem to hate everyone who isn't them. It's crazy how hostile they are, driving, in grocery stores, and everywhere else. It boggles my mind. Maybe that's just tainted my views on Democrats, but media figures like Maddow help to reinforce that.
For all I know, there are Republican media figures who are just as bad as Maddow, but I wouldn't know because I don't watch any of it. I only get forwarded links of stupid crap Maddow said that annoyed my friends.
My original hometown was predominantly Republican Christians, and everyone was just so much more polite to each other. The schools I went to had no race issues. We were all friends. When we studied the Civil Rights movements, it was a little surreal to us because none of us could relate to that kind of thinking. In my current liberal city, you would think we're living in 1960 the way people talk.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:10AM
What's the difference? Your lily white hometown didn't have to deal with impoverished blacks like many big cities do. Out of sight, out of mind.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:23AM
To which I'll respond
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @04:06PM
What I find crazy is how you can tell party affiliation by someone's driving or just by looking at them in the grocery store or "everywhere else" for that matter. Well, I suppose you might be able to pick up on clues from the bumper stickers on the car, but still, I think your powers of perceiving political affiliation are vastly overestimated. Just sayin'.
Indeed.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:22AM (2 children)
If this is actually the case (dubious), then those people are Democrats. They may not have actually changed their registration yet, but definitely Democrats. The Democratic party has have so many refugees, it makes the Syrian debacle look like nothing. The only things left are Trump-spawn, Guliani, MarySueKellyanneConmyway, and that person who is not a Huckabee, Hallejujah!
So, to push back against your agitprop disinformation, you do not know that the Republicans you know are relatively reasonable, because, if they were, they would not be Republicans, and, even if they were, they would not be Republicans.
I now treat Republicans as I do Nazis: if I come across one, I punch them in the face. Entertains onlookers, does no damage to the Republican, since they have not soul or moral compass to begin with. ("Why did you punch me?" Because you are the source of all evil in the Senate. "Oh, now, can all us demons go back to Kentucky now? I don't blame you." Yes, but no more bewitching turtles! )
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:26AM
You've now forfeited one Oreo.
Better eat the other one before you put your foot back in your mouth.
(Score: 3, Funny) by hemocyanin on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:35AM
You are either a troll or a democrat. Hard to tell the difference these days.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @12:41PM (1 child)
Glock doesn't have a safety.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday September 24 2019, @02:13PM
Do tell. [glock.com] And here I thought they just didn't have a conventional slide-or-lever-or-button safety. Wonder why they call it a "trigger safety" then???
Now the vast majority of revolvers... they don't have manual safeties. (Although like virtually every modern pistol like Glock and other semis they have drop safeties).
You are welcome
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Tuesday September 24 2019, @07:54PM
If a person speaks out in a manner contrary to GOP dogma, is their economic life typically put up on the guillotine?
If a person speaks out in a manner country to DNC dogma, what is the result? One example: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-rommelmann-me-too-portland-20190222-story.html [latimes.com] Nancy Rommelman is life long lefty and yet when she spoke her mind, the mob came for her husband's business and destroyed it. These things happen on a frequent basis, but it isn't the GOP I see trying to kill people's ability to make a living, it is Democrats. If you disagree with them and dare speak it out loud under your true name, they're going to destroy you. It's violence plain and simple.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:13AM (2 children)
> people who write stories like that probably actually BELIEVE it
Did you read that? I did. It doesn't mean rank and file Republicans when it specifically lists Republican presidencies. It means the Republican party. The author quotes Republican policy, not R-on-the-street, eg.:
The piece is flamebait for sure, but if one looks past the scare-raising, what is there to debate? I guess the meaning of "patriotic" but that's a stupid road to go down. The Republican political party is well documented for doing nasty political things for political gain. Calling those out is the right thing to do and would be the right thing regardless of perpetrator. In this case a pendulum has swung and it happens to be one camp, and so of course an opposing camp would be the only opposing force able to fight in the same field, and try to improve things. Doensn't make D>R, just means right now D can help with R's failings.
Oh yeah? The Republicans I know include a "burn the world down please" prepper, guys who literally say whole-heartedly "Hillary should be shot", and others. I know childlike Democrats too but most of them grow out of the ideological hate-fight by their mid-20s. I don't think your sample is representative of a nation.
(Score: 5, Funny) by EJ on Tuesday September 24 2019, @07:30AM (1 child)
You must not know a lot of Republicans then. The Democrats I know are in their 40s and 50s. They act like they're 12. Each day they come into work after some "breaking story" the previous night, they have this "I just ate a lemon" look on their face as they start yapping at each other about whatever random thing Rachel Maddow was blabbering about, then go off on how they think Trump should be tossed in prison along with all of his supporters (i.e. Republican voters).
That's why I think politics is completely ridiculous. No politician cares about anyone beyond what is necessary to get a vote. They are ALL bought and paid for.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @03:31PM
It is almost like you can't grasp that we have the most criminal president ever and people are upset about it. You are so brainwashed and ignorant you thinks it is all TDS. Ah well, just more rock solid evidence of how damaged most of the SN community is. Trying to pretend they are the reasonable centrists while being far to the right.
From an outside perspectice it is pretty amazing to watch people deny reality and spew so much hate because of it.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Tuesday September 24 2019, @05:39AM (16 children)
I recently ran into this: https://monsterhunternation.com/2018/11/19/the-2nd-amendment-is-obsolete-says-congressman-who-wants-to-nuke-omaha/ [monsterhunternation.com] which despite the URL is very interesting. There's a quote in there which I think pretty much sums up the DNC:
I truly think the DNC and many of the rank and file think this way, and it isn't healthy. It will eventually lead to actual hostilities.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:12AM (6 children)
Says someone with an agenda. I don't know *any* Democrats who think or speak that way. However, this guy is painting Democrats with the same broad brush he *claims* Democrats are using.
Are you really that gullible that you think it's all so black and white? Perhaps you'd be interested in this amazing investment opportunity? You can literally quadruple your money in 90 days with the three simple tools I can share with you...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:20AM (2 children)
Yo those claims of Othering are real, and happen. It's easier to see in college students, but happens at all levels. Human innate instinct is to form an ingroup organism and defend that, including a default hostile attitude to other groups. It makes the person doing the Othering - especially when that person is hypocritical due to claiming to be woke - look really foolish to anyone with a sufficiently mature perspective to notice.
Maybe that author used too broad a brush but this is universal human default behaviour, and all of us, especially when discussing formal political/ized groups, would profit by heeding the advice.*
*ok maybe not. "Team of rivals" and sports teams which perform better against better opponents, capitalism is based on competition, life is suffereing, and so on. Maybe strife due to Othering is the agent of change we need. /doubt
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:44AM
Fuck you, you Republican! We are coming for your AR-15, and your chasity belt, and your bump-stock, and your inflatable sex-doll. We are coming for your capital gains, your secure bonds, and offshore accounts with benefits (off-shore islands with tons of underage young girls that Jeffery says are OK to, well, you know, since you are a pedophile perv, and major researcher at a major (MIT) PIMP (Primarily Interested in Maximal Patronage) University.) Yep, all checks out! Except for the pitchforks and torches at the campus gates?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @04:13PM
I think that's your problem, right there. If you are using college students as your baseline then you will get a skewed view of the world.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:23AM
Relax, he's not that gullible and he's not interested in your tools. Until after the next election, he makes some extra money from the propaganda budget.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday September 24 2019, @03:06PM
Yes, you do. The last two presidential candidates, Obama and Clinton did so when they described "bitter-clingers" or "deplorables". Sure, they didn't dehumanize opposing ethnic groups to the point that would rationalize genocide, but those were classic examples of "othering".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:35PM
Whoa! Are you saying they are not?
(Score: 1, Troll) by c0lo on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:19AM (6 children)
Since you clearly see that's no healthy, maybe you should stop thinking this way? Especially if those thoughts may lead to hostilities. (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:26AM (3 children)
I was riding around with a friend of mine -- Vietnam Marine Corp vet -- and we're talking about some corrupt bullshit I can't recall, and he uses a frequent epithet of his: "commie bastard". I immediately say, "hey -- I'm sitting right here you know!" and we both laugh. I also know some pretty far left people and I can say that the joke in reverse, let's say the person sad "capitalist scum", if I said "Hey, I'm sitting right here you know!" -- it would go over like a lead balloon.
Now, there is one group of right wingers who would react badly, the evangelical crowd. But the current dogmatic, prudish, holier-than-thou, we're gonna force you to live our way attitude of many on the left, is EXACTLY the same bullshit I always hated about the evangelicals. Scolds and bullies suck, no matter the persuasion.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:34AM
Mrs. Pence says she cannot wait for the Rapture. This seems to suggest she has never achieved orgasm. Mike, can you confirm?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:57AM (1 child)
Take care not to make a mistake of the same nature', tho'. The one that stops you see the man from the group that man declared her/his affiliation.
Sorta like generalization on the line of 'all lefties want to eff me' (first, is false, most of the world is left-er of US left and are just happy to go ahead live-and-let-live with their life. Second, you risk creating walls and potentially escalating them).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @12:58PM
Its not all lefties, it's progressives. When you meet one on the internet or in real life you can tell. Religion of woke. Where I live, I don't see many who base their whole identity around politics. Plus a large portion of the "send the republicans to the gulag" types don't have the balls to say it in meat space. It's a majority democrat area and even so it doesn't come up in my day to day interactions.
That said, go out and wear a maga hat and the cult followers will harass or assault you. Doing the reverse in a republican area will get you some comments but not beat up. Sad to say, this loud minority is steering the ship and acting out. Not having a normal democrat as an option means you get 4 more years of trump. It is what it is.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by aristarchus on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:32AM (1 child)
Once again, the c0lo wins the thread with calm and measured commentary. I have a difficult time believing that he posts from Australia. But then, if you want to go where wackos were sent to work out their eccentricities against the hard stone of the outback, reality has a well known liberal bias, especially in the outback, so the only Auzzie conservative are from the cities. And they seem to have British genes. OH, so sad! The Microclitorians, they do nothing!
But then, what was the point, anyway? Time limit? Janrinok acceptance conditions? All this remains a mystery to regular
Soylentils, as well as others.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 25 2019, @12:25AM
Ya for real. "What is this Ukraine fuss about?" Like the first time you see it doesn't give you the info. Such a hackish way to push propaganda and steer the conversation.
Assholes!
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday September 24 2019, @11:57AM (1 child)
Then you have blinders on if you don't see that the RNC and many of the rank and file also think that way.
Start with Libtard. Travel through that one can LEAVE THE COUNTRY or one must HATE THE COUNTRY if you dare to disagree with the Alt-Right conservative doctrine, or that if one is on the left (or lives in a Democrat controlled region) one naturally lives in a crime-infested hellhole. Then sweep through all the insults about being sensitive (snowflakes, SJW's) - that's questionable to associate to liberals but I think a case can be made for it. And of course if you dare support abortion you are a baby-killer.
But what do I know, I must just be a radical nutjob, eh?
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @01:02PM
Both sides are insulting each other with increasingly violent rhetoric.... you don't say.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday September 24 2019, @02:01PM
You can rest assured that Republicans scare most Democrats more than Mexican migrants (of either side) or progress.
Dunno. I see a lot more accusations of "I would've won there but it was rigged!" or "It was rigged but I still won there anyway!" calls from Donald J. Trump than any Democrat has asserted. So I don't think your "believe the only way they can lose is corruption" point to be correct. We just look at the polls that say right now Biden would win over Trump, and has been doing so consistently for six months, which includes every one of 7 mainline polls including Fox News. We look at the polls and see Sanders would win over Trump, and has been doing so consistently for six months, which includes every one of 7 mainline polls including Fox News. We look at the polls and see Warren would win over Trump, and has been doing so consistently for six months, which includes every one of 7 mainline polls including Fox News. And the only one of these that falls within margins of error are Warren's. I'd love to know which polls are saying Trump would win? But if all predictions are heading towards a Trump loss, then why wouldn't one think it would take corruption to make a Trump win?
The Democrats want to convince everyone else that instead of draining the swamp it has been replaced by a toxic waste dump and don't understand why anyone should think otherwise. The Republicans want to convince everyone things are now Great Again and don't understand why anyone should think otherwise.
None of that, by the way, touches the objectiveness as to whether or not Trump making a point of Biden's son to the Ukrainian President in what was supposed to be a congratulatory call isn't actual evidence of corruption. Far from desperation, this could well finally be a smoking gun saying the President acts in his own political interest over that of the country.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:27AM
You weirdos need to get your heads on straight and call a spade a spade.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Coward, Anonymous on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:27AM (1 child)
Could Hunter Biden's name be any more WASPish or prep-schooly? He should be locked up just for that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @03:25PM
This is a touche mod? Lol, you assholes just NEEEEED to hate huh? Liberals are all like "Biden and his son broke the law? Let them face punishment." Conservatives be like, "oooh Biiiiden corrupt fucker oooh take that libs!" Liberals again, " WTF? We already agree with you, what is wrong with your brain?"
Tribalistic snowflake Republican Libertarians. Beyond pathetic at this point.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @12:23PM (3 children)
Poor widdle Twumpie just wants what he feels is rightfully his - a second term, a Nobel Prize, and the adulation of All Humanity. Widdle Twumpie has so many things on his mind but when tawking to the new Ukraine pwesident of course he'd just mention the son of his chief powitical wival. That's a weal National Pwiority! Nuttin to think about, certainly not a political move on a foreign power to get something that helps his election chances! Must be completely unwelated to restricting aid to that country - nobody could make that association. Nobody would wonder if he either did that on purpose or was just that forgetful, or that he's worried about corruption so that must mean his chief political rival must be corrupt so that's all OK then. Widdle Twumpie is never wrong and never cowwupt so just believe him when he says it was a normal call and nothing to see here. No need for a whistleblower notification to Congress as the law is written of course. We'll just wait for Twumpie to literally murder someone before considering impeachment, or maybe we get lucky and he finally gave himself enough rope. Or maybe he was right and he deserves to get away with a literal murder because he's Twumpie. Widdle Twumpie now looking at poop he made and telling us it wuddunt him and it will make lovely roses anyways. Silly widdle Twumpie.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @04:25PM (2 children)
Look, the baby talk shtick needs to go. Just responding to this makes me feel like I am talking down to a two year old. Just sayin'.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @05:52PM (1 child)
You know, I would be pleased to do so and maybe it is time to, especially since you took the time to respond to it. You're right that it is getting old after what, 3 or 4 times. The joke is played out. My take on doing it is:
This is how Trump acts like he wants to be treated. Seriously. So thus my responses are so crafted.
Talk about Trump (Or any Republicrat / Democran stories) are toxic these days. I would rather see NO more national politics drahmas here on SN. And willing enough to ask for no Trump stories enough to say no Biden/Sanders/Warren stories, either. And no, don't tell me not to read them, because you don't have to read Widdle Twumpie - the post title always gives it away.
Thus every recent post about Trump has gotten a Widdle Twumpie post as both a satire of the spoiled child who is President and as a protest against why such stories make the cut at SN when they are literally everywhere else.
Yet this is one of the first and few threads about Trump where I see actual intelligent discussion going on and at least some level of reasoning between right and left amidst all the stupidity (on both sides IMVHO). So I think in the future I'll use a geiger counter and if the discussion is stupid there shalt be more Widdle Twumpie. Or maybe I'll just flat out retire it since someone else stopped doing rDT's. We'll see.
Thanks for the politely worded request.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @10:34PM
And marked redundant, what pricks
(Score: 1) by nsa on Wednesday September 25 2019, @06:55AM
"In other words, it is nothing less than the White House at stake."
In other words politics and free speech are information warfare theatres. Each word of each participant 'meddling' in the outcome of the universe to the extent the word ended up mattering or not.
Let me throw these words into the mix, that I think are applicable to many modern mainstream media narratives- *what about precedent?*. All this potus-trump stranger than fiction stuff almost seems like an IC psyop. I.e. we hear this grand narrative about russian cyber-meddling that somehow only started in a a meaningful way (as far as the mainstream media narrative is concerned) in 2016. Which seems utterly naive in the context of 1950's mccarthyism, lacing Castro's cigars with LSD, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. I almost think Trump is just trolling with knowledge of secrets of past precedents that don't get their reasonable reference in the mainstream narrative. And I don't really believe they are all top secret things that the journalists don't have any access to at all.
Smells funky yo.