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posted by Fnord666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @11:42AM   Printer-friendly
from the gotta-watch-the-watchers dept.

U.S. to Collect DNA of All Undocumented Migrants:

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is developing a plan to take DNA samples from each of the undocumented immigrants and store it in a national database for criminal DNA profiles, they said.

Speaking to journalists on grounds of anonymity, DHS officials said the new policy would give immigration and border control agents a broader picture of the migrant and detainee situation.

And stored on the FBI's CODIS DNA database, it could also be used by others in law enforcement and beyond.

[...] Officials said they were in fact required to take the DNA samples by rules about the handling of arrested and convicted people that were issued by the Justice Department in 2006 and 2010, but which had not been implemented.

They said the program for collecting DNA was still being developed, and they did not have a date set for implementation.

Collecting and storing the DNA of people simply detained and not tried or convicted of a crime has drawn criticism from civil rights advocates.

"Forced DNA collection raises serious privacy and civil liberties concerns and lacks justification, especially when DHS is already using less intrusive identification methods like fingerprinting," Vera Eidelman, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, said in a statement.

"This kind of mass collection also alters the purpose of DNA collection from one of criminal investigation to population surveillance, which is contrary to our basic notions of freedom and autonomy," Eidelman said.

If it becomes okay to do this to "them", how long will it take before they want to do it to "us"?


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:42PM (78 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:42PM (#902234) Journal

    Do these people not understand? If you are an illegal immigrant, you have broken the law and are a criminal. Taking fingerprints and DNA is standard for criminals.

    If you immigrate lawfully, DNA and fingerprints will not be taken. Because you're following the law.

    Immigration is not a hot button issue for me, but this is a very basic distinction that everyone should understand and respect.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:44PM (49 children)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:44PM (#902236)

    If you immigrate lawfully, DNA and fingerprints will not be taken.

    Oh yeah? [path2usa.com]

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:03PM (48 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:03PM (#902244)

      So, these illegal immigrants aren't even being treated differently than legal immigrants?

      Seems like the illegal immigrants have absolutely nothing to complain about, nor their supporters.

      Who the hell supports *illegal* immigration anyhow? That's sheer idiocy. Maybe people want laxer laws, but why wouldn't people want legal vetting of people? Why would people want to pay tax, have minimum wage, etc, but then turn around and want people to not have minimum wage, and to not pay taxes?!

      Just.. why are US political topics so *weird*, so *bizarre*?!

      Think there should be more Mexicans allowed in the US? Then up the immigration allotment for Mexico! I mean, what the hell! Here's what people are shouting:

      "You.. you bastards! Damn Feds! They're following the law, and locking up / kicking out illegal immigrants! The nerve of them! What the hell!!!!"

      Here's what I hear:

      "I'm a small business owner, or a middle class person in the southern US. I want to pay people below minimum wage, with no health care, and if they don't work 14 hour days, threaten to call the immigration control people!"

      I mean, what the *fuck*. Yes. Let's continue to keep a SECOND CLASS of people in the US.

      • (Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM

        by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM (#902250)

        Immigrating to the US in 2019 is like immigrating to Germany in 1936: doable, but not desirable.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM (29 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM (#902252)

        US likes their slaves.

        • (Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:51PM (28 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:51PM (#902262) Homepage Journal

          The US had a shorter history of slavery than pretty much any empire that ever had it (pretty much all of them). Care to try again?

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:42PM (16 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:42PM (#902280)

            The US was just late to the party. They held on to their slavery well after the rest of the world was enlightened. Even after "officially" ending slavery it took decades of riots and deaths to actually end the segregation and discrimination. One could argue there are many parts of the US today that still practice segregation and discrimination. It's just more neatly presented now.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:55PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:55PM (#902287)

              The only thing worse than racism is a SJW.

            • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:47PM (14 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:47PM (#902317) Homepage Journal

              Nope, try again. The US didn't even have slavery for a full hundred years, so it doesn't qualify for "long after" unless you're talking about nations that didn't even exist anymore in 1865.

              As for segregation, that's pretty much entirely self-selection nowadays, so you don't get anyone to blame.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:35PM (13 children)

                by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:35PM (#902341) Journal

                The US didn't even have slavery for a full hundred years,

                Nope, try readIng a history book. The first President owned slaves, and Jamestown got African slaves in the 1600s.

                • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:50PM (12 children)

                  by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:50PM (#902347) Journal

                  Okay, bad context parsing on my part (TMB onviously meant "hundred years after other countries ended it").

                  • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (11 children)

                    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (#902351) Homepage Journal

                    Nah, I meant before 1776 there was no US. In 1775 they were British slave owners. Once we took governance in our own hands, we got rid of slavery pretty damned quickly compared to most anyone else.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:16PM (4 children)

                      by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:16PM (#902357) Journal

                      Well then you're being obtuse. In absolute terms (i.e. year of emancipation), we got rid of it slower than the obvious comparison states. You're just making a silly argument based on when we had a revolution, despite knowing full well that the institution of slavery was around before and after that date. It's not like your record of horrors gets erased the moment you raise a new flag, the institutions that became the new government were pieces of the old one before it.

                      • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:28PM (3 children)

                        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:28PM (#902367) Homepage Journal

                        No, I'm saying you can't hang anything from before the US existed on the US. We had no say in our governance and cannot be held accountable for for it prior to 1776. If you want to hang the pre-revolution slavery on anyone, you have no choice but to hang it on Britain.

                        --
                        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                        • (Score: 2, Touché) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:48AM (2 children)

                          by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @01:48AM (#902513) Journal

                          You had quite a bit of self-governance before 1776, which is why you had legal things that were illegal in the mother country. You guys just got pissed at the King saying everyone was equal, including Jesuits and Natives, and no, you couldn't steal the natives land or keep Catholics out of office so you revolted for the freedom to repress others and have done a good job of it for close to 250 years.

                    • (Score: 2) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:44AM (5 children)

                      by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @01:44AM (#902510) Journal

                      Actually, it was some British colonies that had legal slavery due to Great Britain allowing some self-government. Slavery was illegal in England and Great Britain. So it was the American colonists who decided slavery was legal, I believe by doing an end run around the thing about being put into servitude for X years as a punishment.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:53AM (1 child)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:53AM (#902517)

                        Get it through your skull: the colonists were people straight from Britain living under British law.
                        No USA yet.

                        • (Score: 3, Touché) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @02:23AM

                          by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @02:23AM (#902526) Journal

                          They were colonists from several nations, eg New York was originally Dutch and they all had legislatures. A couple of links if you'd like to educate yourself,
                          https://www.thoughtco.com/colonial-governments-of-the-thirteen-colonies-104595 [thoughtco.com]
                          And from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_government_in_the_Thirteen_Colonies [wikipedia.org]

                          Colonial government in the Thirteen Colonies of North America shared many attributes. While each of the Thirteen Colonies, eventually to become the original United States had its own unique history and development, many common features and patterns emerged in their governing institutions and operations.

                          The representatives of the government of the colonies represented the colony an extension of the English government. Courts enforced the common law of England. The Governor's Council or the Governor's Court was a body of senior advisers to the appointed royal Governor in each province.

                          The legislative body, which went by various names from colony to colony and through time, was elected by the enfranchised voters. By 1755, most free white men could vote. In colonial New England there were annual town meetings, where each colonist had a voice.[1]

                          Diplomatic affairs were handled by London, as were some trade policies.[2] The colonies generally handled domestic matters (and wars with the Native Americans), but England – and after 1707, Great Britain – handled foreign wars.[2] (Royal Colony)

                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:12AM (2 children)

                        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:12AM (#903290) Homepage Journal

                        Sorry, no. It didn't become illegal in Britain until 1807. Prior to that Britain was the largest slave trading nation in the world.

                        --
                        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                        • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:43AM (1 child)

                          by dry (223) on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:43AM (#903298) Journal

                          Slave trading nation, true. Legal in Great Britain, very questionable due to this thing called Habeas corpus. Sorta like how America can do things out of country that would be illegal in country. It's even commonly argued that the Bill of Rights only apply to American citizens.

                          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @06:17AM

                            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday October 06 2019, @06:17AM (#903305) Homepage Journal

                            Dude, I get that Brits don't like being the primary asshats in the historical African slave trade but they absolutely were. They brought slavery to the colonies and they sold the slaves to the colonies. For hundreds of years they treated Africans worse than cattle. That it took us 89 years to get rid of it after giving them the boot is both impressive in its historical brevity and atrocious in that we didn't do it immediately. It does not remotely mitigate anything they did nor does it make us even close to their level of bastardry though.

                            --
                            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM (8 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM (#902296)

            The German empire didn't have slavery. Neither the Austro-Hungarian empire. Nor the Russian empire.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:48PM (3 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:48PM (#902320) Homepage Journal

              I'm not even going to bother disputing those because you named three out of all empires throughout history.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:04PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:04PM (#902327)

                Awww he's back to the easily triggered manly man. I thought he might have had some minor progress with self reflection. Keep it dumb bird brain, never change!

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:08PM (1 child)

                  by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:08PM (#902353) Homepage Journal

                  You need to look up the word "triggered". Either it doesn't mean what you think it means or you're atrocious at picking up tone from text.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @03:51AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @03:51AM (#902534)

                    Sup bird brain, do I look like a plumber? Clean your own shit clogged pipes.

            • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:40PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:40PM (#902343)

              German Nazis’ use of slave labor in industry... Up to nine million people, mostly Jews, were forced to work to absolute exhaustion.
              Way before that... The term 'Slavs' represented the slave industry in that part of Europe.
              You're an Idiot.

              • (Score: 2, Disagree) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (1 child)

                by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (#902352) Journal

                "The German Empire" generally refers to the Second Reich, not the Third. I'm making no claims as to whether they had slaves or not, but I don't think any statements about Nazi Germany were made in the comment you're replying to.

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:47PM

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:47PM (#902445) Journal

                German Nazis’ use of slave labor in industry...

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire [wikipedia.org]

                The term 'Slavs' represented the slave industry in that part of Europe.

                Good point! The Russian Empire was clearly involved in slavery because their thousand-year-back ancestors were enslaved [wiktionary.org]

                Slave - etymology
                From Middle English, from Old French sclave, from Medieval Latin sclāvus (“slave”), from Late Latin Sclāvus (“Slav”), because Slavs were often forced into slavery in the Middle Ages.[1][2][3][4][5] The Latin word is from Byzantine Greek Σκλάβος (Sklábos), see that entry and Slav for more.

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:22PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:22PM (#902362)

            The US had a shorter history of slavery than pretty much any empire that ever had it (pretty much all of them).

            So, your defense is "well, sure, we owned people as property for a time, but we didn't do it as much as some others"? Color me unimpressed.

            Care to try again?

            Ball is back in your court. And, next time, try not to embarrass yourself (and all the rest of us, your fellow citizens) in the process.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:13PM (5 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:13PM (#902254) Journal

        My downstairs neighbor is a home healthcare aide who immigrated legally from Mexico forty years ago. She just lost her job to an illegal immigrant from Guatemala who was willing to work for 1/3 the wage.

        My downstairs neighbor opposes illegal immigration and is a newly minted Trump supporter.

        That's a small anecdote to illustrate who gets hit hardest by illegal immigration: legal immigrants who followed the rules and took the entry-level jobs. So people who argue for open borders are screwing the people they mean to help.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:54PM (1 child)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:54PM (#902263) Homepage Journal

          Nobody, and I really mean nobody, hates illegals like legal immigrants do. Not the staunchest double Nazi Klan supporter. Nobody.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:00AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:00AM (#902538)

            Hurrr durrrr my name is Bubba and my dumbshit wisdom gets upvoted by alt-right racists!

            Don't think I've ever seen a Mexican salivating over doing some human hunting on the border. Every time I think you hit rock bottom you find a way.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by bussdriver on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:32PM (1 child)

          by bussdriver (6876) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:32PM (#902369)

          The GOP will never regulate businesses to the point they can't easily hire illegals without much penalty. The result is those who sneak past the system will always be around indirectly recruiting more hate filled GOP voters who also easily fall for all the scapegoating as well. Propaganda is part of it and it's not supposed to infect their politicians to the point where they ACTUALLY make moves to change their beneficial situation! It's worked too well so now they have gullible suckers getting elected instead of just donating $.

          Abortion is the same kind of sham. Their experts know if they actually win they'll lose it's effectiveness; being the angry underdog / "victim" is far more motivating than playing defense from the winning position. If they lock in abortion bans in the courts it will boost the other side greatly while weakening their support until the court is repaired. Sometimes you can find the experts stating this stuff, it's where I got the idea from. An inhumane DFL expert would want to lose the abortion fight for the political wins it would fuel.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:17AM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:17AM (#903292) Homepage Journal

            It's got nothing to do with party. Getting rid of lower than minimum wage labor would absolutely destroy the US economy and both parties know it. Neither wants them gone and neither wants them paid like citizens.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:55AM

          by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @01:55AM (#902519) Journal

          Why didn't she simply report her employer? Surely in this era of anti-immigration, anyone hiring an illegal immigrant would be thrown in jail.

      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM (#902295)

        Who the hell supports *illegal* immigration anyhow?

        Do-gooders, those purely naive and those with virtue signaling and tribal partisan motives.

        Just.. why are US political topics so *weird*, so *bizarre*?!

        Because political discourse here has no basis in intelligence. It is based on feelz, points per zinger delivered on Twatter, most convincing umbrage portrayed, broadcast by biased media as "news" or "journalism", when it is either entertainment or a political hit piece for the owners.
        In this circus, your right to be heard is based on your identity. If you are part of whatever odd combination of (unchangable) traits, you are a "victim" and can have a voice. If you are just a normal person doing your job, you are an oppressor and can just STFU. Elections are still real, so the two parties will try to eliminate choice beforehand.

        The dirty secret of course is that both parties encouraged illegal immigration. Before Trump, the politicians would throw a bone every so often to the people concerned about illegals taking their job (then fail to implement it). But Trump is a president who couldn't care less about party politics. He'll give teeth for example to a law passed by Saint Obama, he'll get excoriated in the media, but he just doesn't care.

      • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:20PM (7 children)

        by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:20PM (#902305) Journal

        https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

        The 0.1%

        When you can't drive down wages by offshoring, the only hope is to drive down wages by importing labor competition. Works at all levels, right up through H1-Bs.

        To turn border control into a racism issue that Democrats have swallowed hook, line, and sinker, was the most brilliant piece of marketing our overlords ever accomplished. The traditional Republican elite is of course for it as well -- their problem is that many in their base are affected negatively by the downward wage pressure (as are similarly situated Democrats) but they haven't bought the marketing ploy, and so those Republicans are a lot more quiet on the issue preferring the usual back-stabbing process.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:49PM (6 children)

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:49PM (#902322) Homepage Journal

          If you enjoy eating green things, thank an employer of illegal immigrants. Especially in woke California.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:58AM (4 children)

            by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @01:58AM (#902522) Journal

            Our greens are only slightly more expensive and we fly Central Americans in, pay them $15 an hour, house them, and fly them home after harvest.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @08:08PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @08:08PM (#902770)

              Do you know if this common in the industry, or are you an outlier? Can you recommend any brands to buy from or avoid for people who want to avoid supporting exploitative businesses?

              • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday October 05 2019, @01:53AM

                by dry (223) on Saturday October 05 2019, @01:53AM (#902901) Journal

                This is BC. Seems quite common for farms who can't get Canadians to do the labour

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:17AM (1 child)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:17AM (#903293) Homepage Journal

              If by slightly you mean several times the current price, you are correct. If you mean anything else, you are an idiot.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:47AM

                by dry (223) on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:47AM (#903299) Journal

                It competes with foreign greens in a free market and much of our produce (mostly red or blue) is a major export, partially due to its competitive price, quality is good when the workers are happy or at least satisfied.

          • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:02AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:02AM (#902540)

            You're shitty scripts don't work when you hop IPs!

            You're a shitty shitty shiiiittty human being. Truly the Trump of SN, a loud mouthed cowardly conman.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:30PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:30PM (#902310)

        Who the hell supports *illegal* immigration anyhow?

        Eat out? There you go. You do.
        Don't eat out? Where do you get your food from? There you go. You do.

        Ever stay at any hotels/motels/etc.? There you go. You do.
        Done business anyplace that used a janitorial service? There you go. You do.
        Ridden in taxicabs? There you go. You do.
        Buy your Made in USA products? There you go. You do.

        "Wait! I know my last taxi I rode in [janitor who cleaned the floor] [hotel maid] wasn't an illegal immigrant!"
        You're still complicit in the system that wants the lowest price for something. The lowest price comes in part by finding ways to exploit the people who give you that product or service.

        Your red herring aside, it isn't a matter of supporting illegal immigration. It's a question of that when there are illegal immigrants in the country do we not want them as taxpayers, and do they deserve the same basic human rights we would give to everyone, everywhere, anytime? Or should they be turned away from food banks, education, and hospital emergency departments?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:56AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:56AM (#902520)

          You are saying we should give up completely on controlling who enters and lives in our country.
          Just admit it.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:59PM (1 child)

    by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Thursday October 03 2019, @12:59PM (#902242) Journal
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:06PM (#902247)

      Idiots. $250k fine? Yes, that will withstand a court challenge. And what the hell? Trying to assign intent if you call ICE? Again, that law won't last.

      They should have made the fine reasonable ($1k max or something), and not involved "Called the police for an illegal act".

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Immerman on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:24PM (12 children)

    by Immerman (3985) on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:24PM (#902257)

    > If you are an illegal immigrant, you have broken the law and are a criminal.

    Only a misdemeanor though - which means our legal system should treat it similarly to jaywalking unless and until the legislature makes it a serious crime.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:20PM (11 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:20PM (#902273) Journal

      Furthermore, in the US, we don't generally treat petty criminals like animals.

      We CAN protect our borders without treating people as sub-human in the process.

      --
      To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:18PM (10 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:18PM (#902304)

        Hahahahaha!!! You know how I know you've never gotten in trouble with the law?

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:30PM (9 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:30PM (#902311) Journal

          You're right that I've never gotten in trouble, and you may be right about what you imply that I don't know something important about how such people are treated.

          --
          To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:52PM (8 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:52PM (#902324) Homepage Journal

            Cops are awesome when you need them and colossal shitheads when they're busting you.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:06PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:06PM (#902329)

              Guyger

              Not an isolated problem. Funny how you white bread morons never get upset about such things. I'll leave it to the reader to figure out why that is.

              • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:12PM (1 child)

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:12PM (#902354) Homepage Journal

                Wow. That really was some impressive nonsense. Not a single thing you said was either relevant or correct.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @03:55AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @03:55AM (#902535)

                  Because you're an ignorant fuckwit. Not like I was actually hoping for a glimmer of self-awareness from an alt-lite dipstick.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:20AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:20AM (#902503)

                https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/amber-guyger/ [heavy.com]

                Upon being asked where she was located by emergency dispatchers, she returned to the front door to observe the address and discovered she was at the wrong apartment,” the document alleges.

                Who the hell has to go to their front door to check the address they live at?

            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:54PM

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:54PM (#902375) Journal

              I'm not sure.

              If I have to be more afraid of the cops than the criminals, I'm not sure I want to call them for help.

              However, where I live, I don't think I would have this fear.

              --
              To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @06:01PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @06:01PM (#902377)

              Cops are awesome when you need them and colossal shitheads when they're busting you.

              Really? My experience has been that cops are frequently nowhere to be found when I actually need them. And, yes, there are a significant fraction of cops who can be "colossal shitheads" over the most trivial of infractions. Not all of them, but they certainly exist.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:32PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @07:32PM (#902403)

                They preferred to try and find something on ME after calling them out, rather than actually listen and respond to the reason they were called out. And after a long and lengthy conversation in which they couldn't find anything illegal they promised to file a report, of which nothing ever came of it.

                *MULTIPLE TIMES*

                And this is in a lower middle class white neighborhood, around a mile from million dollar mansions. I can't imagine what it is like for people in the actually poor parts of town, which interestingly look more like an internment camp given all the traffic and utility pole cameras and the police presence there. The wealthier neighborhoods for reference have none of those cameras except on a select few major intersections and appear designed to let people enter and leave the area without license plate scanning if the follow the proper roads. The poor neighborhoods on the other hand, you can't walk out of without being tracked. America: Home of the Coward and Land of the Fee.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @08:29PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @08:29PM (#902423)

                  So move out. It's apparent they don't want you there, and you sound intelligent enough that you could afford a solid middle class neighborhood at least.
                  Plus, you may not have need then to call the cops so often.

  • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:00PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:00PM (#902266)

    There's no such thing as illegal immigrant. Principally, freedom of mobility takes precedent over national and constitutional laws via treaties. Legally, nations are under the right to control the entry and exist of migrants, but once someone from a different nationality (or no nationality) is in your country, they're migrants with full rights whose only crime is illegal entry / crossing national borders. And since extradition for unlawful entry is illegal unless caught right on the border, countries that ship away "illegals" are the ones committing crimes.

    It all comes down to a simple definition: A nation is a group of people who can secure their borders, manage their resources and cloth, house and feed its people. The right to control exit and entry to your territory is actually a duty and it ends where the international treaties say the border ends, not when you like it to end in your "constitutions free zones". Deporting migrants, whether you'd like them to be ones or not, is illegal. It's why Trump is building the wall: Because that's the only legal way to take control over immigration under international laws. Otherwise, you're just the biggest gang in the neighborhood.

    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:14PM (2 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:14PM (#902356) Homepage Journal

      Neat, you're not just wrong on your fundamental claim, you're wrong on pretty much every detail. That takes dedication and effort.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:03PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:03PM (#902427)

        [Citation needed]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:59PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:59PM (#902465)

          [Citations needed]

          FTFY

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:49AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:49AM (#902514)

      Are you a SOVEREIGN CITIZEN ?
      Heh heh.
      Ask Wesley Snipes if you can get away with ignoring the law because you don't like it.

  • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:13PM

    by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:13PM (#902336) Journal

    Your precious laws are irrelevant here, the government just wants data. Any excuse that will be accepted is good enough. Remeber that time the CIA used a vaccine drive to steal the DNA of children in a country they weren't even at war with? [theguardian.com] This isn't about laws, it's about using a set of piecemeal justifications to create an ever more detailed map of every human's biometrics over time. Your citizenship didn't protect from warrantless wiretaps, and it won't protect you from having your DNA stolen when the time comes.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:15PM (4 children)

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:15PM (#902337) Journal

    It is LEGAL to come to this country and apply for asylum.

    Also, FTA:

    Collecting and storing the DNA of people simply detained and not tried or convicted of a crime has drawn criticism from civil rights advocates.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:18PM (3 children)

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:18PM (#902359) Homepage Journal

      Not exactly. Seeking asylum is a defense that can be used in cases of illegal entry; not precisely the same as being legal. Like "fair use" in copyright cases or "self defense" in murder cases.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:28PM (1 child)

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:28PM (#902366) Journal

        Fair Use is also legal. Semantics doesn't change that.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:22AM

          by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:22AM (#903294) Homepage Journal

          Theory vs. Practice. In theory it's perfectly legal to blow a guy's brains all over the wall if he was threatening you sufficiently. In practice you're still very likely going to have to shell out for a lawyer if you want to stay out of jail.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:11AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:11AM (#902543)

        Whaaaa whaaa I'm a hateful prick more worried about poor schmucks looking for a better life, and not the criminal con artist busy destroying the country.

        Real fucking stable all these geniuses are, totally not whiny boomers evsding every shred of personal responsibility.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:31PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:31PM (#902453)

    Do these people not understand? If you are an illegal immigrant, you have broken the law and are a criminal. Taking fingerprints and DNA is standard for criminals.

    Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. Serious question: do people charged with misdemeanors typically get a DNA sample taken and fingerprinted? I'm genuinely curious to know.

    If you immigrate lawfully, DNA and fingerprints will not be taken. Because you're following the law.

    Are you sure about that? My understanding is that ALL immigrants typically have to give up "biometric data", which I take to be retinal scans and fingerprints at least. If you or someone else knows better, please enlighten me.

    Immigration is not a hot button issue for me, but this is a very basic distinction that everyone should understand and respect.

    I am truly trying to understand, hence my questions above. I await enlightenment at your soonest possible convenience. Thanks.

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:48PM

      by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Thursday October 03 2019, @10:48PM (#902457) Journal

      DNA From Genealogy Site Led to Capture of Golden State Killer Suspect [soylentnews.org]

      In 2004, California voters passed Proposition 69, known as the "DNA Fingerprint, Unsolved Crime and Innocence Protection Act." [ca.gov] It gave the state broader powers to collect DNA. Now, it could get samples from anyone not just convicted of a felony, but even arrested for one. In some cases, authorities could also collect DNA from misdemeanor arrests.

      Proposition 69 (DNA) [ca.gov]

      If your DNA was taken at arrest, you can ask to have it removed from DNA Databases, under the following conditions:

      • If not charged with a felony
      • If not convicted of a felony
      • If misdemeanor conviction, must have no prior felonies
      • If not a registering sex or arson offender
      • Other conditions apply

      Fingerprints may be collected for misdemeanors, depending on the state. These records could end up at the FBI.

      The system wants everyone's biometric data and even whole genome sequences. We're getting there eventually.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]