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posted by Fnord666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @11:42AM   Printer-friendly
from the gotta-watch-the-watchers dept.

U.S. to Collect DNA of All Undocumented Migrants:

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is developing a plan to take DNA samples from each of the undocumented immigrants and store it in a national database for criminal DNA profiles, they said.

Speaking to journalists on grounds of anonymity, DHS officials said the new policy would give immigration and border control agents a broader picture of the migrant and detainee situation.

And stored on the FBI's CODIS DNA database, it could also be used by others in law enforcement and beyond.

[...] Officials said they were in fact required to take the DNA samples by rules about the handling of arrested and convicted people that were issued by the Justice Department in 2006 and 2010, but which had not been implemented.

They said the program for collecting DNA was still being developed, and they did not have a date set for implementation.

Collecting and storing the DNA of people simply detained and not tried or convicted of a crime has drawn criticism from civil rights advocates.

"Forced DNA collection raises serious privacy and civil liberties concerns and lacks justification, especially when DHS is already using less intrusive identification methods like fingerprinting," Vera Eidelman, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, said in a statement.

"This kind of mass collection also alters the purpose of DNA collection from one of criminal investigation to population surveillance, which is contrary to our basic notions of freedom and autonomy," Eidelman said.

If it becomes okay to do this to "them", how long will it take before they want to do it to "us"?


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:03PM (48 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:03PM (#902244)

    So, these illegal immigrants aren't even being treated differently than legal immigrants?

    Seems like the illegal immigrants have absolutely nothing to complain about, nor their supporters.

    Who the hell supports *illegal* immigration anyhow? That's sheer idiocy. Maybe people want laxer laws, but why wouldn't people want legal vetting of people? Why would people want to pay tax, have minimum wage, etc, but then turn around and want people to not have minimum wage, and to not pay taxes?!

    Just.. why are US political topics so *weird*, so *bizarre*?!

    Think there should be more Mexicans allowed in the US? Then up the immigration allotment for Mexico! I mean, what the hell! Here's what people are shouting:

    "You.. you bastards! Damn Feds! They're following the law, and locking up / kicking out illegal immigrants! The nerve of them! What the hell!!!!"

    Here's what I hear:

    "I'm a small business owner, or a middle class person in the southern US. I want to pay people below minimum wage, with no health care, and if they don't work 14 hour days, threaten to call the immigration control people!"

    I mean, what the *fuck*. Yes. Let's continue to keep a SECOND CLASS of people in the US.

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  • (Score: 2) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (4757) on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM (#902250)

    Immigrating to the US in 2019 is like immigrating to Germany in 1936: doable, but not desirable.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM (29 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:08PM (#902252)

    US likes their slaves.

    • (Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:51PM (28 children)

      The US had a shorter history of slavery than pretty much any empire that ever had it (pretty much all of them). Care to try again?

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:42PM (16 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:42PM (#902280)

        The US was just late to the party. They held on to their slavery well after the rest of the world was enlightened. Even after "officially" ending slavery it took decades of riots and deaths to actually end the segregation and discrimination. One could argue there are many parts of the US today that still practice segregation and discrimination. It's just more neatly presented now.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:55PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @02:55PM (#902287)

          The only thing worse than racism is a SJW.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:47PM (14 children)

          Nope, try again. The US didn't even have slavery for a full hundred years, so it doesn't qualify for "long after" unless you're talking about nations that didn't even exist anymore in 1865.

          As for segregation, that's pretty much entirely self-selection nowadays, so you don't get anyone to blame.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:35PM (13 children)

            by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:35PM (#902341) Journal

            The US didn't even have slavery for a full hundred years,

            Nope, try readIng a history book. The first President owned slaves, and Jamestown got African slaves in the 1600s.

            • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:50PM (12 children)

              by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:50PM (#902347) Journal

              Okay, bad context parsing on my part (TMB onviously meant "hundred years after other countries ended it").

              • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (11 children)

                Nah, I meant before 1776 there was no US. In 1775 they were British slave owners. Once we took governance in our own hands, we got rid of slavery pretty damned quickly compared to most anyone else.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:16PM (4 children)

                  by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:16PM (#902357) Journal

                  Well then you're being obtuse. In absolute terms (i.e. year of emancipation), we got rid of it slower than the obvious comparison states. You're just making a silly argument based on when we had a revolution, despite knowing full well that the institution of slavery was around before and after that date. It's not like your record of horrors gets erased the moment you raise a new flag, the institutions that became the new government were pieces of the old one before it.

                  • (Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:28PM (3 children)

                    No, I'm saying you can't hang anything from before the US existed on the US. We had no say in our governance and cannot be held accountable for for it prior to 1776. If you want to hang the pre-revolution slavery on anyone, you have no choice but to hang it on Britain.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 2, Touché) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:48AM (2 children)

                      by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @01:48AM (#902513) Journal

                      You had quite a bit of self-governance before 1776, which is why you had legal things that were illegal in the mother country. You guys just got pissed at the King saying everyone was equal, including Jesuits and Natives, and no, you couldn't steal the natives land or keep Catholics out of office so you revolted for the freedom to repress others and have done a good job of it for close to 250 years.

                • (Score: 2) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:44AM (5 children)

                  by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @01:44AM (#902510) Journal

                  Actually, it was some British colonies that had legal slavery due to Great Britain allowing some self-government. Slavery was illegal in England and Great Britain. So it was the American colonists who decided slavery was legal, I believe by doing an end run around the thing about being put into servitude for X years as a punishment.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:53AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:53AM (#902517)

                    Get it through your skull: the colonists were people straight from Britain living under British law.
                    No USA yet.

                    • (Score: 3, Touché) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @02:23AM

                      by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @02:23AM (#902526) Journal

                      They were colonists from several nations, eg New York was originally Dutch and they all had legislatures. A couple of links if you'd like to educate yourself,
                      https://www.thoughtco.com/colonial-governments-of-the-thirteen-colonies-104595 [thoughtco.com]
                      And from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_government_in_the_Thirteen_Colonies [wikipedia.org]

                      Colonial government in the Thirteen Colonies of North America shared many attributes. While each of the Thirteen Colonies, eventually to become the original United States had its own unique history and development, many common features and patterns emerged in their governing institutions and operations.

                      The representatives of the government of the colonies represented the colony an extension of the English government. Courts enforced the common law of England. The Governor's Council or the Governor's Court was a body of senior advisers to the appointed royal Governor in each province.

                      The legislative body, which went by various names from colony to colony and through time, was elected by the enfranchised voters. By 1755, most free white men could vote. In colonial New England there were annual town meetings, where each colonist had a voice.[1]

                      Diplomatic affairs were handled by London, as were some trade policies.[2] The colonies generally handled domestic matters (and wars with the Native Americans), but England – and after 1707, Great Britain – handled foreign wars.[2] (Royal Colony)

                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:12AM (2 children)

                    Sorry, no. It didn't become illegal in Britain until 1807. Prior to that Britain was the largest slave trading nation in the world.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:43AM (1 child)

                      by dry (223) on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:43AM (#903298) Journal

                      Slave trading nation, true. Legal in Great Britain, very questionable due to this thing called Habeas corpus. Sorta like how America can do things out of country that would be illegal in country. It's even commonly argued that the Bill of Rights only apply to American citizens.

                      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @06:17AM

                        Dude, I get that Brits don't like being the primary asshats in the historical African slave trade but they absolutely were. They brought slavery to the colonies and they sold the slaves to the colonies. For hundreds of years they treated Africans worse than cattle. That it took us 89 years to get rid of it after giving them the boot is both impressive in its historical brevity and atrocious in that we didn't do it immediately. It does not remotely mitigate anything they did nor does it make us even close to their level of bastardry though.

                        --
                        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM (8 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM (#902296)

        The German empire didn't have slavery. Neither the Austro-Hungarian empire. Nor the Russian empire.

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:48PM (3 children)

          I'm not even going to bother disputing those because you named three out of all empires throughout history.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:04PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:04PM (#902327)

            Awww he's back to the easily triggered manly man. I thought he might have had some minor progress with self reflection. Keep it dumb bird brain, never change!

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:08PM (1 child)

              You need to look up the word "triggered". Either it doesn't mean what you think it means or you're atrocious at picking up tone from text.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @03:51AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @03:51AM (#902534)

                Sup bird brain, do I look like a plumber? Clean your own shit clogged pipes.

        • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:40PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @04:40PM (#902343)

          German Nazis’ use of slave labor in industry... Up to nine million people, mostly Jews, were forced to work to absolute exhaustion.
          Way before that... The term 'Slavs' represented the slave industry in that part of Europe.
          You're an Idiot.

          • (Score: 2, Disagree) by JNCF on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (1 child)

            by JNCF (4317) on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:07PM (#902352) Journal

            "The German Empire" generally refers to the Second Reich, not the Third. I'm making no claims as to whether they had slaves or not, but I don't think any statements about Nazi Germany were made in the comment you're replying to.

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:47PM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 03 2019, @09:47PM (#902445) Journal

            German Nazis’ use of slave labor in industry...

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire [wikipedia.org]

            The term 'Slavs' represented the slave industry in that part of Europe.

            Good point! The Russian Empire was clearly involved in slavery because their thousand-year-back ancestors were enslaved [wiktionary.org]

            Slave - etymology
            From Middle English, from Old French sclave, from Medieval Latin sclāvus (“slave”), from Late Latin Sclāvus (“Slav”), because Slavs were often forced into slavery in the Middle Ages.[1][2][3][4][5] The Latin word is from Byzantine Greek Σκλάβος (Sklábos), see that entry and Slav for more.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:22PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:22PM (#902362)

        The US had a shorter history of slavery than pretty much any empire that ever had it (pretty much all of them).

        So, your defense is "well, sure, we owned people as property for a time, but we didn't do it as much as some others"? Color me unimpressed.

        Care to try again?

        Ball is back in your court. And, next time, try not to embarrass yourself (and all the rest of us, your fellow citizens) in the process.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:13PM (5 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:13PM (#902254) Journal

    My downstairs neighbor is a home healthcare aide who immigrated legally from Mexico forty years ago. She just lost her job to an illegal immigrant from Guatemala who was willing to work for 1/3 the wage.

    My downstairs neighbor opposes illegal immigration and is a newly minted Trump supporter.

    That's a small anecdote to illustrate who gets hit hardest by illegal immigration: legal immigrants who followed the rules and took the entry-level jobs. So people who argue for open borders are screwing the people they mean to help.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @01:54PM (1 child)

      Nobody, and I really mean nobody, hates illegals like legal immigrants do. Not the staunchest double Nazi Klan supporter. Nobody.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:00AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:00AM (#902538)

        Hurrr durrrr my name is Bubba and my dumbshit wisdom gets upvoted by alt-right racists!

        Don't think I've ever seen a Mexican salivating over doing some human hunting on the border. Every time I think you hit rock bottom you find a way.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by bussdriver on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:32PM (1 child)

      by bussdriver (6876) on Thursday October 03 2019, @05:32PM (#902369)

      The GOP will never regulate businesses to the point they can't easily hire illegals without much penalty. The result is those who sneak past the system will always be around indirectly recruiting more hate filled GOP voters who also easily fall for all the scapegoating as well. Propaganda is part of it and it's not supposed to infect their politicians to the point where they ACTUALLY make moves to change their beneficial situation! It's worked too well so now they have gullible suckers getting elected instead of just donating $.

      Abortion is the same kind of sham. Their experts know if they actually win they'll lose it's effectiveness; being the angry underdog / "victim" is far more motivating than playing defense from the winning position. If they lock in abortion bans in the courts it will boost the other side greatly while weakening their support until the court is repaired. Sometimes you can find the experts stating this stuff, it's where I got the idea from. An inhumane DFL expert would want to lose the abortion fight for the political wins it would fuel.

    • (Score: 2) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:55AM

      by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @01:55AM (#902519) Journal

      Why didn't she simply report her employer? Surely in this era of anti-immigration, anyone hiring an illegal immigrant would be thrown in jail.

  • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:06PM (#902295)

    Who the hell supports *illegal* immigration anyhow?

    Do-gooders, those purely naive and those with virtue signaling and tribal partisan motives.

    Just.. why are US political topics so *weird*, so *bizarre*?!

    Because political discourse here has no basis in intelligence. It is based on feelz, points per zinger delivered on Twatter, most convincing umbrage portrayed, broadcast by biased media as "news" or "journalism", when it is either entertainment or a political hit piece for the owners.
    In this circus, your right to be heard is based on your identity. If you are part of whatever odd combination of (unchangable) traits, you are a "victim" and can have a voice. If you are just a normal person doing your job, you are an oppressor and can just STFU. Elections are still real, so the two parties will try to eliminate choice beforehand.

    The dirty secret of course is that both parties encouraged illegal immigration. Before Trump, the politicians would throw a bone every so often to the people concerned about illegals taking their job (then fail to implement it). But Trump is a president who couldn't care less about party politics. He'll give teeth for example to a law passed by Saint Obama, he'll get excoriated in the media, but he just doesn't care.

  • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:20PM (7 children)

    by hemocyanin (186) Subscriber Badge on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:20PM (#902305) Journal

    https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

    The 0.1%

    When you can't drive down wages by offshoring, the only hope is to drive down wages by importing labor competition. Works at all levels, right up through H1-Bs.

    To turn border control into a racism issue that Democrats have swallowed hook, line, and sinker, was the most brilliant piece of marketing our overlords ever accomplished. The traditional Republican elite is of course for it as well -- their problem is that many in their base are affected negatively by the downward wage pressure (as are similarly situated Democrats) but they haven't bought the marketing ploy, and so those Republicans are a lot more quiet on the issue preferring the usual back-stabbing process.

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:49PM (6 children)

      If you enjoy eating green things, thank an employer of illegal immigrants. Especially in woke California.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Friday October 04 2019, @01:58AM (4 children)

        by dry (223) on Friday October 04 2019, @01:58AM (#902522) Journal

        Our greens are only slightly more expensive and we fly Central Americans in, pay them $15 an hour, house them, and fly them home after harvest.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @08:08PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @08:08PM (#902770)

          Do you know if this common in the industry, or are you an outlier? Can you recommend any brands to buy from or avoid for people who want to avoid supporting exploitative businesses?

          • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday October 05 2019, @01:53AM

            by dry (223) on Saturday October 05 2019, @01:53AM (#902901) Journal

            This is BC. Seems quite common for farms who can't get Canadians to do the labour

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:17AM (1 child)

          If by slightly you mean several times the current price, you are correct. If you mean anything else, you are an idiot.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:47AM

            by dry (223) on Sunday October 06 2019, @04:47AM (#903299) Journal

            It competes with foreign greens in a free market and much of our produce (mostly red or blue) is a major export, partially due to its competitive price, quality is good when the workers are happy or at least satisfied.

      • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:02AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @04:02AM (#902540)

        You're shitty scripts don't work when you hop IPs!

        You're a shitty shitty shiiiittty human being. Truly the Trump of SN, a loud mouthed cowardly conman.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:30PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 03 2019, @03:30PM (#902310)

    Who the hell supports *illegal* immigration anyhow?

    Eat out? There you go. You do.
    Don't eat out? Where do you get your food from? There you go. You do.

    Ever stay at any hotels/motels/etc.? There you go. You do.
    Done business anyplace that used a janitorial service? There you go. You do.
    Ridden in taxicabs? There you go. You do.
    Buy your Made in USA products? There you go. You do.

    "Wait! I know my last taxi I rode in [janitor who cleaned the floor] [hotel maid] wasn't an illegal immigrant!"
    You're still complicit in the system that wants the lowest price for something. The lowest price comes in part by finding ways to exploit the people who give you that product or service.

    Your red herring aside, it isn't a matter of supporting illegal immigration. It's a question of that when there are illegal immigrants in the country do we not want them as taxpayers, and do they deserve the same basic human rights we would give to everyone, everywhere, anytime? Or should they be turned away from food banks, education, and hospital emergency departments?

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:56AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 04 2019, @01:56AM (#902520)

      You are saying we should give up completely on controlling who enters and lives in our country.
      Just admit it.