"So true! My modest proposal is that now would be a good time to stop, maybe, possibly?"
You'd need to be more specific? *How* would you propose to stop it? I can't see any reasonable way. Congress needs to be able to issue subpoenas, can't stop it there. People have legitimate (and lawful) reasons to dismiss those subpoenas at times, can't stop it there. Sure it's a crummy system but I don't see any straightforward and obvious way to improve it, and it's been working well enough all things considered. There have been AT LEAST 20 different cases like this since 1975 alone. Often there were legitimate objections to the subpoena, they're often overly broad and not lawful on their face, there will be negotiations, it gets narrowed to fit inside the scope of the law, and then complied with. In some cases people have been found in contempt, I think Backpage might have been the last case of this? But each case is different and has to be evaluated individually, and most of the time they're settled by negotiation without needing to cite anyone.
"Mueller is irrelevant."
You know, it's funny, it seemed he was REALLY relevant for about 2 years, he was the most relevant thing ever, He was the Savior of our nation, he was going to come in on a white horse and take Trump out, and then once his report comes out and it's clear he got nothing, suddenly he's not relevant anymore.
"The prez is obstructing justice right now over the many subpoenas being issued."
Ok, I think I see what's going on here. You're using the phrase in sort of a loose non-technical sense, I can see how in that sense you might think it applies to refusing a Congressional subpoena.
But it's actually a legal term with a specific legal meaning and it doesn't really apply here. Noncompliance with a Congressional subpoena falls under 2 USC 191-194. Obstruction is 18 USC 1501-1521.
"Congress has a right to investigate the president for the smallest suspicions of any wrongdoing."
Sure, well they have that power. They have the power to impeach him for anything or nothing as well. But that doesn't mean it would be wise to do so.
"And I will tell you why they tread lightly, they are all in the same boat, goes with the territory, and discovery is a big iceberg also. It is a dance of the butterflies."
Absolutely.
Trump should absolutely be impeached and removed. He's committed real, serious crimes, on the record so to speak, that in a perfect world would indeed result in his impeachment and conviction.
But he won't be impeached for any of that. It's simply not possible. The reason is because most members of Congress are complicit in all the same crimes.
So the opposition is flailing around in a panic trying to find *something* else to hang on him. Something that won't implicate them.
It's pure tribalism, it has nothing to do with rule of law.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday October 08 2019, @05:39PM
You'd need to be more specific? *How* would you propose to stop it? I can't see any reasonable way. Congress needs to be able to issue subpoenas, can't stop it there. People have legitimate (and lawful) reasons to dismiss those subpoenas at times, can't stop it there. Sure it's a crummy system but I don't see any straightforward and obvious way to improve it, and it's been working well enough all things considered. There have been AT LEAST 20 different cases like this since 1975 alone. Often there were legitimate objections to the subpoena, they're often overly broad and not lawful on their face, there will be negotiations, it gets narrowed to fit inside the scope of the law, and then complied with. In some cases people have been found in contempt, I think Backpage might have been the last case of this? But each case is different and has to be evaluated individually, and most of the time they're settled by negotiation without needing to cite anyone.
"Mueller is irrelevant."
You know, it's funny, it seemed he was REALLY relevant for about 2 years, he was the most relevant thing ever, He was the Savior of our nation, he was going to come in on a white horse and take Trump out, and then once his report comes out and it's clear he got nothing, suddenly he's not relevant anymore.
"The prez is obstructing justice right now over the many subpoenas being issued."
Ok, I think I see what's going on here. You're using the phrase in sort of a loose non-technical sense, I can see how in that sense you might think it applies to refusing a Congressional subpoena.
But it's actually a legal term with a specific legal meaning and it doesn't really apply here. Noncompliance with a Congressional subpoena falls under 2 USC 191-194. Obstruction is 18 USC 1501-1521.
"Congress has a right to investigate the president for the smallest suspicions of any wrongdoing."
Sure, well they have that power. They have the power to impeach him for anything or nothing as well. But that doesn't mean it would be wise to do so.
"And I will tell you why they tread lightly, they are all in the same boat, goes with the territory, and discovery is a big iceberg also. It is a dance of the butterflies."
Absolutely.
Trump should absolutely be impeached and removed. He's committed real, serious crimes, on the record so to speak, that in a perfect world would indeed result in his impeachment and conviction.
But he won't be impeached for any of that. It's simply not possible. The reason is because most members of Congress are complicit in all the same crimes.
So the opposition is flailing around in a panic trying to find *something* else to hang on him. Something that won't implicate them.
It's pure tribalism, it has nothing to do with rule of law.