In a letter, Giuliani’s attorney—who was dropped by his client shortly after said letter went out—said the subpoena was “overbroad, unduly burdensome, and seeks documents beyond the scope of legitimate inquiry.”
Given who's blinking, maybe the Democrat leadership agrees.
Much the same (that is, nothing) happened when the Obama administration ignored Republican subpoenas. Guess someone needs to put teeth into these things. But I get the sense that I shouldn't hold my breath on that.
They can't. There are elements of the Democratic machine--I am thinking the DNC and the corporate wing here--who are just as filthy as the Republicans and may well have been wallowing in the same mudhole. To Hell with every last one of them. One of the other posters here has a sig that more or less reads "Do justice and let the world crumble," and I agree with my entire being.
-- I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
Yeah well, who do you think is going to crumble? Them, our "lords and masters"? Please! Don't delude yourself. Nothing will make them happier than to see us kill each other down to around a billion or so.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:38AM
(10 children)
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:38AM (#908200)
Fiat iustica, ruat coelum!
Pansy ass Americans. Genocided you way to take land from people decimated by diseases you brought, getting involved in wars where you allies have already done the brunt of the work (WWI, WWII), and attacking country whose air power you destroyed, while supporting the Kurds, and encouraging the Marsh Arabs to revolt, but not coming to save them when they did, and now, at long last, the Kurds suffer the same fate. Americans! Can't trust them, can't rely on them, they sell out their principles whenever they have a Republican President. Roosevelt and the Maine. Eisenhower and the Bay of Pigs. Lyndon Johnson and the Gulf of Tonkin. Nixon and bombing Cambodia, producing the Killing Fields, and Laos, under the guidance of Darth Kissinger. And Reagan, sending Rummy to Iran with a cake, saying hold off on releasing the hostages until after the election, invading poor innocent Grenada and bombing the Mental Hospital (strangely appropriate, for a Republican President), and supporting the War Criminal Ollie North and this merry band of child-killers, the Contras! And then Bush, all Bushes, Gulf Wars One and Two, really stupid things like invading Panama, invading Iraq, for no real reason. And loosing 2 Trillion dollars in cash in the process. Bad Americans! Untrustworthy Americans! No wonder everyone in the world is now thinking it is better to go with the Russians or the Chinese. Or even with a Brazilian, even though that hurts when the pull the wax off. E
Yeah, we have a long list of sins to answer for. Tell you what - find us a people who doesn't have their own sins to answer for, and we'll answer to them. I won't hold my breath waiting.
Maybe. He did it first, but I did it better. Or, if you want to go Biblical, "There are none faultless". The whole point is, there is nobody worthy of judging the rest of us. "X" group can pretend to be superior and virtuous, but every bit of human history says that if "X" suppressed group had the upper hand, they would be the suppressors, rather than the suppressed.
Yes, try. Try to do some good. But stop being so damned judgemental, because you ain't a helluva lot better than those you are judging. Just go do some good for SOMEBODY today, and stop worrying about everyone, everything, everywhere.
I'm already, and I say this completely objectively, well ahead of most people when it comes to how much good was done for others, especially considering how goddamn poor I am and always have been. It's gotten to the point I now have to cut back and be "normal" out of sheer survival. As to how Hell is going, you'll find out soon enough :) I told you to get that little murmur examined...
-- I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
So, what's with you and a heart murmur? Mine is fine - it's been with me for not quite 64 years now. Here today, gone tomorrow, it will come back to visit whenever it wants. They missed it during my enlistment physical, a corpsman found it a couple years later, the doctor he referred me to couldn't find it, and another corpsman found it two or three years later. No doctor ever found it during a DOT physical, but my family doctor was pretty sure he found it only a few years back - then he couldn't find it again.
Nothing to be concerned about, I probably wouldn't be me without it. Life it what it is, take it or leave it.
“You don’t get to say no to a congressional subpoena,” said Rep. Jim Himes (D-CT), who serves on the House Intelligence Committee, which is spearheading the impeachment inquiry. “That’s not a thing. That is a crime. He’s gonna show up, or he’s going to get fined, or he’s going to go to jail.”
I disagree. Pretty strongly, at that. Congress, and even individual congress critters, have the option of filing a suit in the judicial system. The legislative body has no (proper) authority to fine or imprison citizens of this nation.
You know I say this rhetorically, knowing full well this is a Mexican Standoff.
Goes back to the dead pool, who will take the fall and make the whole thing disappear?
For it to end peacefully, the prez could resign, in a huff, for the cameras, pay a small fine on his phony tax returns, and have a new show on NBC within 6 to 8 months. It will be the top rated show of all time.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
No, I expect his resigning to get it off the front page before people get too interested in investigating everybody else. Voters won't stop electing corrupt politicians for the foreseeable future.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:39PM
(2 children)
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:39PM (#908438)
Why would it get it off the front page? He could resign or even be impeached and will still get reelected in less than a year from then. He would have more time for campaigning.
His name keeps it on the front page. Take him out of the picture and people will go back to talking about baseball, and their lumbago and arthritis and prostate and of course, the weather.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:24AM
(1 child)
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:24AM (#908221)
Truly, you are an idiot, Runaway! Total, incorrigable, idiot. You are aware there is a jail in the basement of the Capitol? Are you aware of the powers of the Sergeant at Arms of the House of Representatives? Have you ever even read the Constitution that you allegedly swore to defend? Stupid, liar, scumbag, idiot, traitor to all that is American! Polack! Arkasasian! How can you be so ignorant, and still live? Next thing you will be telling us that the Congress cannot directly impeach the president, but has to go through the courts, and have the president's consent to be investigated? Stupid? President has no say in whether he is impeached, as any common criminal has no say in whether he is indicted. And the Congress, not the Courts, have full purview on matters of Presidential impeachment, the court have nothing to do with it, other than the Head Justice of the Supreme court presiding (not voting) on the trial by the Senate. No go back to Fox News, you idiot, and start working on your "Law degree from the Giuliani School of Law and Insanity". May it serve you well, if you are ever served sub poena. (See that? It is Latin for "under punishment". The House can issue demands, "under threat of punishment", so it follows directly they have the right to punish if such demands are ignored. God, you are such an idiot, Runaway! Does it ever dawn on you, just a little bit, how much you do not know?
Actually, no, I'm not aware that there is a jail in the basement. This blog sums up what I've learned about this "jail", or perhaps more properly, "guard station".
Impeachment? Impeachment of pretty much any public official does indeed lie within the proper authorities of the congress. Why do you even bring that up? Impeaching and imprisoning a person are two entirely different things. You are the one who should go back to Fox News, because you're failing on your own here.
Meanwhile, if I am sub poena'd by congress, I will probably ignore them. If I take those assholes more than half seriously - well - let's just say that I will almost certainly not comply. Do you understand "not comply"? Here's a list of cool videos - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sheriff+will+not+comply [youtube.com] This may be the coolest out of that list - the woman sat in front of congress, and flat out TOLD THEM to their faces, "I will not comply!"
I don't think Ms. Muller is living in the basement of the capital building today. If she were, then some of us would probably be busy watering the Tree of Liberty.
Congressional Subpoenas are valid, have survived their day in court, and Congress has the ability to find people who don't comply in contempt of congress. Historically they absolutely did handle penalizing contempt themselves, more recently they have tended to rely on a criminal charge of contempt of congress and the DOJ, but they still have that power.
In theory, maybe, they have that "power". However, I have been in contempt of every congress since I've turned my attention to politics. And, congress has proven impotent to do anything about that contempt.
Now whether they will exercise that power directly or even refer the case to the DoJ is another matter, I await that turn of events with baited breath.
As for the reverse, I suspect they hold as little value in your contempt as the rest of us.
And yes, I mindlessly used a malapropism there because I am in the habit of doing so, I know I have the sense of humor of a four year old. No need to point it out.
Nope, the Party still rules. They just put the red nose on the next guy in line. Don't believe me? Look at Mexico. President gets one term, the party ruled for over 70 years. Our democrat/republican monolith has ruled for over 150. Term limits have to happen on election day. The people have to be allowed to choose for themselves how much corruption they want.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
Why is it important that people be allowed to choose how much corruption they want? Don't laws against corruption impede the ability of people to choose it? Would eliminating those laws transfer more power to the voters?
The party is the issue. The politician serves the party, or he does not receive the nomination while the voters play along.
The voters already have the ability to nominate anyone outside the party system. They just have to want to do it. The first cycle will be more difficult than the subsequent ones. The law isn't making a difference. They are designed by the people that need to be voted out.
The real problem is the voter. They always vote for the Party that *brings home the bacon*. All that corruption is highly rewarded. The individual politician is inconsequential and disposable.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
You can't vote people out, you can only vote different people in. Term limits facilitate this. You want people who aren't party tools to be voted in? Well, now you are jumping ahead. First let's consider whether having a greater turnover increases the costs to special interests to buy politicians, and whether it increases the chances of a politician with fewer owners to slip through. Legislators with longer tenure, with positions on more committees, generally get more corporate cash, don't they?
People vote for the party because the TV told them that this is the only legitimate choice, only the party can win, and if you don't vote for the winner you must be a loser. When we put in term limits, we should break up the corporate media oligopoly as well.
The more I think about it, the more I think the best solution is random selection.
Make serving in Congress like jury duty. No parties, no primaries, no elections. No thought of a second term. Just show up and do your duty and go home.
-- If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
Yep, it would be like winning the lottery. Hookers and blow along with a promise of a good paying job to replace the one that you lost while serving and all you have to do is follow to some advice about something you don't really understand.
Not really, and I have thought about it as on one level it does seem like a great idea, or perhaps one house drafted and one elected would be better. The big problems are unqualified people, who on average aren't really intelligent making complex decisions and spending a good part of several years away from your life being a problem for many. Up here, Trudeau has been experimenting with appointing non-politicians to the Senate (traditionally it is patronage appointments), in most ways its been an improvement but recently I heard an article on the problems with simply changing the food guide to something healthier. All these new Senators got overwhelmed with lobbyists making arguments about why it was bad, bad for the dairy farmers to not tell people to drink a litre of milk a day, bad for the beef farmers for similar reasons and so on, as well as the basic arguments about is it really healthier not to drink milk etc.
"The big problems are unqualified people, who on average aren't really intelligent making complex decisions and spending a good part of several years away from your life being a problem for many."
Oh indeed. Horrible idea from that point of view.
But what we're doing seems to be working out even worse than that. :(
"All these new Senators got overwhelmed with lobbyists making arguments about why it was bad, bad for the dairy farmers to not tell people to drink a litre of milk a day, bad for the beef farmers for similar reasons and so on, as well as the basic arguments about is it really healthier not to drink milk etc."
This is one of the big problems with socialized medicine, in my view. Even the basic scientific facts become political footballs. How can you trust the research, when it's being funded and carried out by people who have strong ulterior motives? Basic personal choices become political footballs. It becomes unimaginable that one mind ones own business and let other people eat what they want to eat.
-- If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:08AM
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:08AM (#908219)
Bigger problem with socialised medicine: what happens to policies and formularies when people you don't like get their turn at the wheel.
Feel pro-choice? Better hope that the pro-lifers aren't in charge with a promise never to spend tax dollars on abortions.
How 'bout that medical mary-jane? Not with drug warriors in charge.
Of course, then there's the horse-trading about who actually gets to pay for it. Check what happened in Canada, with fat chunks of the budget getting dumped off the federal ledger - only to land with the provinces because of no good reason. No, wait, there was an excellent reason: they wanted to hide how much it was costing the nation, especially while fostering fat waiting lists for things like radiological tools.
Then you get all the arguments about how much to pay pharmaceutical companies. Look at what happened in India and South Africa with those. They get all the drugs ... oh, no, wait, they don't. Often companies simply sit on their hands rather than even file paperwork to sell drugs that they won't be able to sell at a price that makes it worth the hassle. Of course, they could totally nationalise the industry and the patents, but the last several decades have highlighted a few problems with that theory as well.
It's all nice and neat in theory. Practice is a different beast.
I don't think it is associated with socialized medicine as in even a private medical system, the government has an interest in a healthy population and will put out guides on things like nutrition as well as regulate unhealthy stuff. The food guide thing was just a simple example that I recently heard. Almost every law they look at comes with a mess of lobbyists and often the decisions to be made have no simple answer and sometimes all the answers are bad. At least the food guide is just advice.
How about holding a vote at the end of each term instead of the beginning. To determine whether the outgoing official needs to be tarred and feathered or not. (Or something less likely to bring out one's inner sadist)
Much like a jury elects a foreman, randomly select a group of 12 people and isolate them in a room until they have a 10/12ths majority vote on which one of them has to go to Washington for 2/4/6 years. You can't dodge the jury duty, but you can decline the job of being congressperson. Should eliminate the select-a-random-moron problem.
-- If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
I like that. The idea is getting better all the time. But I wonder if allowing people to decline leaves a very shallow pool of nitwits. The best people are likely to decline, that's why I recommend conscription. "Serve your country", then it's back to the farm.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
If in a random group of twelve you consistently can't find one who is both willing and reasonably able then you have a much bigger problem than selecting your leaders. Sure it will happen occasionally just due to chance, but so long as the vast majority are ok you can handle them. It's not the occasional idiot, it's organised groups of them that are dangerous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesSRfXqS1Q [youtube.com]
-- If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
Well, I see no problem in trying to shame the unwilling into service if they appeared well qualified. You know, just give them "the look" [dailymotion.com]. Heh, to be qualified, you gotta be willing, eh? What is becoming very evident is that even the crudest system will be less problematic than majority mob rule which has not deviated from the well worn path of past tragedy.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
Hookers and blow along with a promise of a good paying job to replace the one that you lost while serving and all you have to do is follow to some advice about something you don't really understand.
Not at all. They still have to go through basic combat training at Parris Island. And once back in D.C. they will live in regular barracks with the other critters, eat in the mess hall, and shit in the latrine, which they will have to clean themselves.
Did we say Jury duty? No, let's make them into Marines dammit! Teach 'em some discipline... I guarantee there will be no time for hookers and blow, that's for the officers (lifers in the supreme court)
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
The more I think about it, the more I think the best solution is random selection.
:-) You were too easy. We got some hardcores here that will never give up their team. Makes 'em feel close to the power, like they got their own Terminator. Funny, some Terminator! She can't even serve up papers without a debate.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
When we put in term limits, we should break up the corporate media oligopoly as well.
It will not happen that way, as I said the party makes the rules and the voters play along. Nothing can change until the voters take their own initiative to vote for something else.
But I am curious, what exactly is your first step to imposing term limits? Seems to me you gotta change the law, and you know who writes that. It was easy to do for president. Think you will convince congress to kill a golden goose?
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
Think you will convince congress to kill a golden goose?
I won't be convincing them of anything, since I don't have a billion dollars. If somebody who has a billion dollars wants to take up the idea, who knows?
If somebody who has a billion dollars wants to take up the idea, who knows?
Cui bono? A billionaire will have his claws in the party before he would do such a thing. It cannot work.
The voters just have to take control of themselves and not believe all the bullshit on the TV. What they do now is try to vote themselves a piece of the action, tax cuts and handouts. The politicians only reflect what's in their hearts and minds. Failure to account for the voters that give them their power is just wagging the dog.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
You can't vote people out, you can only vote different people in.
That's strange, the implication isn't clear? You vote the old guy out by voting a new one in?
First let's consider whether having a greater turnover increases the costs to special interests to buy politicians
They contract the party's services, not the politician's. The politician is a sales drone. All he has to do is win, then he goes to the local speakeasy to receive his orders.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
That's strange, the implication isn't clear? You vote the old guy out by voting a new one in?
Considering how much more talk there is about which politicians should be removed than there is about who should take over, I really have to wonder whether some people understand that one thing requires the other.
They contract the party's services, not the politician's.
Pols have been known to defy the party on occasion. The party can't exactly toss them out at the press of a button either, they have to wait until election year and sponsor a challenger.
Pols have been known to defy the party on occasion. The party can't exactly toss them out at the press of a button either, they have to wait until election year and sponsor a challenger.
Here, they'll toss them out of the party really quick for defying the party. The politician continues sitting as an independent and has a hell of a time getting reelected as well as losing a lot of perks that come with being a member of an official party.
The party can't exactly toss them out at the press of a button either, they have to wait until election year and sponsor a challenger.
That's exactly what they did. They sponsored the more compliant incumbent (who even left the party) who challenged the defiant primary winner. If Lieberman didn't run, the Party would have just shifted its support to the republican. The voters let the party pick the winners.
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
The CoC for Soylentils is, no more than one journal per week, preferably only one per month. Now, you may be saying, where is this written down? Well, it is not. But you will do well to notice who does journals, and how often they do them, and what they do them on, an how they are received by their fellow Soylentils.
Case in point: Raving idiots like Runaway1943 and Takyon post quite frequently. No one knows why, but it seem to have to do with what they are interested in that no one else is interested in, otherwise they would have made a submission to the queue. Now, Taky is an ed, so when he journals, we know we are getting something he does not think his fellow eds would approve for the Front Page. Fair enough. Runaway, just for an example of an idiot, posts with intent to trigger what he imagines are . . . OK, I have no idea who Runaway imagines he is "triggering", other than himself, but "auto-triggering" just made it into the The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, [wikipedia.org] where they have dropped "homosexuals", but added "right-wing nut-job terrorists".
So the point is, FistulaKracken, is that you are journaling far too often to be effective. We get that you are a Trump shill, and the pain of impeachment may be more than you can bear, but exposing your anguish in a journal will not help you, and certainly does not help your fellow Soylentils. So, please, Shut the Fuck Up, Please?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:27AM
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:27AM (#908213)
Only recently has he realized how ceiminal Trump is. Before that he spent most of his time pushing apathy towards anything from the two parties while providing nothing of substance as an alternative, just vague "don't vote for either party" which is a typical ploy to limit the centrist types. Whenever Trump's crimes were mentioned he'd fall back on the ridiculous "where's the evidence" line even though his obstruction and collusion were done in plain sight. Now Trump's crimes are too apparent so he has switched tracks to pushing any candidate but Warren and Sanders.
In short he is a total shill trying to influence US elections. Or just a misguided arrogant libertarian. So hard to tell these days, but his flip flopping makes me lean towards shill as they need to remain relevant during changing political climates.
Just how far gone do you have to be to think he's a trumpster?
Pretty far gone. Gone far enough to have read his posts. The False Equivalency is strong with this one. He is a Trump supporter. He denies it, but then what sane person would not do that, at this point? TMB says he's not. Runaway says he's an Interdependant. VLM is a racist neo-nazi. Khallow is down at the Chamber of Commerce again, offering his "services". See? This is how it goes.
All the Republicans I knew became "conservatives" after "W" screwed the pooch with invading Iraq. So not hard to support Trump with an equal lack of principles and spine.
Ol' beaky's problem is a combination of ADHD, sociopathy, and deep, deep denial. His life consists of fishing, whacking off, and sometimes work, and he's deluded himself into thinking he won some sort of life lottery. This delusion is so central to his psyche that everything, everything, that could possibly threaten even the smallest facet of it, gets shit on.
-- I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
Ah, again you fail with your smelly team spirit, you poor naive soul. The equivalency is NOT false! Power and corruption are joined at the hips, just like your "two" parties. You cannot get to their level without a big steaming heap of corruption. It just doesn't happen.
Man! you guys are fun to watch!
-- La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:39PM (15 children)
Given who's blinking, maybe the Democrat leadership agrees.
Much the same (that is, nothing) happened when the Obama administration ignored Republican subpoenas. Guess someone needs to put teeth into these things. But I get the sense that I shouldn't hold my breath on that.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday October 16 2019, @10:58PM (14 children)
Given who's blinking, maybe the Democrat leadership agrees.
They have to be very careful not to ensnare themselves. It's a very delicate situation.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 17 2019, @12:01AM (13 children)
They can't. There are elements of the Democratic machine--I am thinking the DNC and the corporate wing here--who are just as filthy as the Republicans and may well have been wallowing in the same mudhole. To Hell with every last one of them. One of the other posters here has a sig that more or less reads "Do justice and let the world crumble," and I agree with my entire being.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:21AM (11 children)
Yeah well, who do you think is going to crumble? Them, our "lords and masters"? Please! Don't delude yourself. Nothing will make them happier than to see us kill each other down to around a billion or so.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:38AM (10 children)
Fiat iustica, ruat coelum!
Pansy ass Americans. Genocided you way to take land from people decimated by diseases you brought, getting involved in wars where you allies have already done the brunt of the work (WWI, WWII), and attacking country whose air power you destroyed, while supporting the Kurds, and encouraging the Marsh Arabs to revolt, but not coming to save them when they did, and now, at long last, the Kurds suffer the same fate. Americans! Can't trust them, can't rely on them, they sell out their principles whenever they have a Republican President. Roosevelt and the Maine. Eisenhower and the Bay of Pigs. Lyndon Johnson and the Gulf of Tonkin. Nixon and bombing Cambodia, producing the Killing Fields, and Laos, under the guidance of Darth Kissinger. And Reagan, sending Rummy to Iran with a cake, saying hold off on releasing the hostages until after the election, invading poor innocent Grenada and bombing the Mental Hospital (strangely appropriate, for a Republican President), and supporting the War Criminal Ollie North and this merry band of child-killers, the Contras! And then Bush, all Bushes, Gulf Wars One and Two, really stupid things like invading Panama, invading Iraq, for no real reason. And loosing 2 Trillion dollars in cash in the process. Bad Americans! Untrustworthy Americans! No wonder everyone in the world is now thinking it is better to go with the Russians or the Chinese. Or even with a Brazilian, even though that hurts when the pull the wax off.
E
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:43PM (9 children)
*yawn*
Yeah, we have a long list of sins to answer for. Tell you what - find us a people who doesn't have their own sins to answer for, and we'll answer to them. I won't hold my breath waiting.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 17 2019, @11:00PM (8 children)
"But MooooOOOOooOOOOOooommmMM, he did it firrrrrrrrrst!"
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 17 2019, @11:29PM (7 children)
Maybe. He did it first, but I did it better. Or, if you want to go Biblical, "There are none faultless". The whole point is, there is nobody worthy of judging the rest of us. "X" group can pretend to be superior and virtuous, but every bit of human history says that if "X" suppressed group had the upper hand, they would be the suppressors, rather than the suppressed.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 18 2019, @12:51AM (6 children)
So no one should even try then? The Nirvana Fallacy ("nevermind") in action?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 18 2019, @04:24AM (2 children)
(Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday October 19 2019, @12:21AM (1 child)
Oh, lots of things. In a small way, dropping you off a cliff would make the world better, for example :)
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 22 2019, @08:59PM
Sure.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday October 18 2019, @02:29PM (2 children)
Yes, try. Try to do some good. But stop being so damned judgemental, because you ain't a helluva lot better than those you are judging. Just go do some good for SOMEBODY today, and stop worrying about everyone, everything, everywhere.
How's that whole "hell" thing going?
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday October 19 2019, @12:25AM (1 child)
I'm already, and I say this completely objectively, well ahead of most people when it comes to how much good was done for others, especially considering how goddamn poor I am and always have been. It's gotten to the point I now have to cut back and be "normal" out of sheer survival. As to how Hell is going, you'll find out soon enough :) I told you to get that little murmur examined...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday October 19 2019, @01:33PM
So, what's with you and a heart murmur? Mine is fine - it's been with me for not quite 64 years now. Here today, gone tomorrow, it will come back to visit whenever it wants. They missed it during my enlistment physical, a corpsman found it a couple years later, the doctor he referred me to couldn't find it, and another corpsman found it two or three years later. No doctor ever found it during a DOT physical, but my family doctor was pretty sure he found it only a few years back - then he couldn't find it again.
Nothing to be concerned about, I probably wouldn't be me without it. Life it what it is, take it or leave it.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:39AM
There is no meaningful difference between the two. Call them republicrats.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 16 2019, @11:53PM (14 children)
I disagree. Pretty strongly, at that. Congress, and even individual congress critters, have the option of filing a suit in the judicial system. The legislative body has no (proper) authority to fine or imprison citizens of this nation.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @12:29AM
lol
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:33AM (6 children)
If that's the procedure, fine. But do it!
You know I say this rhetorically, knowing full well this is a Mexican Standoff.
Goes back to the dead pool, who will take the fall and make the whole thing disappear?
For it to end peacefully, the prez could resign, in a huff, for the cameras, pay a small fine on his phony tax returns, and have a new show on NBC within 6 to 8 months. It will be the top rated show of all time.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:50AM (5 children)
You think Trump resigning is going to end corruption in DC?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:49AM (4 children)
No, I expect his resigning to get it off the front page before people get too interested in investigating everybody else. Voters won't stop electing corrupt politicians for the foreseeable future.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:39PM (2 children)
Why would it get it off the front page? He could resign or even be impeached and will still get reelected in less than a year from then. He would have more time for campaigning.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:14PM (1 child)
His name keeps it on the front page. Take him out of the picture and people will go back to talking about baseball, and their lumbago and arthritis and prostate and of course, the weather.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:20PM
Did you even read the post? That dosn't mean the end of his 2020 campaign. It gives him more time to devote to it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 21 2019, @12:47AM
Quit Pro Quo?
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:24AM (1 child)
Truly, you are an idiot, Runaway! Total, incorrigable, idiot. You are aware there is a jail in the basement of the Capitol? Are you aware of the powers of the Sergeant at Arms of the House of Representatives? Have you ever even read the Constitution that you allegedly swore to defend? Stupid, liar, scumbag, idiot, traitor to all that is American! Polack! Arkasasian! How can you be so ignorant, and still live? Next thing you will be telling us that the Congress cannot directly impeach the president, but has to go through the courts, and have the president's consent to be investigated? Stupid? President has no say in whether he is impeached, as any common criminal has no say in whether he is indicted. And the Congress, not the Courts, have full purview on matters of Presidential impeachment, the court have nothing to do with it, other than the Head Justice of the Supreme court presiding (not voting) on the trial by the Senate. No go back to Fox News, you idiot, and start working on your "Law degree from the Giuliani School of Law and Insanity". May it serve you well, if you are ever served sub poena. (See that? It is Latin for "under punishment". The House can issue demands, "under threat of punishment", so it follows directly they have the right to punish if such demands are ignored. God, you are such an idiot, Runaway! Does it ever dawn on you, just a little bit, how much you do not know?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 17 2019, @01:40PM
Actually, no, I'm not aware that there is a jail in the basement. This blog sums up what I've learned about this "jail", or perhaps more properly, "guard station".
https://blog.popvox.com/2012/06/26/no-capitol-jail/ [popvox.com]
Impeachment? Impeachment of pretty much any public official does indeed lie within the proper authorities of the congress. Why do you even bring that up? Impeaching and imprisoning a person are two entirely different things. You are the one who should go back to Fox News, because you're failing on your own here.
Meanwhile, if I am sub poena'd by congress, I will probably ignore them. If I take those assholes more than half seriously - well - let's just say that I will almost certainly not comply. Do you understand "not comply"? Here's a list of cool videos - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sheriff+will+not+comply [youtube.com] This may be the coolest out of that list - the woman sat in front of congress, and flat out TOLD THEM to their faces, "I will not comply!"
I don't think Ms. Muller is living in the basement of the capital building today. If she were, then some of us would probably be busy watering the Tree of Liberty.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2) by insanumingenium on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:49PM (3 children)
That is flat untrue.
Congressional Subpoenas are valid, have survived their day in court, and Congress has the ability to find people who don't comply in contempt of congress. Historically they absolutely did handle penalizing contempt themselves, more recently they have tended to rely on a criminal charge of contempt of congress and the DOJ, but they still have that power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:32PM (2 children)
In theory, maybe, they have that "power". However, I have been in contempt of every congress since I've turned my attention to politics. And, congress has proven impotent to do anything about that contempt.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2) by insanumingenium on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:15PM (1 child)
Not theory, fact.
Now whether they will exercise that power directly or even refer the case to the DoJ is another matter, I await that turn of events with baited breath.
As for the reverse, I suspect they hold as little value in your contempt as the rest of us.
(Score: 2) by insanumingenium on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:50PM
And yes, I mindlessly used a malapropism there because I am in the habit of doing so, I know I have the sense of humor of a four year old. No need to point it out.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:10AM (26 children)
guaranteed to lower reelection rates
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:20AM (25 children)
Nope, the Party still rules. They just put the red nose on the next guy in line. Don't believe me? Look at Mexico. President gets one term, the party ruled for over 70 years. Our democrat/republican monolith has ruled for over 150. Term limits have to happen on election day. The people have to be allowed to choose for themselves how much corruption they want.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:06AM (24 children)
The party is a separate (while related) problem.
Why is it important that people be allowed to choose how much corruption they want? Don't laws against corruption impede the ability of people to choose it? Would eliminating those laws transfer more power to the voters?
(Score: 0, Troll) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @04:30AM (23 children)
The party is the issue. The politician serves the party, or he does not receive the nomination while the voters play along.
The voters already have the ability to nominate anyone outside the party system. They just have to want to do it. The first cycle will be more difficult than the subsequent ones. The law isn't making a difference. They are designed by the people that need to be voted out.
The real problem is the voter. They always vote for the Party that *brings home the bacon*. All that corruption is highly rewarded. The individual politician is inconsequential and disposable.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday October 17 2019, @05:13AM (22 children)
You can't vote people out, you can only vote different people in. Term limits facilitate this. You want people who aren't party tools to be voted in? Well, now you are jumping ahead. First let's consider whether having a greater turnover increases the costs to special interests to buy politicians, and whether it increases the chances of a politician with fewer owners to slip through. Legislators with longer tenure, with positions on more committees, generally get more corporate cash, don't they?
People vote for the party because the TV told them that this is the only legitimate choice, only the party can win, and if you don't vote for the winner you must be a loser. When we put in term limits, we should break up the corporate media oligopoly as well.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday October 17 2019, @05:38AM (13 children)
Make serving in Congress like jury duty. No parties, no primaries, no elections. No thought of a second term. Just show up and do your duty and go home.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Touché) by dry on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:05AM (11 children)
Yep, it would be like winning the lottery. Hookers and blow along with a promise of a good paying job to replace the one that you lost while serving and all you have to do is follow to some advice about something you don't really understand.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:12AM (9 children)
Still, it solves half the problem in one stroke. Can't you figure out a way to solve most of the rest?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:40AM (3 children)
Not really, and I have thought about it as on one level it does seem like a great idea, or perhaps one house drafted and one elected would be better. The big problems are unqualified people, who on average aren't really intelligent making complex decisions and spending a good part of several years away from your life being a problem for many.
Up here, Trudeau has been experimenting with appointing non-politicians to the Senate (traditionally it is patronage appointments), in most ways its been an improvement but recently I heard an article on the problems with simply changing the food guide to something healthier. All these new Senators got overwhelmed with lobbyists making arguments about why it was bad, bad for the dairy farmers to not tell people to drink a litre of milk a day, bad for the beef farmers for similar reasons and so on, as well as the basic arguments about is it really healthier not to drink milk etc.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:53AM (2 children)
Oh indeed. Horrible idea from that point of view.
But what we're doing seems to be working out even worse than that. :(
"All these new Senators got overwhelmed with lobbyists making arguments about why it was bad, bad for the dairy farmers to not tell people to drink a litre of milk a day, bad for the beef farmers for similar reasons and so on, as well as the basic arguments about is it really healthier not to drink milk etc."
This is one of the big problems with socialized medicine, in my view. Even the basic scientific facts become political footballs. How can you trust the research, when it's being funded and carried out by people who have strong ulterior motives? Basic personal choices become political footballs. It becomes unimaginable that one mind ones own business and let other people eat what they want to eat.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:08AM
Bigger problem with socialised medicine: what happens to policies and formularies when people you don't like get their turn at the wheel.
Feel pro-choice? Better hope that the pro-lifers aren't in charge with a promise never to spend tax dollars on abortions.
How 'bout that medical mary-jane? Not with drug warriors in charge.
Of course, then there's the horse-trading about who actually gets to pay for it. Check what happened in Canada, with fat chunks of the budget getting dumped off the federal ledger - only to land with the provinces because of no good reason. No, wait, there was an excellent reason: they wanted to hide how much it was costing the nation, especially while fostering fat waiting lists for things like radiological tools.
Then you get all the arguments about how much to pay pharmaceutical companies. Look at what happened in India and South Africa with those. They get all the drugs ... oh, no, wait, they don't. Often companies simply sit on their hands rather than even file paperwork to sell drugs that they won't be able to sell at a price that makes it worth the hassle. Of course, they could totally nationalise the industry and the patents, but the last several decades have highlighted a few problems with that theory as well.
It's all nice and neat in theory. Practice is a different beast.
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:09PM
I don't think it is associated with socialized medicine as in even a private medical system, the government has an interest in a healthy population and will put out guides on things like nutrition as well as regulate unhealthy stuff. The food guide thing was just a simple example that I recently heard. Almost every law they look at comes with a mess of lobbyists and often the decisions to be made have no simple answer and sometimes all the answers are bad. At least the food guide is just advice.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:12PM
How about holding a vote at the end of each term instead of the beginning. To determine whether the outgoing official needs to be tarred and feathered or not. (Or something less likely to bring out one's inner sadist)
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Thursday October 17 2019, @09:26PM (3 children)
Much like a jury elects a foreman, randomly select a group of 12 people and isolate them in a room until they have a 10/12ths majority vote on which one of them has to go to Washington for 2/4/6 years. You can't dodge the jury duty, but you can decline the job of being congressperson. Should eliminate the select-a-random-moron problem.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @09:45PM (2 children)
I like that. The idea is getting better all the time. But I wonder if allowing people to decline leaves a very shallow pool of nitwits. The best people are likely to decline, that's why I recommend conscription. "Serve your country", then it's back to the farm.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Thursday October 17 2019, @11:32PM (1 child)
If in a random group of twelve you consistently can't find one who is both willing and reasonably able then you have a much bigger problem than selecting your leaders. Sure it will happen occasionally just due to chance, but so long as the vast majority are ok you can handle them. It's not the occasional idiot, it's organised groups of them that are dangerous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesSRfXqS1Q [youtube.com]
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @11:52PM
Well, I see no problem in trying to shame the unwilling into service if they appeared well qualified. You know, just give them "the look" [dailymotion.com]. Heh, to be qualified, you gotta be willing, eh? What is becoming very evident is that even the crudest system will be less problematic than majority mob rule which has not deviated from the well worn path of past tragedy.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:30AM
Hookers and blow along with a promise of a good paying job to replace the one that you lost while serving and all you have to do is follow to some advice about something you don't really understand.
Not at all. They still have to go through basic combat training at Parris Island. And once back in D.C. they will live in regular barracks with the other critters, eat in the mess hall, and shit in the latrine, which they will have to clean themselves.
Did we say Jury duty? No, let's make them into Marines dammit! Teach 'em some discipline... I guarantee there will be no time for hookers and blow, that's for the officers (lifers in the supreme court)
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:06AM
The more I think about it, the more I think the best solution is random selection.
:-) You were too easy. We got some hardcores here that will never give up their team. Makes 'em feel close to the power, like they got their own Terminator. Funny, some Terminator! She can't even serve up papers without a debate.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:01AM (2 children)
When we put in term limits, we should break up the corporate media oligopoly as well.
It will not happen that way, as I said the party makes the rules and the voters play along. Nothing can change until the voters take their own initiative to vote for something else.
But I am curious, what exactly is your first step to imposing term limits? Seems to me you gotta change the law, and you know who writes that. It was easy to do for president. Think you will convince congress to kill a golden goose?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:26PM (1 child)
I won't be convincing them of anything, since I don't have a billion dollars. If somebody who has a billion dollars wants to take up the idea, who knows?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:49PM
If somebody who has a billion dollars wants to take up the idea, who knows?
Cui bono? A billionaire will have his claws in the party before he would do such a thing. It cannot work.
The voters just have to take control of themselves and not believe all the bullshit on the TV. What they do now is try to vote themselves a piece of the action, tax cuts and handouts. The politicians only reflect what's in their hearts and minds. Failure to account for the voters that give them their power is just wagging the dog.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:19AM (4 children)
Sorry for the second reply:
You can't vote people out, you can only vote different people in.
That's strange, the implication isn't clear? You vote the old guy out by voting a new one in?
First let's consider whether having a greater turnover increases the costs to special interests to buy politicians
They contract the party's services, not the politician's. The politician is a sales drone. All he has to do is win, then he goes to the local speakeasy to receive his orders.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:37PM (3 children)
Considering how much more talk there is about which politicians should be removed than there is about who should take over, I really have to wonder whether some people understand that one thing requires the other.
Pols have been known to defy the party on occasion. The party can't exactly toss them out at the press of a button either, they have to wait until election year and sponsor a challenger.
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday October 17 2019, @03:15PM
Here, they'll toss them out of the party really quick for defying the party. The politician continues sitting as an independent and has a hell of a time getting reelected as well as losing a lot of perks that come with being a member of an official party.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:34PM
I really have to wonder whether some people understand that one thing requires the other.
That's partly my point with term limits. You know where it has to start, in the legislature. I wish people would think it through.
Every little thing boils down to the voters themselves. To fix the process, there is where we have to start.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @10:57PM
Pols have been known to defy the party on occasion.
Yes, and see what happens to them [latimes.com].
The party can't exactly toss them out at the press of a button either, they have to wait until election year and sponsor a challenger.
That's exactly what they did. They sponsored the more compliant incumbent (who even left the party) who challenged the defiant primary winner. If Lieberman didn't run, the Party would have just shifted its support to the republican. The voters let the party pick the winners.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Informative) by aristarchus on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:53AM (8 children)
The CoC for Soylentils is, no more than one journal per week, preferably only one per month. Now, you may be saying, where is this written down? Well, it is not. But you will do well to notice who does journals, and how often they do them, and what they do them on, an how they are received by their fellow Soylentils.
Case in point: Raving idiots like Runaway1943 and Takyon post quite frequently. No one knows why, but it seem to have to do with what they are interested in that no one else is interested in, otherwise they would have made a submission to the queue. Now, Taky is an ed, so when he journals, we know we are getting something he does not think his fellow eds would approve for the Front Page. Fair enough. Runaway, just for an example of an idiot, posts with intent to trigger what he imagines are . . . OK, I have no idea who Runaway imagines he is "triggering", other than himself, but "auto-triggering" just made it into the The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, [wikipedia.org] where they have dropped "homosexuals", but added "right-wing nut-job terrorists".
So the point is, FistulaKracken, is that you are journaling far too often to be effective. We get that you are a Trump shill, and the pain of impeachment may be more than you can bear, but exposing your anguish in a journal will not help you, and certainly does not help your fellow Soylentils. So, please, Shut the Fuck Up, Please?
(Score: 1) by Arik on Thursday October 17 2019, @06:56AM (6 children)
Just how far gone do you have to be to think he's a trumpster?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:27AM
Only recently has he realized how ceiminal Trump is. Before that he spent most of his time pushing apathy towards anything from the two parties while providing nothing of substance as an alternative, just vague "don't vote for either party" which is a typical ploy to limit the centrist types. Whenever Trump's crimes were mentioned he'd fall back on the ridiculous "where's the evidence" line even though his obstruction and collusion were done in plain sight. Now Trump's crimes are too apparent so he has switched tracks to pushing any candidate but Warren and Sanders.
In short he is a total shill trying to influence US elections. Or just a misguided arrogant libertarian. So hard to tell these days, but his flip flopping makes me lean towards shill as they need to remain relevant during changing political climates.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday October 17 2019, @08:32AM (4 children)
Pretty far gone. Gone far enough to have read his posts. The False Equivalency is strong with this one. He is a Trump supporter. He denies it, but then what sane person would not do that, at this point? TMB says he's not. Runaway says he's an Interdependant. VLM is a racist neo-nazi. Khallow is down at the Chamber of Commerce again, offering his "services". See? This is how it goes.
All the Republicans I knew became "conservatives" after "W" screwed the pooch with invading Iraq. So not hard to support Trump with an equal lack of principles and spine.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @02:44PM (1 child)
Carrion boy and perpetual teen nut are really annoying with their hypocritical denials.
"The prez is an idiot but ackshuaaaaallly...."
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 17 2019, @11:04PM
Ol' beaky's problem is a combination of ADHD, sociopathy, and deep, deep denial. His life consists of fishing, whacking off, and sometimes work, and he's deluded himself into thinking he won some sort of life lottery. This delusion is so central to his psyche that everything, everything, that could possibly threaten even the smallest facet of it, gets shit on.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Troll) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:02PM (1 child)
Ah, again you fail with your smelly team spirit, you poor naive soul. The equivalency is NOT false! Power and corruption are joined at the hips, just like your "two" parties. You cannot get to their level without a big steaming heap of corruption. It just doesn't happen.
Man! you guys are fun to watch!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @09:00PM
*sigh* down-mods are so cowardly... Ah well. What else can be expected from cowards? I can only grant that they do clarify many things.
So, I offer gratitude.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:06AM
Hey mellow out, man! [youtube.com]
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @05:58PM (1 child)
the # of comments before this was posted
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17 2019, @07:06PM
Yeah, life's a real bitch, ain't it?