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Submitted via IRC for Runaway1956
Tim Berners-Lee's plan to 'save the web' has been formally launched today and is backed by more than 150 organizations, including Facebook, Google, and Microsoft.
The inventor of the World Wide Web explained back in March his reasons for wanting a 'contract for the web'...
It's 30 years today since Tim Berners-Lee submitted a proposal for what would become the World Wide Web [and] said that the 30th anniversary was a time to reflect on both the positives and negatives [...]
"I think it's been a force for good for the first 15 [years], and right now it's really in the balance. I'm very concerned about nastiness and misinformation spreading. I think with a mid-course correction, the 'contract for the web' is about: let's all stop this downward plunge to a dysfunctional future."
Source: https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/25/save-the-web/
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:51AM (12 children)
Would it kill you to say something concrete in the summary? Save the web? Contract? That like if a bull took a dump?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Arik on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:04AM (11 children)
Governments will
Principle 1 — Ensure everyone can connect to the internet
Principle 2 — Keep all of the internet available, all of the time
Principle 3 — Respect and protect people’s fundamental online privacy and data rights
Companies will
Principle 4 — Make the internet affordable and accessible to everyone
Principle 5 — Respect and protect people’s privacy and personal data to build online trust
Principle 6 — Develop technologies that support the best in humanity and challenge the worst
Citizens will
Principle 7 — Be creators and collaborators on the web
Principle 8 — Build strong communities that respect civil discourse and human dignity
Principle 9 — Fight for the web
Generic and not particularly well thought-out aspirational ethical standards arriving a bit late. Not Sir B-Lee's fault that, really, but Facebook, Google, and Microsoft?
Shame on you for thinking we're dumb enough to credit your bloviations.
2, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9 won't be tolerated. See the pattern?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by coolgopher on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:09AM (5 children)
Ahahahhahahahahahahahaha....
Wait. This wasn't meant as a joke?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:42AM (3 children)
Let me elaborate, because I agree with what you said, just have more detail about it:
Yeah, no. Fuck you Globalist shitbags.
Which means in practice that they will cater to the ADL's interpretation of "safe and welcome," which means that they really don't want freedom of speech or any other kind of free speech that could lead to a "Hillary Losing" situation again.
Yeah, no. If these fuckers really believed in the true spirit of freedom of speech, then they'd be advocating for everybody to keep their hands the fuck off the 'net rather than trying to micromanage it. I guess the globalists have a lot of blackmail on these so-called "free-speech purists" and are leveraging it against them, and by extension, against the rest of us.
Yeah no. You shithead cocksuckers aren't fooling the public-at-large much less those of us calling bullshit on shams run by globalists masquerading as political parties. We will win, you will lose. Fuck you. You aren't fooling anybody. Nobody believes the "Russian hacker" narrative and the more you Jew dipshits try to publicly subvert our democratic process, the more obvious it becomes. Prepare your anus.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @03:15PM
Ah, the not even attempting troll humor version of EF. Back on your meds!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:37PM
You're sounding stupid. Again.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:18PM
tim berniers lee is a stupid fucking douche. fuck all the bolshevik rats who sign this shit.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by acid andy on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:39AM
Yeah, exactly. You totally beat me to it.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:48AM (4 children)
6 is a no-go unless you can get humanity to agree upon what our best and worst are.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday November 26 2019, @12:59PM (3 children)
Our best: people with lotsa money.
Our worst: people who have no money to sustain consumption. They are job destroyers and no longer contribute with more money to their bests - how could the latter become better?
(large grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday November 26 2019, @01:38PM (2 children)
Fish more, duh.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Arik on Thursday November 28 2019, @05:08PM (1 child)
Teach a man to fish, and he'll drink beer and tell lies to the end of his days.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday November 28 2019, @06:42PM
Truth. Entertaining lies though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:05AM (4 children)
This is the same Tim Berners-Lee that endorsed DRM in web browsers a while back, right? Now he is talking about "saving" the web? Well I guess it's better late than never.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @10:24AM (1 child)
But the web needs to be thrown out or reverted.
HTML 4.01, maybe with updated CSS support.
A rebaked HTML5 sans DRM and with privacy support standardized and built into all 'internet freedom' certified browsers by default.
And domain name/addressing independence via a protocol agnostic layer like Tor, I2P, CJDNS (ipv6, but still helps get out of ARPA control), etc.
If we do all of these the internet will be saved, not only the web. If we don't, it's just more land grabbing and politicking at the mercy of dumbasses like TBLee, Mozilla, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:26PM
Yes. we have to take DNS from the controllers or the web is a lost cause.
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Tuesday November 26 2019, @12:18PM
He's having a Robert Oppenheimer moment, I suppose.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 27 2019, @01:40AM
TBL supported the EME proposal after years of discussion. His reasoning was that DRM was inevitable given the way the previous votes and discussion went and the EME specification was one of the better ones out of all the alternatives.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by MostCynical on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:07AM
FTFY
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 4, Insightful) by jb on Tuesday November 26 2019, @08:43AM
Would that be the same "Facebook, Google and Microsoft" who were ringleaders in wrecking the 'web in the first place?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @09:32AM (1 child)
I once had immense respect for Sir Tim. The reason is obvious, he played a key role in inventing the web as we know it today. And he has been quick to mention that he could have patented the underlying technologies, but chose to keep everything free for the sake of progress. I'm not entirely sure I believe this anymore.
This idea starts with the premise that politicians, corporations, media, and other players have effectively destroyed communication on the internet today. Who wouldn't agree? He then jumps from there to, "So let's let them come up with lots of new rules for the internet using some completely meaningful and vague premise as the foundation!" Erm? It's pretty obvious who those rules will benefit. He's effectively asking the wolves, still actively devouring hens, to guard the chicken coop. It's no wonder they're lining up far and wide. The issue is I'm certain he also realizes this.
So what's up? The only thing I can see is a money grab. I'm certain participating corporations will pay a small annual fee for participation and maintenance of the "contract for the web." He gives them good PR, they pretend to care, nothing changes - except Sir Tim probably gets a much fatter bank account. In my now aged and probably somewhat more realistic view, I don't think Sir Tim had any clue where the internet would end up. And now he sees a world where there are countless mega billionaires created entirely on the technology he helped to develop, mostly by defecating on society. And he's gotten pretty much nothing in exchange for his role, and feels he deserves his 15 minutes and 5 dollars.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @09:50AM
If he patented it, it would have died in obscurity.
The man either became senile and delusional, or is trying to milk his fame for a few bucks. Pretty sad, really.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by darkfeline on Tuesday November 26 2019, @10:12AM (5 children)
Does the web need saving? 20+ years ago, you could run a program that, when it receives an HTTP request, responds with an HTML document. In the document, you could put these things called hyperlinks that you could send another HTTP request for and get another HTML document.
You can still do this. The web works just as well as it ever has. The fact that most people flock to Facebook et al or that some people run programs that vomit JS in response to an HTTP request does not imply that there's anything wrong with the web.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by shortscreen on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:35AM (1 child)
ISPs gave us a two-tiered web where only corporations are allowed to serve stuff and the serfs are only meant to consume it (while being spied on and watching ads). Now people can't put up a website about their dog or share their photos or send an email without a corporate middleman to watch over and profit from the process. This is the fundamental cause of most problems on the web.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 27 2019, @12:56AM
>Now people can't put up a website
Easier than ever. You can buy a domain and get your site up in a single day. There are tutorials and videos for each step of the process. Not a techie? There are multiple websites where you can hire someone to do it all for you.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Tuesday November 26 2019, @12:26PM (1 child)
Remember the "don't use frames - as you can't bookmark them or link to them" argument a couple of decades ago - all todays dynamic page rewriting apps are making exactly the same mistakes, and indeed cannot be bookmarked, or linked to.
And people are still using spaces in proportional fonts in order to ertically align text in MS Word.
You can't fix people, and the web is what the people make it. And unfortunately they're mostly fucknuts.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 28 2019, @04:05AM
And using underscores to create lines on forms for entering text. The mind simply reels.
RIP MDC.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @01:08PM
The government should ban JS
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:27AM
Lets be real.
If the big names in Silicon Valley are in agreement, then you know this isn't about "Saving the Web", it is about carving it up even further.
This is like Mafia "Families" agreeing to share/divide territories to avoid (in this case) blood spilt (in the form of legal fees) fighting one another.
They're the ones who are breaking the web in the pursuit of profits in the first place. Destroying privacy at every turn, homogenizing and commercializing every nook and cranny.
Make no mistake, if they support it then you know it isn't any good for the rest of us. Why would TB-L lend his name to this?
Did they just tell him what he wanted to hear and use his name to lend authority/believable cover to their plans?
(Score: 1) by r_a_trip on Tuesday November 26 2019, @01:10PM
So basically yet another "be decent" appeal. Like so many other appeals from society which weren't heeded by the people who wanted to get to the top, no matter what.
Principles 1, 2, and 3 will be honored as long as it is in the interest of the state to do so. Once seriously destabilising factors are detected, you can bet access will be curtailed severely.
Principle 4 will automatically be fulfilled. Every connected human is a source of potential income.
Principle 5 already died before it was written down. Privacy is dead and no amount of galvanism will resurrect that corpse.
It's funny that principle 6 is so easily perverted into commercialized thought policing. Microsoft/Google/Facebook telling us how to be good little children. It would be hilariously funny if the pending reality wasn't so tragic.
Principle 7. When it comes to being a creating and collaborating net citizen, sorry, no. The World Wide Web is a market place now and as such I will take what I want from it. I will not create, lest I tread on the toes of some vested interests and I will not run risk online by putting anything that resembles work up.
Principle 8. Being civil? Just like in real life, 99% of the time. Protecting minorities? I'm not in the business of bullying minorities, but that is as far as my support goes. You don't want to be shat on? Then start kicking the butt doing the shitting. Your fight is not my fight.
Principle 9. No. I will not fruitlessly fight for imaginary rights on the plaything of big corporations and the military. The Internet has always been a conglomerate of privately owned networks and servers.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by RS3 on Tuesday November 26 2019, @02:56PM
I hope I don't rain on anyone's parade, but one of my biggest concerns is web page bloat. I don't know how it could be enforced, and I'm not in favor of enforcement, but it would be nice to know how huge a webpage will be before clicking on it. Besides self-playing videos, etc., I hate when a page is actually hundreds of pages, as indicated by how tiny the right-hand scrollbar becomes.
Next, when many truly huge image files are placed on a webpage and then size constrained for render, rather than resize the actual image, and maybe provide a link to the actual huge hi-res image. Not only takes long to load, but causes browser to chew up RAM and could go into (useless) swapping.
Autoplay video blockers seem to work for me, but the browser still loads video bytes in the background. Some people pay for the data they use and so maybe a chargeback system where the webpage designer pays for the data usage.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 26 2019, @03:06PM
I think in this discourse we're losing sight of the original purpose of the Internet, which was to be a decentralized communications system. Yet, here we are quibbling about governments and corporations and the Illuminati controlling it. So, disintermediate them some more. Disintermediate until centralized control by anyone is impossible. Disintermediate the information, then disintermediate production of materiel, then tell the Masters to go fuck themselves sideways.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @05:07PM
"Silicon Valley" beat you to it, Tim
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Coward, Anonymous on Tuesday November 26 2019, @06:09PM (1 child)
Sad to see that nothing in the principles encourages free speech or discourages censorship.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @10:55PM
I am offended by this comment. Please remove it admins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @07:03PM
Have you been to their "Contract for the Web" site? This is a pure hypocrisy - showing logos of "supporters" without any information who they are, and of course without links, to keep the user on the site as long as possible. Is this what we want - Internet in which there is no links because it's helping competitors? This is contrary to the idea of decentralized Internet, this will nullify all 3 last points of this "manifesto". External links are a backbone of Internet oriented to exchange knowledge, without this we're in the balkanization again.
In these logos, I can see Google and FB, which should be blamed for situation. Reddit... which did what they did to open source and of course they have a recent political affairs. There is also a Twitter, supplying information for profiling since 2006. W3C... Are they these pals with EME DRM? Wait... Tim Bernes-Lee? Didn't he approved something with it?.
I don't know most of these logos, but I am just curious who invented that two purple rotten fishes with green bugs on them is a good idea for a logo :).
The Internet is already divided and commercialized. The entry level is no more a HTML tutorial, notepad.exe and FTP client - which everyone could afford. In fact we're more than halfway to the situation like in a TV - only large businesses can have their presence in the medium, people may write them postcards hoping that they will be read in an advert.
There will be no "late 90s", where WWW pages were made to share knowledge, and not only knowledge, but have control over what they drag to "Remote" panel and publish.
There will be something opposite - who has bigger censorship capabilities, has the power. Especially self-censorship as modern society is trained to bark at the past things and assume nothing changes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @10:53PM
Thanks for the offer but i don't need saving. Not from google or facebook or authoritarian governments or trolls or malware or or bad web design or solylents news. I will eat them all and laugh at their dead corpses.
Yours sincerely
The internet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 26 2019, @11:10PM
1. Companies that are already involved in a millions counts a day of felony wiretapping are brought to justice.
After that, I think you'll find a whole new privacy first systems architecture will just magically appear.