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AP reports that wildlife investigators who watched as birds burn and fell at the Ivanpah Dry Lake Solar Tower Plant are urging California officials to halt the operator's application to build a still-bigger version until the full extent of the deaths can be assessed. Estimates per year now range from a low of about a thousand "streamers" by the plant operator to 28,000 by an expert for the Center for Biological Diversity environmental group. Those statistics haven’t curbed the enthusiasm of the Obama administration for the solar-power plant, which granted Ivanpah a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee. The deaths are "alarming. It's hard to say whether that's the location or the technology," says Garry George, renewable-energy director for the California chapter of the Audubon Society. "There needs to be some caution." Federal wildlife officials say the plant might act as a "mega-trap" for wildlife, with the bright light of the plant attracting insects, which in turn attract insect-eating birds that fly to their death in the intensely focused light rays.
The $2.2 billion plant at Ivanpah Dry Lake near the California-Nevada border is the world's biggest plant to employ so-called power towers. More than 300,000 mirrors, each the size of a garage door, reflect solar rays onto three boiler towers each looming up to 40 stories high. The water inside is heated to produce steam, which turns turbines that generate enough electricity for 140,000 homes. While biologists say there is no known feasible way to curb the number of birds killed, the companies behind the projects say they are hoping to find one — studying whether lights, sounds or some other technology would scare them away, says Joseph Desmond, senior vice president at BrightSource Energy. Power-tower proponents are fighting to keep the deaths from forcing a pause in the building of new plants when they see the technology on the verge of becoming more affordable and accessible (PDF). When it comes to powering the country's grids, "diversity of technology ... is critical," says Thomas Conroy, a renewable-energy expert. "Nobody should be arguing let's be all coal, all solar," all wind, or all nuclear. "And every one of those technologies has a long list of pros and cons."
(Score: 5, Interesting) by BasilBrush on Thursday August 21 2014, @02:37PM
when the comparable 40 story building not on a bird migration path is supposedly frying a bird every couple of minutes
"Supposedly" being the operative word. The supposedly call these events "streamers" for the visual effect produced. Which makes it more than a little strange that there is no video footage of it happening. A 6 minute youtube video ought to be able to show us 3 of these events. And yet there's not even a video with a single such event happening.
Another clue that this is pure FUD is The Atlantic article linked doesn't stop at birds, but claims it threatens bats as well. Which would be quite difficult given that bats go out hunting for insects at night.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @04:35PM
Which makes it more than a little strange that there is no video footage of it happening.
You are assuming that the plant owners would permit that footage to get out. A cynic would expect that that the federal wildlife investigators are contractually forbidden from releasing any videos filmed on the property.
but claims it threatens bats as well. Which would be quite difficult given that bats go out hunting for insects at night.
It is more of an exaggeration, googling reveals that they find 5-10 dead bats each month there. Bats don't wait until it is 100% dark to come out, given the scale of the plant, even 5% of its peak reflected energy could be dangerous if they are close to the focal point.
(Score: 2) by tathra on Thursday August 21 2014, @06:39PM
it doesn't matter. if it was really happening and people were honestly outraged at it (as opposed to standard FUD which just requires getting idiots to act on your behalf) they'd go out of their way to get a video of it happening out in the public, if for no other reason than "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (and i assure you, "its lighting all the birds on fire!" is an extraordinary claim).
(Score: 2) by M. Baranczak on Thursday August 21 2014, @07:28PM
It is more of an exaggeration, googling reveals that they find 5-10 dead bats each month there.
A meaningless statistic. How many dead bats per month were they finding before the generator was built?
Bats don't wait until it is 100% dark to come out, given the scale of the plant, even 5% of its peak reflected energy could be dangerous if they are close to the focal point.
I don't know about the bats in that area, but here, they don't come out until well after the sun goes down. At that point, there's still light, but it's not coming from a single source, so the solar array wouldn't work. (As a matter of fact, these types of arrays don't work when it's cloudy, either.)
Bats do come out in the daytime when they're rabid, though.
(Score: 2) by evilviper on Thursday August 21 2014, @09:07PM
What are you, 12? The world existed before YouTube. The US government doesn't operate on the America's Funniest Home Videos-model.
How exactly do these "Federal wildlife investigators" who reported this phenomenon, fit into your crazy conspiracy theory? Are they all getting money under the table from the Koch brothers?
Bats go out around dusk... Some earlier than others. They don't all wait until the sun sets and flood out. There's still sunlight around dusk, and with thousands of concentrating mirrors, probably still hot enough to kill unlucky animals.
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Friday August 22 2014, @09:42PM
What are you, 12?
I'm most probably a lot older than you are. I wish I was still young, but I'm not.
The world existed before YouTube.
But Ivanpah Solar Power Facility didn't. So the creation date of YouTube is irrelevant.
The US government doesn't operate on the America's Funniest Home Videos-model.
We're not the US Government. We're soylentnews commenters. And YouTube would be reasonable evidence here for the events that are claimed.
How exactly do these "Federal wildlife investigators" who reported this phenomenon, fit into your crazy conspiracy theory?
There's a world of difference between what "Federal wildlife investigators" say, and what is written in The Atlantic. Go to the original document, purporting to be from the National Fish and Wildlife Forensics Laboratory, and you'll find that all witnessed were a number of dead birds at 3 solar sites. The didn't see a single bird actually fry, let alone one every 2 minutes. The carcasses amounted to 233, over 3 sites. With no way to tell over what period the birds died. They are clear about how little they know, and recommend...
wait for it...
video monitoring. Perhaps you should tell them that YouTube wasn't invented...
Also turns out the bat issue is not your ridiculous theory about dusk light being enough to fry them, but that some bats try roosting in the condenser building - cause of death unstated, but perhaps it gets a bit steamy in there. Or perhaps they just collected the naturally dead corpses that you would find on the floor of any bat roost. In either case an issue that could be completely eliminated with chicken wire over access points.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 2) by evilviper on Saturday August 23 2014, @11:31PM
I like how you apparently read the report, yet conveniently left out the purtinent details that don't happen to agree with your skepticism.
"Solar flux injury was identified as the cause of death in 47/141 birds", and just as many were in too poor of shape to be identified. That's with only minimal attempts to recover carcasses, and solar flux was only active during HALF of the observation period, making the stats excessively weighted towards other causes of death that were occurring while still under construction.
So even without YouTube, we've established that a large and inordinate number of birds are being killed by solar flux at Ivanpah, multiples of the numbers by other conventional causes.
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Sunday August 24 2014, @12:11AM
So even without YouTube, we've established that a large and inordinate number of birds are being killed by solar flux at Ivanpah, multiples of the numbers by other conventional causes.
No you haven't established that at all. You don't have a figure for numbers by "other conventional causes", nor even the length of time that those corpses had been on site. And "large and inordinate" is nothing more than opinion.
Birds, like every other living thing, die. They have a limited life span. This is just one cause, of countless human causes, and even more natural ones. Flying into building window panes and being hit by traffic being two major anthropogenic ones. There is precisely nothing in the document to show that the numbers from this solar plant are large or inordinate.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 2) by evilviper on Sunday August 24 2014, @02:43AM
Yes, I do. The cause of death is broken-down in the report.
It was an active ecosystem. Scavengers were quite active. In addition, they made regular sweeps over a year and a half, not just one appearance, as you seem to want to think, so they have a very good time-frame on how long those corpses would have been there.
The breakdown by cause of death shows that. The number of deaths at the two other sites where solar flux was a non-issue show that as well.
You are clinging quite firmly to your willful ignorance.
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Monday August 25 2014, @08:02PM
From the report: "It should be emphasised that we currently have very incomplete knowledge of the scope of avian mortality at these solar sites."
Wilful ignorance is thinking you know that which you don't.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 2) by evilviper on Monday August 25 2014, @09:14PM
This coming from the guy who is convinced that birds are dying of natural cause in mid-air while they happen to be flying over Ivanpah.
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.