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posted by Fnord666 on Saturday December 14 2019, @04:18PM   Printer-friendly
from the slow-roasting-grills-of-justice dept.

A federal judge on Tuesday roasted Arkansas' law banning makers of meatless meat products from using words such as "burger," "sausage," "roast," and "meat" in their labeling.
[...] Judge Kristine Baker, of the US District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas, granted a preliminary injunction that prevents the state from enforcing the law while the legal case is ongoing. In her order, Judge Baker made clear that the law appears to violate the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment—as Tofurky argued. She determined that the state will likely lose the case.
[...] "The State argues that Tofurky's labels for its plant-based products are inherently misleading because they use the names and descriptors of traditional meat items but do not actually include the product they invoke, including terms like 'chorizo,' 'hot dogs,' 'sausage,' and 'ham roast,'" Judge Baker noted. Such misleading or false labels would not be protected commercial speech under the First Amendment, the state claimed.

But Judge Baker essentially called that argument bologna.
[...] She went on to cite a ruling in a similar case that determined that "Under Plaintiffs' logic, a reasonable consumer might also believe that veggie bacon contains pork, that flourless chocolate cake contains flour, or that e-books are made out of paper."

"That assumption is unwarranted," she went on. "The labels in the record evidence include ample terminology to indicate the vegan or vegetarian nature of the products."
[...] Meat and dairy industry groups have been increasingly working to try to limit the use of terms like "milk" and "meat" in other states and contexts as meatless and diary-free products continue to grow in popularity. Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and South Dakota have similar anti-veggie-meat labeling laws. In Wisconsin, lawmakers have considered banning non-dairy products from using the word "milk," such as beverages labeled almond milk.

The latter issue led former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb to quip last year that "You know, an almond doesn't lactate." He said that the Food and Drug Administration is working on a guidance for the use of the term.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/judge-serves-up-sizzling-rebuke-of-arkansas-anti-veggie-meat-labeling-law/
Previous Stories:
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=19/12/04/1425220
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=19/07/07/1443201
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=18/02/26/2315236


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  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @04:52PM (21 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @04:52PM (#932071)

    ...hamburgers are called hamburgers because they come from Hamburg, not because they have ham. They've always been made with ground beef. Similar for other things like sausages, hot dogs, and roasts. Not similar that they come from Hamburg, but similar that they've always been made with meat. Trying to steal the names is exclusively an attempt to confuse consumers. The 'Impossible Burger' is probably the most overt example of this.

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  • (Score: 2) by Booga1 on Saturday December 14 2019, @05:05PM (16 children)

    by Booga1 (6333) on Saturday December 14 2019, @05:05PM (#932073)

    Yes, I know. That's my point. Nobody cares about Hamburg and the origins of the name. Do you think anyone is confused by it, or the "Impossible BurgerTM"?

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by EEMac on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:08PM (15 children)

      by EEMac (6423) on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:08PM (#932096)

      YES.

      We went to Del Taco several months ago. My nephew ordered a " Epic Beyond Cali Burrito". He couldn't figure out why it tasted weird, then realized it was made with a vegetable-based meat substitute. He was confused by the marketing and not at all pleased.

      There's a lot of interpretations of "beyond" or "impossible". Does it mean something important? Is marketing just bringing in another term that sells well with some age group or other? If you're selling fake meat, it had better be clearly labeled.

      P.S. He offered a bite of the fake-meat burrito to the dog. The dog wouldn't eat it.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Booga1 on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:20PM (12 children)

        by Booga1 (6333) on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:20PM (#932104)

        I fail to see anything in "Epic Beyond Cali Burrito" that implies there is any kind of meat in it. Burritos are tortillas wrapped around a filling. If it's all vegetables, it's still a burrito.
        Did they claim it was supposed to be chicken, beef, pork, or other meat?

        • (Score: 4, Disagree) by EEMac on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:32PM (11 children)

          by EEMac (6423) on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:32PM (#932107)

          I fail to see anything in "Epic Beyond Cali Burrito" that implies there is NOT any kind of meat in it, and it intentionally looks like it's made with hamburger.

          Let's keep the goal posts in place. I replied to:

          Do you think anyone is confused by it, or the "Impossible BurgerTM"?

          Yes. My nephew was confused by similar marketing.

          • (Score: 5, Informative) by Booga1 on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:50PM (8 children)

            by Booga1 (6333) on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:50PM (#932110)

            Alright, so I'll keep the goalpost at "Epic Beyond Cali Burrito" and quote you their marketing:

            Epic Beyond Cali Burrito

            (vegetarian): Seasoned Beyond Meat® plant-based crumbles, our famous Crinkle Cut Fries, sour cream, guacamole, and pico de gallo salsa.

            Ingredients

            Tortilla (Epic Burritos), Seasoned Beyond Meat, Crinkle Cut French Fries, Guacamole, Salsa, Salsa Seasoning, Sour Cream

            It's very clearly marked as vegetarian and plant-based. There is absolutely no mention of beef, chicken, pork, or other animal product. That being said, your nephew and those around him are now aware that the words "epic beyond cali" have no meaning with regards to the flesh of any particular animal.

            • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @07:54PM (6 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @07:54PM (#932138)

              Ignorant boomer type wants to be angry, let them be angry at their failure to interpret reality.

              • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Booga1 on Saturday December 14 2019, @08:08PM (5 children)

                by Booga1 (6333) on Saturday December 14 2019, @08:08PM (#932146)

                Hey now, let's keep this civil.
                Your attempt to label them as a supposed "boomer type" tells me more about you than them and it doesn't add anything to the conversation.

                • (Score: 1) by EEMac on Sunday December 15 2019, @05:25AM (1 child)

                  by EEMac (6423) on Sunday December 15 2019, @05:25AM (#932305)

                  Hey now, let's keep this civil.
                  Your attempt to label them as a supposed "boomer type" tells me more about you than them and it doesn't add anything to the conversation.

                  Since I can't find a way to send a private message, I'll say it here: that was very cool of you to do. Thank you.

                  • (Score: 2) by Booga1 on Sunday December 15 2019, @04:25PM

                    by Booga1 (6333) on Sunday December 15 2019, @04:25PM (#932402)

                    Thanks. I thought your comments were informative. After all, I trust you're telling the truth with regards to your experiences, and your nephew's surprise burrito. Nobody likes to be served food that isn't what they wanted.
                    Maybe the signs in the store were lacking. Maybe it was just unexpected due to ordering based on what picture looked tasty at the moment the order was placed. That is a certainly a common problem, especially with new products. I often order new or novel dishes since I want to find out if I like it or not. Most of the time it's a "one and done" deal if it doesn't suit me.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @07:08PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @07:08PM (#932448)

                  Sure I get your point, I'm just tired of all the outrage over vegetarian options and the insults that go with it. We younger generations get shit on for disliking racism and inequality, but someone eating a veggie option by accident "CALL 911!"

                  Peak boomer mentality, but I guess bigotry is only allowed in one direction. Maybe analyze your personal feelings about being labeled as part of a generation, then imagine how much worse it is for LGBTQ/darker skin/different religion people who are regularly shat upon by users here.

                  But ok, BOOMER is a line too far. Pardon me, I think my eyes rolled out of my head.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 16 2019, @02:24AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 16 2019, @02:24AM (#932643)

                    Not a boomer here, but I will start to care about people's tender little fee-fees about this topic the very nanosecond that vegans start being relaxed about which grill their buzzword-friendly meat substitute was cooked on.

                    Not holding my breath, here.

                    (Oh, and as for the whole racism and inequality thing, you do realise that boomers were the main generation behind things like disinvestment from South Africa, leftward swings in politics that dominated the last half of the 20th century and all the fun of disarmament and barefooted hippie protests ... right? Millenials weren't even born then, and Gen X was in grade school, if that.)

                  • (Score: 2) by Booga1 on Monday December 16 2019, @04:23AM

                    by Booga1 (6333) on Monday December 16 2019, @04:23AM (#932680)

                    You're absolutely right about the directional nature of racism and bigotry. However, my reply was an attempt to short circuit the response pattern of escalation so the conversation could continue.
                    When you see a childish insult as a response, no matter who it's from or who it's directed at, it usually means you've lost the ability to have a discussion. It's an attempt to silence the other side by marginalizing them into a box with a neat little label. The insult itself isn't really material as it's more of a signpost of where things are headed in a debate.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @03:26AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @03:26AM (#932260)

              You are like a Trump supporter who will intentionally not understand what is going on

          • (Score: 2) by helel on Saturday December 14 2019, @07:21PM (1 child)

            by helel (2949) on Saturday December 14 2019, @07:21PM (#932120)

            What, exactly, do the words "Made with 100% plant-based protein" mean to you? That seems to be the main descriptor of the "Epic Beyond Cali Burrito," along with others such as "vegetarian" and "plant-based crumbles."

            • (Score: 2) by legont on Saturday December 14 2019, @09:05PM

              by legont (4179) on Saturday December 14 2019, @09:05PM (#932159)

              What, exactly, do the words "Made with 100% plant-based protein" mean to you?

              This means for me that there was "100% plant-based protein" added to the dish. It may be as little as 1% of the total mass or as much as 70%.
              When I cook myself, I always add 100% plant based protein to my beef mainly as nut oils.

              --
              "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
      • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Sunday December 15 2019, @07:20AM

        by krishnoid (1156) on Sunday December 15 2019, @07:20AM (#932326)

        The dog was obviously not going to turn to canni-- I'm sorry, I've already said too much.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @04:00PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @04:00PM (#932386)

        Keep in mind that the Del Taco burrito does not have a consumer product label. Your nephew was probably reading a menu or saw a marketing poster. Product labels have much more detailed ingredient information than fast food menus and posters.

        On the other hand, Del Taco should probably state "meatless" on the menu/poster if they want vegetarians to purchase that item.

  • (Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:36PM

    by fyngyrz (6567) on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:36PM (#932108) Journal

    ...hamburgers are called hamburgers because they come from Hamburg, not because they have ham.

    Well, clearly, they should change the name of that city, or I might end up buying plane tickets when I only meant to get a hamburger. I'm a just poor witless consumer over here, trying to rub two brain cells together. I need protection to be dispensed by our Great Legislative Bodies! Save me, O Lordly arbiters of confusion!

    --
    When I dunk my cookies, I think of you.
    I hold them under until the bubbles stop.

  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:46PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:46PM (#932109)

    I guess you never looked into what goes into sausage and hot dogs.

  • (Score: 2) by RamiK on Saturday December 14 2019, @09:09PM (1 child)

    by RamiK (1813) on Saturday December 14 2019, @09:09PM (#932161)

    but similar that they've always been made with meat

    This comment does not contain actual fruit.

    --
    compiling...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @02:00AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @02:00AM (#932238)

      My belief is "offal" is the most accurate word to describe the ingredients of hot dogs and sausage.

      With sufficient spices, they can be made quite tasty.