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Which world would you rather live in?
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
We lie loudest when we lie to ourselves.
-- Eric Hoffer
(Score: 4, Interesting) by acid andy on Friday December 27 2019, @10:46AM (34 children)
I marked you insightful but I think it's worth noting that people's attitudes are easily led first by the media and then in turn by their peers. If the media are paid to promote greed, self-interest and resentment of other groups then those values will take route in a society. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing though, because you could say the reason the media are promoting those things are because those with power over them already have that greed, self-interest and resentment. Some of it is probably down to survival instincts. We haven't got free energy and replicators yet. The post scarcity of Star Trek (including even post scarcity of land with the easy interstellar travel) I think is a necessary ingredient for such a utopia.
I agree with you though about seeing the kind of people that rise to the top. Maybe the selfish, destructive human instincts are just too strong to overcome, short of a huge change in evolutionary pressures or large scale gene (Roddenberry?) therapy. I don't think that would go down too well, though.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday December 27 2019, @07:12PM (33 children)
The tendency of Americans to engage in superiority thinking runs pretty deep and I see it on both the left and the right (though admittedly, most of the people I know drift leftward). I'm not sure I believe that this is media driven and would tend to think that our cultural inclination to look down on others who live and/or believe differently has a greater impact. I should say I have no experience living in other cultures so whether this superiority-complex is uniquely American (or at least expressed more blatantly here).
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday December 27 2019, @07:17PM (32 children)
Let me finish my sentence:
"... whether this superiority-complex is uniquely American (or at least expressed more blatantly here), is something I don't know."
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Freeman on Friday December 27 2019, @07:29PM (31 children)
In America we can yell crap at the sky, rage about how awful a sitting president is, and other things; without being thrown in jail. So, I'd like to think that this particular brand of superiority-complex comes from the freedom to be ourselves. Unfortunately, a lot of ourselves are full of ourselves.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by gtomorrow on Saturday December 28 2019, @03:33AM (29 children)
Like Americans have exclusivity on this?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 28 2019, @04:26PM (24 children)
Of course not. You can rage against the machine, and we won't even shoot you for it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by gtomorrow on Saturday December 28 2019, @05:49PM (23 children)
Are you sure about that? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm thinking it's one of the places on this planet where it's most likely to happen, raging or not.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 28 2019, @06:21PM (2 children)
I won't shoot you for raging against the machine, despite what Aristarchus may have told you. I shot him for shagging the livestock.
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Sunday December 29 2019, @12:53AM (1 child)
Good to know, even if I don't share that particular proclivity...for the livestock, that is.
(Score: 2) by coolgopher on Wednesday January 08 2020, @01:23PM
It's the proclivity for gun stock that's the issue though...
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Freeman on Tuesday December 31 2019, @04:10PM (19 children)
Yeah, no, it's not as bad as some would have you believe. Also, go figure, a country who's citizens can readily buy guns has more gun violence; than a country where the average person can't put his/her hands on one. That doesn't mean there is a significant difference with regard to violence. Sure, it's harder to go on a mass shooting spree, but impinging on the rights of everyone due to a few disturbed individuals isn't freedom. Disturbed people will find ways to kill lots of people, if that's what they are set on doing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26402367 [bbc.com]
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/outside-americas-knives-are-often-weapon-choice-homicides-180949953/ [smithsonianmag.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_stabbings [wikipedia.org]
^-- And those are just about knives.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday December 31 2019, @06:32PM (9 children)
Here's the thing: Yes, you can kill people with a knife. On average, when someone tries to kill people with a knife, the body count is a lot lower than when they have a semi-auto rifle or even a pistol. We know guns are useful for killing people, because otherwise no military would bother issuing them to the troops and training their troops in their use.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday December 31 2019, @07:08PM (8 children)
Quite true, which is why the right to bear arms is rested with the people. Otherwise, the government is too full of itself to protect the interests of the people. The power should be with the people.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday December 31 2019, @07:33PM (7 children)
You have an AR-15. The government has drone-mounted guided missiles that will hit and destroy your home moving at mach 5. You won't even hear it coming.
In short, you lost that one a long time ago.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Freeman on Tuesday December 31 2019, @08:08PM
It's true to a certain extent, but we're not in an iRobot kind of situation, yet. For it to get to that point, you'd be siding with the government getting full military support. I'm guessing, if it got to that point, the "unruly civilians/rebels" would have access to some things.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 01 2020, @02:30AM (1 child)
As I recall, the gubbermint passed a special law about weaponizing small, privately owned drones. A year or more ago, I watched a Youtube video of some young man who built and flew a drone with a weapon on it. How about 4 years ago? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBBC-xL_MTg [youtube.com]
Granted, that puny thing doesn't compare to a predator drone, but it demonstrates that the cops and the military don't have all the firepower.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday January 03 2020, @04:00PM
The drone-mount isn't what makes an AR-15 completely outclassed by a modern missile. The speed that means your first indication that it's coming is the explosion, the guidance system, and the fact that close is good enough to do the job is what makes the difference.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 02 2020, @09:50PM (2 children)
Gee.. I bet someone said the same thing with Vietnam and yet the Yanks got their assess handed to them.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday January 03 2020, @04:05PM (1 child)
The VietCong, by the time they were fighting the US at least, had tanks and other heavy weapons supplied by the Chinese.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Saturday January 04 2020, @12:21AM
We made the early mistake of backing the Ngô family, a typically corrupt, self serving bunch of third world plutocrats whose sole concern was their own benefit. It was easy for the Việt Cộng, who in a large part were part of local populations, to win the battle for "hearts and minds". Your crops were in trouble? Your animals sick? The Việt Cộng were there to help. Help the Ngô family and their backers? The Việt Cộng were there to see and "reward" that as well. Too many officers (and reporters, who were allowed then to be embedded in troops) saw the truth and reported it, but their reports were ignored in favor of keeping the money flowing to where it did least good. By the time the Ngô family was deposed, the war was lost and it was just a long battle of attrition until the U.S. tired of the cost. The Chinese threw in support once they realized the situation, thinking they would capitalize on it in the end, but in the end, the Chinese (and Russians) made the same mistake the French and the U.S. did, believing it was a war of ideologies. To the Vietnamese people, it was always about independence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 07 2020, @01:54AM
Yet they still have problems with keeping goat herders living in mudhuts in line. I'm sure in your mind, the government has several million missiles, tanks and drones stockpiled for such an occasion.
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Tuesday December 31 2019, @07:40PM (8 children)
How long did it take you to cherry-pick those examples? And how often do those incidents happen in one country?
I can turn on CNN anytime of the day to hear about some daily shooting in America, not to mention local news. Usually it's a report on some American "with a history of mental disorder" taking out more than one person (not crimes of passion) and usually with a semi-automatic. This is an exclusively American disease.
We are all bantering semantics about the symptoms while a cure goes undiscussed if not completely ignored.
In any case, Happy New Year, Mr Freeman.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday December 31 2019, @08:04PM (4 children)
Oh, it took me about 30 seconds of duck duck going mass murder knife attacks. No cherry picking needed when searching for that. Try turning on a different channel, then? One less biased / designed to specifically sell you on something.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Tuesday December 31 2019, @11:14PM (3 children)
Why am I wasting drinking/celebration time on this? Because I love you.
As of late, any examples/metaphors that I've mentioned recently (not just you...please) have unfortunately been interpreted far too literally. When I say "CNN" it's just as an example of 24-hour American news. I could have cited Al Jazeera, BBC, RTL, RaiNews24, France1 etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but my example still holds, especially when watching the Brian Eno-coined "firehose" of American local news.
You look specifically for "mass murder knife attacks" on DDG (my preferred search site, BTW), which immediately raises a red flag and make me laugh contemporaneously. MASS MURDER KNIFE ATTACKS? What, was the perpetrator Barry Allen? Then again, just days ago, there were the machete attacks against a Rabbi and his guests in New York. [cnn.com] But when I think of "mass murder" I think of "In Cold Blood" to "Hotel Rwanda" up to the Shoah and Hiroshima....please, the examples cited are illustrative, not literal...except the last.
In any case, you know as well as I do: your isolated knifings are not ANYWHERE near the same as the DAILY semi-automatic American massacres. Think "The Joker" gunning down moviegoers to Texas churches (to cite merely two 2019 examples)...I insist that we are still bantering semantics regarding the symptoms.
Again, HAPPY NEW YEAR, Mr Freeman. We'll take this up on January 2, 2020 if you wish...you know where to find me. Now, I have prosecco to pop open. CHEERS!
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday January 02 2020, @04:27PM (2 children)
Mass murder firearms attacks and mass murder knife attacks are apples to apples comparisons. So, yeah, I DDG'ed that.
We're middle of the road as far as intentional homicides are concerned per capita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate [wikipedia.org]
Still about 4.5 times more than the United Kingdom, but not horrendous.
We're #10 in the list of firearm-related death rates according to this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate [wikipedia.org]
This list is much less reliable than the intentional homicides list. Which may also may be fairly inaccurate.
Interestingly enough, though, we are #1 in guns owned per citizen by a Huge Margin. We have more guns per capita than the next three countries on the list combined. We have over 4 times as many guns per capita than the next country on the list.
With the comparatively Huge number of guns compared to every other country, it seems that blaming the guns for the deaths is quite unreasonable. The fact of the matter is that guns are used to kill people and they do that quite well. Perhaps, we should focus on helping the average person and support their freedoms. Even better, focus on the areas with the most gun violence problems and fix the underlying problems. Instead of focusing on trying to reduce the freedoms of all the people.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 5, Touché) by Gaaark on Thursday January 02 2020, @08:41PM (1 child)
Whoa there a second:
in high income countries (ie: developed countries not tearing themselves apart by war and poverty), the US is #1 by a wide margin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate#/media/File:2010_homicide_suicide_rates_high-income_countries.png [wikipedia.org]
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday January 02 2020, @10:46PM
Be that as it may, the statistics can be played against each other to your heart's content.
The USA also has by far the highest GDP, and in fact has more GDP than the next 5 countries on the OECD combined. The USA also leads in GDP per capita when compared to those other 5 countries. While only having more population than the next 3. Sure, we don't have the highest GDP per capita, but we're still #5 on the list, if you sort it by GDP per capita. With a moderately high income inequality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD [wikipedia.org]
^-- From the infographic you posted: "Gun-related homicide and suicide rates in high-income OECD countries, 2010, sorted by total gun-related deaths (suicide plus intentional homicide, plus other)[84]"
Perhaps, the biggest difference is that in America, if you break into someone's home, you will likely be shot. Intentional homicide, doesn't mean illegal homicide. Though, I'm quite sure the illegal homicides are high. I still stand by the idea that, if we focused on the actual problem causing the violence, that those homicide numbers would come down.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday January 01 2020, @02:33AM (2 children)
Can't argue your statement about CNN. But, there is the fact that tens of thousands of reporters with an agenda sit on the edges of their seats, waiting for the opportunity to break such a story in the US. If it fits the narrative, it's splashed across TV screens around the world, in minutes.
Not so much knife violence in Europe.
(Score: 2) by jasassin on Tuesday January 14 2020, @03:20AM (1 child)
Not sure where you're getting your information from, or if you're just making it up as you go along. Citation. [gatestoneinstitute.org]
jasassin@gmail.com GPG Key ID: 0xE6462C68A9A3DB5A
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday January 14 2020, @03:19PM
I think my point stands. They aren't publicizing the knife violence, in fact, keeping details under wraps as much as possible. Knife wielding brown invaders from the south don't fit the progressive agenda.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday December 31 2019, @06:29PM (3 children)
Yeah, part of the American superiority complex is the false belief that it's the most "free" country on Earth. You compare your rights in the US to your rights even in Canada and you'll see it's not.
That said, I always liked this joke: An American and Soviet are hanging out in 1970, and the American says "I'm far more free than you. Why, I can go up to the White House holding a sign saying I don't like President Nixon." The Russian said "But I can go up to the Kremlin holding a sign saying I don't like President Nixon too!"
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Tuesday December 31 2019, @07:43PM
I LOVE THAT JOKE!
Happy New Year, Mr Thexalon.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday January 06 2020, @08:36PM
I recall reading somewhere recently, "In Poland you have freedom before speaking. In the U.S. you have freedom after speaking."
It's a lot harder to physically prevent somebody from speaking out (or it used to be, before everything went digital, anyway), than it is to make them afraid to speak out so they self-censor.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday January 08 2020, @10:55PM
I was just watching a video last night of Reagan telling Russian jokes and that was one of them, except he told it in the context of anyone is free to go to Congress and say, "I don't like President Reagan," and Gorbachev replied that anyone can go to the Politburo and say they don't like President Reagan either.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 07 2020, @01:37PM
And the rest are full of shit, yes.