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from the can-I-live-in-a-different-world-please? dept.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that a new nail polish called Undercover Colors changes color when it comes in contact with any date rape drug so, a woman just has to discretely dip her finger in her drink to test it for safety. "Our goal is to invent technologies that empower women to protect themselves from this heinous and quietly pervasive crime," say four male undergraduates at North Carolina State University who are developing the polish and currently asking for donations to complete their work. "Through this nail polish and similar technologies, we hope to make potential perpetrators afraid to spike a woman’s drink because there’s now a risk that they can get caught."
However some sexual assault prevention advocates warn that the nail polish is not necessarily the best way to approach the sexual assault epidemic on college campuses. “One of the ways that rape is used as a tool to control people is by limiting their behavior,” says Rebecca Nagle. “As a woman, I’m told not to go out alone at night, to watch my drink, to do all of these things. That way, rape isn’t just controlling me while I’m actually being assaulted — it controls me 24/7 because it limits my behavior. Solutions like these actually just recreate that. I don’t want to fucking test my drink when I’m at the bar. That’s not the world I want to live in.” According to Alexandra Brodsky the argument that women simply need to be more responsible is a common response to the current conversation about sexual assault on college campuses — and one that activists say doesn’t get to the heart of the issue. "The problem isn’t that women don’t know when there are roofies in their drink; the problem is people putting roofies in their drink in the first place."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday August 26 2014, @10:18PM
The point is that the user needs to be able to test a drink without alerting the guy who handed her a drink to the fact that she's testing it. There are two motivations for not alerting him:
1. He might actually be a perfectly nice guy who just wanted to get her a drink and didn't spike it with anything, and she doesn't want to offend him by implying that she doesn't trust him.
2. If a rapist realizes that she's on to him, there's a chance he'll try other methods such as simple brute force to get what he wants. Whereas if he's unaware that she knows, she has a better chance of finding her friends and getting away from him safely.
(Feel free to change the genders of the people involved, but chances are that most users of this product will be women, because they're much more likely to be wearing any kind of nail polish and more likely to be the recipient of drinks rather than the giver of drinks. And chances are that most of the would-be rapists are men, because the vast majority of rapes are committed by men.)
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Theophrastus on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:07PM
wow. i didn't consider any of these more intricate niceties. honestly i was thinking more along the lines of having an extra bar service: "hey Frank! test this drink this 'nice' guy just bought for me"
i bow to those with more subtle sensitivity to this whole sad and scary scene.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday August 26 2014, @11:52PM
Part of where I'm coming from: A very good friend of mine was drugged and raped within a few weeks of starting college, in part because she hadn't been taught about that risk or how to defend herself against it.
The story gets worse after that: Her parents and the college counseled her not to report it to the police, or press charges. (Colleges often do that to keep their crime statistics down and appear more attractive to potential applicants.) Her rapist went on to rape many other classmates (he had a goal of 100 different victims), and was never charged.
The sad fact is that stories like these are common, currently estimated at 1 out of every 6 women in America. If you're wondering why women often move in groups of friends, or are wary of men they've just met, this is why.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:14AM
And still some believe these women shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun for defense.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:24AM
> And still some believe these women shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun for defense.
Because someone who is roofied can totally make effective use of a gun.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mhajicek on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:42AM
More for the one who defends against the roofie, causing the rapist to resort to force.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:33AM
Your response to that makes absolutely no sense at all. I'm not even sure it parses. What does "defending" against a drug even mean? Were the pills being thrown at her aggressively? Is the firearm to be used as some kind of rounders bat to bat the pills away? And you think this is a good idea because the rapist will resort to force? You really are making no sense at all.
Let's keep things simple: How can someone under the influence of rohypnol accurately use a firearm?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Thursday August 28 2014, @02:53AM
If the drug is in you then you've already lost. How do you defend against the drug? How about with the nail polish in TFA? The point was made elsewhere in this thread that a rapist may resort to force if attempts to drug fail. Then there are plenty who start with force. In either of these cases being armed is a significant advantage.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday August 28 2014, @10:21PM
The mind boggles. Do you not live in a society with things like telephones, bar-staff, friends, or policemen?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday August 29 2014, @02:16AM
You're not following any of this, are you? Ok, let lay this out as simply as I can. There are many situations which result in someone being raped. Being drugged by a rapist is only one of them, and as I said before if the drug is in you then you've already lost. If the rapists attempt to drug you fails, or if he's unable to obtain the drug, or if he's simply inclined more to force, said rapist may wait until you leave the bar and ambush you in the alley or parking lot. Some may even forgo the bar entirely, electing to ambush their victim wherever it's convenient. In all of these cases, lethal force is an appropriate defense.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday August 29 2014, @07:35AM
You are saying, explicitly, either that it's more sensible to not have the guy arrested, and then to shoot him, or that you are too stupid to have the guy arrested and prefer to shoot him - which of the two is it? Are you stupid or a psychopath?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Saturday August 30 2014, @03:31PM
You would apparently prefer to sling insults rather than think. It is possible for a drugging attempt to fail without revealing the identity of the criminal, or even that a crime is attempted. Consider if the hand over the glass is sufficient defense against the drugging and the criminal skips the drugging attempt. Consider also if the criminal is not chatting you up when drugging your drink, but instead manages to do so without being noticed. Obviously it is preferable to have the criminal arrested if that is a reasonable possibility, but that is not always the case. You don't solve problems for the general case very often, do you?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 5, Insightful) by velex on Wednesday August 27 2014, @04:51PM
Sorry to hear about it. Perhaps if colleges required women instead of assigned males, or maybe both, to attend presentations on date rape that might help with awareness. As it is, I got to hear all about date rape in college and how even being seen near a woman is enough evidence to be expelled, but unfortunately since I'm an individual, there's nothing I can do to change somebody else who's a date rapist.
This would be good information for somebody who might be a victim to hear. Unfortunately, it's ineffective when it's being presented to individuals who have no intention of acquiring illegal drugs to have sex with unconscious women.
Maybe this has something to do with the "rape culture" problem.
Unfortunately, colleges seem more concerned with flagging all assigned males rapists who merely haven't been caught yet, but maybe that's the real trick to having a "rape culture." They huff, they puff, they sexually harass and create a hostile environment, but then it's all for nothing because nobody gets prosecuted.
(I did not use the word men for a reason.)
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 27 2014, @06:32PM
There's a lot of things you can do to keep women around you safe from rapists (other than not raping them, obviously). Some of the things that women mentioned on these [thestranger.com] threads [wordpress.com] on the subject:
- Interrupting interactions between a woman and somebody who is acting creepy or abusive, just by saying something.
- If you are in a position of power, make sure inappropriate behavior has consequences e.g. kicking someone out of a group for harassing women. If you aren't in a position of power, report this kind of thing to the people who do have power, and ensure they follow through.
- Comfort and support women who have been raped. /sexually assaulted.
- Make sure female friends who've had too much to drink get home safely, and ideally in the company of at least one female friend of hers.
- Dropping any friends of yours who rape somebody, purely for that.
- If one of your guy friends says or does something out of line in front of you, say that it's wrong, right there, right in front of him and anyone else who's around.
- If you think one of your friends is going to rape somebody, don't leave them out of earshot/eyesight with their target.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by velex on Sunday September 28 2014, @02:18AM
I've thought about this for a long time.
Let's start from a non-cissexist position.
I think you're essentially right. It's about compassion. I know about date rape. You know about date rape. No matter what my gender is, why would I want to fail to protect a friend who has become targeted?
If you aren't in a position of power, report this kind of thing to the people who do have power, and ensure they follow through.
I've actually done this before. It was funny, though, because I later found out that my motion was meaningless. The womyn-born-womyn who I was concerned were being subjected to sexual harassment by a client actually ran with it and enjoyed it. I guess it just shows how out of touch I am. I'm still glad that sleazy client left. Maybe it was just me who was uncomfortable about the situation.
Thanks for the response.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Sunday September 28 2014, @03:54PM
I used cis-gendered terminology for a very specific reason: The vast majority of rapes are cis-gendered straight men raping cis-gendered women. I'm well aware that there is no shortage of other cases, and have numerous trans friends, but in this case I'm targeting the biggest source of the problem.
As far as reporting goes, I'm quite certain you did the right thing, even if the womyn involved enjoyed what this client was doing - the sleazy behavior of that client has no place in business. It also wasn't a meaningless act: Your womyn-born-womyn coworkers learned that their coworkers and employer will support them if they ever decide that they *don't* enjoy it.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by albert on Wednesday September 03 2014, @04:24AM
Was this lady born yesterday? Is she smart enough for college?
I really don't get it. Why would she be accepting drinks that she didn't go fetch herself? Never mind the drug issue, what about germs? The guy could have used his hands to place ice in the glass... after using his hands to wipe or scratch his butt.
Also, I'm going to assume the drink contained ethanol. That is the most popular drug for rape, and nearly everybody can smell it. Heck, never mind the potential for evil: you could fall down the stairs and crack your head.
WHY THE STUPID????
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @12:00AM
Louis CK - There is No Greater Threat to Women Than Men [youtube.com]
That one really gets the misogynists worked up.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Geezer on Wednesday August 27 2014, @09:12AM
Good point. It's perfectly commonplace for a lady to swizzle her drink with a fingertip, and so draws little attention.
I'm all for giving women every edge in spotting and defending against the sort of creeps who can't get laid without resorting to drugs or violence.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:36AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 27 2014, @11:31AM
Not really on-topic anymore, but still:
the vast majority of rapes are committed by men.
According to a news report I saw the other day, in the USA, the majority of rape victims are also men. This was mainly due to rapes in prison. I don't think nail polish will help in preventing prison rapes though.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 27 2014, @02:22PM
It's also rather harder to lose or get your fingers stolen.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"