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from the you-both-get-dirty-and-the-pig-likes-it dept.
McGruber writes:
"Following up on the Bil Nye and Ken Ham debate on Creationism, Creation Museum founder Ken Ham announced Thursday that a municipal bond offering has raised enough money to begin construction on the Ark Encounter project, estimated to cost about $73 million. Groundbreaking is planned for May and the ark is expected to be finished by the summer of 2016. Ham credits the high-profile evolution debate he had with "Science Guy" Bill Nye on Feb. 4 with boosting support for the project.
After learning that the project would move forward, Nye said he was 'heartbroken and sickened for the Commonwealth of Kentucky,' lamenting that the ark would eventually draw more attention to the beliefs of Ham's Young-earth Creationist ministry. 'Voters and taxpayers in Kentucky will eventually see that this is not in their best interest.' Nye hopes."
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bd on Saturday March 01 2014, @08:48AM
This is an aspect of the US that I have always considered quite fascinating as an outside observer.
It seems to be such a country of extremes. On the one hand you have top notch research institutions, a tech industry that is quite forward thinking, a political tradition that is rooted in the separation of church and state, an obscene amount of wealth generated by this rational approach to the world... on the other you have a _lot_ of people that I would _wish_ were insane, but are not. That actively try to dismiss science and push some agenda that is strikingly non-rational. You would think this is not a stable state for a society, that one side clearly must win over time... yet somehow the country has always been like that and never completely tipped to one of the sides.
Very interesting indeed. I guess it sucks living in Kentucky right now, though.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Saturday March 01 2014, @09:09AM
How much irrationality is sane?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bd on Saturday March 01 2014, @09:53AM
It is dangerous to think they are insane. Not many of them run around with their underwear on their heads. I am sure I would have seen that on one of the youtube-like sites.
Chances are, they (well, most of them) are perfectly capable of rational thought. They use their ability of sane thought processes to work towards their agenda. While I consider the agenda they want to achieve irrational, as science is fundamental for the well-being of your (and every other) nation, I am sure they would tend to disagree.
Luckily, there have usually been enough people of differing opinion working towards their own goals that hinder them from achieving theirs. If these were ever to disappear, your country would be in Deep Trouble.
(Score: 3) by BsAtHome on Saturday March 01 2014, @09:55AM
When nutjobs take over, you know that you are in for a hurt. Doesn't matter which "cause" they have or follow. Extremism has always resulted in violence one or the other way and the world is full of examples. When a society gets more extremist, then a change for the worse will most likely follow before a new era of reason can be established.
I'll probably be dead before the US implodes (and maybe explodes afterwards) and that may be for the good. I'd not want to live in that world.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by johaquila on Saturday March 01 2014, @01:21PM
Bob Altemeyer, a Canadian psychology professor who found the behaviour of some of his students fascinating for similar reasons, actually studied it scientifically. The result is his book "The Authoritarians", which has a free online version: https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ [umanitoba.ca]
Let me try to explain what he found out in my own words, as it applies to this topic. These people, whom Altemeyer calls "right-wing authoritarian followers", were conditioned by their own parents into not applying their reason for what most of us consider its normal application, and certainly not to admit it. For them, rationality and rational thinking are just something you have to pretend while you are actually trying to figure out which authority you must follow to avoid being punished, and what it is that this authority wants you to do, think, and most importantly say. It doesn't matter whether it makes sense. You just have to proactively do what you have been, or anticipate to be, told by the authorities that can punish you. (Even left-wing authorities, so long as they are in power!)
So they are not insane, they are just victims of something that you can either call a specific culture, or a form of child abuse. It's not necessarily connected to this, but for example there is also evidence that psychopathy is often a natural reaction to how a child is raised, a reaction necessary to protect the child from even worse damage, rather than something people are necessarily born with. E.g. most African child soldiers become psychopaths because nobody can survive the horror otherwise.
Such aberrations are stable when, as in these two cases, parents who have them normally behave in such a way that their children develop them as well. In the case of right-wing authoritarian followership, Altemeyer also found that experiences with diverse, 'different' people as e.g. at a university helps a little, whereas becoming a parent generally makes it worse.
(Score: 1) by GeriatricGentleman on Saturday March 01 2014, @09:36PM
"university helps a little, whereas becoming a parent generally makes it worse"
So educate or sterilise them? I like it. How do I contribute?
Of course, once we get a foothold on the religious whack-jobs we can extend to the next subset of the population - maybe politicians? Hopefully it won't be too long before we get to my kids - a free full university education would be most welcome! Or if they fail their uni entry - maybe a sponsored o'seas adventure for a year to immerse themselves in a diverse and different culture? Hmm, I might be a little intolerant myself - perhaps I should go too!
As an aside, I am not from the US, when I read "Noah's Ark to built in KY" I confess it took me a second or two of wondering...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 01 2014, @02:10PM
It always sucks living in Kentucky. Right now is not all that special.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 03 2014, @02:59PM
(Score: 0) by cubancigar11 on Saturday March 01 2014, @04:21PM
The tech industry and the top notch research institutions are running because of positive influx of brilliant immigrants. While its narrative in USA is a little convulated because americans have vested interest in opposiing immigration, in reality USA is quite open to immigration. If left to their own devices, these institutions will collapse like they have in rest of the world that is not as open as USA.
(Score: 1) by cubancigar11 on Sunday March 02 2014, @06:33AM
Yet another overzealous modder... sigh.