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Journal by fustakrakich
Watch them wrassle a pair of siamese elephants
Still too close to call...
QOTD:
...Gabbard won by not being there. The dog and pony show conducted by corporate news has adult political aspirants panting like sixth graders for teachers attention. Demeaning to all involved.
Extremely so... Looked like they were begging permission to go to the bathroom.
This has to be part of the Trump campaign. He has them doing a Keystone Cops routine, shooting at each other. What a scene!
Big 501(c) scam, all of this
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
MATH AND ALCOHOL DON'T MIX!
Please, don't drink and derive.
Mathematicians
Against
Drunk
Deriving
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 21 2020, @10:10PM (27 children)
Ah, now the "vote 3rd party they're all corrupt" method of trying to get voters to disenfranchise themselves!
If you're not voting Sanders or Warren then you're one of few options
a) selfish with a helping of evil
b) stupid with a lot of brainwashing
c) not totally stupid with a LOT of brainwashing
Just boggles the mind how "Americans" don't see the clear fascism on display between Trump and Fox. Now the MSM is joining the anti-Bernie fight across the board because their previous tactics aren't working so well. I am a bit shocked to see the dirty tactics here, as others have tried to claim "SN is so small who would bother targeting us." Maybe you're just conservative trolls copying the tactics of the propaganda big boys, who really cares at this point? Stupid for a reason, or just plain stupid doesn't much matter.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 21 2020, @10:47PM (4 children)
Ah! Here come the arsonists to rescue us from the fire!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 21 2020, @11:45PM (3 children)
Very helpful addition to the conversation. Never anything useful, just whinging and stating the obvious "vote in someone better."
Never addressing the fire burning up the country this very second, or the swamp being drained into every aspect of life polluting society and the environment.
It really sucks having to keep swatting you flies, but I guess that is part of your point! Make everyone so tired of the bullshit arguments they just check out. Sorry, but no matter how much you kick up dust on a message board it won't stop my vote.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @12:05AM (2 children)
You are the match, the gas, and the log fueling the fire. And your camera truck is parked on the hose... Do your part and get out of the way!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @03:24AM (1 child)
I am rubber. You are glue. Anything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @03:57AM
Ah, so you're the burning tire... You are the primitives burning the country down
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 22 2020, @01:52AM (18 children)
Frightening as hell isn't it? I've had a similar revelation as of a few months ago, that Sanders and to a lesser extent Warren are the only actual pre-Clinton (as in, pre-1996) Democrats in the room; the others are various kinds of Reaganite. And yes, at this point, a vote for anyone but either Sanders or Warren *is* willful, deliberate evil. Hanlon's Razor ("do not attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance/stupidity) has long since lost its edge in the context of politics.
Thank you for saying this outright. More people need to hear it. We are out of time, maybe have been out of time for years already...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @02:16AM (4 children)
a vote for anyone but either Sanders or Warren *is* willful, deliberate evil.
Frightening indeed! This is the wacky bullshit that makes us cringe and run away
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 22 2020, @05:39AM (3 children)
Door, ass, etc.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @05:53AM (1 child)
:-) That's how Trump wins. You just keep hemorrhaging more votes with your bad attitude.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23 2020, @09:39PM
*You're not the votes we're looking for* /hand_wave
Move along cretin, move along.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 24 2020, @07:17PM
Pot, kettle, etc.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @02:44AM (3 children)
> And yes, at this point, a vote for anyone but either Sanders or Warren *is* willful, deliberate evil.
Translation: "I will be voting for Hillary by the end of the year."
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 22 2020, @05:41AM (2 children)
Buddy, by the end of the year I'll be in Canada if I have any luck at all. If not, and Sanders or Warren are not the nominee, they are getting written in.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @06:23AM
Why would they want you swimming across the border to their country?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @09:07AM
Yes, we know. You are going to the land of blackface to sell poison as directed by US big pharma.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @05:16AM
To a lesser extent... That's funny. Pre-1996, Pocahontas was a Republican (and the first Woman of Color at Harvard Law School, according to the Fordham Law Review).
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @10:19AM (7 children)
Your comment is not helpful. It's a common divisive tactic to claim that those who disagree with you are not acting in what they believe is the best interests of the country. Suggesting that those who support other candidates are working against the best interests of the country is a statement that calls democracy into question. While I don't believe that your intent is to spread Russian propaganda and trolling, the sentiment expressed in your post is consistent with the objectives of Russian meddling in our elections. And Russian trolls have been exploiting a perceived unfairness against Sanders in the primaries to undermine confidence in the American democracy.
You've said that Sanders is a centrist. On the scale of political positions outside of the United States, this is a reasonably fair statement. However, the overall content of your post is saying that voting for anyone right of center is a deliberate act of malice. That is ridiculous an unhelpful. You're effectively saying that anyone who disagrees with your politics is engaging in deliberate evil. That is needlessly divisive and harmful.
I think it's fair to point out that American politics have taken a hard turn to the right over the past 30 years. Reagan and Bush 41 were relatively moderate compared to the present day Republicans. For example, they were far more willing to support environmental laws like the Montreal Protocol than current Republicans. Republicans have moved to the right and Democrats have made a bigger move to the right so that there is little difference between the parties. The problem is that politics are controlled mostly by tribalism, which works because people believe there are significant differences between the two parties when, in fact, the differences are very small. However, this is because of the ignorance of the electorate rather than deliberate evil by the voters.
The DNC has done itself no favors by changing the debate rules to accommodate Bloomberg after he donated to the DNC and one of the PACs. At a minimum, it is an apparent conflict of interest that undermines the perception of fairness. The DNC leadership needs to be ousted over this. I actually do understand your frustration with the Democrats but your conclusion is not helpful. I agree that people need to wake up and see what has happened to American politics. The problem is that voters are ignorant rather than acting with deliberate malice.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 22 2020, @05:52PM (6 children)
One more time: there comes a time when Hanlon's Razor loses its edge. Sorry if my tone...or the truth...bothers you, but there it is. We're out of time, maybe have *been* out of time since the mid-Clinton administration for all I know. We took the wrong leg of the trousers of time when Ford pardoned Nixon.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday February 22 2020, @06:35PM
Out of time for what?
We took the wrong leg of the trousers of time when Ford pardoned Nixon.
They lit that fuse when they nominated Humphrey, the official end of whatever scraps of liberalism existed within the DNC, marking a very prosperous relationship with the GOP. The merger may become official with Bloomberg. He is very juiced in on both sides, making for them, a palatable replacement for Trump. Then, maybe, possibly, a viable opposition will emerge, in maybe 500 years or so.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 22 2020, @08:08PM (4 children)
You're better than this. Tyranny is able to exist when the people are unwilling or unable to come together to stop it. So long as the people are divided, the descent into tyranny will continue. Keeping people divided is an effective strategy for seizing control. Both parties have been doing this for far longer than you're willing to say.
FDR railed against the courts and devised a plan to pack the Supreme Court with judges who would be favorable to him. Republican obstructionism to fill the courts with far right judges is the result of decades of both parties trying to turn the courts in their favor. Almost a century later, the right is still trying to roll back the New Deal. Then there's the interventionism from both parties accelerated at the end of World War II and allowed for the birth of the military-industrial complex. Congress has been ceding its powers to the executive for at least a century. Most of the control over borrowing was given to the executive branch under Wilson as a matter of practicality during World War I and never reclaimed by Congress. Since then, power has gradually been transferred from the legislative branch to the executive branch, centralizing far too much power with the wrong branch of government. If we held American presidents to the same standards as the Nazis, every president from Truman onward would have been tried for war crimes and convicted. Plenty of other high ranking officials like Cheney and Kissinger would also have been convicted and held accountable for war crimes.
This... started way before Ford pardoned Nixon. Way before then.
And it will continue as long as the people remain divided, pretending that Republicans and Democrats are on opposite sides. Keeping the people divided ensures that they won't be an impediment to the descent into tyranny. The issue isn't that half the population or more is evil. The issue is that most Americans are blinded to what's really happening and are content to engage in petty partisan squabbling. The two parties are not significantly different from each other, not enough to make a difference and turn things around. And as long as the people are divided, believing their fellow people are evil, there is nothing to make us turn back.
WAKE UP!
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 23 2020, @08:37AM (3 children)
And you don't think Sanders is horribly disruptive to the corporate Democrats? I'm sure they'd assassinate him if they could. Remember how Ocasio-Cortes made the point that she and Biden, in a parliamentary system, wouldn't be in the same party? Sanders has the corrupt Dems in a bind.
For my part, I've had enough. I've given up on the US and am trying to get the fuck out of here across the northern border as soon as possible, preferably before the next election. Shit's fucked and it's going to take at least 50 years to fix even in the best case.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23 2020, @10:06AM (2 children)
The motivation you're describing for supporting Sanders is very much the same reason many people supported Trump. They felt their needs were neglected by establishment Democrats and Republicans and wanted an outsider, willing even to tolerate someone like Trump. They're not necessarily racist or even supportive of racism, but they hold their noses and tolerate Trump. A lot of elderly people are particularly vulnerable to misinformation, telling them things like all the criticism of Trump is just lies created by the deep state. The propaganda changes their worldview and it leads them down a rabbit hole. I object to characterizing people as evil because many of them are actually being exploited by the alt-right propaganda machine.
I've seen family and friends get sucked in by the alt-right and the alt-lite to the point that they genuinely believe a totally different set of "facts" than everyone else. They're not evil. They're victims of being brainwashed by alt-right and alt-lite propaganda, which actually is evil. The most insidious evil isn't the type that dresses up in white sheets, wears pointy hats, and burns crosses. That's easy to spot. They're much sneakier. intentionally drawing misleading conclusions from initially true statements or pretending to be reasonable and rational. They begin with something that's reasonably true, then reach a more outlandish conclusion that might seem reasonable if you don't scrutinize it enough. Once people begin to accept the initial misinformation, then they're more willing to accept bigger conspiracy theories and lies.
People begin by rightly believing that the two parties don't truly represent their interests and are basically two sides of the same coin. They're willing to accept that our leaders are very corrupt but are fed misinformation about the nature of that corruption. Many of the people supporting Trump began from a similar place of disillusionment as your own. Begin from a reasonable position that the DNC is unfair and many of the Democratic candidates don't share the values of the people. Sneak in some misinformation about the nature of the corruption, stuff like pizzagate or the murder of Seth Rich, then build even bigger conspiracy theories and lies around that. Then tell people that Trump is an outsider who is under attack because he wants to eliminate that corruption and he's being fought at every opportunity. Or begin with the story of an immigrant who commits a heinous crime. We have enough immigrants that, statistically speaking, there are going to be a few nasty criminals mixed in. But tell the stories of a few criminals and convince people that they're actually representative of the people entering this country.
And plenty of Democrats would tell you that the right is actually evil, that the people voting for Trump are awful. Rather than calling out the brainwashing and propaganda for what they are, instead you dehumanize anyone who supports Trump or the GOP. Rather than finding some common ground and working to undo the alt-right brainwashing, these people are viewed as the enemy and you're supposed to be angry with them. In the process, you're fulfilling some of the message of alt-right and alt-lite propaganda.
The DNC isn't interested in doing what's right for the people. It's about defeating Trump, even if it means electing a candidate who is truly awful. I'm no fan of Biden, but Bloomberg is truly awful. He's not even a real Democrat, plus he's a racist and a sexist. He doesn't understand the concerns of ordinary Americans. But he has the resources to launch a massive ad campaign and to make large donations to the DNC and PACs. The DNC changed the rules so Bloomberg could participate in the debates. This is about electing someone who supposedly can defeat Trump rather than any sort of principle. And Bloomberg might well win the nomination in a contested convention. Bloomberg won't bring about the change we need. He's less of a Democrat than Biden or Klobuchar.
And you're damned right that Sanders is scary to the DNC because they can't control him and he's not part of the establishment. Bloomberg is basically Hillary 2.0, extremely wealthy, out of touch with ordinary Americans, and not even a Democrat at all. But Bloomberg plays nice with the establishment. Bloomberg won't energize Democrats and get enough turnout to defeat Trump. It's a losing proposition. The idea that Sanders can't beat Trump is a lie. A good portion of Trump voters can relate to Sanders far more easily than Bloomberg. He will also energize a significant segment of the Democrat base that just isn't interested in supporting a candidate like Bloomberg.
I support Bernie. Nebraska's primary is very late but it might well be meaningful this year. You bet I'll be voting for Bernie in May. And hopefully he'll be on the ballot in November so I can vote for him again. I just refuse to dehumanize people who are victims of the propaganda and brainwashing, who have been sucked in by the misinformation. We don't despite or dehumanize the victims of tyrannical regimes in places like the Middle East and North Korea. We should apply that same standard to our fellow Americans as well, understanding that many of them are also victims of propaganda and lies.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 23 2020, @04:44PM
I agree with basically everything you've said, but something's broken inside me. I don't have any more faith in the US or the American people any longer. Right now all my energy has to go into getting the hell out of dodge and somewhere civilized--north of the border seems the most realistic choice--before it all goes to hell and takes me down with it. And some of the premonitions I've been getting recently are telling me that it's already too late, that I'm not going to make it. At this point I simply cannot spare any more time or energy for evil or stupid people like that. "He who is filthy, let him be filthy still" and all that.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23 2020, @09:48PM
Dehumanizing?
a) selfish with a helping of evil
b) stupid with a lot of brainwashing
c) not totally stupid with a LOT of brainwashing
Nowhere in there is anything about them not being human. Selfish, possibly evil, some amount of stupid, and probably brainwashed. Covers just about everything you said above, but isn't coddling people.
You do realize that one of the big complaints conservatives have is that liberals are fake? That all the nice words are lies, that liberals are the real racists, etc.? No one likes being treated like a child, so I have given up trying to be nice about it and have stated simple facts. If you are not a millionaire++ in the US and you're not supporting Sanders or Warren then you're A, B, or C. Plenty of humans are dumb, selfish, and misinformed. Not even a partisan thing as the DNC and MSM are making abundantly clear.
We are in a class war and there is no time for the kiddie gloves.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 22 2020, @01:43PM (2 children)
Or Trump. Third party all the way! Sorry, I consider these candidates among the worst that the Democrat Party has to offer this year - huge spending programs with hazy schemes for paying those off. Very Trumpian, if you ask me. And of course, if Congress doesn't play ball and give them what they want, they'll executive order their way out of the bag. Not a clue between them.
So what? Show it's a problem first. Biased media has been around for centuries. We've figured out how to deal with it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23 2020, @09:52PM (1 child)
You don't get it, there is plenty of very real fascism. Currently it gets wrapped into "corruption" since officially the fascism is mostly illegal. Mostly.
Civil asset forfeiture, corporate lobbying, targeted harassment of minorities, systemic racism of all sorts.
Taxes would go up a bit, society would improve, and corporate subsidies would mostly be eliminated. It is very simple to pay for the programs, just selfish assholes like you prefer the rich being able to rob the poor. Literally.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday February 24 2020, @04:59AM
I remember when that word, "fascism" used to mean something.
For a good example.