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Journal by fustakrakich
Watch them wrassle a pair of siamese elephants
Still too close to call...
QOTD:
...Gabbard won by not being there. The dog and pony show conducted by corporate news has adult political aspirants panting like sixth graders for teachers attention. Demeaning to all involved.
Extremely so... Looked like they were begging permission to go to the bathroom.
This has to be part of the Trump campaign. He has them doing a Keystone Cops routine, shooting at each other. What a scene!
Big 501(c) scam, all of this
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
All good ideas look like bad ideas to those who are losers.
-- Dilbert
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23 2020, @10:06AM (2 children)
The motivation you're describing for supporting Sanders is very much the same reason many people supported Trump. They felt their needs were neglected by establishment Democrats and Republicans and wanted an outsider, willing even to tolerate someone like Trump. They're not necessarily racist or even supportive of racism, but they hold their noses and tolerate Trump. A lot of elderly people are particularly vulnerable to misinformation, telling them things like all the criticism of Trump is just lies created by the deep state. The propaganda changes their worldview and it leads them down a rabbit hole. I object to characterizing people as evil because many of them are actually being exploited by the alt-right propaganda machine.
I've seen family and friends get sucked in by the alt-right and the alt-lite to the point that they genuinely believe a totally different set of "facts" than everyone else. They're not evil. They're victims of being brainwashed by alt-right and alt-lite propaganda, which actually is evil. The most insidious evil isn't the type that dresses up in white sheets, wears pointy hats, and burns crosses. That's easy to spot. They're much sneakier. intentionally drawing misleading conclusions from initially true statements or pretending to be reasonable and rational. They begin with something that's reasonably true, then reach a more outlandish conclusion that might seem reasonable if you don't scrutinize it enough. Once people begin to accept the initial misinformation, then they're more willing to accept bigger conspiracy theories and lies.
People begin by rightly believing that the two parties don't truly represent their interests and are basically two sides of the same coin. They're willing to accept that our leaders are very corrupt but are fed misinformation about the nature of that corruption. Many of the people supporting Trump began from a similar place of disillusionment as your own. Begin from a reasonable position that the DNC is unfair and many of the Democratic candidates don't share the values of the people. Sneak in some misinformation about the nature of the corruption, stuff like pizzagate or the murder of Seth Rich, then build even bigger conspiracy theories and lies around that. Then tell people that Trump is an outsider who is under attack because he wants to eliminate that corruption and he's being fought at every opportunity. Or begin with the story of an immigrant who commits a heinous crime. We have enough immigrants that, statistically speaking, there are going to be a few nasty criminals mixed in. But tell the stories of a few criminals and convince people that they're actually representative of the people entering this country.
And plenty of Democrats would tell you that the right is actually evil, that the people voting for Trump are awful. Rather than calling out the brainwashing and propaganda for what they are, instead you dehumanize anyone who supports Trump or the GOP. Rather than finding some common ground and working to undo the alt-right brainwashing, these people are viewed as the enemy and you're supposed to be angry with them. In the process, you're fulfilling some of the message of alt-right and alt-lite propaganda.
The DNC isn't interested in doing what's right for the people. It's about defeating Trump, even if it means electing a candidate who is truly awful. I'm no fan of Biden, but Bloomberg is truly awful. He's not even a real Democrat, plus he's a racist and a sexist. He doesn't understand the concerns of ordinary Americans. But he has the resources to launch a massive ad campaign and to make large donations to the DNC and PACs. The DNC changed the rules so Bloomberg could participate in the debates. This is about electing someone who supposedly can defeat Trump rather than any sort of principle. And Bloomberg might well win the nomination in a contested convention. Bloomberg won't bring about the change we need. He's less of a Democrat than Biden or Klobuchar.
And you're damned right that Sanders is scary to the DNC because they can't control him and he's not part of the establishment. Bloomberg is basically Hillary 2.0, extremely wealthy, out of touch with ordinary Americans, and not even a Democrat at all. But Bloomberg plays nice with the establishment. Bloomberg won't energize Democrats and get enough turnout to defeat Trump. It's a losing proposition. The idea that Sanders can't beat Trump is a lie. A good portion of Trump voters can relate to Sanders far more easily than Bloomberg. He will also energize a significant segment of the Democrat base that just isn't interested in supporting a candidate like Bloomberg.
I support Bernie. Nebraska's primary is very late but it might well be meaningful this year. You bet I'll be voting for Bernie in May. And hopefully he'll be on the ballot in November so I can vote for him again. I just refuse to dehumanize people who are victims of the propaganda and brainwashing, who have been sucked in by the misinformation. We don't despite or dehumanize the victims of tyrannical regimes in places like the Middle East and North Korea. We should apply that same standard to our fellow Americans as well, understanding that many of them are also victims of propaganda and lies.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 23 2020, @04:44PM
I agree with basically everything you've said, but something's broken inside me. I don't have any more faith in the US or the American people any longer. Right now all my energy has to go into getting the hell out of dodge and somewhere civilized--north of the border seems the most realistic choice--before it all goes to hell and takes me down with it. And some of the premonitions I've been getting recently are telling me that it's already too late, that I'm not going to make it. At this point I simply cannot spare any more time or energy for evil or stupid people like that. "He who is filthy, let him be filthy still" and all that.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 23 2020, @09:48PM
Dehumanizing?
a) selfish with a helping of evil
b) stupid with a lot of brainwashing
c) not totally stupid with a LOT of brainwashing
Nowhere in there is anything about them not being human. Selfish, possibly evil, some amount of stupid, and probably brainwashed. Covers just about everything you said above, but isn't coddling people.
You do realize that one of the big complaints conservatives have is that liberals are fake? That all the nice words are lies, that liberals are the real racists, etc.? No one likes being treated like a child, so I have given up trying to be nice about it and have stated simple facts. If you are not a millionaire++ in the US and you're not supporting Sanders or Warren then you're A, B, or C. Plenty of humans are dumb, selfish, and misinformed. Not even a partisan thing as the DNC and MSM are making abundantly clear.
We are in a class war and there is no time for the kiddie gloves.