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The Latest Hydroxychloroquine Data, As of April 11:
We have new data on hydroxychloroquine therapy to discuss. The numbers will not clear anything up.
The good news is that the HCQ/sulfasalazine comparison does not show any real differences in adverse events over one-month courses of treatment. I should note that sulfasalazine is not the most side-effect-free medication in the whole pharmacopeia, but it has not been associated with (for example) QT prolongation, which is one of the things you worry about with hydroxychloroquine. The paper concludes that short-term HCQ monotherapy does appear to be safe, but notes that long-term HCQ dosing is indeed tied to increased cardiovascular mortality.
The trouble comes in with the azithromycin combination. Like many antibiotics (although not amoxicillin), AZM is in fact tied to QT prolongation in some patients, so what happens when it's given along with HCQ, which has the same problem?
Worryingly, significant risks are identified for combination users of HCQ+AZM even in the short-term as proposed for COVID19 management, with a 15-20% increased risk of angina/chest pain and heart failure, and a two-fold risk of cardiovascular mortality in the first month of treatment.
That isn't good. I am very glad to hear that the Raoult group has observed no cardiac events in their studies so far, but I wonder how they have managed to be so fortunate, given these numbers.
Update: here is another new preprint from a multinational team lead out of Brazil. It enrolled 81 patients in a trial of high-dose hydroxychloroquine (600 mg b.i.d. over ten days, total dose 12g) or low-dose (450mg b.i.d. on the first day, qd thereafter for the next four, total dose 2.7g). All patients also received azithromycin and ceftriaxone (a cephalosporin antibiotic). The high-dose patients showed more severe QT prolongation and there a trend toward higher lethality compared to the low dose. The overall fatality rate across both arms of the study was 13.5% (so far), which they say overlaps with the historical fatality rate of patients not receiving hydroxychloroquine. The authors actually had to stop recruiting patients for the high-dose arm of the study due to the cardiovascular events, but they're continuing to enroll people in the low-dose group to look at overall mortality. The paper mentions that HCQ has been mandated as the standard therapy in Brazil, so there is no way to run a non-HCQ control group, though.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @01:31AM (5 children)
The climate change denying French doctor? God help us all.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by driverless on Monday April 13 2020, @02:34AM (4 children)
Thanks for that bit of info. Did a bit of checking on him, he sounds like rather a nutcase, doesn't believe in control groups or randomisation in clinical trials and a bunch of other stuff. It's perfectly OK to be a maverick/eccentric if you're an artist, but not when lives are at stake.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @03:40AM (3 children)
Many of the most amazing medical discoveries from the years come would never have come from sober and cautious thought.
Penicillin is the most obvious example. It was discovered entirely by accident. A scientist inadvertently left a petri dish of bacteria. A bluish green mold had formed among it, likely due to a nearby open window. However, there was inhibited bacterial growth around the mold. The scientist isolated the mould, cultured pure samples and validated his discovery. It actually took years for it to be accepted by the medical profession at large because of how absurd it sounds. If you don't get the implication here - the way you treat bacterial infections, what antibiotics originally were derived from, is that nasty blue-green mold that emerges on rot. Sounds like an awesome thing to inject into somebody with an infection!
Chemotherapy is another. We have German chemical weapons and World War 1 to thank here. It was observed in the victims of mustard gas that it dramatically inhibited cell division and replication. It wasn't long after that that they were injecting humans with what was essentially a chemical weapon, and reaping immense rewards for it.
And many more throughout the decades and centuries. Vaccines were discovered in a similar fashion. It was observed that the milk maids who caught cow pox seemed to never get smallpox. So let's intentionally give people cowpox! Turns out it was a really good idea. Interestingly from the discovery and confirmation of the study it would end up taking around 50 more years for the worldwide medical profession to accept it. Again, just sounds kind of crazy literally giving people cowpox.
Modern medicine more geared towards producing profitable drugs than anything that can actually help people. It's macabre but there's no doubt that part of the reason that there was little enthusiasm for e.g. vitamin C (massive dosing of which has also shown positive effects against corona) or hydroxychloroquine is because they're not profitable. Hydroxychloroquine is a 50 year old drug, and vitamin C is effectively free. Ideally making money and making drugs that actually help people would be the same thing, but they're not. See things such as the hyper-rapid growth in psychotropic medication use in the US which on the macro level is not only *not* showing results, but seems to be having an adverse effect given the crazy high rise of mental illness in the US. People are popping pills, going crazy, and pharmaceutical companies are getting rich off it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:03AM
All of those results included testing with control groups. You're missing the point?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Monday April 13 2020, @03:01PM (1 child)
Discovery happens by accident all the time.
Verifying that your discovery is actually real is where the science comes in.
Verifying your real discovery doesn't have murderous side effects is where the medical testing comes in.
Completing all three is when you get to start selling it to end users.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday April 14 2020, @05:07AM
And specifically for hydroxychloroquine, the Brazilian trial had a 13.5% fatality rate, which makes it more deadly than Covid19. This is exactly why we have clinical trials.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 13 2020, @01:43AM (40 children)
As the coronavirus *is* a virus, azithromycin shouldn't really be doing anything directly to it--my guess is that since azithromycin is commonly used to treat community-acquired pneumonia, its efficacy is in preventing pneumonia from getting a toehold.
But as has been stated, azithromycin itself and hydroxychloroquine both predispose the patient to QT interval disturbances. Given this virus is supposedly also capable of infecting heart muscle, and that many patients already have cardiovascular conditions/comorbodities to begin with, I wonder if doxycycline or another of the standard tetracycline antibiotics (NOT tigecycline though!) might be a better choice here...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @02:25AM (33 children)
See subject: I've spoken to others, even EDUCATED men (like my own brother, Col. John Kowalski US Army Field grade bronze star decorated) who didn't see why an antibiotic was used. Yes, antibiotics are only good vs. bacterial attackers (why is next IF you don't know how they work) BUT think SIZE differentials involved here:
Corona avg. size iirc is 1-2 microns. Bacteria are FAR LARGER & to a virus (not in & OF ITSELF "evil", it just wants to replicate like DNA does though it's ONLY 'nuclear material' oddly & inert 'crystal' outside a living organism)?
Thus, a bacterial organism is the SIZE OF A CAR vs. a virus' size & yes, bacterium is also sustenance + replication vehicle as well as ingress into OTHER cells, like ours. So to that virus, it SLIPS INSIDE riding inside even bacterium, like you get into a car.
Thus, cutting off bacteria OUT-MULTIPLYING a bodily defense/immunity system, cuts down how a virus can invade. This use of ZITHROMYCIN (zithromax) cuts DOWN this POTENTIAL INGRESS AVENUE too & additionally LIGHTENS THE LOAD of what your lymphocytes + leukocytes have to battle. That's key. Not getting OUTNUMBERED or DISTRACTED by "lesser opponents" matters in gang fights.
ZINC is key here (big viral inhibitor by inhibiting cell mechanisms for it in iirc, RNA recombination during mitochondrial processes for cell division) is ANOTHER PROTECTION (big one). QUININE AIDS IN ZINC ABSORPTION INTO CELLS iirc also. I took courses in GENETICS ages ago, so I hope I am accurate here after that long (decade++ now since).
* I hope you found that helpful & I think I've been FAIRLY ACCURATE as to the "WHY" of why quinine works (as it did vs. malaria, which made the british soldiery superior in & of itself alone vs. nations afflicted by THAT bacterial killer - the opposing nation's armies WEAK w/ sickness - Brits weren't DUE to quinine's effectiveness vs. malaria - hence WHY "tonic water", which true tonic water HAS quinine in it, is called a TONIC)...
Lack of ZINC is also WHY a "decathalon athlete" died of CORONA/WUHAN/COVID-19 virus that I heard of... having been a former NCAA athlete myself, I can tell you POINT-BLANK that HEAVY WORKOUTS nowadays w/ this virus pandemic in place is NOT THE GREATEST IDEA - why?
When you workout hard, you deplete your zinc. I learned that during my time as a "jock" in the "halcyon days of yore"... Highest source of ZINC in food? Kidney Beans (so if you like to make Chile? You're setup nice).
Other Anti-Viral Foods you can look into (that I like @ least) are RAW GARLIC which is ALSO a great antibacterial too, 2 for the price of 1 (yea, makes you smell TERRIBLE but it IS a good one), parsly, Vitamin D3 (milk iirc gives you that & SUNLIGHT produces it under your skin (part of WHY winter time inside periods tend to make VIRAL EPIDEMIC/PANDEMICS explode)), Vitamin A (liverwurst I like provides a TON of this) & yes, there are many others.
Good FOOD/NUTRITION + solid sleep = your BEST pals (along w/ avoiding stress).
APK
P.S.=> I'm the GUY that YOUR MOTHER warned you about, lol... apk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @03:36AM
Oh, even more grate! The Zinc fanatic is here! Alex Jones has upped the ante! Got to go Silver now to get into the hookum medicine trade! Or Paladium! That's the ticket! Former jock? Andrew? That you?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @05:38AM (3 children)
No surprise that you'd be promoting "cures" that don't actually work. Hosts don't prevent malware. Zinc doesn't prevent or cure viruses. Your work is just shit and you live in a shithole $1 house in the slums of Syracuse.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @10:18PM (2 children)
I "apologized" to you TRANNY twisto https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?cid=937346&sid=35327 [soylentnews.org] ? FUCK NO, not ever: That's NOT me but I DESTROYED YOU PUBLICLY on every level including proving you barb stalk me on THIS SITE https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] with more proof QUOTED FROM YOU DIRECTLY barbara (tom) hudson proving are a technical incompetent brain-damaged transsexual fool BULLSHIT ARTIST FUCKUP worthless creep that also failed on tech vs. me.
My post LITERALLY also shows links to stopping hundreds of threats of MANY KINDS via hosts (since 99% of malicious threats online use hostnames - block them as I do in hosts (less overhead vs. ANYTHING else by FAR & pure kernelmode TCP/IP stack efficient no less)? Can't TOUCH you nor you it. That's ONLY a 1 year only as a sample and I'd done TONS MORE many hundreds more at slashdot before that and yes 99% use hostnames so hosts work against them harming you).
So much for your usual lies barb and useless online troll chatterbox you has never done better work and I fairly challenged you to show you did. You have not.
NOW: You RESORTING TO IMPERSONATING ME on your end only PROVES I really got to you barb/tom hudson tranny.
So much so you are reduced to showing us your true scum bag self in fact. Thought YOU were going to SUE me? LMAO for what? FACTS ABOUT YOU??? LOL!
* YOU WILL ALWAYS FAIL vs. me just as you FAILED @ being a MAN & since you couldn't GET ANY PUSSY you (lmao) DECIDED in your DRUG ADDLED BRAIN to SLICE OFF YOUR COCK & build your OWN pussy (only way you'd "get some", ever).... OMG!
Only thing that "looks like SHIT" is you you FUCKED UP abomination of desolation freak.
APK
P.S.=> Hey FREAK? I'm going to PUBLICLY EMBARRASS YOUR ASS SO BAD on this site you will have to SLINK AROUND IN SHAME publicly but then, "your kind" (massive MASSIVE total losers in life) are USED to that, aren't you? You don't LIKE IT but I LOVE doing it, exposing you as the TRASH you are fucker... apk
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @11:02PM (1 child)
I see you've been quite busy spamming about hosts [soylentnews.org] and posting personal attacks [soylentnews.org]. Clearly you have nothing better to do with your life. Barbara Hudson pretty much owns you because you obsess over her. She can post a couple of comments and you'll spend your whole day spamming replies that continually get modded down. Face it, Barbara Hudson is your god.
And you really should stay away from fake news like Infowars. You also clearly don't know anything about medicine, otherwise you wouldn't post such embarrassing nonsense. Maybe you'll finally learn by getting coronavirus, refusing actual medical treatment in favor of taking zinc supplements, and die because you followed bogus "medical" advice instead of actually being treated.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:53PM
barbara hudson tranny apk totally owned you here https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] with facts of your multiple failings against him in tech and otherwise. Additionally, it's clear you are caught putting out impersonations of apk too? How embarassing for you tranny weirdo. Just as embarassing as being the parody of a human being you are.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 13 2020, @02:38PM (2 children)
I don't know about zinc scientifically, but I do take 30mg a day along with 2000IU of D3 and 3-4g of vitamin C. They just make me feel good normally, and while I'm constantly catching viruses, they also never get past the "minor sore throat and tiredness" phase.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 24 2020, @02:09PM (1 child)
Zinc is useful for the male reproductive system. More zinc = more spunk. Only a small amount is needed.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 25 2020, @12:15AM
I didn't know that. I was thinking more along the lines of unisex applications, such as its roles in immune response or metallothionein function--these latter being proteins whose cysteine content seems to allow them to bind metals such as copper and, yes, zinc.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday April 13 2020, @02:41PM (1 child)
Zinc may be key, but dose is important. Too much Zinc injures the immune system as much as too little.
*IF* you're zinc deficient, then, indeed, it will damage your immune system. But too much is just as bad. Fortunately there's a reasonable range of safe levels, but it's not as safe to go wild with as, say, Vitamin C.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:33PM
I just lick the zinc whiskers off the solder on the motherboard in my desktop tower. Avoids shorts, and keeps me virii-free!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @08:01PM (22 children)
I realize that you are speaking about bacterial versus virus sizes, but your numbers are off. The novel coronavirus has been sized at about 70-90 nm ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7045880/pdf/ophrp-11-3.pdf [nih.gov] ), over an order of magnitude smaller than what you suggest. The largest coronaviruses are about 120 nm (or .12 microns). You are correct that bacteria are typically larger, from about 300 nm to 5 or even 10 microns long by about 1 micron wide.
Yes, viral bacteriophages exist. However, I am not aware that coronavirus is a bacteriophage. If the virus isn't actually geared to invade the bacteria it will not be able to do so, any more than a pin can penetrate a steel plate. Do you have any proof that coronavirus acts that way, or are you speculating?
As to Zinc... one might recall why Zicam was pulled off the market. And like just about everything else, overloading on anything (including Zinc) carries side effects one might want to think about, including lethargy and nausea/vomiting.
The rest of what you say seems to be about the same level of "science," i.e. you have no proof to offer.
But yes, you are right that avoiding stress, good nutrition and good sleep, along with being active, are always recommendable.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @10:26PM (21 children)
https://www.brighteon.com/a1ef57f8-7624-431a-a792-c7ec4a1eb152 [brighteon.com] & YOU asked for proofs? LOL - there ya go & I can supply more (from the worst infected state of all, JEWS are why as the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN being STRUCK DOWN in NYC). There are doctors experiencing HUGE SUCCESSES via zithromycin, quinine & zinc (like 99% of all cases CURED IN HOURS/DAYS) but your JUDEN MEDIA doesn't want it out (per JEW FUCKFACES saying they want TRUMP GONE & the USA in DEPRESSION like Bill Maher (whose JEW NOSE I'd LOVE TO CRUSH with one good punch that FUCKING scum JEW)).
* Do yourself a favor - ask for more proofs - I've got them BY THE TRUCKLOAD vs. your "doubting Thomas" BULLSHIT... nitpicking fuck you are.
APK
P.S.=> Your moderators are TRYING & FAILING @ holding me out & I LOVE THAT more than anything - IMPOSING my WILL vs. you whimps, easily... lol... apk
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday April 14 2020, @05:01AM (16 children)
I have a question for you, Alex, and it's serious and not being asked in malice or mockery: do you suffer from schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, or any similar disability? And if so, are you able to get any medicines or therapy for it? I'm not a fan of the antipsychotics, especially not the "typical" ones like haloperidol, but if this is your normal state you are completely unable to function in day-to-day life.
What exactly happened to you? I remember from back in the days lurking on /. seeing you and wondering about this...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 14 2020, @08:27PM (15 children)
See subject & thing is, there ARE MULTIPLE "versions" of me here since jerks here have stooped SO LOW as to try "IMPERSONATE" me (with proof I have of it) - so, yes, I can see saying that after scum impersonate me MULTIPLE times here https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37044&page=1&cid=982665#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] (I replied to Runaway1956 afterward explaining WHY & WHO (barbara hudson) is behind it (since I kicked the SHIT outta that fucked up ABOMINATION of DESOLATION tranny weirdo for attacking me first AND quoted ADMITTING she stalked/harassed me ASKING OTHERS TO JOIN "IT" (tranny shim/heshe) IN IT + her NUMEROUS FAILS vs. me on hosts, pascal vs. C/C++ & FAR more here https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] proving EVERY SINGLE WORD I state is TRUTH & FACT, verifiable, concrete & UNDENIABLE ) & here too https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37046&page=1&cid=982303#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] (small eh? Wouldn't think so AFTER I STICK IT UP THE ASS of the puny little bitch worm who said it who IMPERSONATES me (barb)).
* MOST OF ALL, barbara hudson TRIED TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I "APOLOGIZED" To that TRANNY abomination? LOL https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=35327&page=1&cid=937346#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] please - after the ASS KICKING IT GOT FROM ME, PUBLICLY that proved barb hudson is a MORON OF THE HIGHEST ORDER & A BULLSHITTER WHEN IT COMES TO COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY (& it says it's SO SMART, lol - not) in the 2nd link above from the top?? Please...
What a pack of SCUM infests forums these days - scum that TALKS A BIG GAME but when it comes to actually producing ANYTHING OF VALUE, the TALKERS are shown for what they are - mere TALK - & talk's cheap, anyone can do THAT (unlike myself who HAS for decades produced things of actual value for others in the art & science of computing (which I confronted barbara hudson BIG TALKER BLABBER MOUTH TRANNY ON TOO, & ZERO out of her, just "hotairware/notthereware").
APK
P.S.=> I don't have any issues like you speak of - & QUIT TRYING TO PLAY "SiDeWaLk ShRiNk of SOYLENTNEWS" w/ me honey - you don't have the credentials OR means to do so. Now I am going to ask YOU a FAIR QUESTION too in return for my answer earlier to you - DO YOU LIKE BEING PART OF A NEST OF DECEITFUL LITTLE FAKENAMES ONLINE RATS HERE? If so, I am sorry to have KNOWN anyone like you OR YOUR "ilk" (scum & weasels/punks, nothing more - real human shit)... apk
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 15 2020, @12:24AM (14 children)
So that's a "yes" to schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorder and a "no" to "am taking meds for said disorder" then...?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:46PM (13 children)
You're the one that has a mental disability in that you can't read obviously after he proved others impersonated him. You also seem to have a lot of experience with antipsychotic drugs personally which only projects further you are the one with mental issues. You've also proven yourself stupid in doing your projection by accusation.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday April 17 2020, @12:53AM (12 children)
As a pharmacy technician by trade, and furthermore one who got a perfect score on the national qualifiers, you are *damn right* I know a lot about antipsychotic drugs. I have to. I also know a lot about, for example, long-acting muscarinic antagonists; does that mean I have COPD? Or chronic pain, since I know about opioids? Does knowing about beta-blockers mean I have a heart condition? Dumbass.
You're either a sockpuppet or some pathetic friend of his, and in either case, you're an idiot.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 17 2020, @04:18AM (1 child)
It's an APK sockpuppet. Whenever APK got backed into a corner on Slashdot, he would "disappear" and his sockpuppet would "appear" to continue arguing for him. Of course, the sockpuppet had exactly the same writing style as APK.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2020, @04:50PM
Azuma Hazuki fakename pill pushing pimp wannabe "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of SOYLENTNEWS" (minus degrees in it of course) BLOWN AWAY with ease by APK using facts https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37033&page=1&cid=984592#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] hahahahaha!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 18 2020, @04:40PM (9 children)
PROVE you are a MERE 'tech' you FAKENAME fuck online - good luck & does THAT qualify YOU to break the GOLDWATER RULE in accusing (or even insinuating) onto others of being "mental" minus a formal psychiatric exam given in a professional psychiatric environs also STUPID?
No, it doesn't - FUCKER, you are TOO STUPID to live... you don't HAVE any REAL PROOF of your bullshit. None/Zero/Nada/Zip... but that's all you EVER have in life, isn't it?
* Even IF you COULD PROVE (which you can't) you ARE a mere pill pushing pimp, that doesn't make you a psychiatric pro stupid... but my calling you STUPID is completely clean on the grounds above & your SELF-PROCLAIMED "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of SOYLENTNEWS" 'status' (lol).
APK
P.S.=> It's been a REAL PLEASURE showing the PLANET how totally FUCKING DUMB you really are - & I thank you for that + the opportunity to BLOW YOU AWAY easily (notice all your downmods of my post went away too, lol - you & all "your kind" (fakename forums fucks) lose vs. me as always).... apk
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 19 2020, @01:55AM (8 children)
I'm not dumb enough to post my actual PTCB registration number on this forum, Jesus. What kind of proof would you accept?
As to "fake name," my real one is visible (Marissa van Eck) and if you went through enough trouble you could probably locate me in meatspace since I'm not bouncing my posts through a friend's Linode as of last May. But even if you did, so what? What are you going to do, try and tell the pharmacy I work at that I'm not an actual certified tech, when I have the physical printout of my test scores and certificate of accredition frames and hanging in the office?
"Azuma Hazuki" is more or less "Jane Doe from Tokyo," with "Azuma" being one reading of the same character that gives the city its "To-" part of its name. "Hazuki" is the archaic name for the old 8th Lunar month, more or less "Augusta" in English the way some girls are called April, May, or June. The name is a callsign for friends from high school and college to recognize me if they ever by chance come here, and has some heavy symbolic meaning to me.
You're not well, Alex. You somehow manage to type the way I imagine a paranoid schizophrenic talks, which is either sad beyond words or an impressive piece of method acting. Get help. There is treatment available for the psychotic class of disorder and not all of it is those awful -done drugs.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @02:53AM (4 children)
Marissa Van Eck: Do you WANT to be sued? To wit: You ARE more than merely insinuating I am "mentally ill" etc. - DO YOU HAVE A FORMAL PROFESSIONAL PSYCHIATRIC EXAM given to ME in a professional psychiatric environs saying I am? NO. Are YOU a degreed & licensed practicing psychiatric pro yourself?? NO again.
* QUESTION: DO YOU REALIZE YOU ARE NOW CAPABLE OF BEING SUED FOR LIBEL OF MYSELF in public based on the GOLDWATER RULE, stupid?
APK
P.S.=> See, the wonderful thing here, is this: You claim to be a PILL PUSHING PIMP but don't prove it (figures from "your kind", FAKENAMES online) when you were asked & CHUMP? CLUE: That does NOT give YOU the right to LIBEL me that way (especially since you have NO FACTS TO BACK YOU). Secondly, I put out information in my parent post that a "von braino" (meaning stupid from me to YOU, lol, because you clearly are stupid) wasn't aware of "Dr. WANNABE" (the "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of SOYLENTNEWS" = FAKENAME cartoon character PHANTASYLAND dumbo CUNT in you, "Azuka VON DUMBO" = lol)... apk
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @06:12AM (3 children)
That would be hilarious if you tried. Absolutely no judge or jury would rule in your favor. Suing for defamation requires that you prove actual damages from the alleged defamatory statements. You've absolutely trashed your reputation across multiple sites to the point that there isn't a whole lot that can damage it further. If you truly cared about your reputation, you would have conducted yourself in a civil and decent manner online. Frankly speaking, Azuma is being quite charitable toward you by attributing your behavior to severe mental illness rather than you being a complete asshole. If you sued Azuma for defamation, you would lose and be responsible for paying her attorney fees.
Whining about libel is rich coming from you, considering you've harassed and lied about many people. The list includes c6gunner, webmistressrachel, amicusNYCL, Coren22, arth1, barbara hudson, and many others. That doesn't include the vicious personal attacks you continue to lob against people like Thor Schrock. You've made veiled threats to conduct denial of service attacks against both Slashdot and SoylentNews as well as posting vicious personal attacks against Logan Abbott. You continue to spam antisemitic comments [soylentnews.org] just like you did on Slashdot. Anonymous posting was disabled on Slashdot in large part due to your antisemitic spam and flagrant harassment of barbara hudson. You've also insinuated that other ArsTechnica admins are involved in pedophilia besides the one individual who actually was convicted. That last bit very well could actually constitute libel.
And now you want to pretend that you're a victim? Take your crybaby shit and shove it up your ass. If you want sympathy, go look between r and t in the fucking dictionary. You will get absolutely none from me. At least Terry Davis was a competent programmer and TempleOS was a rather intriguing project. You, however, contribute very little and your destructive behavior far outweighs any productive contributions you may have made. Fuck right off.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @07:22AM
FWIW, that is actually an common misconception. While not taking a position either way as to whether these are or not, it is important to point out that there are statements that don't require damages to be proved because they are inherently damaging [wikipedia.org].
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @04:00PM (1 child)
See my subject (hilarious) since all I asked was a question & you "PaNiCkEd" out of SHEER SELF-PROFESSED GUILT & you ought to read about INHERENTLY DAMAGING STATEMENTS per wikipedia that YOU MADE MY WAY others noted to you here https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=37033&page=1&cid=985366#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] , STUPID (because you ARE breaking laws such as the ,b>GOLDWATER RULE when you libeled me publicly MINUS psychiatric evidence thru this exchange).
Also, in addition to that, I KNOW YOU ARE BROKE AS A JOKE & BARELY ABLE TO MAKE RENT IN NYC (yes, I've seen you "crying" about the NYC economic shutdown on forums online) with YOU as a MERE PILL PUSHING PIMP (pharmakeia, which figures from "your kind").
And YES, I know YOUR KIND since I KNOW you HATE GOD per your reply to others here https://redeeminggod.com/sermons/luke/luke_7_36-50/ [redeeminggod.com] Marissa Van Eck - you sound like some DEVIL WORSHIPPING freak when you said "You are a whore, OP. And you are going to get thrown away by your pimp Yahweh." it's that OR that you are an ex-prostitute!)
* So Marissa Van Eck/alias cartoon character phantasyland FAKENAME freak 'Azuki von DUMBO - get a life, loser... you're too STUPID (& broke/worthless) to live, let alone even WORTH bringing a libel/defamation of character suit against.
(As to your LIST OF SLASHDOT do-nothing ALL TALK waste of life MORONS? I've CRUSHED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM with FACTS they started it, I finished EVERY SINGLE ONE OFF with their OWN STUPID ERRORS & MISTAKES, easily - undeniable, concrete & verifiable in every case, but that's what happens to MORONS & LOSER that "try me" - their OWN stupidity in trying to "take me on" caused them PUBLIC HUMILIATION which obviously, is NOTHING NEW to "their/your kind" that HIDE BEHIND FAKENAMES ONLINE since their REAL LIVES are like yours - that of a freak loser, no questions asked)
WoW - talk hypocrisy - Me, playing "Victim"? That's a laugh: You DUMB bitch - all you DID was provide a LIST OF MY VICTIMS I annihilated, rightfully so for attacking me & lying about me, with ease & like you?
The STUPID cocksuckers started up trouble w/ ME 1st & I publicly DESTROYED each of them using FACTS, not LIES like you have on me in your LIBEL of myself here in this exchange (as they "hide" behind FAKENAMES online, lol - many of which I got out of them OR found their REAL NAMES & where they live, easily).
Contributions? At least I MAKE GOOD ONES (& have been shown in publication in the field of computing MANY TIMES with even COMMERCIALLY SOLD CODE to MY NAME for DECADES now that WON a FINALIST POSITION @ Microsoft Tech-Ed 2000-2002 2 times in a ROW in its HARDEST CATEGORY of SQLServer Performance Enhancement - have you? No, of COURSE not - you're a FAKENAME since you are a FAKE wasted LIFE).
LASTLY As far as JEWS? The SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN per REVELATION by John (those who SAY they are JEWS but are not but instead HIDE BEHIND decent jews (very few imo))??
TELL US THEN WHY HAVE JEWS BEEN KICKED OUT OF 109 NATIONS THE LAST 2,000++ or so YEARS?
Hmmm? I don't see any other race/creed/people going thru THAT - but then, EVERYONE KNOWS THEY CAUSE IT FOR THEMSELVES (or were nations that existed LONG BEFORE WWII all "nazis"? LOL...)
APK
P.S.=> You can't say you "obeyed the law" when you CLEARLY STATED that I, APK, am "mental" etc. above(MINUS actual evidence from YOU by REAL psychiatric pros against me) & yes, that YOU CLEARLY STARTED UP TROUBLE w/ ME on those grounds, STUPID - & your "ReAcTioN"? Priceless, lol... apk
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 22 2020, @01:44AM
That wasn't me, dipfuck. I don't post AC (unlike you, you gormless coward) unless by accident, and then always reply to it with a logged in "hurr derp that was me."
I can't even bring myself to pity you, Mr. Kowalski. What kind of broken wreck of a human being acts like this? What happened to you to make you turn out this way? Some part of me doesn't want to know, but I've always had a problem with morbid curiosity...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 21 2020, @11:22PM (2 children)
See subject: I'm so sick & tired of SoylentNews BULLIES just like the /. & ArSeHoleTechnica bullies. You SHITWEASELS have nothing better to do than HARASS, STALK & IMPERSONATE little ol' me. I've done absolutely NOTHING wrong & just try to make everyone's lives better w/ my work that stops ads & malware.
* As soon as I post, I'm CENSORED to -1 w/ ABUSED spamdownmodpoints by FAKENAME bullies like The Mighty Buzzard, Runaway1956, Azuma Hazuki & Tom "Barbara" Hudson. I caught c6gunner mocking then IMPERSONATING me on /. when he forgot to log out. Zontar The Mindless mailed me a postcard w/ THREATS on it, then LIES & STALKS me. All because you JEALOUS JOWIE "ne'er-do-wells" KNOW I'm World-Class & you're shit. It's why you hide behind FAKE names & UNIDENTIFIABLE ANONYMOUS.
I caught Tom "Barbara" Hudson IMPERSONATING me too. The OLD NOT-MAN soyboy weezil is JUDEN TRASH and knows nothing about computers so IT LIES about me instead. This is one sick in the head IDLE HANDS ARE THE DEVIL'S WORKSHOP abomination, no questions asked. You wish you were me & that's why you IMPERSONATE & ATTACK me.
I'm even improving my already GREAT PHYSIQUE & SUPERIOR INTELLECT while you weezils & soyboys sit around all day on SoylentNews STALKING & HARASSING your BETTERS. I repeatedly dust the no-mind bullshit blatherings you BULLIES post to attack me. Like always I WIN & YOU LOSE. That's why you keep spamdownmod HIDING my posts & STALKING me w/ FAKENAME accounts. You CAN'T stop me any better than whipslash @ /. & he knows I could STOP HIS SERVER whenever I want. Martyb KNOWS he CAN'T DO BETTER than I w/ APK Hosts File Engine instead of some TOY website based on someone else's ABANDONED & BROKEN code from another site FULL of "ne'er-do-well" fakename forum focks.
Now I have the PILL-PUSHING SELF-PROCLAIMED "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of SOYLENTNEWS" LIBELING me & saying I'm MENTALLY ILL. ALL of you SHITWEASELS are mentally ill & can't stop BULLYING me because you WISH YOU WERE ME. PROVE you've done better than I. You can't & you know it so BULLYING & LIBELING is all YOUR KIND has left.
APK
P.S.=> This BULLYING of me is SO UNFAIR & I've done nothing to deserve it from you people. I'm tired of CASTING PEARLS before SWINE with my work that you CAN'T do better than. GROW UP... apk
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @12:06AM (1 child)
LmAo: Impersonating me doing what I'd never do (which is "play victim" when the truth is you made YOURSELVES my victims being STUPID ENOUGH to try "take me on" only to go "SPLAT" after I knocked you all flat via facts vs. your errors - classic case? Barbara Hudson https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] as just 1 single example thereof as proof, no questions asked & undeniable, concrete, & factually verifiable on all grounds of how I TOTALLY SPLATTERED that fucking tranny weirdo).
* I do like what you PROJECTED though about my type of person vs. "your kind" (SLIMY little SLINKING worms that play BITCH games like IMPERSONATING me).
APK
P.S.=> What a pack of SERIOUS BOZOS lurk around this shithole - glad I'm NOT one of you, that's certain... apk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 22 2020, @12:40AM
Except that you are playing victim. You claim that Azuma libeled you, loudly whining about it. Then you claim that you're being "impersonated" when you can immediately stop it by logging into your account [soylentnews.org], which you already have.
I have a theory. I think you're shitposting, then saying that someone impersonated you. That way, you can lie and pretend that everyone is out to get you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 14 2020, @08:11PM (3 children)
No, don't need to ask for more when you haven't given me any. Thanks.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @02:50PM (1 child)
All your minus mods aren't holding up as I see APK's post getting back to normal rating. Your ADHD is getting in your mentally incapacitated way as usual for you also. You should listen to that report and many others that are seeing large successes using ZPack, quinine and zinc dosing against COVID 19.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @03:11PM
Ok, troll.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 16 2020, @10:15PM
ABC NEWS even ADMITS efficacy of QUININE, zithromax & zinc I spoke of STUPID FUCK you are https://www.brighteon.com/cbdccc30-49b7-4358-9e50-06f669da576a [brighteon.com] vs. CORONA VIRUS
* Want MORE FUCKboy? See subject &:
https://www.brighteon.com/8520cb96-fb98-4e77-a5aa-0e9d0cbff09f [brighteon.com]
https://www.brighteon.com/db49aac9-5715-4b64-9472-be40a936cd9b [brighteon.com]
https://www.brighteon.com/ed66aa2c-1b20-42ab-8469-46b23b26cdd8 [brighteon.com]
https://www.brighteon.com/a1ef57f8-7624-431a-a792-c7ec4a1eb152 [brighteon.com]
(That's from REAL WORLD doctor's own results, fuckboy...)
SO MUCH SO, that the NIH has even started FORMAL TESTING (which should only bear out the REAL WORLD RESULTS doctors see anyhow above)
https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/04/10/2013215/nih-begins-clinical-trial-to-test-hydroxychloroquine-to-treat-covid-19 [slashdot.org]
YOU IGNORANT LITTLE FUCKWEASEL - the wise man listens & FOOLS LIKE YOU CHATTER instead!
APK
P.S.=> You UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous DILDOS doubt me? Fine - Doubt real doctors results above STUPID fuck you are - you are a FUCKING LOSER motherfucker (now SHOW US ALL RESULTS THAT ZINC + QUININE + Zithomycin DOES NOT WORK @ ALL you WEASEL FUCK (good luck))... apk
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:05AM (3 children)
Citation? I keep hearing that it's awfully selective for respiratory tissue.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @01:38PM (1 child)
There are ACE2 receptors in the heart. One of the first Chinese case studies (January) was a patient with heart tissue present in blood and no other typical signs of cardiac arrest. Rather than cite that, here's a more thorough examination of risks. [livescience.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 14 2020, @12:07PM
Thanks, and thanks to HiThere also. Appreciate it.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday April 13 2020, @02:45PM
It generally attacks the lungs first. If there's a severe case, though, multi-organ damage is not rare. I can't point you to any specific source, because it was usually just an "in passing" comment in the articles I read, which were really about something else.
A search returned this link: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30558-4/fulltext [thelancet.com]
but I haven't read it.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @01:13PM (1 child)
It's to treat secondary, bacterial infection. I'm sure it's just your phrasing and you know CAP is not synonymous with bacterial pneumonia. [cebm.net]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 13 2020, @02:33PM
Ah, yes. I'm stuck doing outpatient at the moment (though considering what hospitals are like now this may be a blessing...) and was indeed thinking of bacterial pneumonia in general. Actually, now that you mention it, I've only seen one HCQ prescription for a coronavirus case here. Seems the stuff is mostly being sent to hospitals?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 5, Touché) by aristarchus on Monday April 13 2020, @01:49AM
ἐπὶ δηλήσει δὲ καὶ ἀδικίῃ εἴρξειν
So the regime has a higher death rathe than Covid-19 does? A great, in fact, possibly the greatest medical genius ever, people are saying, said we cannot let the cure be worse than the disease. Discuss.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @02:52AM (8 children)
I find it an interesting coincdience that Boris went from okay to nearly dying in the ICU to looking better than ever in a period of like 3 days. Immediately following his miraculous and ultra-rapid recovery, the NHS has begun more widespread trials of the droxy at St. Bartholomew’s Hospital in London and the Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 13 2020, @03:03AM (1 child)
Twice daily monitoring for signs of infection plus unlimited access to Tamiflu and similar well known, but limited supply therapies can indeed do wonders. I suspect Trump underwent a similar therapy early on when he was rumored to have COVID and laid lower than usual out of the spotlight for a few days.
The whole problem with our healthcare systems isn't that we don't know what to do, it's that we lack the capacity to do it for everyone all at the same time.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @04:55AM
John Hopkins maintains a running page of treatments [hopkinsguides.com] tried on COVID here. Tamiflu is useless.
On that note, this [nih.gov] paper is worth giving a read. Tamiflu is likely just another hyper-commercialized non-drug. It performed no better than placebo in independent studies and comes with a mountain of unreported, and often quite extreme, side effects. It made Roche $18 billion though. And I'm sure they made sure to thank their buddies at the FDA.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Monday April 13 2020, @03:12AM (2 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @04:00AM
I am referring to his time in hospital and ICU in particular. You don't come out of the ICU looking suddenly like a new man, let alone after such a brief time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @09:57PM
I "apologized" to you TRANNY twisto https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?cid=937346&sid=35327 [soylentnews.org] ? FUCK NO, not ever: That's NOT me but I DESTROYED YOU PUBLICLY on every level including proving you barb stalk me on THIS SITE https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=33430&page=1&cid=889582#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] with more proof QUOTED FROM YOU DIRECTLY barbara (tom) hudson proving are a technical incompetent brain-damaged transsexual fool BULLSHIT ARTIST FUCKUP worthless creep that also failed on tech vs. me.
My post LITERALLY also shows links to stopping hundreds of threats of MANY KINDS via hosts (since 99% of malicious threats online use hostnames - block them as I do in hosts (less overhead vs. ANYTHING else by FAR & pure kernelmode TCP/IP stack efficient no less)? Can't TOUCH you nor you it. That's ONLY a 1 year only as a sample and I'd done TONS MORE many hundreds more at slashdot before that and yes 99% use hostnames so hosts work against them harming you).
So much for your usual lies barb and useless online troll chatterbox you has never done better work and I fairly challenged you to show you did. You have not.
NOW: You RESORTING TO IMPERSONATING ME on your end only PROVES I really got to you barb/tom hudson tranny.
So much so you are reduced to showing us your true scum bag self in fact. Thought YOU were going to SUE me? LMAO for what? FACTS ABOUT YOU??? LOL!
* YOU WILL ALWAYS FAIL vs. me just as you FAILED @ being a MAN & since you couldn't GET ANY PUSSY you (lmao) DECIDED in your DRUG ADDLED BRAIN to SLICE OFF YOUR COCK & build your OWN pussy (only way you'd "get some", ever).... OMG!
Only thing that "looks like SHIT" is you you FUCKED UP abomination of desolation freak.
APK
P.S.=> Hey FREAK? I'm going to PUBLICLY EMBARRASS YOUR ASS SO BAD on this site you will have to SLINK AROUND IN SHAME publicly but then, "your kind" (massive MASSIVE total losers in life) are USED to that, aren't you? You don't LIKE IT but I LOVE doing it, exposing you as the TRASH you are fucker... apk
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 13 2020, @02:34PM (1 child)
Fuck. I was wondering what was going to happen to him. It would have been poetically-just in the extreme if his fat NHS-wrecking Tory ass had died of this..
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:35PM
Are you such a loser than you have nothing better to do with your life than wish death on others? Are you that sick of an individual that you wish deadly viruses on people because you disagree with their politics? The answer is yes to both questions. Even if you truly despise someone, you ought to be intelligent enough to not want that person to take up an ICU bed or a ventilator because they contracted the virus. But you really are quite stupid.
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/Azuma_\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)_Hazuki|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @03:40PM
He didn't go to "nearly dying". He was put into the ICU "in case he needed more services". Ie, your leaders get better access to medical care.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Monday April 13 2020, @02:57AM
So... we have a late teens son with rather severe autism, very limited communication with the expected resulting anxiety and some pretty serious impulse control issues - above and beyond your normal teenager. He doesn't swear, but the behavior outbursts resemble Tourette's - sudden acting out of things he knows are wrong. A long explanation of why our doctor recommended a drug that's approved for Pseudobulbar affect - another uncontrolled behavior outburst condition, and our son has been on this drug for ~6 months now, with a very marked improvement in his (and our, and his school's) situation. Rambling around to the quinine connection... the drug is a combination of dextromethorphan (yes, the old cough suppressant) and quinidine, yet another member of that tonic water family associated with QT prolongation syndrome. Apparently, the dextromethorphan not only suppresses cough reflexes, but also these behavioral impulses as well - but not effectively until it's mixed with quinidine which prolongs its circulation in the blood and enables it to better cross the brain-blood barrier. Whatever, it works for him, and so far the side effects are minimal.
Which is a long winded explanation of: even if you call something a monotherapy, you are putting it in a person - which is a complex system of interacting everything, expect different results in different people both due to their inherent genetics, their current microbiome profile, diet, levels of activity, other health conditions, etc.
Quinidine and friends suppress certain aspects of liver function (like grapefruit also does), in many cases radically altering the serum levels and therefore effects of other drugs and miscellaneous substances in the body.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday April 13 2020, @04:03AM (21 children)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine [wikipedia.org]
What the fuck is this "research" about?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by pipedwho on Monday April 13 2020, @04:24AM (20 children)
Some speculation early on identified hydroxychloroquine as a treatment of COVID. The evidence is tenuous and no controlled studies have been run. But, for some reason it has avalanched as the go-to treatment, even if it actually does nothing. And not only may it have no benefit, it may have other serious side effects.
The whole hydroxychloroquine thing is a classic example of how 'non-scientific' the medical establishment can be.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @04:43AM (1 child)
How non-scientific the medical establishment is? No one would be talking about hydroxychloroquine, the same way they aren't talking about the other treatments under investigation, if Trump hadn't mentioned it repeatedly on TV.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:13AM
Right. And any establishment that kowtows to Trump's gut feelings is un-scientific, in doing so.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday April 13 2020, @04:53AM (3 children)
Snake Oil by any other name is still Snake Oil.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @12:23PM (2 children)
Perhaps the authorities should do a clinical trial of snake oil.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday April 13 2020, @02:54PM (1 child)
They actually have. This is a traditional Chinese medicine.
The result is that there is a snake native to China whose oil does have inflammation suppressing properties. It's nothing spectacular. Aspirin is better at the job. And it's not just any old snake. (Can't remember my source for that, and it was years ago, possibly a decade or more.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:38PM
White snake, or green snake demon? My favorite Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81108281 [netflix.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @05:37AM (6 children)
Something many don't realize is how 'unscientific' medicine, in general, is. Countless number of drugs were developed for one purpose, found to be useless, but in the process seemed to show some other effect - and so they went that route with it. Viagra is probably the most famous example - it was being trialed as a drug for heart problems. It had negligible efficacy, but did a great job of getting everybody's dick hard. Prozac came from an allergy medicine that somehow seemed to also have an antidepressant effect, so forth and so on.
The only thing that's changed with the droxy is this whole shit show of drug development is being made public due to our little pestilence.
In general people would like to imagine we have a sophisticated system of medicine where we nail down what exactly some disease is doing and then produce a drug to micro-target those factors. In reality, it's more like we try a bunch of crap, see what works, and then retrofit explanations of the drug's method of operation. Again, psychotropics are an awesome example. What causes depression? It's one of those cases where those with no knowledge and those with a lot of knowledge would answer the same way - we've no clue. It's only those in the middle that might suggest a serotonin imbalance. That hypothesis again came from retrofitting the observation that SSRI's seemed to have an anti-depressant effect. Of course they also cause a gazillion other physiological changes as well, so nobody really knows what the exact mechanism in play is.
Something to always consider before deciding to indulge in medication.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @05:54AM
Biologics will fix everything.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:16AM (1 child)
What? Discovering something accidentally isn't unscientific. It's how hunches and accidental findings are investigated which can be un/scientific.
Something you don't seem to realize is what 'scientific' is.
(Score: 2) by nishi.b on Monday April 13 2020, @12:18PM
I understood the grandparent's statement as something I noticed myself: it's only very recently that we are able to understand a disease mechanism and try to design a treatment for it from this knowledge : which protein allows binding into cells, which genetic sequence is the problem and so on. And yes, most medicine still consists in validating with the scientific method treatments that originated much more randomly than that.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by HiThere on Monday April 13 2020, @03:02PM (2 children)
That comment about Viagra is proof that you don't understand experimental science (which all other science is based on). You use theories to try something, but if it doesn't do what you expect, you notice what it does do. Then you adjust your theories to match the experimental results.
Well, that's how it's supposed to happen. And I left out details, like replication, testing edge cases, validation, etc. And often different steps are done by different people, or even different teams.
So. They predicted Viagra would be a heart drug, and found they were wrong, but noticed this other useful characteristic. The information presented doesn't allow me to determine what theory they used to predict it, or whether the theory was adjusted. But the steps presented are part of the experimental scientific method. So is Goodyear's discover of rubber vulcanization.
The saying is "fortune favors the prepared mind". That's an oversimplification. But adventitious adoption of unexpected fortune is definitely a part of the scientific method.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Monday April 13 2020, @03:11PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @05:19PM
The problem is that there is no adjustment because we still have no clue why or what things are doing - only that they seem to do at least one thing, and an unknown number of other things. The trials tell you that, ideally, you won't immediately die or suffer other substantial injury from taking the drug. Yet even that's kind of meh as the research itself tends to be of an abysmal quality. For instance this [nature.com] replication study is now rather famous. A team of researchers attempted to replicate 53 keystone preclinical studies in cancer. They were only able to successfully replicate 6 of them, 11%. That's even worse than the replication rate in social psychology studies (which are hovering in the low twenties). There's a major conflict of interest. While regulatory and other bodies do work to provide some degree of oversight, ultimately all testing and verification is carried out by the exact same companies that stand to make billions of dollars by having their drugs proven safe and effective, even if they're not. Lo and behold they tend to disproportionately find that their drugs are indeed safe and effective. The FDA does not independently validate or study anything - they simply affirm whether or not they believe the statements made by the company 'x treats y' are justified given the data the company shows to the FDA.
I am not criticizing the methodology, aside from playing fast and loose with clinical studies, because there probably is not that much more we can do given our extremely limited understanding of human physiology. The only thing I emphasize here is how wrong most people's interpretation of medical 'science' is, and see at as something far more idealized than it is. It still remains more in the domain of the social and other pseudosciences than actual sciences, simply because we don't even have much of a foundation upon which to build. It's simply throwing darts, mostly blind, and seeing what sticks. And indeed I strongly suspect that in the future substantial chunks of our modern pharmacology, undoubtedly including the vast majority of psychotropics, will be looked back upon similarly to how we now view lobotomies, even though lobotomies rose to prominence and normalization through the exact same methodologies we use today.
I suspect if more people understood exactly how those pills they're popping came to be, they might give it a moment's consideration as opposed to the current situation where people often practically demand a variety of different pills after visiting the doctor. This is made much worse in the US since we are one of the only two countries in the world that still allows direct to consumer pharmaceutical advertising which is just grossly unethical.
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday April 13 2020, @01:12PM (6 children)
It is already PROVEN DECADES AGO that it is SAFE medicine. Specifically, old people take it all the time and in most places all over the world it is available OVER THE COUNTER.
The only danger here is that Trump fucks some democrats over it. Democrats use this as a political tool and kill people in the process, as 80% people on ventilators die in NYC.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday April 13 2020, @03:09PM
Yahhh....it's been proven so safe that you can't buy quinine water over the counter for gin and tonic in the US.
Sorry, just because most people can take small amounts of something without problems doesn't mean that it's safe at any dosage. And the recommended dose of quinine derived drug (several different ones are being tested IIUC) is close to the level where it causes heart problems in lots of people. Short term use *MAY* be ok for *MOST* people at those levels. But safe? Well........no. Or at least it depends on what you're comparing it against. (Safe compared to malaria? Possibly. Of course, it doesn't work that well against malaria any more.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday April 13 2020, @03:53PM (4 children)
It was proven decades ago to have very dangerous side effects. And this new data confirms them.
FTA: Worryingly, significant risks are identified for combination users of HCQ+AZM even in the short-term as proposed for COVID19 management, with a 15-20% increased risk of angina/chest pain and heart failure, and a two-fold risk of cardiovascular mortality in the first month of treatment.
Democrats are asking that people listen to scientists. Once they determine it's safe and effective we'll be happy.
Meanwhile, it's jumping the gun and listening to the President instead of the experts that's getting people killed:
Husband and wife poison themselves trying to self-medicate with chloroquine [livescience.com]
Man Dies After Taking Chloroquine for Coronavirus [webmd.com]
Remember a time when the President DIDN'T spread dangerous misinformation?
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday April 13 2020, @04:49PM (3 children)
This is democrat political horse shit, sorry. The drug is used to treat arthritis which is lifetime condition for seniors and has mortality way below covid for them.
Regardless, my doctor whom I trust, tried and failed to get it for herself. She also told me that the whole supply of the drug is taken by hospitals. Yes, the drug may not help, but given the death rate there is nothing wrong with using it. Democrats, just fuck off - the blood will be on your hands.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Monday April 13 2020, @05:06PM (2 children)
You mean the DIRECT QUOTE I took from the article we're discussing?
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday April 13 2020, @05:28PM (1 child)
Yes, I am pissed off about the article. Sorry, did not mean any personal offense.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:43PM
So, conservative shit-fit? There's a treatment for that!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:24AM
My lord! With the licensing changes and now we know it's causing COVID19. Can't we just fork QT already and be done with it?
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Open-Source-Statement [phoronix.com]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @12:35PM (3 children)
How is Trump tied to this drug financially. As other pointed out the guy who can barely pronounce words rolls the name of the drug off with no errors. He would not do that unless he gets benefit out of it. What a sad world we live in. Profits over people.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Monday April 13 2020, @03:06PM (1 child)
He, and more importantly his cronies, owns stock in these companies.
Trump's financial interest in producer of hydroxychloroquine [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @05:35PM
The droxy is a 50 year old drug. This means it's not patented and literally any company can produce it and most major pharmaceutical companies do. It's on the WHO list of essential medicines considered the safest and most effective medicines that all countries should ensure they have ready supplies of. For instance in the US in 2017 it was prescribed more than 5 million times.
Most of the world with wealth some number like let's say $500k likely has a "financial interest" in the droxy. You'd have to basically have all pharmaceuticals excluded from every single investment you have, and that's absurd. They're reliable high profit, high growth, industries that can help stabilize and diversify a portfolio.
It's things like this that pushed me away from the left. People no longer even care about whether what they're saying is on the up and up, or not. Something that used to be (or at least I 'think' it used to be) primarily the domain of the right.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday April 13 2020, @03:20PM
IIUC, he only has a small connection, and it's slightly indirect. It's some friends of his that really benefit.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 13 2020, @07:06PM
it would suck if the "newness" of this corona virus would be that immunity doesn't last very long.
i have heard / read that the viruses of the corona family (there are a few) have a rather short half-life for the human immune system (immunity doesn't last long).
so the active(?) immunization thru vaczin will be short lived and the antibody(?) vaczin will maybe need to be reapplied every 6 months?
maybe we will be carrying testing kits in our handbags / pockets like we carry condoms in the future?
the "fast" transport routes are strongly regulated (airplane, train, public transport) and easy to shut down, but other transport routes, like camel caravan or such, are not. their slowness combined with the (maybe) short immunity period could lead to oscilating reinfection waves?