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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday April 29 2020, @03:58PM   Printer-friendly

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

Nonverbal learning disability (NVLD), a poorly understood and often-overlooked disorder that causes problems with visual-spatial processing, may affect nearly 3 million children in the United States, making it one of the most common learning disorders, according to a new study by led by Columbia University Irving Medical Center.

The study, the first to estimate the prevalence of NVLD in the general population, was published online today in JAMA Network Open.

"NVLD is a huge and hidden public health burden," said Jeffrey Lieberman, Chair of Psychiatry at the Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons and Director of the New York State Psychiatric Institute. "This important work might never have come to light if not for the support of dedicated advocate and their philanthropic support. We hope that these findings raise awareness of the disorder and lead to an understanding of its neurobiology and better treatments."

The name of this neurodevelopmental disorder may be part of the problem: children with NVLD are not nonverbal, as the name suggests, and have no difficulty reading. Instead, children with NVLD have difficulty processing visual-spatial sensory information, which can cause problems with math, executive function, and fine motor and social skills. "Children with this disorder might shy away from doing jigsaw puzzles or playing with Legos," says lead author Amy E. Margolis, PhD, assistant professor of medical psychology at Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. "They may have trouble tying their shoes, using scissors, or learning routes or schedules."

NVLD was first described in 1967, but compared with other learning disorders it has received little attention. There's little consensus among physicians on how to diagnose the disorder, and it is not included in the current edition of the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The cause of NVLD is not known and there are no treatments.

Few parents have heard of NVLD. "Most parents recognize that a child who isn't talking by age two should be evaluated for a learning disorder. But no one thinks twice about kids who have problems with visual-spatial tasks," says Margolis.

[...] Margolis advises parents to seek evaluation for children with symptoms of NVLD. "Diagnosis can be accomplished using basic assessment tools," says Margolis. "It doesn't have to involve complex and costly neuropsychological testing. We envision that all clinicians who use DSM5 will be able to use our new criteria to determine who may meet criteria. They can then send patients for basic psychological testing that is always available through schools to identify/quantify a problem with visual-spatial processing."

-- submitted from IRC

Journal Reference:
Amy E. Margolis, Jessica Broitman, John M. Davis, Lindsay Alexander, Ava Hamilton, Zhijie Liao, Sarah Banker, Lauren Thomas, Bruce Ramphal, Giovanni A. Salum, Kathleen Merikangas, Jeff Goldsmith, Tomas Paus, Katherine Keyes, Michael P. Milham. Estimated Prevalence of Nonverbal Learning Disability Among North American Children and Adolescents. JAMA Network Open, 2020; 3 (4): e202551 DOI: 10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2020.2551


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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday April 29 2020, @04:27PM (18 children)

    by VLM (445) on Wednesday April 29 2020, @04:27PM (#988230)

    My guess is this will end up being a spectrum disease.

    This specific article focuses on Kindergarten skills. I googled a bit and it seems to be a general processing problem not a 5 year old problem.

    I remember from CS classes a long time ago that the kids who flunked out first semester just couldn't do patterns. I don't mean trendy or complicated "learn 99 design patterns in 24 hours heads up" but I mean the really simple patterns like nested loops or "do-while" vs "for" loops and stuff like that. Some folks just can't "do" nested loops, which was a weird realization to me because I can.

    With respect to visual spatial processing I saw something similar in CAD drafting classes, there's kids who take to projections and 3-d like fish to water, and there's kids who just can't draft a sketch of a cube to save their lives.

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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Booga1 on Wednesday April 29 2020, @05:21PM (9 children)

    by Booga1 (6333) on Wednesday April 29 2020, @05:21PM (#988249)

    ... there's kids who take to projections and 3-d like fish to water, and there's kids who just can't draft a sketch of a cube to save their lives.

    Indeed. I have a friend who might have something like this. He's decent at following logic, math, maps, and drives a commercial truck for a living. Backing that big thing into loading docks isn't tough at all for him. He handles with anything that has a concrete set of instructions or rules just fine.
    However, anything that's abstract and requires judgement of spatial problem solving that he hasn't encountered before gives him serious trouble. For example, I saw him doing laundry and the washer got off balance in the spin cycle. He would just stop the machine and re-run the rinse and spin cycle hoping it would balance out. I asked why he didn't just balance it himself, and said he couldn't figure it out. That kind of basic lack of trouble shooting ability just floored me.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29 2020, @08:33PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29 2020, @08:33PM (#988322)

      Not nice to talk about Runaway like that.

      • (Score: 2) by Kell on Thursday April 30 2020, @02:40AM

        by Kell (292) on Thursday April 30 2020, @02:40AM (#988391)

        Did you mean to say that Runaway was unbalanced?

        --
        Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday April 29 2020, @09:51PM

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday April 29 2020, @09:51PM (#988337)

      Your friend sounds like one of the junior zombies who is "on the spectrum".

      He's great at following instructions, and does simple tasks no problem, but if it requires any out-of-the-box type thinking he gets stuck. It can wind up being quite stressful for him because he worries about making the wrong choice so much that sometimes he just stops and makes no choice at all.

      Fortunately his boss loves him because she knows she can give him a task and leave him to it, as long as she is clear about what she wants.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29 2020, @10:05PM (5 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29 2020, @10:05PM (#988341)

      I don't want to say anything bad about my late father, so posting AC, but this reminds me of something that happened when I was a teenager. We had a clothes line in the unfinished part of the basement so we could hang the big comforter up to dry.

      When one side of the comforter is dry, you need to turn it so that the other side dries in a decent amount of time. So my Dad is like, "can you help me?", and I had seen my folks do this before--take the comforter off the line, turn it over, and put it back on the line. You needed two people to do that. I hadn't really thought about it much, but then it occurred to me that I could keep it on the line, and just sort of pull one end back along the line, flipping it over without ever taking it off the line. I sort of butted in as he was about to take it off the line, and turned it over way faster and with no risk of it falling on the floor.

      He was like, "OK, smarty pants", but at the same time I think he was proud of me for being like that.

      I had always assumed that the WW2/military generation had "teamwork" drilled into their heads. That, I reasoned, was why turning over the comforter had to be a two-man operation for him.

      In retrospect, maybe my Dad had this issue, or maybe it was just a random thing. I went on to get a EE degree and do computer stuff. My Dad did clerical work, and then later managed others who did clerical work which seems like it doesn't involve too much spatial reasoning.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Thursday April 30 2020, @01:00AM (3 children)

        by Gaaark (41) on Thursday April 30 2020, @01:00AM (#988376) Journal

        I seem to be good at thinking outside the box or seeing things that are obvious to me but not others:

        When i was a kid taking driving lessons in school, we had to watch a video: the guy in the video does all this stuff and then at the end he looks in the rear view mirror and says something like "Uh oh, looks like the guy behind me won't be able to stop in time" and he leans forward and grabs the steering wheel.

        My mind went to physics: i asked the teacher if the guy in the video shouldn't, instead, be pushing himself back into the seat instead. The teacher thought about it for a second and then said "I've been teaching this for 17 years and you're the first person to point that out."

        What was obvious to me didn't seem to register with others (or register as a "I'll give a feck and point this out"?)

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @01:04AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @01:04AM (#988378)

          Great story, Grandpa. My Tesla drives itself so I don't have to worry about accidents.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @04:54PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @04:54PM (#988639)

            Just you wait until Runaway's truck loses the brakes and smashes into your rear end, at a light.
            Then you will know why he chose that handle...and why your Tesla is like paper to a big rig.

        • (Score: 2) by Kell on Thursday April 30 2020, @02:48AM

          by Kell (292) on Thursday April 30 2020, @02:48AM (#988396)

          I had written out a length reply about why the driver was making the correct action, and then reread your comment and noted that the scenario had the driver being rear-ended; as soon as I realised that, your point made sense to me. Appropriately, this is exactly the sort of visual/spatial reasoning that's being discussed: if I couldn't picture it in my mind's eye, I would not be able to ascertain that your solution was correct. This makes me wonder if the nonverbal learning difficulty is related to aphantasia.

          --
          Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @05:12PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @05:12PM (#988648)

        > ...keep it on the line, and just sort of pull one end back along the line, flipping it over without ever taking it off the line

        Great minds think alike -- did the same thing for my Mom. We had a long outdoor clothesline and with sheets & towels it was quick to walk along the line, flipping/inverting each one in turn. Had to get them dry quickly, this area often has pop-up rain showers.

        Can't dry clothes in our basement -- mold problems, even with dehumidfiers.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by martyb on Wednesday April 29 2020, @05:31PM (6 children)

    by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 29 2020, @05:31PM (#988255) Journal

    My guess is this will end up being a spectrum disease.

    I think you nailed it. I've seen the same things over the years. There are some folk who just can't "see it".

    As for "spectrum", there are two sides to that. Well, actually a whole bell curve (or some other statistical distribution)!

    Growing up, my Dad would frequently sketch something he was looking to make. At first, it was just so many lines on a page. Then we'd head off to his workshop and he'd explain what he was doing. Over time, I saw countless examples of seeing his drawings converted into reality... it eventually "clicked" for me. Let's just say that the standardized tests of "which one of these, when folded up, would match this cube?" was a trivial challenge for me. In fact, my visualization skills were an obstacle when I was first studying Geometry. "Given a triangle, where line segments AB and AC are of the same length, show that angle ABC is equiangular to angle ACB." I'd pause for a moment, draw the triangle in my mind, picture what would happen if I changed the length of either AB or AC (or both) or changed the angle BAC. Yep, that's right! Cool!" For some reason the teacher wanted me to prove it, and I'm just thinking "It has to be. What is there to prove?" Eventually, after some frustration and lots of examples, it "clicked" for me, and then I found another branch of mathematics to enjoy.

    So, I suspect that contributes to my having comparative difficulty in fully understanding spoken conversation. First, I have a good vocabulary, so when someone utters a word, I'm faced with (1) was that "to", "too", ""two", "tu", or "tew"? (2) Then after I sorted that out from context, I've still got the problem of wondering how precisely does the word they used match the concept they were trying to voice. Some people are not as precise as others in their word selection. Oftentimes, it's just uttering just the fist word that comes to mind that kinda matches the thought in their mind. (3) Ladle on logical fallacies, irony, double (or triple!) entendre, puns, as well as different parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, adverb, and things like an adjective phrase, etc., etc.). (4) For more fun, regional pronunciations add their own flair! The suggestion to "Marry merry Mary" mostly sounds like the same word said three times in a row. I actually have heard a proper Bostonian say"Pahk yah kahr in hahvahd yahd."

    Similarly, I prefer to talk with someone in person than on the phone. For me, talking on the phone is is like watching a TV with no picture — so much of the story is missing! With practice, I've gotten better, but is not anywhere at the level of alacrity with which I can read and process visual information.

    Whew! Usually (though far from always) written words benefit from more careful crafting (absent Tweets, IRC, IM, etc.).

    So, back to story at hand. Someone with a Non-Verbal Learning Disability may have none of the difficulty I just stated for dealing with verbal input. I would not be at surprised that they have better verbal skills than I!

    Lastly, it helps me to remember when I am trying to communicate with someone else, that they have different processing and reasoning skills and deficiencies. If I want to make a point, it is incumbent on me to NOT assume that what I heard/said/read/wrote was entirely accurate. It behooves me to rephrase my understanding back and confirm that what I received is what was intended (or that I said/wrote was understood as intended).

    I guess that helps explain how I came to volunteer to be an Editor on SoylentNews! =)

    --
    Wit is intellect, dancing.
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 29 2020, @05:41PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday April 29 2020, @05:41PM (#988262)

      watching a TV with no picture

      I found that watching TV with picture and sound was a great way to pick up a fair bit of foreign language - as long as the shows are "visual action" oriented, like a guy forgetting his keys, trying to open a door, slapping his forehead and saying "habe Ich mein schlussel ferguessen" (or however it's actually spelled) - even though I had a vague recollection of schlussel and ferguessen from other context, seeing it like that clicked it into useful vocabulary immediately, and apparently permanently (some 30 years ago now.)

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29 2020, @08:36PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29 2020, @08:36PM (#988323)

      That explains a lot.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Gaaark on Thursday April 30 2020, @01:05AM (1 child)

      by Gaaark (41) on Thursday April 30 2020, @01:05AM (#988379) Journal

      At first, it was just so many lines on a page.

      This reminded me of watching Bob Ross: you go from "Well, that's nothing special: that mountain looks pretty awful and what's up with that shitty tree" to "Holy fecking feck! That's fecking beautiful!"

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @03:58PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @03:58PM (#988613)

        They all start with just a gradient from one point to everywhere else (little Xs with the brush), and it looks like nothing...

        I found it funny my sister-in-law who does graphic design for a living hadn't ever seen him before. About 20 minutes in, she exclaimed, "He's STILL using a 2 inch brush?!?! HOW!?!?!"

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @03:28AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30 2020, @03:28AM (#988411)

      I'd arguably be diagnosable, I have absolutely no ability to visualize anything and any tasks that require visualization are impossible for me without converting to something else, either kinesthetic or just purely abstract. On top of that it can be extremely difficult to plan as I never know what something is going to look like beyond a spoken description.

      A lot of visual and spacial concepts are purely abstract and aren't really ever decoded.

      As I've grown older, I've better leaned how to work with it, but having help would have been great.

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday April 30 2020, @03:54PM

        by VLM (445) on Thursday April 30 2020, @03:54PM (#988610)

        On top of that it can be extremely difficult to plan as I never know what something is going to look like beyond a spoken description.

        Speaking of which, online shopping and "design by datasheet" is built for the engineering visualization mindset, but people who can't imagine spatial stuff can't really shop online. I can buy IKEA type stuff online and it fits; my wife simply cannot and has to go to the showroom, and sometimes gets it wrong.

        I figured out yesterday how to wedge a microwave preamp between an antenna and existing receiver input all in my head; it depends on SMA minimum bend radii and connector crimp style and order of assembly and routing of cable and stuff like that; then I did it in CAD to PROVE it'll work. People who can't visualize think the CAD magically figured it out, but really its more to prove what the visualizer already knows or prevent silly mistakes, and document for others to read. I mean verbally you can just say "wiggle the thing around in an upward direction instead of sideways and use a specific length crimped SMA connector not any old random connector, and then the minimum cable bend radius will be just fine" but sometimes its easier to just look at a CAD rendering someone else made. I've never actually figured something out with CAD. Its for proving and documenting not brainstorming.

        I mean, heck, I can even buy clothing online, which apparently a lot of people can't do.

  • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 29 2020, @05:34PM

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday April 29 2020, @05:34PM (#988257)

    Some folks just can't "do" nested loops

    More generally, there are various skills that some folks just can't "do" well, if at all, no matter how much they "study, focus, concentrate, apply themselves, re-visit the pre-requisites, etc."

    I had an employee who simply could not use a mouse - shocked me because he had been running our automated test stations for years, pretty complicated computer thingies, but they were text/keyboard driven - that hand-eye thing with the mouse was outside his available skill set, and it meant that he couldn't run the newer graphic based PCB milling machine we had installed, not even to just trigger it to grind the next board because that was a mouse click on screen button action.

    As for the nested loop thing - I had a PhD working on a 3D histogram problem for several months. He sped up the computation by parallelizing, optimized various bits here and there, but missed an un-necessary extra loop layer: was iterating over the whole volume for each bin, rather than incrementing the respective bins directly during a single pass, caused a lot of cache miss and a ~100x slowdown. When the rest of us found it in a code review, he implemented the suggested change, observed the 100% equivalence of the results, the 100x speedup of execution, but never really understood it - said as much in his code comments as well as in person.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]