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posted by martyb on Tuesday June 02 2020, @07:30PM   Printer-friendly

African-American George Floyd's death has led to marches, demonstrations, acts of violence, and looting across the USA and in other parts of the world. Emotions are running high. We will not attempt to accuse or defend anyone here. Just attempt to lay out the information we have and offer it up for the community to discuss. Many comments about this incident have been posted to unrelated stories on this site. This is, therefore, an attempt to provide one place on SoylentNews where people are encouraged to discuss it. So as to not derail other stories on the site, I kindly ask you focus those comments here.

Wikipedia has a page about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd (permanent link to the page as it appeared at the time of writing):

On May 25, 2020, George Floyd, an African-American man, was killed in the Powderhorn community of Minneapolis, Minnesota. While Floyd was handcuffed and lying face down on a city street during an arrest, Derek Chauvin, a white American Minneapolis police officer, kept his knee on the right side of Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; according to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, 2 minutes and 53 seconds of that time occurred after Floyd became unresponsive.[3][4][5][6][7] Officers Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng, and Thomas K. Lane participated in Floyd's arrest, with Kueng holding Floyd's back, Lane holding his legs, and Thao looking on and preventing intervention by an onlooker as he stood nearby.[8]:6:24[9][10]

The arrest was made after Floyd was accused of using a counterfeit $20 bill at a market.[11] Police said Floyd physically resisted arrest.[12][13] Some media organizations commented that a security camera from a nearby business did not show Floyd resisting.[14][15] The criminal complaint filed later said that based on body camera footage, Floyd repeatedly said he couldn't breathe while standing outside the police car, resisted getting in the car and intentionally fell down.[16][17][18][19] Several bystanders recorded the event on their smartphones, with one video showing Floyd repeating "Please", "I can't breathe", "Mama", and "Don't kill me" being widely circulated on social media platforms and broadcast by the media.[20] While knee-to-neck restraints are allowed in Minnesota under certain circumstances, Chauvin's usage of the technique has been widely criticized by law enforcement experts as excessive.[21][22][23] All four officers were fired the day after the incident.[24]

[...] Charges: Third-degree murder (Chauvin) Second-degree manslaughter (Chauvin)

This has been extensively covered by the media. Some outlets attempt to put their own interpretations on their coverage with their selection of video footage and with their commentary. It is difficult to find a simple video of the incident. Here is one that has coverage from the time of initial encounter of the police the officers with George Floyd up through his being taken away by ambulance. The video is a composite of shots from a restaurant's surveillance camera (Dragon Wok), Officer body cam, and bystander cell phones. YouTube footage: Full George Floyd Available Footage (21:12). If anyone has more complete footage of the arrest, please mention it clearly (with a link) in the comments.

Lastly, this is a hard time for everybody. Pandemic. Lock-down. Unemployment. Fears. Please be mindful of others' circumstances when commenting. We are a community sprung from a time of challenge. Let us continue to be here for one-another during this difficult time. SoylentNews is People.


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  • (Score: 2) by martyb on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:30PM (23 children)

    by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:30PM (#1002330) Journal

    I haven't followed too closely, was it a little cop with his knee on the neck?

    From the reports I've seen, there was one officer restraining his legs, another restraining his torso/back, all while this officer had his neck on George's neck.

    The knee-on-neck is clearly visible in the linked video. (The two other officers being hidden behind the police vehicle.)

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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:44PM (20 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:44PM (#1002338)

    For reference, my 125lb 17 year old son (with severe Autism) cut his foot on some glass and we went to the ER. He was cooperative right up to the point where the needle came out for the stitches - wasn't having any of that - but the doc on duty told us he needed stitches an alternative like cyanoacrylate wouldn't hold up on the bottom of the foot and we'd have continued bleeding. So... after 6 hours, various sedatives, and many attempts they eventually dosed him with ketamine, twice, and had no fewer than 8 people holding him down to get the stitches in his foot. Even with that, the stitches were a bit uneven, but they were effective, and months later there's not even a scar.

    If all you want to do is subdue someone with unrestrained force, one little cop with a billy club can knock out a bigger perp.

    If you want to restrain somebody who is stubbornly resisting, without injuring them, you need a lot more bodies on your side.

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    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Booga1 on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:51PM (13 children)

      by Booga1 (6333) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:51PM (#1002349)

      If all you want to do is subdue someone with unrestrained force, one little cop with a billy club can knock out a bigger perp.

      Knocking someone out cleanly and safely with a blow to the head is Hollywood stuff.
      In real life it can result in failure to knock the person out, concussion, traumatic brain injury, permanent disability, and death. Let's not go there.

      • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:55PM (8 children)

        by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:55PM (#1002353)

        All that, and possibly piss them off to extreme fear/rage and you're in much bigger trouble. Pepper spray sometimes works, and sometimes you've got a very angry animal wanting to kill you.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:42PM (7 children)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:42PM (#1002392)

          I'm shocked at the quantity of pepper spray being used... do they have a stockpile that's about to expire or what?

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          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:00PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:00PM (#1002411) Journal

            I'm shocked at the quantity of pepper spray being used...

            It's in the name. The stuff literally grows on bushes and there's a lot of bushes.

          • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:04PM (5 children)

            by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:04PM (#1002703)

            I just read somewhere, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised, that there are already conspiracy theories that the govt. or illumanati or whoever runs the world had this all planned out. Floating around social media there are images and videos of piles of bricks, for example, supposedly planted in strategic locations for the rioters to use. I can't imagine why, what would be the purpose... I have more important things to think about, and do... back to fixin' stuff.

            • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:49PM (4 children)

              by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:49PM (#1002718)

              piles of bricks

              Well that's clearly Illuminiati/Freemasons doing ;-)

              In college (1980s) I was recruited for some kind of secret society vaguely touted to be related to the Illuminati - I declined at the point where they said: "If you go any further there's no turning back." Seemed like a clear choice to me: I'll pass, thanks. Anyway, in the teaser they talked about creation of chaos as the opportunity for change, the opportunity to gain power during chaotic change, etc. On the one hand, it sounded like a bunch of B.S., on the other hand, the guy recruiting me was a foster child from a poor-ish foster family and "the organization" fronted tens of thousands of dollars for him to go to a private university to study political science, and possibly to try to recruit me.

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              • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:44PM (3 children)

                by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:44PM (#1002734)

                I think you're on to something. I would've thought bricks too obvious, but maybe the Freemasons posited that people would think it too obvious and blame the illumanati? And don't discount the Mafia. They killed JFK... wasn't it because he was messing around with Marilyn too much? And what about Sirhan Sirhan? Talk about contrived persons. They didn't have enough time to come up with a 2nd name. Or they thought people would be so distracted by the stutter name that it would throw them off the trail. Kind of like a magician creating distraction. And how do we know you did not join that society? Maybe it was just DND people? How did you put that many bricks everywhere? Maybe the looters put the bricks there to confound everyone else. If we could get the looters to build something with the bricks it'd blow everyone's minds, but we could blame it on coronavirus, which somehow plays into the whole plan but we haven't pieced it all together yet.

                • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:11PM (1 child)

                  by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:11PM (#1002745)

                  Random actors is the simpler explanation, and therefore the more likely.

                  Secret societies do exist... they do have some measure of influence, but IMO modern technology / global connectivity is a strong headwind for them, and they've probably historically overstated their actual influence in order to try to grow their influence in the present/future.

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                  • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:52PM

                    by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:52PM (#1002766)

                    (spooky music playing) We'll probably never know...

                    But seriously, yes, I agree 100%.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:28PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:28PM (#1002796)

                  JFK was killed because he was planning to nationalize the Federal Reserve. If you really want to get rid of Trump, convince him that he had a great idea to nationalize the Fed. Someone will take care of that for you.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:10PM

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:10PM (#1002364)

        cleanly and safely with a blow to the head is Hollywood stuff.

        Yep - the mob "pros" back in prohibition days got pretty reliable results with lead saps to the back of the head, but they didn't care at all whether the guy who got knocked out ever woke up, nor what condition he woke up in.

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      • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:54PM (2 children)

        by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:54PM (#1002817) Journal

        I don't think you're really disagreeing with what Joe Merchant said, other than "take out" instead of "knock out" would have been the better choice. A sap or a blackjack may be even more effective, and back in the day cops and prison guards carried them as well.

        Not disagreeing with you at all, either - such tactics are not permissible and we don't have to go any further.

        Joe Merchant's point, I think, was that there's a big difference between trying to incapacitate someone and restraining someone.

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        • (Score: 2) by Booga1 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:05PM (1 child)

          by Booga1 (6333) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:05PM (#1002871)

          I basically came to the same conclusion after re-reading that statement shortly after I left my comment. My initial reading of that line was that he was suggesting cops should be whacking people upside the head as a "preferred" method of gaining control of a suspect.
          I realized that wasn't the point he was trying to make when he left his response. Tone doesn't always come through in text and I definitely missed it this time. Still, I didn't feel like replying to myself and both of you have made it clearer for other readers. Thanks.

          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:42AM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:42AM (#1003000)

            he was suggesting cops should be whacking people upside the head as a "preferred" method of gaining control of a suspect.

            I guess I know people who do think that, or at least talk like they think like that... certainly doesn't seem to be the kind of thing a rational person would want, but then I don't believe that rational people should walk around with easy lethal force on their hip either.

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    • (Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:50PM (3 children)

      by sjames (2882) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:50PM (#1002399) Journal

      Of course, putting in stitches requires more control of movement than tossing someone into the back of a cop car and closing the door.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:00PM (2 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:00PM (#1002409)

        Thus: 8 orderlies + 2 doses of ketamine.

        Still, when they started with only 4 and one dose of ketamine, he almost got off the bed with them all holding him.

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        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:15PM

          by sjames (2882) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:15PM (#1002427) Journal

          Probably because he wasn't handcuffed and flipped onto his stomach.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:18PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:18PM (#1002429)

          We get it, people can be hard to restrain.

          Are you perhaps suggesting one of the orderlies should have gotten on the bed and held a knee to your son's throat? Or are there perhaps better ways to restrain someone that doesn't involve imminent danger of bodily injury and/or death?

          You need to stop arguing this point as it is irrelevant to this murder.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:11AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:11AM (#1002616)

      The guy was handcuffed early on, before the cop started kneeling on the guys neck. He was sitting on the sidewalk for some time before a cop tried and had trouble getting him into the car, but I saw no violence on his. The guy was still cuffed. There is no way that any kind of choke hold was justified at all, much less standing on his neck for eight or nine minutes. He could barely get the words out "I can't breathe", and the cop, half smiling, just knelt there, choking off circulation to his brain by collapsing the carotid artery, until the guy stopped moving. After watching the videos it's inexplicable that the cops did this for any reason other than a premeditated decision to kill him.

    • (Score: 2) by martyb on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:25PM

      by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:25PM (#1002879) Journal

      For reference, my 125lb 17 year old son (with severe Autism) cut his foot on some glass and we went to the ER. He was cooperative right up to the point where the needle came out for the stitches - wasn't having any of that - but the doc on duty told us he needed stitches an alternative like cyanoacrylate wouldn't hold up on the bottom of the foot and we'd have continued bleeding. So... after 6 hours, various sedatives, and many attempts they eventually dosed him with ketamine, twice, and had no fewer than 8 people holding him down to get the stitches in his foot. Even with that, the stitches were a bit uneven, but they were effective, and months later there's not even a scar.

      I can't imagine how hard that must have been to witness. I'm glad that it, ultimately, things worked out well for your son!

      As for his resistance, sounds about like me at that age. I weighed about the same, but there was not one ounce of fat on me either. I'd think nothing of going out and splitting wood for an hour with a splitting maul. I was on the swim team and would swim the better part of a mile at each day's practice. I was not one to start a fight, but I sure was a wild one when I was threatened; I could squirm out of most any hold. Sadly, bullies saw me as an easy mark, so I had plenty of practice at evading their efforts.

      From TFS:

      While Floyd was handcuffed and lying face down on a city street during an arrest, Derek Chauvin, a white American Minneapolis police officer, kept his knee on the right side of Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; according to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, 2 minutes and 53 seconds of that time occurred after Floyd became unresponsive.

      I watched the entire linked video. I would not condone that being done to anyone, especially after Floyd became unresponsive; they could easily have put him in the police car at that point. The police released the hold only after the ambulance came and the EMTs took him away.

      Were those doctors doing that to your son?

      How long would you stand idly by and not intervene?

      Especially after he becoming unresponsive?

      --
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  • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:53PM (1 child)

    by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:53PM (#1002351)

    And I think George was handcuffed behind his back (?).

    • (Score: 2) by martyb on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:34PM

      by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:34PM (#1002729) Journal

      And I think George was handcuffed behind his back (?).

      Good point. From what I have seen and read, that is correct.

      --
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