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posted by martyb on Tuesday June 02 2020, @07:30PM   Printer-friendly

African-American George Floyd's death has led to marches, demonstrations, acts of violence, and looting across the USA and in other parts of the world. Emotions are running high. We will not attempt to accuse or defend anyone here. Just attempt to lay out the information we have and offer it up for the community to discuss. Many comments about this incident have been posted to unrelated stories on this site. This is, therefore, an attempt to provide one place on SoylentNews where people are encouraged to discuss it. So as to not derail other stories on the site, I kindly ask you focus those comments here.

Wikipedia has a page about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_George_Floyd (permanent link to the page as it appeared at the time of writing):

On May 25, 2020, George Floyd, an African-American man, was killed in the Powderhorn community of Minneapolis, Minnesota. While Floyd was handcuffed and lying face down on a city street during an arrest, Derek Chauvin, a white American Minneapolis police officer, kept his knee on the right side of Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds; according to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, 2 minutes and 53 seconds of that time occurred after Floyd became unresponsive.[3][4][5][6][7] Officers Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng, and Thomas K. Lane participated in Floyd's arrest, with Kueng holding Floyd's back, Lane holding his legs, and Thao looking on and preventing intervention by an onlooker as he stood nearby.[8]:6:24[9][10]

The arrest was made after Floyd was accused of using a counterfeit $20 bill at a market.[11] Police said Floyd physically resisted arrest.[12][13] Some media organizations commented that a security camera from a nearby business did not show Floyd resisting.[14][15] The criminal complaint filed later said that based on body camera footage, Floyd repeatedly said he couldn't breathe while standing outside the police car, resisted getting in the car and intentionally fell down.[16][17][18][19] Several bystanders recorded the event on their smartphones, with one video showing Floyd repeating "Please", "I can't breathe", "Mama", and "Don't kill me" being widely circulated on social media platforms and broadcast by the media.[20] While knee-to-neck restraints are allowed in Minnesota under certain circumstances, Chauvin's usage of the technique has been widely criticized by law enforcement experts as excessive.[21][22][23] All four officers were fired the day after the incident.[24]

[...] Charges: Third-degree murder (Chauvin) Second-degree manslaughter (Chauvin)

This has been extensively covered by the media. Some outlets attempt to put their own interpretations on their coverage with their selection of video footage and with their commentary. It is difficult to find a simple video of the incident. Here is one that has coverage from the time of initial encounter of the police the officers with George Floyd up through his being taken away by ambulance. The video is a composite of shots from a restaurant's surveillance camera (Dragon Wok), Officer body cam, and bystander cell phones. YouTube footage: Full George Floyd Available Footage (21:12). If anyone has more complete footage of the arrest, please mention it clearly (with a link) in the comments.

Lastly, this is a hard time for everybody. Pandemic. Lock-down. Unemployment. Fears. Please be mindful of others' circumstances when commenting. We are a community sprung from a time of challenge. Let us continue to be here for one-another during this difficult time. SoylentNews is People.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:49PM (43 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @08:49PM (#1002347)

    Is murder really political?

    I get it that the POTUS has been trying to use the mass response to this tragedy to rile up his base. But, for the rest of the country (and the world, for that matter), murder is a tragedy. And, regular abuses of power, including murder, by law enforcement is an outrage. That this abuse of power occurs without consequences is criminal. No politics here. Just a demand that rule of law be enforced upon the enforcers.

    I can't fathom what a person who thinks being anti-murder is "political", is thinking.

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:51PM (14 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 02 2020, @09:51PM (#1002400) Journal

    I don't think it is so much about POUTS POTUS.

    I think it is about institutionalized racism in [some] police departments. Acceptance of it by partners, other officers, supervisors and maybe the police chief or mayor. Unwillingness to address it.

    How long ago was the Rodney King beating? March 3, 1991. And the trial? And aftermath of riots?

    Did we learn anything? Did we fix anything?

    Then other cases. For years. Stop and frisk. And more. Baltimore. Chicago.

    Not so long ago August 10, 2014. Ferguson Missouri. Did we learn anything? Did we fix anything? More recently black men being shot in the back. Another black man shot because he reached in his car to produce ID when the cop asked for ID.

    The only thing that has changed is cell phone cameras everywhere. Now more than ever police treat citizens like the enemy. It it telling that police use the term "civilians" like they are an occupation army. They don't say citizens like the 1966 Batman. Holy Dark Emitting Diodes Batman!

    Similarly, remember the Columbine Colorado school shooting? They said "never again" would this happen. How many school shooting or shooters since then? Have we actually done anything about it?

    --
    The people who rely on government handouts and refuse to work should be kicked out of congress.
    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Immerman on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:06PM (3 children)

      by Immerman (3985) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:06PM (#1002481)

      Honestly, even aside from the institutionalized racism, my complaint is that cops can, and regularly do, literally get away with murder. And other crimes even more frequently. Black people suffer the worst of it, but whites aren't exactly safe either.

      We need to bring accountability to all those who abuse their power under color of law, regardless of the color of the victim. All the anti-racist policy and training in the world isn't going to do a damned bit of good so long as there's institutionalized immunity for cops.

      Hold cops accountable for their gross abuses in general, and tackling racist abuses will be a matter of making sure abusing minorities doesn't get "overlooked", rather than a mostly futile effort to get cops help accountable in particular situations.

      • (Score: 2) by qzm on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:54AM (2 children)

        by qzm (3260) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @03:54AM (#1002591)

        You mean like charging with with murder perhaps?

        Do you feel the same about charging those murdering people trying to protect their livelyhoods right now?
        How about those inciting looting and violence? Do you not feel personal property should be protected by said police?

        You know, two wrongs and all.

        • (Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:17AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:17AM (#1002602)

          Where did gp say anything about not holding *everyone* accountable?

          He, correctly, pointed out that certain folks (the police) who have *not* been held accountable for their actions in the past, should be.

          Anything else is just your imagination.

        • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:24AM

          by Immerman (3985) on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:24AM (#1003062)

          Charging is good. Uncommon, but good.

          Conviction and sentencing that matches the severity of their crime is better. And woefully rare.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:07PM (8 children)

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:07PM (#1002706) Journal

      Police kill more white people than black people [statista.com]. Many are not aware of that, because the media doesn't report it, and politicians don't mention it. Why don't they? I have watched many clips online of rioters beating white people senseless or to death because they're white. The media hasn't reported that. Why not? The increasingly strident and open institutional racism against white people is alarming; the categorical condemnation of all white people as racist or malign sits in a pantheon of bigotry next to those who hate Jews because they're Jews, Muslims because they're Muslims, and so on.

      Police violence against civilians, all of us, has been a problem for years. George W. Bush thought it would be a good idea to transfer military weapons and equipment to police departments across America. They then have been using that against civilians. They have been using it disproportionately against poor communities because they can get away with it; they would never get away with those tactics in Westchester, NY (ultra-wealthy area north of New York City).

      There is an additional complication in that police unions and the "Thin Blue Line"/Omerta make it difficult to weed bad apples out of the force. The cop in question in the George Floyd murder had been written up over and over.

      Lastly, the President and Congress really don't have the ability to do much about it under our federal system. They don't hire and fire police, municipalities do. And these incidents keep happening in big cities that are invariably controlled by Democrats, the ones who constantly claim that they're the good guys when it comes to matters of racism. Minneapolis is a Blue Town in a Blue State. New York City is a Blue Town in a Blue State. So, either that tells us that they're the racists, because they are directly responsible for those police departments, or it indicates that racism is not what's going on.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by TheRaven on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:04PM (3 children)

        by TheRaven (270) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:04PM (#1002720) Journal

        Many are not aware of that, because the media doesn't report it

        The media does report it, frequently, but they normalise their data. Let's look at last year's data from that chart. A total of 802 people with recorded ethnicity were killed by the police:

        • Black people killed by police: 235 (29%)
        • White people killed by police: 370 (46%)
        • Hispanic people killed by police: 158 (20%)
        • Other people killed by police: 39.

        Now, let's compare those numbers to the total population of the USA:

        • Black: 12.7%
        • White: 73%
        • Hispanic: 17.6%

        So, black people make up 12.7% of the population, but 29% of the people who are killed by police. If you are black, you are more than twice as likely to be killed by police.

        Comparing the absolute numbers and ignoring the distribution tells me that you are either really bad at statistics or you're intentionally misusing statistics for racist reasons. Which is it?

        --
        sudo mod me up
        • (Score: 3, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:26PM (2 children)

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:26PM (#1002795) Journal

          Clearly you're not bothered that twice as many white people are killed by cops as are black people. Is it because you think the white people are all guilty and bad, while all the black people are all innocent and good? Are you really bad at statistics or are you intentionally misusing statistics for racist reasons?

          I'm making this point for a reason, because to support your unstated premise, that the cops are arresting (or attempting to arrest and unlawfully killing suspects) black people disproportionately because they are racist, you have to ignore the other statistics that black people commit crimes at a higher rate than white people. You are picking and choosing which statistics you trust, and which you discount. I am pretty sure you're going to immediately declare that the statistics you don't like are racist, too.

          I said what I said because I have been seeing clips of the anchors of major news networks declaring that white people are categorically racist. I have been watching them say things that would instantly get them fired if they said the same of Jews, or LGBT people, or any other group. It's bigoted, and wrong.

          The cops should not be killing any suspects no matter what color they are. Their job is to arrest them and bring them to the courts, not to summarily execute them.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:17PM

            by Freeman (732) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @05:17PM (#1002837) Journal

            Well, they shouldn't be using excessive force. Which is exactly what they did in the George Floyd case. They should definitely be using deadly force, in certain situations. Not when dealing with an unruly suspect, who might have used a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes. Is counterfeit currency even that big of a problem nowadays? The officers in question had a serious lapse in judgment, if they weren't actually trying to kill him.

            --
            Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:46PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:46PM (#1003247)

            Clearly you're not bothered that twice as many white people are killed by cops as are black people. Is it because you think the white people are all guilty and bad, while all the black people are all innocent and good? Are you really bad at statistics or are you intentionally misusing statistics for racist reasons?

            You're *deliberately* taking the numbers out of context. Non-hispanic whites make up ~61% of the US population. Blacks make up ~13% of the population. [wikipedia.org]

            If there's no bias among cops, whites should be ~4.5 times *more* likely to be killed by police than blacks. If ~2,450 whites were killed by cops (source: https://www.statista.com/chart/21857/people-killed-in-police-shootings-in-the-us/ [statista.com] ), you'd expect that ~550 blacks would be killed by cops.

            Except that since 2015, ~4600 people have been killed by cops in the US. OF those, ~2450 were white and ~1300 were black.

            Given the differences in population between blacks and whites, that means that blacks are more than twice as likely to be killed by cops than whites.

            Why don't you go walk over to the other side of Grand Army Plaza and try running this bullshit on those folks? Or even better, the other side of Prospect Park. They'll love you over on Eastern Parkway!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:08PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:08PM (#1002875)

        This is not an accident. Who controls the media? The history books? The financial systems of many nations of the world? This is about White slavery and genocide that started a long time ago. Bolshevik Revolution, Holodomor, WW1, WW2.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Immerman on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:46AM (2 children)

        by Immerman (3985) on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:46AM (#1003065)

        How about instead of fighting about who gets screwed worse, we pull together and agitate for cops to start getting charged (and convicted!) of assault and murder no matter what color their victims? Then *everybody* wins.

        As for the numbers - sure, more white people get killed, and black people are something like 3x more likely to get killed (and a lot more likely to be assaulted too).

        As for the federal government not being able to do anything about it - here's the best idea I've heard on how to do it practically overnight via Executive Order: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M71z6K7IkjU [youtube.com]

        TD;DR version: Establish an independent civilian oversight organization that investigates complaints of cops using excessive force, and their department's response. Any time an officer gets off easy, his department loses all access to federal funding, military-hardware, etc.

        • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:03PM (1 child)

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:03PM (#1003187) Journal

          his department loses all access to federal funding, military-hardware, etc.

          Police departments should not have military hardware. That is a big part of the problem: it leads the cops to think they should be playing soldier, fighting civilians.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:16PM

            by Immerman (3985) on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:16PM (#1003193)

            I agree. But so long as we're offering it, attaching some really heavy strings is a good way to make sure it's not being abused. And after a while departments might even realize that it's kind of pointless getting the hardware if they don't get to abuse it.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @09:23AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @09:23AM (#1003647)

      I've been reading the reddit threads on this the past few days, as well as twitter and a lot of conservative types are asking 'Where is the sympathy for white men murdered by police.'

      Check out /r/2020PoliceBrutality and /r/PoliceBrutality Both of which make mention of murdered white men, black men, and native americans, as well as the mentally ill. What we see looking into these cases is no long term changes, most of the officers back on the force, and institutionalized incompetence on the parts of the law enforcement leadership leading to the deaths of individuals, many of which weren't considered clear and immediate threats (ie no weapons and no actually aggressive actions towards cops.) Our Military Police have a higher standard of engagement than our Civilan Law Enforcement do. OUR SOLDIERS have a higher burden of proof with foreign civilians, even among groups that might be utilizing asymmetric warefare using disguised assets. But our civilian cops are getting away with it, often with backpay and few or no effects on their advancement. Even of the ones who are permanently discharged from their positions at a particuar department, around 1/4 to 1/2 of them are later found working at another police department with a new list of complaints or official actions against them. And yet they just keep working. That should tell you something about the systemic issues in American law enforcement, as well as the responses of some members of the community who think this behavior is appropriate. Maybe if they were treated the same way by law enforcement we could see how they felt about that treatment afterwards.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:05PM (18 children)

    by hemocyanin (186) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:05PM (#1002415) Journal

    There's something like 96-98% agreement that the officers' acts where horrific and that policing needs to change.

    I doubt there's as much support for destroying the neighborhoods and livelihoods of people who agree with the protestors and who also had nothing at all to do with what happened to Floyd.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:34PM (17 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @10:34PM (#1002442)

      I doubt there's as much support for destroying the neighborhoods and livelihoods of people who agree with the protestors and who also had nothing at all to do with what happened to Floyd.

      I agree. In fact, looting/rioting has been roundly criticized by pretty much everyone. Including the protestors. In fact, there have repeated instances of legitimate protestors *stopping* the criminals who are trying to take advantage of the cover of night, the protests and the fact that most folks are staying at home trying to limit the spread of Coronavirus.

      What's more, video and other independent reporting makes it clear that those engaged in violence/looting are *not* the same folks who are protesting peacefully. Those who do engage in violence and looting need to be prosecuted for their crimes.

      However, that does *not* mean that those peacefully exercising their First Amendment rights should be stopped from doing so.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:48PM (16 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:48PM (#1002496)

        Yeah, the cops are using the rioters as an excuse to brutalize countless innocent people. In some cases, cops are marching down the street and demanding people who are standing on their own property to get in their houses and shooting projectiles at them if they don't. Anyone remotely libertarian should be screaming about this rampant authoritarianism, as it's yet more evidence that the entire system needs to be reformed from the ground-up.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by hemocyanin on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:03AM (9 children)

          by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:03AM (#1002523) Journal

          For reference, the videos mentioned above can be seen here:

          Protestors, some antifa moron, "Take His Ass": https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267335981092478981 [twitter.com]
          People standing on their porch being subjected to police state: https://streamable.com/u2jzoo [streamable.com]

          • (Score: 4, Interesting) by captain normal on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:50AM (7 children)

            by captain normal (2205) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:50AM (#1002541)
            • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:33AM (6 children)

              by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:33AM (#1002644) Journal

              NYT? *eyeroll*

              The Pacific NW has seen what antifa and antifa-adjacent can do very clearly between Portland where they are a constant darling of the press and local government despite causing seven figures in damage during the tantrum of the 2016 election. https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2016/11/pearl_district_ne_portland_wak.html [oregonlive.com] There's also the whole Evergreen College Brett Weinstein debacle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Wny9TstEM&list=PLRdayXEOwuMG9DG66Bvx6YbUnhw-buS5K [youtube.com]

              • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:04PM (5 children)

                by captain normal (2205) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:04PM (#1002893)

                Oregon Live ? You Tube? *eyeroll*
                Where is there evidence that the damage in the Portland rioting was caused by Antifa and not by far right militants? Certainly not in either of your links.
                https://www.citylab.com/equity/2020/06/george-floyd-protests-vehicle-attacks-police-trucks-cars/612487/?srnd=premium [citylab.com]

                --
                When life isn't going right, go left.
                • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:18AM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:18AM (#1002991)

                  Antifa are far right militants.

                  • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:08AM (2 children)

                    by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:08AM (#1003023) Journal

                    They just won't admit it.

                    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:08AM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:08AM (#1003059)

                      You are so far off base. Antifa has no organization, but fighting fascist violence with violence is not hypocritical in the slightest. Anyone who is engaging in fascist activities is not Antifa.

                      The absolute worst condemnation of Antifa so far is throwing milkshakes with concrete in them, but given the evidence that is either complete bullshit or the concrete was the least concrete substance ever.

                      So, worst offense by "antifa" is an attack that gave someone a mark under their eye. Compared to police attacks on peaceful protesters resulting in multiple 4+ inch bruises on people that is child's play. Compared to actual far right terrorists bombing clinics and murdering people I think your priorities are fucked.

                      Hemocyanin, you need to reevaluate your life choices.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:36AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @04:36AM (#1003063)

                        Antifa has no organization

                        That's what they'd like you to believe. In reality, it has central figures, much like the Anonymous hacktivists did. The government is monitoring their communications and looking for an excuse to round them all up.

                • (Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:11AM

                  by hemocyanin (186) on Thursday June 04 2020, @02:11AM (#1003025) Journal

                  When a local newspaper gets us into a war in the Middle East, I'll roll my eyes at them too.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:26AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:26AM (#1002629)

            "Light 'em up!" == a totally normal response for someone who is legally complying with your curfew order.

        • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:13PM (3 children)

          by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:13PM (#1002708) Journal

          Let's consider that on the street, masses of people are not wearing different color t-shirts to signal that they're there for peaceful protest or looting or violence. You look at a crowd of people holding signs, and then somewhere, just past the front ranks, somebody starts throwing molotov cocktails. Others jump out and beat an old couple to death and then melt back into the crowd.

          As the police, what do you do then, just let it continue that way?

          Of course not. You clear the street.

          Peaceful protest is absolutely protected under law. Violence and looting are not. It sucks that criminals (practiced, or imminent) use the cover of lawful activity to commit crimes, but when they do the police must clear the street. The burden of suppressing the lawful exercise of free speech is then on the criminals, not on the police.

          --
          Washington DC delenda est.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:12PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @06:12PM (#1002876)

            So making it easy for cops to assault and arrest innocent people is preferred?

            Hopefully one day you'll realize that such attitudes are why protests and riots keep happening. People don't like injustice, cops should have body cam footage that someone is actually breaking the law in order to arrest them.

            "But that's haaaard" whines the old white boomer :|

          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:53AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:53AM (#1003056)

            You need to read the history of unions. You're absolutely incorrect, and everyone stating that protesting is protected, is a little full of shit.

            It's been forgotten through time, but there were peaceful protests for the 10-hour day (predated the 8-hour day movement). "Police", or law enforcement that also moonlighted for rich interests (Railroad Robbin' Barons), murdered women and children in the street to send a message. This is a fact in our history.

            The "Coal Police" were very much a real thing, and union members back then risked being "disappeared" by them if they became too effective.

            A large number of protests in this country have been about working conditions and the middle class being treated like "human capital stock". Chicago police in particular are known for brutal moonlighting. Read up on this history, because in many cases it was paid agitators or police in disguise that started the violence in the first place. Either that, or it was the police that started shooting.

            The NLRB itself was created to take the teeth out of protesting, legally. In exchange for mandatory participation by the owners/managers, many forms of protest were made illegal. Talk to the unions in San Fransisco about the police getting into it with dock workers protesting.

            In the last week, there has been evidence of police starting the violence. So the real truth of is that not all riots were purely caused by the rioters, especially when it's a "riot" that developed from a protest situation and not the wrong sports team winning with football hooligans tearing up the place.

            Peaceful protestors, and the press covering them, are routinely abused by law enforcement. Put on buses without bathrooms, locked in handcuffs for 18 hours, not fed. You know, being mistreated and deeply abused by hate filled officers. I say hate filled, because I don't know how decent humans treat other humans like that. Perhaps there are popular behavioral experiments that could explain police behavior? Just perhaps.

            No, the "police" have always been against us. They have always ostensibly served at our pleasure, but the truth is, they're just paid enforcers and murderers for the 1 percent. It has ALWAYS been the police against protestors, which is just another way of saying that has always been police against the working man and unions. The police are the buffer between the poor, the middle class, and the upper classes.

            Only difference here for black people specifically is perhaps the playing field and conditions. War on drugs instead of a factory, material deprivation, programs targeted against minorities. Black people have poor working conditions, wage theft, and all the standard union refrains, IN ADDITION TO, the systemic racism they must deal with. Unfortunately, as MLK said, the riot is the language of the unheard. Black protestors have been pushed into a corner for a long damn time, and it's too easy to demonize and deflect because of a small percentage of looters and criminal opportunists. Not to mention many interests on the ground with their own agendas trying to take advantage of the situation

            Your point about white people being the majority abused by police is somewhat correct, and it's not reported enough, but it also doesn't matter. It is happening to black people many times more than it is happening to white people, and it is not commensurate with the percentage of the whole. What's worse, is that white people seem to not want to believe this. Even with video, it seems that the only cases that matter are when the victim is black. I don't find that a coincidence, but a concerted effort to continue to divide us.

            That's because one of the best men this country has ever seen, tirelessly worked on behalf of the unions and the workers, because he knew the SECRET. Before the Civil War started, this man would speak at union gatherings and conventions about how the "negro must be embraced as our brother, and brought into the unions". If white and black people ever came together? If they became organized and unified in a union of brothers and sisters seeking common goals?

            The power in this country would shit themselves in abject fucking terror. Black people have to deal with a lot more shit, and for a long damn time. It's about time the dam burst, and I can only hope that a critical mass of multi-ethnic multi-racial people will organize to tear the whole system down.

            • (Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 05 2020, @01:46PM

              by Phoenix666 (552) on Friday June 05 2020, @01:46PM (#1003721) Journal

              When riots break out, what do you want to happen? Do you want them to destroy the stores you need? Do you want them to burn your home to the ground, drag you and your family out and beat you to death on your front lawn? You want the police and national guard to stand down then?

              Well, I'll tell you what you get if you do that: real civil war. If the government abdicates its responsibility to maintain law and order, citizens will do it themselves. They will make mistakes, because they are not trained for chaotic situations. Innocent people will die. That will stoke more anger, and pretty soon the streets run with blood. How well do you think that works out for people who are 13% of the population as they start a race war against the people who are 73% of the population?

              There comes a point at which there's no turning back from that eventuality. We've been heading toward that point for 30 years, and are very close now.

              --
              Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:09PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:09PM (#1002898)

          yes, this incident and many other are directly or indirectly due to the unconstitutional (criminal) drug war and it's offspring the Prison Industrial Complex, militarized police, etc. Whites need to quit being passive aggressive with their laws and votes, be honest with themselves and just decide if they want to live in a multicultural society or not. If not, organize, buy land in one area, buy people out who don't fit the mold, and take that area over politically. Don't enforce fed laws locally and repel/disappear invading feds or other invaders after fair warning.

          This country is lost as a white nation, at least for now. Either get used to being the scapegoat and a second class citizen, per the Bolshevik cultural marxists' agenda, as the shell of the powerhouse you built is captured by ingrates incapable of sustaining it long term, or get busy building a defensible racial homeland! There could be a region for black nationalists (southeast), a region for "viva la raza" folk (southwest), a region for people who think they want to live in a multicultural society, etc. Perhaps under a mutual protection/anti-aggression pact/confederacy.

          Also, just the proposal of an amicable, peaceful split is probably cultural relativism on my part, as none of these freeloaders will let Whites leave peacefully. They will do anything to stop Whites from having a safe prosperous country free from intervention and manipulation. Just look at what they did to Germany for trying to kick the Jew saboteurs and interlopers out and rebuild their country. Just a continuation of WW1. They killed millions and then sent in their conquered red horde to rape the remaining civilian women and children. That's what this is all about. Just look at what the media and complicit whore corps are doing with TV in general. If you can't see the writing on the wall, you're fucking blind.

          Super wealthy Jews like Rothchild and race traitor internationalist banksters/captains of industry, using reality TV stars like Trump to keep the dumb White funding and supporting their own destruction, while the machine for White Genocide is built. Learn about real history if you think this is crazy talk. Why do you think the Jews in congress and big tech are panicking to censor the internet? People are finding out everything they have been taught about history, religion, rights/law and economics is a (largely Jew) lie; that's why.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @06:40AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @06:40AM (#1003096)

            Right on my white brother!

            I don't care that there's more genetic "diversity" between "white folks" than between various ethnic groups.

            Murder, violence and oppression are just fine as long as it's us superior white folks doing the murder, violence and oppression.

            Kill the Jew! Kill the Nigger!

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:54PM (4 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday June 02 2020, @11:54PM (#1002502)

    I can't fathom what a person who thinks being anti-murder is "political", is thinking.

    It's really simple: They agree with killing the person in question. The closest most people who think this way get to openly expressing their agreement is a sense of "Guy got killed by a cop? He musta done something!" Usually the reason for that agreement is, in the US at least, either a belief in racism or authoritarianism. Not that any racists or authoritarianists will admit it.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:20AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:20AM (#1002547)

      Well, I have to admit that I used to think that if some random guy got killed by a cop that he must have done something wrong. Sure, I understood that there were some rogue cops out there, but I guess I wanted to believe that they were the exception and not the rule. I think that what has played a big role in changing my thinking is that we now have so much video evidence that it becomes near impossible to avoid the obvious, that we have a serious chronic problem here.

      I used to think that maybe blacks were exaggerating the problem. Now I'm beginning to think that maybe they weren't being alarmist enough in their denunciations.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:44PM (2 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @02:44PM (#1002733)

        I would read that as your younger self being somewhat authoritarian in outlook, e.g. assuming that because a cop says one thing and a civilian says something else, the cop is necessarily in the right. That's usually not your fault: A lot of kids get taught to obey authority figures (parents, teachers, cops, bosses, commanding officers, etc) before they're old enough to know any better.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @09:45AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 05 2020, @09:45AM (#1003649)

          Community figures.

          Priests, schoolteachers, etc are taught as being 'good' people, rather than teaching us/our children to only trust them within the confines of very specific duties that are part of their job (splashing you with holy water or leading you in prayer, being in a public classroom to teach you, o rpulling you into the hallway to have a discussion about your conduct, but in neither positions case taken into an isolated office away from other people where you can't yell.)

          Most of us are brought up with overtly evil boogeymen and groups of 'good guys' who are beyond reproach, because even when they do bad things it's for good reasons, when in reality the 'good guys' just have better optics, and sometimes the 'bad guys' are actually doing something that is optically bad, morally ambiguous, but cannot be argued against full given the circumstances and reasons for their stance (think about some of the ecoterrorist types in 60s-80s cinema, who were obviously evil, and yet were working on or utilizing 'green' technologies which would have improved the world, but for reasons outside their control could not.) There is a lot of optics, indoctrination, and might makes right forcing intellectually stunted masses to obey and conform, rather than to question and reproach or correct.

        • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Friday June 05 2020, @10:24AM

          by acid andy (1683) on Friday June 05 2020, @10:24AM (#1003658) Homepage Journal

          I very much agree and a further epiphany for me in adulthood was that even when you reach a point where you tell yourself you know better about these authority figures, even to the point of telling yourself they're more likely corrupt than not, it's likely you still have subconscious biases based on that childhood mental model your brain formed for these people. The realization that they're all regular guys and gals, in many cases less competent and probably just as out of their depth as you or I would be in their roles, and often highly flawed or pathological, is quite profound. From there you can come to a similar realization about corporations and their products and services, that beneath all the marketing and PR, they're just a load of regular guys too, very often with no real clue what they're doing.

          Undoubtedly the sharing of information on the internet is helping to pull the masks off these figures, but it can't instantly fix people's mental models. Many people with never see beyond their own subconscious biases.

          --
          If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by ilPapa on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:40AM (3 children)

    by ilPapa (2366) on Wednesday June 03 2020, @01:40AM (#1002537) Journal

    Is murder really political?

    When it's murder by someone who has been given license to kill by the power structure and the victim is a traditionally oppressed class, you're goddamn right it's political.

    --
    You are still welcome on my lawn.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:50AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @04:50AM (#1002609)

      Yeap - add in the fact that this isn't the first time it has happened and nothing meaningful have been done in prior events to move toward resolving it.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:16PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 03 2020, @07:16PM (#1002900)

      fuck the seditious police, but you can shove your "traditionally oppressed class" cultural marxist propaganda up your ass.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:54PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:54PM (#1003254)

        Ignorant of history [nytimes.com], I see. Good show.

        I'm not sure how much more of a "traditionally oppressed class" that African Americans could be:
        1. 250 years of chattel slavery;
        2. 100 more years of legally sanctioned discrimination;
        3. Another 50 years of semi-sanctioned discrimination.

        What does a group need to do to be considered "oppressed?" Be wiped out entirely? Geez Louise!