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How to make the food and water Mars-bound astronauts will need for their mission:
If we ever intend to send crewed missions to deep-space locations, then we need to come up with solutions for keeping the crews supplied. For astronauts aboard the International Space Station (ISS), who regularly receive resupply missions from Earth, this is not an issue. But for missions traveling to destinations like Mars and beyond, self-sufficiency is the name of the game.
This is the idea behind projects like BIOWYSE and TIME SCALE, which are being developed by the Centre for Interdisciplinary Research in Space (CIRiS) in Norway. These two systems are all about providing astronauts with a sustainable and renewable supply of drinking water and plant food. In so doing, they address two of the most important needs of humans performing long-duration missions that will take them far from home.
[...] In short, the ISS relies on costly resupply missions to provide 20% of its water and all of its food. But if and when astronauts establish outposts on the moon and Mars, this may not be an option. While sending supplies to the moon can be done in three days, the need to do so regularly will make the cost of sending food and water prohibitive. Meanwhile, it takes eight months for spacecraft to reach Mars, which is totally impractical.
So it is little wonder that the proposed mission architectures for the moon and Mars include in-situ resource utilization (ISRU), in which astronauts will use local resources to be as self-sufficient as possible. Ice on the lunar and Martian surfaces, a prime example, will be harvested to provide drinking and irrigation water. But missions to deep-space locations will not have this option while they are in transit.
[...] Technologies like these will be crucial when it comes time to establish a human presence on the moon, on Mars, and for the sake of deep-space missions. In the coming years, NASA plans to make the long-awaited return to the moon with Project Artemis, which will be the first step in the creation of what they envision as a program for "sustainable lunar exploration."
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday June 03 2020, @09:14PM (19 children)
8 months is dumb. 3-6 months is doable, and even down to 1-2 months could be possible with in-orbit refueling. But you're right, the length of time doesn't matter that much. You won't be sending water too much outside of initial and emergency supplies, since unlike the ISS, you can obtain water on Mars or the Moon. A lot of dehydrated, calorie-dense food could be sent if payload capacity is high, and it can be grown later.
Still, the Moon is a good place to get started. It lacks the useful carbon dioxide and nitrogen atmosphere, but it's much easier to reach, and you can get nearly constant solar power at the poles.
All space endeavors would be made much easier with a cheap-to-build, fully reusable, orbital-refueling spacecraft. Let's hope they stop blowing up soon [teslarati.com].
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(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 03 2020, @09:45PM (16 children)
I wonder if 8 months is the transit time for least-optimal conjunction...
In any event, they have a an agenda to push, and it's a good agenda, I just wish people wouldn't say dumb stuff to back up good ideas.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday June 03 2020, @11:41PM (14 children)
Since food and supplies can withstand far far higher acceleration g-forces than humans, the food could be gotten there much faster and much less costly with a giant slingshot. Laugh now, but you know I'm right. :)
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 04 2020, @12:45AM (11 children)
Should be one of the earlier moon development projects: a huge solar powered linear accelerator. Now, is it more practical to build it on the lunar surface, or at a Lagrange point, or maybe just above LEO?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by RS3 on Thursday June 04 2020, @01:22AM (10 children)
Ahh, spoken like a true dedicated engineer! All great ideas, but you've forgotten the financials my man! Giant rubber band launcher will sell tickets! We'll build it in the Daytona raceway infield and fill the stands. It'll pay for itself by the 4th launch! Eventually it'll generate enough cash to fund your lofty (cough cough) ideas. :)
(Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:00AM (9 children)
The Daytona infield is the only part of that track worth racing on - unless you're NASCAR, and again - that's definitely where the money is.
Somehow we've got to get Budweiser to sponsor the space program, if we pull that off we can be at Alpha Centauri in 20 years.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 04 2020, @05:08AM (8 children)
Okay, we offer to laser print a giant AB, or Bud, or something catchy on the moon.
(Score: 2, Funny) by anubi on Thursday June 04 2020, @07:30AM (4 children)
Heh, heh, a Bud Light...
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:18PM (3 children)
See, someone here gets it!
And, it'd be Corona-free, another selling point.
(see, we don't need to advertise Corona beer, cuz...)
BTW, wasn't "Anubi" the name of the mummy in one of Boris Karloff's mummy attack movies?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by anubi on Thursday June 04 2020, @09:58PM (2 children)
I could not resist that...being the moon is a source of illumination.
Anubi might be the mummy. I saw an image of Anubis, the dog, thought it looked cool, and kinda adopted it as an avatar. Anubis was already taken at another site I was on, Anubi wasn't, so I took it.
Egyptian god of the dead, I suppose, but I thought it was such a beautiful work of art.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 04 2020, @10:52PM (1 child)
I once mooned a camera. NOBODY was enlightened. It wasn't a full moon. In fact, pretty much not at all, but the shutterbug got the hint that I didn't want my picture taken.
I've always liked Egyptian archaeology, art, structures, etc. Roughly 10 years ago a good friend of mine did some work in Tut's tomb. Long story. Basically and very sadly there is a TON of "development" going on in the area, and the new population of course needs running water and wells and are significantly depleting the water tables under the pyramids, tombs, etc. Not intuitively obvious, but there's normally a fair amount of moisture coming up from underground, even in a desert (unless there's no water table, or it's thousands of feet down). Anyway, the ancient artwork, frescos, etc., are crumbling and falling off the walls because of it. Sigh.
Actually I though you were word playing on "a newbie". Either way, it's catchy.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by anubi on Friday June 05 2020, @01:45AM
Thanks... That too. A newbie. It kinda fit.
I'm more a circuit designer, and dabble in most anything, albeit I will chase lots of squirrels up the wrong tree until I get the hang of it.
Like you, i find studies of the ancients of this area very fascinating. Especially the Sumerians. I am convinced something really big happened with this planet back then, and it's been used and covered up by those seeking leadership over the masses.
Something to do with stone masonry left as evidence.
There is a story here worthy of the finest Star Trek.
I surmise we were seeded. Planted here by some far more technically advanced. And we "lost it", hence my disdain for copyright. Technical knowledge is far too precious to sequester, and rot back to the nothing it came from.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 04 2020, @01:00PM (2 children)
Back in the '60s the proposal was that Coca Cola would do it...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:21PM (1 child)
LoL, I do remember hearing that. They had that round logo, it would've worked well. They just needed a lot of red dust from Mars.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:43PM
After people got irate about defacing the moon, there was even talk of some kind of chemical dispersal to temporarily make the logo "glow".
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Muad'Dave on Thursday June 04 2020, @11:42AM (1 child)
Good point, but somehow you have to have the energy to slow them down when they get to Mars, unless you want all your food reduced to ash on atmospheric entry.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 04 2020, @03:23PM
No no, you do it at the right speed and angle of entry and your food is brazed to perfection.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Immerman on Thursday June 04 2020, @06:18AM
8.6 months (259 days) is the maximally efficient Hohmann transfer orbit during optimal planetary alignment ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit [wikipedia.org] ) - one burst of acceleration at Earth to put you on a path that will just graze Mars' orbit at the opposite side of the sun (half an orbit later), and another burst to circularize your orbit (match speed with Mars) once you get there. Or vice-versa.
That's the flight plan you'd probably use for bulk cargo flights where you don't really care how long it takes to make the trip.
All other flight plans consume more energy since you have to accelerate to faster than necessary to reach Mars orbit, and then slow down to avoid overshooting, essentially throwing away energy in order to shorten the trip. You also only have a Hohmann launch window once every two years when the two planets line up properly - any other time you have to take one of those less-efficient flight plans. And for half the time the planetary alignment will be "backwards", so that the flight will take longer even with the less efficient flight plan (unless you plan to waste orders of magnitude more energy than required for the optimal flight)
You are right about the net energy for the trips being the same, but so long as we rely on rockets for propulsion there's no way to reclaim the wasted energy. Giant spinning "slings" or other such mechanisms that could "catch" incoming ships and transfer their excess momentum to departing ones could make that a reality, but we're probably a long way away from building such things.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday June 04 2020, @01:13PM (1 child)
It's the emergency supplies that may not be able to wait 1-2 months. They'd have to hope there aren't any emergencies.
-- hendrik
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Thursday June 04 2020, @01:40PM
When the first astronaut steps foot on Mars, there should already be 20+ Starships standing around in the vicinity filled with supplies. Ideally, with buildings, solar arrays, etc. already set up in advance by robots, but maybe they have to do it themselves. There should be thousands of gallons of water, with plenty of it available for closed-loop habitats that recycle as much water as possible. And there should be equipment for extracting and melting Martian ice water.
$20 million per 100 metric tons could be the rate at which Mars is spammed with supplies. Compare to the ISS which was about $50 billion for 420 tons.
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