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Life-saving coronavirus drug 'major breakthrough':
A cheap and widely available drug can help save the lives of patients seriously ill with coronavirus.
The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.
The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus.
[...] The drug is already used to reduce inflammation in a range of other conditions, and it appears that it helps stop some of the damage that can happen when the body's immune system goes into overdrive as it tries to fight off coronavirus.
[...] In the trial, led by a team from Oxford University, around 2,000 hospital patients were given dexamethasone and were compared with more than 4,000 who did not receive the drug.
For patients on ventilators, it cut the risk of death from 40% to 28%. For patients needing oxygen, it cut the risk of death from 25% to 20%.
Chief investigator Prof Peter Horby said: "This is the only drug so far that has been shown to reduce mortality - and it reduces it significantly. It's a major breakthrough."
[...] Dexamethasone has been used since the early 1960s to treat a wide range of conditions, such as rheumatoid arthritis and asthma.
[...] The drug is given intravenously in intensive care, and in tablet form for less seriously ill patients. So far, the only other drug proven to benefit Covid patients is remdesivir, an antiviral treatment which has been used for Ebola.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Sulla on Tuesday June 16 2020, @07:55PM (19 children)
China already investigated steroids months ago and said it makes you die faster. Do yourself and Chairman Xi a solid and refuse to take this medicine.
On dexamethasone,
First question I had was whether there was a link between this drug (steroids in general) and ACE2.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.149039v2 [biorxiv.org]
That is pretty interesting, and similar to the ideas of how nicotine would work. Big difference is that the steroids would have the benefit of reducing possibility of infection without increasing the mortality. The difference in mortality reduction between ventilators and oxygen isn't clear to me. I would expect those on oxygen only (less severe cases) would see a bigger drop in mortality than on ventilators. I didn't RTFA because Azuma had a good summary, but does the article talk about length of time the patients were on the ventilator? Reduction of time on ventilator alone will decrease mortality. Or is the reduction in inflammation putting the patients at less risk of over-inflation of lungs?
On a side note,
Did new information come out on remdesivir come out that I missed? The studies I have seen so far showed that it helped people get over SARS-nCoV-2 sooner but did not lower mortality.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @08:27PM (1 child)
I had heard about a drug used for arthritis that could be repurposed to fight the inflammation, and I would not trust either USA or China on this, if anything because covid escaped a lab or was planted by some pretty deep deep state.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @11:22PM
But I go to Sulla for all my pharmaceutical investment advice!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @08:49PM (1 child)
Well even if it doesn't have any effect on your chance of dying from the illness, assuming you do not die then recovering faster surely counts as a beneficial result, no?
In fact this is exactly the clinical benefit TFA attributes to remdesivir: "The antiviral drug remdesivir ... appears to shorten recovery time for people with coronavirus ..."
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Sulla on Wednesday June 17 2020, @06:03AM
https://www.fiercepharma.com/marketing/gilead-s-covid-19-therapy-remdesivir-worth-4-460-per-course-says-pricing-watchdog [fiercepharma.com]
For that price I can suffer a few extra days if it doesn't increase my chance of survival
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 5, Interesting) by RS3 on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:04AM
It's important to remember that many infectious diseases don't kill you directly by themselves, rather you die from the effects, such as severe lung dysfunction in COVID-19, pneumonia, etc., which (sadly) is caused by inflammation, which is caused by immune response.
My take on it: if you're on ventilator, you're in much worse shape due to worse lung inflammation, and the dexa does more good.
My take, again: if you're on O2 no ventilator, your immune system is having some success, and if anything the steroid could hurt immune system.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:44AM (10 children)
https://www.c-span.org/video/?426290-1/tom-nichols-discusses-the-death-expertise [c-span.org]
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday June 17 2020, @06:05AM (2 children)
Originally i was just going to post about how the CCP claims steroids don't work and won't work and that they will actually make you die. CCP has been spreading all sorts of rumors against successful treatments this whole pandemic. But then I rambled on about other subjects and didn't go back and change the title.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:21PM (1 child)
Fair enough. My intent wasn't to scold you Sulla.
Rather, I made the point because too many folks go on about "fake news," without a clear sense of what that might be.
What's more, the quote I linked is the best definition that I've heard and I'd hope it might spark discussion about how we consume news and information -- at least among those who are willing to have reasoned discussions about such things, rather than just demonizing news outlets they think are "on the wrong team."
The truth isn't a team sport. There are, unfortunately, folks who don't care about facts that don't support their world view. Which is really sad.
As we've seen in the US (and other places, but I live in the US so I see more of that), there are folks who seek to diminish or ignore inconvenient facts, in order to promote their own "side." This is especially true among the twitterati and those seeking to game the social media environment for the personal and political gain of their "team."
Sure, we have differences, sometimes bitter ones. At the same time, we have much more in common than we do differences, no matter how bitter those differences might be.
Treating our neighbors, co-workers and family as "the enemy" because we don't agree about some things is really counterproductive.
That said, there are small, very vocal groups, who espouse division and seek to gain from creating those divisions. This is exacerbated by other folks who seek to widen those divisions to gain/retain power and influence.
I've gone pretty far afield with this comment myself, so I'll try to come back to the original premise:
Sure, there are folks out there (including the Chinese government) who will say just about anything (including straight-up lies) to win points for their "side."
I find it disgusting, regardless of who does it. I forget who said it, but the saw "you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts," applies in spades.
Let's disagree. Let's argue about policies and priorities. At the same time, let's be willing to agree about the stuff we can agree upon instead of focusing *only* on the few things we disagree about.
In order to do so, we need to be able to agree upon what the *facts* are. Actual "fake news" threatens our ability to do so.
Those that attempt to muddy the waters by calling opinion "fake news" makes it harder to do so. More's the pity.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Thursday June 18 2020, @12:08AM
Ah. I use the term "fake news" for everything.
Kid claims he wasnt throwing stuff on the roof? Tell kid he is full of fake news
Open the fridge to get some eggs but they are all gone? Eggs are fake news
Go to cigar shop but they are closed early for the night? Text owner he is fake news
My usage is probably 95+% inconvenient things are fake news, and 5% referring to actual fake news. I actually had not considered that others use the term seriously.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @03:32PM (1 child)
https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/society-is-made-of-narrative-realizing-this-is-awakening-from-the-matrix-787c7e2539ae [medium.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 18 2020, @01:15AM
Garbage -- not worth the read.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Wednesday June 17 2020, @06:54PM (4 children)
That's certainly not how the term is commonly used. As commonly used "Fake News" means "makes me look bad or otherwise exposes my lies"
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @07:41PM (2 children)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news [wikipedia.org]
https://www.prattlibrary.org/research/tools/index.aspx?cat=90&id=4735 [prattlibrary.org]
https://www.statista.com/topics/3251/fake-news/ [statista.com]
And as I said in a different post [soylentnews.org]:
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday June 18 2020, @07:06PM (1 child)
Thing is, I don't recall the term "fake news" ever being used against actual false news broadcasts (except by coincidence). In fact I don't recall ever hearing the term used before Trump started throwing it around - we had other terms for it: "spin", "propaganda", "lies", etc. If it's fake, it's not news.
Look at the history of the Wikipedia page you linked - it was first created in Jan 2017
Even the disambiguation page only has one other reference, to "The Fake News Show", a British comedy that began in February 2017 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news_(disambiguation) )
There have been other similar terms coined around the world, but it seems they are almost always used to deny inconvenient coverage, rather than to actually call out falsified information.
As such, my inclination would be to accept the term as having the primary definition of being a denial of unflattering coverage, rather than anything to do with the actual legitimacy of the news.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 18 2020, @07:37PM
There. FTFY.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2019/10/02/trump-claims-he-invented-the-term-fake-news-an-interview-with-the-guy-who-actually-helped-popularize-it/ [washingtonian.com]
I'm sure there's more documentation out there, but I'm not responsible for disabusing you of your ignorance.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 18 2020, @06:16PM
The kind of stuff Secondary Infektion [zdnet.com] is doing is fake news.
And that sort of stuff is the commonly understood definition of "Fake News," not the targets of blathering from a certain spray-tanned asshole.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @07:51AM
https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/22/covid-19-study-details-benefits-of-treatment-with-remdesivir-and-also-its-limitations/ [statnews.com]
Not understanding HOW this drugs works is kind of dangerous when you claim you know how it works. Hint: it works by prevent virus from replicating. And virus doesn't kill you, a slow cytokine storm kills you. Remdesivir prevents the disease from getting there. The alternative is you filter you blood for excess cytokines.
https://cytosorb-therapy.com/en/ [cytosorb-therapy.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @01:46PM
20%/25% = 80%, which is a 20% reduction in fatality at this stage.
28%/40% = 70%, which is a 30% reduction in fatality at this (worse) stage.
If a thing prevents death, it makes sense that it would have a greater effect on those closer to death. It would be odd if this drug brought the 40% figure under 20%, as this would imply that it did worse for people that were better, but the data makes plenty of sense. The drug helps people avoid death, the closer to death you are the more it improves your chances, but you are still better off not being close to death in the first place.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday June 18 2020, @05:11PM
All I know is that 30 doctors signed a letter to Italian health ministry in April saying let us test cortisone based anti inflammation drugs, they look promising, and the minister did not even reply.
In another case the sister of a guy cured with cortisone and antibiotics complained the guy died of COVID.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Freeman on Tuesday June 16 2020, @08:53PM (2 children)
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/cheap-steroid-may-lower-covid-19-death-rate-but-experts-urge-caution/ [arstechnica.com]
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 4, Insightful) by driverless on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:17AM (1 child)
Also, a 5% improvement isn't "significant" or "a major breakthrough", it's only better than nothing. Shit, I've worked on studies where the margin of error is 3-5%.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Immerman on Wednesday June 17 2020, @06:59PM
Depends on context. It's a 5% improvement overall, but if you just look at your chance of death, going from 25% to 20% is a (25-20)/25 - 20% reduction in your chance of dying. If you're on a ventilator it's even better at (40-28)/40 = a 30% reduction in your chance of death.
Certainly not an earth-shattering improvement that lets us re-evaluate our pandemic response strategies, but certainly a big improvement if you're personally facing a good chance of dying within the next week or two.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @08:58PM (16 children)
Don't these type of steroids generally *weaken* someone's immune system?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Freeman on Tuesday June 16 2020, @09:06PM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30317-2/fulltext [thelancet.com]
So, yes, it inhibits immune responses. Though, may be useful in preventing lung damage. So, definitely not a preventative treatment, but something that might be useful to negate harm as the original post is saying.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @09:30PM (8 children)
That's why you inhale bleach first, to get rid of the problems that your weakened immune system can't handle, or at least that's what I heard from some sort of stable genius.
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by RS3 on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:32AM (7 children)
Bleach treatment only works in orange people. The mechanism isn't clearly understood, but research indicates it's due to the bleach neutralizing the harmful effects of the orange pigment chemicals.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:23PM
Does bleach work for the yellow people [nymag.com] too?
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 18 2020, @04:04AM (5 children)
Why did someone mod me "flamebait"? It was 100% humor. Is that the reward for trying to bring levity?
This is exactly what I hate about this stupid mod system. You try to be a nice guy and you get slapped in the face, and NO idea why.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday June 18 2020, @07:37PM (4 children)
Perhaps, because they took offense at your vague reference to the President of the United States of America? I know it's a tried and true tradition to make fun of the President, but some people are tired of all the Orange haired one kinds of remarks. Also, sarcasm is lost in print.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 18 2020, @08:03PM (2 children)
Thank you, seriously, for taking the time to write. Your explanation makes sense, but I'm struggling to get myself into the game here. When I don't understand someone's post, or just disagree with it, I leave it alone. It has to be pretty bad before I downmod- true troll or flamebait, not just because I don't like it. I guess I have to grow a bigger and meaner ego. I'll just start slinging downmods and see how I feel about it and see if it enhances this site. None for you of course.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday June 18 2020, @08:18PM (1 child)
'eh, I try to be careful with my mod points and correct where I think something's been modded poorly. I also try to make sure I have enough points left, so when I get to the last article and there's an obvious troll, I have points to mod it so. Things seem to have improved greatly from a while ago, though. What with the random junk posting that was happening for a while.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 18 2020, @11:02PM
Yes, agreed on all points. You're one of the good ones. As much as I'd love to live in a libertarian utopia, reality is that there are varying degrees of evil in people and we either need laws and enforcement, or good people will get hurt (depending on your definition of "good").
I should start a journal discussion about the mod system. The recent "meta" discussion brought out some great ideas, including that coders are up to their ears in life so if any, changes won't happen soon.
Disappointment is born of expectations. A saying I say and write occasionally. Much easier said than done. I came here expecting (the problem) a (much?) better environment than slashdot. No need to repeat the whole story and history, right? Well, this place has been much worse than slashdot over the past year+, and by "worse" I mean 1) ton's of AC comments, 2) tons of AC troll, flamebait, and just plain idiocy, 3) flame throwing, 4) ad hominem and general attacking verbiage, 5) mod system abuse, and I'm sure I could list more.
It's sad, for me, because I'd love to have intelligent civil discussions like sometimes happen here. I only want to contribute in a positive way, but I'm very often afraid to post anything (so I usually don't, when I would otherwise). It's sad because there are some truly awesome people here. I think there are a couple of people who don't like me, for reasons beyond my understanding, and downmod me rather than be adult and post a contrarian response. A couple of logged-in people, and a couple of ACs have attacked me using language that indicates they're focused on me- they said so. I have many ideas for mod system reform, and one would be for people to know who modded them and how. As I've posted before, this place has turned into a biker bar brawl. Sad.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday June 18 2020, @08:06PM
PS: I grew weary of all of the Trump bashing and belittling long ago; again, I was just trying to be funny. I absolutely dispute the label "flamebait" for my post. Someday maybe I'll start yet another similar site, but with a radically different mod system (if at all...)
(Score: 5, Informative) by HiThere on Tuesday June 16 2020, @09:56PM
Weaken is a biased term, but it *is* acting to suppress the immune system (not quite the same thing) to minimize a cytokinetic storm. You *can* think of that as weakening the immune system, but that's not quite the right slant on it. Regulating it is better.
That said, you wouldn't want to use this treatment during the early part of the infection, as it would just be dangerous and not helpful. You want it as the immune system starts going into overdrive.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by legont on Tuesday June 16 2020, @10:30PM (3 children)
It's pretty much the same as the infamous "Trump drug". Weakens immune system, used for ages by old folks with arthritis.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:51PM (2 children)
It has not dissimilar effect in that it reduces inflammation. But no, it's not the same at all in terms of what it does and how it acts. It's not the same in terms of risk of cardiac complications or reduction of bone formation.
Your statement is about the same as saying COBOL or Fortran, same thing. Both programming languages, used for ages by old programmers with math needs.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday June 17 2020, @07:52PM (1 child)
Old progeammers, yes.
Cobol for math needs? I'm doubtful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 18 2020, @03:20AM
The number one use for COBOL is financial calculations. You don't get more "math" than that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:46PM
Generally, yes. It interrupts the immune response of inflammation, increases serum sugar levels, and long term may train the body to be weaker to immune response, not to mention interrupts bone formation (osteoporosis). But in a respiratory disease one can be more concerned with inflammation reducing oxygen availability and oxygen transport usually wins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @09:40PM (1 child)
Oceania has completely defeated Eastasia!
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:20AM
Bits of Oceania have mostly defeated Covid19ia, at least so far.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Tuesday June 16 2020, @09:48PM (9 children)
and it appears that it helps stop some of the damage that can happen when the body's immune system goes into overdrive as it tries to fight off coronavirus.
I always get annoyed when writers use the word "overdrive" like this. Overdrive is when an engine goes into a low-speed, lower-power cruise mode with a tall gear, to save fuel while driving at a constant cruising speed. Engines do not work very hard in overdrive. If you want to use a car metaphor, the proper term is "full-throttle".
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @10:15PM (3 children)
Or afterburner. I've heard that nicotine and especially marijuana slow down the infection letting the immune system catch up with the spread. I'm putting that to the test.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @11:28PM (2 children)
Nicotine, marijuana, alcohol, and masterbation slow down infection! And shit posting on SoylentNews! TMB is immortal! Soon, we we be calling him ImmorTMB Joe.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @12:48AM (1 child)
Oh fuck. I stopped drinking long ago.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday June 17 2020, @01:41AM
I guess you picked the wrong week to stop drinking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZyCGws2r08 [youtube.com]
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @10:18PM (2 children)
> low-speed, lower-power cruise mode with a tall gear, to save fuel while driving at a constant cruising speed.
You got this part right.
> Engines do not work very hard in overdrive.
You got this part wrong...depending on the definition of "work hard".
In overdrive (compared to normal high gear) the throttle will be opened wider to produce the same amount of power, to maintain the same car speed. Since the engine is turning slower in overdrive and manifold vacuum is reduced (intake manifold closer to atmospheric pressure), the average cylinder pressure (BMEP - brake mean effective pressure) will be higher in overdrive. Higher cylinder pressures mean the combustion chamber is hotter and (in extreme cases) the chance of detonation/knock is also more likely, connecting rods/bearing loads are higher, etc. Yes, overdrive can be more efficient (less fuel consumed), but it's harder on the moving parts in the engine.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:36AM (1 child)
Higher cylinder pressure yes, larger throttle opening no. Producing the same power at a lower engine speed will almost always* be more efficient and take less air/fuel per unit time.
*There can be extreme cases where the VE or combustion efficiency are just absolute garbage at a certain RPM range. Imagine shifting into top gear while you're in a 15MPH school zone for example.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @04:45PM
Overdrive...the transmission output is turning faster than the engine. A lot of cars and trucks already have a slight overdrive in it's top gear but it's not labeled overdrive.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @05:52AM
That ship has sailed. It's not about cars anymore.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday June 18 2020, @07:17PM
Merriam-Webster, definition 2: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overdrive [merriam-webster.com]
2 : a state of heightened activity
Even where cars are concerned, overdrive is related to the gearing - it has nothing to do with the throttle. You can be idling in overdrive, or you can be full throttle in granny-low dragging a heavy load at a few mph.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by leon_the_cat on Tuesday June 16 2020, @09:58PM (5 children)
watch the share price as someone is getting a brand new platinum ferrari. Then watch it get slowly dismantled and forgotten (the story not the ferrari).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 16 2020, @10:19PM
Average retail price of $46.90 right now and widely available generic. We'll see.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by RS3 on Wednesday June 17 2020, @02:25AM (3 children)
If it was a new drug, yeah. But this is an old cheap one, and I'm very surprised that nobody figured this out sooner. I wonder if anyone's tried good old aspirin.
That said, my experience and observation of the medical world is they're mostly unwilling to try things "off-label". They pretty much diagnose and apply known / standard treatments. I surmise a combination of the legal system and insurance companies have pretty much tied doctors' creative problem-solving hands.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @03:42PM (2 children)
I'll counter your anecdote with other anecdotes. The impression from others (luckily I've had no direct experience, either ways) is that individual doctors are very willing and eager to prescribe things off-label, especially if a patient asks for it. And I guarantee "Big Pharma" would be happy to sell you anything you want, so long as you don't sue them for the consequences.
If you are saying that regulators are not willing to, then yes. (Not that I begrudge them... people are willing to buy and sell snake oil, so having somebody keep an official line is fine.) However, "medical world" as a whole isn't really that much against off-label.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday June 17 2020, @06:09PM (1 child)
Thank you for your observations. The situations I'm referring to are mostly with my (now deceased) elderly parents who were in great shape otherwise (still driving well, etc.), and some other elderly people. Since COVID-19 is generally a much bigger problem for elderly, I think my observations are at least worthy of expressing to maybe help someone who might be fairly naive to medical care mechanisms.
My purpose in taking time and mental effort to write on this SoylentNews blog isn't because I like finger exercise or want to be heard or want to be a "topper" or want wearisome verbal battle. It's to hopefully help just 1 person somewhere. I try to give info that might help someone be more aware of potential problems somewhere.
To your point, I know directly that doctors, PAs, NPs, etc., all want to do as much as they can. But they've expressed directly to me that their hands are tied, esp. in hospital settings. In some of the cases, they kind of hinted that if I could bring the elder to them outside of the hospital, they'd run the tests / give the treatment. In a couple of cases I basically did that- took mom or dad (or aunt or friend's mom) to another facility and got the treatment. It was usually under a multi-hospital medical corporation, and the elder was too sick and considered too fragile to take any risks of "off-label" treatments, and the courses of action were always very by-the-book.
It's a sore subject for me as I consider talking to lawyers. Both parents died of treatable illnesses, but weren't getting timely treatment, let alone the many possible treatments that could have given them more years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @07:54PM
Sorry for your loss. If you can wring value from the broken system, using the tools of the broken system, wring for all you can. If you can't... more condolences.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 17 2020, @11:25AM (1 child)
my take is that if a machine is breathing for you and you maybe got a positif covid test that you're very, very, veeeery close to either being fired thru a chimney or will start pushing up daisies in short time.
in short: robot no good breath for you!
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday June 18 2020, @07:41PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_lung [wikipedia.org]
Fine then:
Still, to the layman, it's called breathing.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"