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Breaking News: Russia Seizes Power in Crimea
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
The clothes have no emperor.
-- C. A. R. Hoare, commenting on ADA.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by pixeldyne on Saturday March 01 2014, @10:49PM
send a sternly worded letter of protest.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday March 01 2014, @11:02PM
It was only a matter of time until Russia decided that the U.S. geopolitical meddling and encroachment towards the East was enough. How Mother Russia handled Syria was a stern warning to the U.S.: Back the fuck off.
While I doubt this will start World War III, recent events have suggested that the U.S. (my beloved country) is rapidly losing its moral authority to act as the World Policeman spouting a bunch of bullshit about freedom and liberty as it implements neo-colonialism abroad and a Stasi-esque police state ashore -- all run by a shadow-government who can tell its own congressmen to fuck off. Instead of staying credible and remaining a shining beacon of liberty, our leadership looked at China and Russia and thought, "Hey, we can do that too!"
Thanks to one of the recent Snowden leaks, the surveillance state has been directly tied to the phrase "false flag" and at home many Americans who have lost everything as a result of 9/11's fallout are starting to question whether all this was, and is, necessary.
I predict that We the People will embrace isolationism as more revelations are brought to light and more and more people reach the breaking point -- assuming they can take action beyond signing meaningless E-petitions and bitching on Facebook and Reddit.
To all the people who will say, "The U.S. has the most powerful military and will crush anybody America Fuck Yeah," No. The mistake was in gutting the middle-class. The people might just have bought into all of it as long as they still had jobs and could keep their houses and fishing boats -- but you got greedy, and now your own people are itchin' to burn and impale your asses with torches and pitchforks.
Whew. Rant Over.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by gallondr00nk on Saturday March 01 2014, @11:51PM
Iraq and Afghanistan really were like Vietnam. It wasn't until the US pounded a few third world militas into the ground in the 80's that it really got over just how badly they'd fucked up there - intervening in a civil war to try and stop a domino effect that was entirely imaginary.
Weren't both the later conflicts about the same thing? About trying to stop an enemy that the US said would destroy it. About complete irrational fear of imaginary or grossly exaggerated enemies?
I remember when the Afghanistan conflict started, and the TV news was showing these sketches of Al-Quaeda compounds in the mountains, with their own power stations and munitions stores, automatic turrets and cannons and secret bunkers built into the mountains. It was like a Bond villain hideout, and everyone seemed to believe it. They said they were based in the mountains to the north.
You know what was there? Some old munitions from the Soviet invasion. No bunkers, no hidden volcano hideouts. Just caves.
There are few things as dangerous as a nation state that believes its own bullshit and delusions. Sadly, I suspect this is true of Russia as well.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by davester666 on Sunday March 02 2014, @02:25AM
Russia similarly rampaged through Afghanistan not that long ago, with similar results...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by NovelUserName on Sunday March 02 2014, @01:51AM
I had a very similar gut response: The US no longer has the moral standing to make constructive objections. Instead any US objection simply appears self serving and acts to antagonize the participants further. As a US citizen the mess we've made for ourselves sickens me.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by M. Baranczak on Sunday March 02 2014, @03:15AM
Forget moral standing, the US has no power to do anything about Ukraine. Trade sanctions wouldn't work, because the US doesn't do that much trading with Russia in the first place. Military action (US or NATO) is right out, because nobody wants to start World War 3. Let's not even talk about the UN.
But still, things could be worse: we could have McCain as president right now. He'd have no good options, just like Obama, but he'd be too stubborn to realize it.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by pixeldyne on Sunday March 02 2014, @04:57AM
It's a shame because when the fit hits the shan like in this situation many Europeans would clamor for U.S. intervention.
What if the Baltic states od Latvia, Lithuania and Eatonia are next? Or perhaps it'll be Poland's turn to be "liberated" by the Russians?
When they came for Chechnya we did nothing, when they came for Georgia, we kept mostly quiet. Well, you know how the rest of this (paraphrased) quote goes.
Oh well, at least we have "peace in our time".
(Score: 1) by quacking duck on Sunday March 02 2014, @05:48AM
I am not exactly a fan of US international politics and policies, but the Libya crisis and to a less extent Syria highlighted the ridiculous hypocrisy in what I'd consider left-wing protesters.
Well FFS WTF did you lot expect when you demanded action to relieve the human suffering being caused by the regime?? If diplomacy and strongly worded letters and sanctions were effective you wouldn't be demanding US "do something" in the first place!
Now, maybe I'm wrong and #1 and #3 is mostly driven by those on the right, but if the left are demanding no interference in foreign affairs whatsoever then they aren't demonstrating the compassion for others that the left typically professes as a trait.
(Score: 1) by citizenr on Sunday March 02 2014, @08:34AM
Thank you, but I DONT want to be "liberated" by US troops.
We have NATO for that in EU.
Sadly, like the second poster already joked, all NATO will do is a stern letter. UN already finished deliberating and decided to do dick about the whole thing.
We need blue helmets on Ukrainian ground _right now_.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Sunday March 02 2014, @01:32PM
Given that Russia is a veto power in the UN, you'll not see any UN action in that matter.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Sunday March 02 2014, @02:39PM
The problem is that Ukraine in 2010 bent over and said "we're your bitch", which kinda makes it harder to protect them - the enemy is already within - and very well established at that.
Maybe it's time to slice the country into the old Kievan Rus territories in the centre, north, and west, from the more Russian-influenced territories in the south east? Support for the various factions (and majority language spoken) divides remarkably well along that line. Guarantee freedom of movement, and a choice of either nationality to those born either side of the line and for one generation.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by DNied on Sunday March 02 2014, @09:39AM
That would fit as the new name for the USA.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @05:17AM
[This comment posted as AC so as to not undo moderation.]
Good to see you here, Ethanol-fueled!
I happen to agree completely. Extra so with this line:
"Thanks to one of the recent Snowden leaks, the surveillance state has been directly tied to the phrase "false flag"..."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @06:58AM
That doesn't work, you know. The only thing posting AC does is eliminate the warning.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Refugee from beyond on Sunday March 02 2014, @08:06AM
That's why you post reply in a separate private window with no cookies.
Instantly better soylentnews: replace background on article and comment titles with #973131.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ivan on Sunday March 02 2014, @03:24AM
1. US and Europe finance radical Ukrainian Nazi antiRussian groups for 20 years.
2. Nazi groups commence Coup d'etat during a wave of legitimate protests (mainly) against government corruption and (less so) for Europe integration.
3. The transition government is formed, it includes known Nazi figures. General prosecutor is Nazi. One of the first laws passed, is to revoke the status of Russian language as official language in Russian-speaking regions. Some Nazi thugs urge to expell Russians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkiSPMpTp_I [youtube.com]
4. US and Europe are quickly to support the new-formed government. No objections to Nazis being parts of it are made.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-and-the-polit ics-of-anti-semitism-west-upholds-neo-nazi-repress ion-of-ukraines-jewish-community/5370790 [globalresearch.ca]
5. Civilian people are being shot dead, stabbed tortured and burned for not being in favor of Nazis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TkAkcMceNg [youtube.com]
6. People in Russian-speaking regions quickly realize: they either revolt, or will be crushed and terrorized for the decades to come. Well-organized Sevastopol (of Crimea) is first to denounce new government and select new local leader. Russian Federation is silent for two days, until it is clearly understood, that Crimean people will fight for the independence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atm0W5wA2y4 [youtube.com]
7. Russia supports Crimea, first verbally, then militarily.
8. Cities of Donetsk, Kharkov, Odessa, Dnipropetrovsk and many more hold large rallies against new government of Ukraine and in support of Sevastopol. Pro-Coup Nazi thugs are being expelled from government buildings, pro-Coup officials stripped of their positions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp0BHGleDMw [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncRMVOL5ZeY [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvoznIsUuc [youtube.com]
9. Ukrainian government urges organized crime groups, Army and Nazi thugs to suppress revolts in Kharkov, Dnipropetrovsk and other cities, also sends troops to fight in Crimea.
10. ???
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @05:27AM
[This comment posted as AC so as to not undo moderation.]
Glad to see a well-referenced counterpoint!
Note to fellow moderators: if the type of site you want is one where certain views, coincidentally unpopular in western M.S.M., are to be suppressed and/or labeled 'Troll', then you're going to lose out on a number of things, including this registered user whose karma is currently maxed out at 50.
(Score: 1) by tibman on Sunday March 02 2014, @07:54AM
It probably had to do with calling west Ukraine a bunch of Nazis. Oh, and also saying that the US and Europe supported Nazis. Because that makes sense.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @08:51AM
Where did you read West Ukraine == Nazis? Or, maybe, it is not in your shill playbook to actually use provided sources?
(Score: 1) by Angry Jesus on Sunday March 02 2014, @10:10AM
Seems to be a post that is all about half-truths. The author's entire premise is to say that everybody in the revolution are nazis. For example, "Civilian people are being shot dead, stabbed tortured and burned for not being in favor of Nazis." and a link to a video clip about some rogue assholes shooting people.
Also, "General prosecutor is Nazi" - Oleh Makhnitsky, the general prosecutor is a member of the nationalist Svoboda party, but being a nationalist does not make someone a nazi.
It sure looks like the nazi thing has been widely overblown - the Svoboda party is only 10% of the population and while I am sure they have some extremists - as a convenient talking point out of Moscow. This wapo article [washingtonpost.com] does a better job of explaining what's going on than any dubiously cited post screaming "nazi, nazi, nazi!"
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @10:43AM
Man, the only way to be in touch with reality is to do your own research. No single article from Western (or Eastern, for that matter) paid and bought media can provide you with truthful view of such complex issue.
It is called propaganda. If you don't do your own research you become a slave to it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Sunday March 02 2014, @12:43PM
He's getting flamed out because he is badly confusing the PR campaign of the moment with the geopolitical realities and long term shifts.
The relevant problem is the Russians lost their empire about a generation ago and are a little butthurt about the whole topic. Meanwhile, for reasons bordering on insanity, as per some Snowden info the USA is getting WAY too involved in the deep internal politics of a border state to the point of near outright intervention. Needless to say the Russians are pissed and rightly so. It would be like the US response if the Russians more or less took over and started attempting to actively control a Canadian political party. The whole foreign policy goal is insane, and we have no input on it or control over it.
So we get a comment all about the leaves of the trees instead of looking at the forest. The PR campaign is currently oriented around appealing to old people and those of a certain religious affiliation by Nazi comparisons. Which looks comical to folks outside those groups, talk about a desperate over-reaching. For comparison, our own neo-con lunatics are further right than the people we're talking about. If anything this situation is "what would happen if moderate neo-cons took over". Admittedly would not be a good situation, but only a lunatic would start making ridiculous claims... worst case scenario is it would look like Utah or something.
The most recent Dan Carlin podcast more or less predicted this outcome. There is also a meta-issue where "the public" is getting tired of the GWOT lies after about a decade, now its time for some new lies, a new PR campaign. A second cold war would be nearly ideal. The Dan Carlin prediction is the next step will be thawing relations between Russia and China, and chilling relations between China and the USA. This will not be entirely discouraged by the USA... so we've sold China lots of our debt, now just stiffing an ally would not be cool, but once they're the axis of evil, sure, default on their worthless bonds. Meanwhile a lot of mfgr jobs come back to a USA deep in the 2nd great depression, AND the military industrial complex gets new orders for un-needed jet airplanes and tanks and stuff. The Chinese don't much care because they already know our debt is worthless but need to save face and having their "enemy" default saves face for them pretty well. The Russians are happy because the Chinese would love to trade raw resources (oil, all of freaking siberia, etc) for some mfgr'd goods and the like. I'm not sure who, if anyone, doesn't want this scenario?
As Carlin said, something along the lines of "only Nixon could go to China" is playing out in the mid 2010s as "only Putin could go to China". So enjoy cheap Chinese garbage at walmart while you can, its going away very soon.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by AsteroidMining on Sunday March 02 2014, @05:52PM
Yeah, if you read the US press, you won't see too many mentions of the Svoboda party [salon.com], much less the Ukrainische Hilfspolizei and the Hiwi's and connections both of these groups had with the the Bandera OUN and, thus, with the current-day Svobodites.
There is a complicated history here. We in the States ignore it at our peril.