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Breaking News: Russia Seizes Power in Crimea
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Either I'm dead or my watch has stopped.
-- Groucho Marx's last words
(Score: 4, Informative) by Angry Jesus on Sunday March 02 2014, @01:51AM
As far as I can tell, none of those are officially issued statements by "the leaders of Maidan" they are just people spouting off on a website.
There will always be assholes willing to say outrageous things online (and off) and taking a failure to censor as an endorsement (especially in the middle of all the tumult and distraction of a revolution) does not seem reasonable.
As for Mikhalchishin and Svoboda, seems like they've got problems but are far from the whole picture. [khpg.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by tftp on Sunday March 02 2014, @02:28AM
As far as I can tell, none of those are officially issued statements by "the leaders of Maidan" they are just people spouting off on a website.
That's what German Jews told each other in 1930s ... The "official" documents on the Final Solution [wikipedia.org] were not discovered until 1947. Waiting for the official memo did no good then, and it will do no good now. The only memo one gets is in form of the arrest warrant.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Angry Jesus on Sunday March 02 2014, @02:44AM
I think that's a disingenuous argument. Given the number of people who will surely be killed in a conflict with Russia it seems out of proportion. You might as well argue that the existence of stormfront or the comments section on youtube or that of any american newspaper's website proves the US is secretly planning on conducting pogroms too.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by tftp on Sunday March 02 2014, @03:10AM
Well, it's hard to predict the future. The best you can do is to look into history and learn from that. If someone tells you that your house is on fire, it's a pretty serious concern. You are not likely to debate the personality of the messenger, or to calculate the chances that he may be mistaken. You act immediately. The same applies to the danger of nazism. The problem is that this nationalist thinking is endemic in Western Ukraine. Bandera did not rise out of nowhere. He had followers then, and he has followers now. His portraits are on display in many cities, and many forums are filled with his ideology. Are the fears overblown? Let's hope so.
With regard to "the number of people who will surely be killed in a conflict with Russia," my prediction is that nobody will be killed, and the whole conflict amounts to players placing their figures into cells into squares of a chess board. Chess figures don't shoot at each other, and don't get damaged. If a stronger figure shows up and makes a move, the defeated figure yields and steps away, to the outside of the board.
The reason why I think this will be the case is simply because there is nothing to fight for. The territorial divide occurs, and has already occurred, in hearts and minds of the population. The troops can only follow that, as visible markers. There is nobody to shoot, and there is nothing to win if you do shoot. Can you think of any other scenario? If so, please provide your own scenario, with specifics of who exactly would be fighting on one side and on another. IMO, at this point the only fighting force in Ukraine is Maidan's armed groups. The Ukrainian army clearly distanced itself from politics, which seems to be a smart choice. The head of the army was kicked out as one of last political acts of Yanukovich. The police had been spat upon by Ukrainian government, so they won't fight for it either. Who then remains in Russian-speaking provinces who'd like to shoot?
(Score: 2) by Angry Jesus on Sunday March 02 2014, @09:30AM
If someone tells you that your house is on fire, it's a pretty serious concern. You are not likely to debate the personality of the messenger, or to calculate the chances that he may be mistaken. You act immediately. The same applies to the danger of nazism.
I think that analogy is just outright nuts. It's the kind of thing that betrays a point of view that is not susceptible to reason or logic.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by WildWombat on Sunday March 02 2014, @02:55AM
"That's what German Jews told each other in 1930s ... The "official" documents on the Final Solution were not discovered until 1947. Waiting for the official memo did no good then, and it will do no good now. The only memo one gets is in form of the arrest warrant."
I think its now official:
tftp = Russia's Cold Fjord
Cheers,
-WW
(Score: 2) by M. Baranczak on Sunday March 02 2014, @03:02AM
Thank goodness! Soylent News is now complete.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @07:04AM
I couldn't disagree more, and I think we all know what an ad hominem [wikipedia.org] attack is.