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SoylentNews is people

posted by mattie_p on Sunday March 02 2014, @08:45AM   Printer-friendly
from the we-promised-open-access dept.

Greetings, Soylentils. First of all, I want to thank you, the community, for the outpouring of support during these past few weeks. The participation has been amazing, and I'd like to personally thank each and every one of you for your help in a successful launch so far. Unfortunately, I can't thank every one of you individually. As of this writing, there are over 3500 registered users!

Now, we promised to be transparent, and we intend to deliver. Our first (and right now, only) all-hands staff meeting is at 1800 UTC on 2 March, and will be held on our IRC channels.

The staff will be holding the meeting on #Staff at irc.soylentnews.org. Only staff will be able to log into and speak on that channel. However, our IRC folks will be re-broadcasting this on the public channel, #Soylent. If you aren't familiar with IRC, please review Landon's recent post (we have a web client available as well). Many of our staff members will be monitoring both channels, and we will try to have the opportunity for questions. Conducting this meeting will be one of many learning experiences for us, so feel free to pipe up and say your piece.

Items on the agenda include a vision statement from our founder, an overview of staff organization from me(draft available here), general status update from each group, as well as proposals for future development. You may notice some missing names in the org chart. Please contact us at suggestions @ soylentnews dot. org if you are interested in volunteering or working here.

As always, thanks for being a part of this great community!

~mattie_p, general manager

 
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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Marand on Sunday March 02 2014, @09:16AM

    by Marand (1081) on Sunday March 02 2014, @09:16AM (#9471) Journal

    Out of curiosity, why google docs for the staff organisation overview? You have this shiny website here that, I would assume, is capable of hosting files of various types including PDF and HTML as needed. It's not like you're expecting collaborative editing of the file with the entire community, so what reason is there to link to the Google Docs version?

    Maybe I'm in the minority and nobody else cares, but it just seems a bit off to ditch all the web2.0 "I need javascript to scratch my ass" design with the SN site itself, but then expect everybody to allow every bloody JS script google wants to load just to view a simple list.

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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by cloying on Sunday March 02 2014, @11:07AM

    by cloying (91) on Sunday March 02 2014, @11:07AM (#9507)

    Yes, it does seem odd. There is an uncomfortable mix of old and safe, with new and slack. Why use something like irc, and then use Google docs? set up a forum and then ask us to submit trite videos to YouTube? I just did a twatter search for 'soylent news' and there exists a pointless stream of headlines. Lovely

    Have we escaped beta to enter another socially networked fiasco?

    I would love to see this site work, but one of its reasons for it needing to exist was, our at least I thought it was, to avoid the use of ludicrous technologies and dependencies the rest of the internet works are happily falling in bed with. I certainly don't ever want to be part of this huge social experiment of popularity wars and privacy stupidity.

    I can't make 'witnessing' the "staff meeting" due to living in a far off time zone. Perhaps the issues above would be something I would like to see discussed and decided upon in my absence, and before the site commits too much to operating in this way.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Sunday March 02 2014, @12:41PM

      by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday March 02 2014, @12:41PM (#9557) Journal

      At least, up to now, the site itself does not depend in any way on third-party sites. Which I consider a big advantage. Especially today where most sites include stuff, especially JavaScript, from a dozen other sites.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by cloying on Sunday March 02 2014, @12:55PM

        by cloying (91) on Sunday March 02 2014, @12:55PM (#9565)

        Yes, but dependencies are being created. Twitter, google docs, youtube... In my view we should never need or even suggest these for any part of the site content or management.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by jt on Sunday March 02 2014, @01:09PM

          by jt (2890) on Sunday March 02 2014, @01:09PM (#9575)

          Personally, I don't want SN to be dependent on other third-party services. What the proprietary world giveth, the proprietary world taketh away etc. However, maybe this will be useful when getting things kicked off, provided there is a clear plan on how these dependencies will be dropped in the near future.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @07:42PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @07:42PM (#9711)

            Which is EXACTLY why every else falls in line too -- it's just too "convenient" to take use of these freely available "cloud" solutions, just waiting to make life easier, even for high order tech geeks.

            "Oh we'll just use it while we kick things off."

            Sure. Except it will ALWAYS be more convenient in the Google / Apple / MS gardens.

            This is why no one really uses open source chat networks (yeah sure IRC/XMPP), why no one uses self-hosted Docs equivalents, why no one seriously relies on OpenStreetMap when GMaps or MS Maps or Garmin et al. are available, why no one uses self-hosted videos or photos or social networking. (All for varying definitions of "no one", of course.)

            Laporte used Skype temporarily when setting up his million dollar TWiT network, including the open source show "FLOSS Weekly". 5 years later he's still using Skype, with no real end in sight. He's talking about moving to a different Microsoft communications server next... seriously.

            I am not surprised Soylent would stoop to using Docs for sharing or Youtube for video... but I am disappointed. It's still hard to avoid the free candy.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Sunday March 02 2014, @01:26PM

          by maxwell demon (1608) on Sunday March 02 2014, @01:26PM (#9581) Journal

          Twitter is an advertising channel, not a dependency. I don't think you lose out anything by not using twitter (I can't be sure, of course, because I don't use it, but AFAIU it only broadcasts the story titles.

          Also YouTube is not essential to the site (although it excludes everyone not willing to get a Google account from competing in that competition, but then, I also see that competition more of an advertising campaign, and while I don't really like that competition, the fact that it's done on YouTube is my least concern here.

          Use of Google Docs for documents central to the development is already a different level. Is there a reason why that could not have been done on the (already existing!) SoylentNews wiki?

          --
          The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @02:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @02:41PM (#9614)

      Why use something like irc, and then use Google docs? set up a forum and then ask us to submit trite videos to YouTube? I just did a twatter search for 'soylent news' and there exists a pointless stream of headlines. Lovely

      this. I agree, what seemed to be starting off quite well has turned into a complete and utter mess.

    • (Score: 2) by Open4D on Sunday March 02 2014, @06:26PM

      by Open4D (371) on Sunday March 02 2014, @06:26PM (#9694) Journal

      I just did a twatter search for 'soylent news' and there exists a pointless stream of headlines. Lovely

      Pointless? Except for Twitter users who have an interest in SN, and prefer to subscribe that way [twitter.com] rather than using RSS [soylentnews.org]?

      And it seems like a sensible & cheap marketing strategy too. If a geek 're-tweets' one of these stories to his/her followers, SN may get some new users as a result - with no proselytizing needed.

      • (Score: 1) by cloying on Sunday March 02 2014, @10:40PM

        by cloying (91) on Sunday March 02 2014, @10:40PM (#9792)

        Retweet Marketing new users like subscribe follow

        All of that can fuck right off.

        • (Score: 2) by Open4D on Monday March 03 2014, @06:46AM

          by Open4D (371) on Monday March 03 2014, @06:46AM (#9929) Journal

          The old site provided RSS. It was just one of several RSS subscriptions I had, which was nice because it didn't require that I gave it any special attention - and yet I still probably saw the stories sooner than I would have otherwise. I almost never visited the front page; I always just went direct to the stories that interested me.

          Get off my lawn?

          • (Score: 1) by cloying on Monday March 03 2014, @09:08AM

            by cloying (91) on Monday March 03 2014, @09:08AM (#9957)

            Get off my lawn?

            I probably laid that lawn when you were a kid...

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @11:41AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 02 2014, @11:41AM (#9527)

    I for one do care. Don't do google because then google will do you.

    For collaborative editing, check out Gobby or Etherpad. (naturally free software)

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by martyb on Sunday March 02 2014, @04:10PM

    by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 02 2014, @04:10PM (#9634) Journal

    Marand (1081) wrote:

    Out of curiosity, why google docs for the staff organisation overview? You have this shiny website here that, I would assume, is capable of hosting files of various types including PDF and HTML as needed. It's not like you're expecting collaborative editing of the file with the entire community, so what reason is there to link to the Google Docs version?

    I'm of two minds on this.

    1. I strongly dislike having to access external resources to view community-developed content.
    2. There's a whole rat's nest of potential problems pertaining to how to maintain and organize these resources. Imagine a ten years from now and what might exist in a shared location.

    A possibility: I don't know if the slashcode can support it, but maybe the easiest work-around would be to allow a less-restrictive subset of HTML in a *story*? Comment submissions would continue to be restricted to a subset of HTML.

    --
    Wit is intellect, dancing.
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by TheloniousToady on Sunday March 02 2014, @04:54PM

    by TheloniousToady (820) on Sunday March 02 2014, @04:54PM (#9652)

    My guess is that this is purely a temporary expedient. If I were them, I'd be looking for the fastest and easiest way to set up a mechanism to collaborate on documents, and Google Docs may be just that. Personally, I'm glad they're focusing technical efforts on the site itself for now. As Tim Peters said, "Practicality beats purity."

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by mrcoolbp on Sunday March 02 2014, @05:14PM

      by mrcoolbp (68) <mrcoolbp@soylentnews.org> on Sunday March 02 2014, @05:14PM (#9664) Homepage

      I couldn't have said it better myself. However, the team values this sort of feedback and of course the goal is to use open-source, self-hosted things wherever possible in the future.

      Also as to the fragmentation comments, this is a known inconvenience, part of the reason for this meeting in the first place as I understand.

      Please continue to voice these concerns, as it is what contributes to the ongoing evolution of SoylentNews. Remember, this site is in it's infancy, and the direction it's headed seems to be along the lines of the discourse here.

      Please stand by.

      --
      (Score:1^½, Radical)
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Marand on Monday March 03 2014, @02:04AM

        by Marand (1081) on Monday March 03 2014, @02:04AM (#9871) Journal

        If you do continue to use Google Docs for this, at least temporarily -- I understand the reasoning of needing something quick and convenient to get started -- you can just link to the exports, like Open4D did in a reply to me. It should satisfy all but the most anti-Google diehards.

        He used https://docs.google.com/document/d/1doOI5O_VHEUjUd mqmSzwbf6UZwARjbLNqBM9PnkYiLQ/export?format=odt [google.com] as an example, but I tested with replacing the 'odt' with 'pdf' and that worked great as well, albeit without the added comments.

        ---

        Now that I've had a chance to look at the file itself, I'd like to make a suggestion about the advertising/adblockers issue:

        Host your own advertisements!. Keep them in separate areas, sidebars, boxes, etc. like you would an embedded one, but host them yourself. Keep them (mostly) static, and keep the off-site javascript requirements for them as minimal as possible.

        The primary problem with advertising sources, and the reason I block them, is that the current design with external advertisers is that you have to trust the advertisers to run executable code (javascript) on your computer. Not only does that enable the option of doing obnoxious things (animations, audio, etc.), but drive-by malware through adverts is an issue, and it's one that's mitigated by adblockers or strict NoScript settings.

        I don't even run an adblocker, I just keep NoScript fairly strict, and I don't see 99% of advertisements because they all rely on javascript. I have no issue with your site generating revenue through advertising, but if you depend on me allowing advertisers to run code on my machine, I won't be seeing a single one.

        Trust is hard to earn and easy to lose, and the advertisers are far into the negatives on that score. Why should they care if you get malware from their ads? They won't be held accountable and the viewers aren't the ones paying them.

        • (Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Monday March 03 2014, @04:42AM

          by mrcoolbp (68) <mrcoolbp@soylentnews.org> on Monday March 03 2014, @04:42AM (#9906) Homepage

          Thanks for this, I'll add it to my exponentially growing suggestions list. Please feel free to keep them coming in the direction of suggestions at soylentnews dot org.

          --
          (Score:1^½, Radical)
  • (Score: 2) by Open4D on Sunday March 02 2014, @06:13PM

    by Open4D (371) on Sunday March 02 2014, @06:13PM (#9689) Journal

    It's not like you're expecting collaborative editing of the file with the entire community, so what reason is there to link to the Google Docs version?

    Maybe there will be collaborative editing with a portion of the community, and the rest of the community still wants to look at the latest version?

     

    ... expect everybody to allow every bloody JS script google wants to load just to view a simple list.

    Personally I'm too lazy / busy to care much about what JS gets loaded by most of the websites I use. But if I had time for that kind of thing I would probably want to have some kind of sand-box where I could accept all the JS they could throw at me if there was some value to me in it.

    But anyway, can you get to the ODF version without accepting any JS?: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1doOI5O_VHEUjUd mqmSzwbf6UZwARjbLNqBM9PnkYiLQ/export?format=odt [google.com]

                                                                                                        `
    As for those simply criticizing the choice of Google, well, fair enough. Personally I use Google Docs heavily but do intend to look into the possibility of switching away from it as soon as I don't have anything more important to do. Maybe the relevant SN volunteers are in the same position?

    • (Score: 1) by Marand on Monday March 03 2014, @01:42AM

      by Marand (1081) on Monday March 03 2014, @01:42AM (#9860) Journal

      The ODF export works just fine, opened it in LO Writer without having to change anything with NoScript or my cookie blocking. Thanks for pointing it out, hopefully if they continue to use GDocs they notice your post and start using it instead.

      It also solves both of my primary gripes with the setup they used: it lets me use a native app, and I don't have to screw with noscript or open another browser to view it.

  • (Score: 2) by mattie_p on Monday March 03 2014, @03:49PM

    by mattie_p (13) on Monday March 03 2014, @03:49PM (#10086) Journal

    I'll answer as many questions as I can today, and my apologies it took me until this story dropped off the front page to reply.

    I used google docs because I needed to share this proposal with some key people before I went public with it, first to the staff and then to the community.

    Frankly, I was concerned it might look like a hostile takeover if I appointed myself as general manager without checking in with everyone first. I had been doing the work for some time, and many on the staff relied upon my advice and direction, but in no "official" capacity. My idea was to codify what was already in place. But I wasn't the founder, Barrabas, and I wasn't the guy who got slashcode up and running.

    Had I posted it on the wiki, not only would the staff have seen it, the community would have as well. In this case I preferred to keep it close until it was unveiled. And then I didn't have time to transfer to the wiki. Thanks for reading! ~mattie_p