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posted by martyb on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:17PM   Printer-friendly

[Editor's note: This is a follow-on to the story George Floyd Dead - Officers Fired and Charged - Discuss it Here that we ran on June 2, 2020. With 385 comments, it was the 5th-most-discussed story in the history of SoylentNews. All four of the officers involved were fired from the police force and are facing charges for the death.

New body-cam footage has come to light, exclusively on DailyMail.com. The two videos there fill in gaps from the previously-released footage.

In light of the interest when we first ran the story, the continuing "Black Lives Matter" protests, and the information this brings to light, I have decided to run this story.

NOTE: Each news organization has their own "take" on the killing. This coverage from DailyMail.com is no exception; read it with a heaping helping of the proverbial "grain of salt". It has been excerpted here without elision so as to not add any additional "spin".

WARNING: Please be aware the video content is disturbing; viewer discretion is advised. --martyb]


Submitted via IRC for SoyCow1234

Police Bodycam Footage Shows George Floyd Arrest In Detail:

WARNING: DISTURBING CONTENT. DailyMail.com has obtained video from the body cameras of two officers involved in the arrest of George Floyd that ultimately led to his death on May 25 in Minneapolis.

[...] Bodycam footage from two cops accused in the murder of George Floyd is revealed exclusively by DailyMail.com today — and it shows a rookie officer terrifying Floyd by pointing a handgun at his head and another callously picking a pebble from the squad car tire just inches from the dying man and seconds before he draws his last breath.

The tapes show in minute detail how a very distressed Floyd begs 'Mr. Officer, please don't shoot me. Please man,' before the struggle that ended with his death on May 25.

It also shows how belligerent cops cursed at and manhandled the sobbing suspect, ignoring his pleas for compassion.

Floyd resisted as the cops tried to force him into the back of the car, telling them he suffers from claustrophobia and anxiety and how Officer Derek Chauvin knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes, leading to his death, ignoring Floyd's repeated cries of 'I can't breathe.'

Floyd is even heard predicting his own death. 'I'll probably just die this way,' he says.

Transcripts from the videos were released in mid-July but a judge in Minneapolis had ruled the video could only be viewed in the courthouse, meaning few people have had the chance to watch the powerful images.

But the footage has now been leaked to DailyMail.com so the world can finally see the tragedy of Floyd's last minutes as the cops were mindless of Floyd's anguish.

The footage includes more than 18 minutes from Officer Alex Kueng's bodycam and 10 minutes from Officer Thomas Lane. They were the first two cops to arrive on the scene after a complaint that Floyd had attempted to pass a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes at Cup Foods, a store in the Powderhorn Park section of Minneapolis.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by ledow on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:08PM (32 children)

    by ledow (5567) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:08PM (#1031755) Homepage

    Seriously, go live for a damn moment in a civilised country.

    Pulling the gun would literally put officers in jail in many countries - there's absolutely no need for it, right at the start, before the guy even knows there's anyone there.

    And if you can't cope - with 2 and then 4 officers - with someone *resisting*, not attacking or running or anything else, but just resisting, without having to put a knee on their neck then you have no place in a modern police force ANYWHERE.

    He's on the floor, he's in cuffs, you have guns, he's literally zero threat to you.

    To then persist in a hold that most countries have banned for exactly his reason - it kills people, and that's not a cops job - while the guy slowly stops talking and breathing, without doing ANYTHING about it? Yeah, that's manslaughter at best, murder in any reasonable court.

    I live in what keeps getting accused of being a "police state" (the UK), and this would see any officer up before courts on such charges. It's just not acceptable. They have a duty to make sure he's safe, and they can do that without a knee on the neck.

    That the other officers don't SPOT THAT (it's easy to do things in the heat of the moment, we get that), and get him to ease up, change position, or just say "Hey, grab his legs a second" or something to make them move (without being accusatory in a public place)? It means they were complicit.

    They had zero care for their prisoner, and one of them literally killed him when he wasn't a threat and would have survived perfectly fine if not for the officers actions.

    Those actions were done deliberately, and knowingly, and never eased until he was dead, and no care taken to check he was okay.

    It's murder. It's unquestionable. If you don't get that, you don't live in a very civilised society.

    And there was absolutely no justification for it. He was a bit screwy and resistive, but his overall demeanour was actually quite calm. He wasn't lashing out - the police have to deal with a thousand times worse every day, and they can't just crush someone's throat to do that even then.

    From the second I saw the gun, I was cringing for the poor guy.

    In the UK, or just about any other developed country, he'd still be alive because we literally don't allow arrests like that, and the cops would have been suspended and on charges if they'd done that to him.

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  • (Score: 3, Touché) by ledow on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:11PM

    by ledow (5567) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:11PM (#1031758) Homepage

    It's similarly The Daily Mail (so ignore the narrative, it's tabloid trash), but this is how you do it:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5093857/Off-duty-police-officer-arrests-aggressive-driver.html [dailymail.co.uk]

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:52PM

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:52PM (#1031790)

    Pulling the gun would literally put officers in jail in many countries

    As it should.

    there's absolutely no need for it

    I disagree, the officer in question clearly has a small dick - if not physically then mentally, the gun is his confidence-crutch. He should never be allowed on active street duty if he feels the need to threaten deadly force during situations like the one in question, but that's a problem we have in our system: not enough "real men" in the police.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by sjames on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:03PM (1 child)

    by sjames (2882) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:03PM (#1031799) Journal

    Backing your point, during the protests, I saw video of another arrest. The officer similarly placed his knee on the suspect's neck and his partner yelled "MOVE YOUR KNEE". The officer then moved his knee to the suspect's lower back.

    Personally, I find 'resisting arrest' to be a bit overblown. Grab anyone for any reason and try to throw them into the back of a car and they will probably resist to some degree, especially if you're yelling. It's millions of years of evolution in action.

    Floyd was no angel and best evidence suggests he had committed a crime, so arrest was justified. But his crime didn't carry the death penalty. He put up some resistance, and that called for meeting force with force, but he didn't put up anything like lethal resistance and again, the penalty is not death. In no case is summary execution permitted in the U.S.

    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:52AM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:52AM (#1032103)

      In no case is summary execution permitted in the U.S.

      Clearly you've never been to Louisiana - RWB: Resisting While Black, that's all they need.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 1, Troll) by looorg on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:13PM (12 children)

    by looorg (578) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:13PM (#1031807)

    I do live in a civilized European country.

    No they wouldn't. Stop making things up just cause you have an issue with authority and the police.

    Also don't apply UK law enforcement techniques to other nations, it's not the same. Holding a gun at someone for nine minutes is a long time and I would be more afraid of that then being held down. There is way to many things that can happen then, one sudden move on his part and they might have shot him instead. This was way safer in that regard since they didn't know he was going to die on them.

    There is a reason that they restrained him, it's for their safety and for his own safety. Controlling a person is just easiest done at neck level and according to the coroner it's not what actually killed him -- where do you even get this crushed throat idea from? The amount of people that have been subdued in the same fashion is massive and they have not died. That he died from it is a statistical outlier that they could not have accounted for.

    Antsy people, people with mental issues and people on drugs do the craziest things you ever seen sometimes. You control them via force for your safety and their own safety. There is no intent to murder anyone how hard is that to understand?

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:26PM (2 children)

      by bzipitidoo (4388) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:26PM (#1031836) Journal

      For his own safety, you say? Yet somehow he ended up dead, not safe. If the officer didn't have murderous intent, that is at the least incredibly incompetent policing. They already had him restrained. He was cuffed, on the ground, and outnumbered 4 to 1. Police are supposed to know how to restrain someone without doing them unnecessary harm.

      But I think the officer did have murderous intent. Perhaps you don't know that police in America have a long history of racism? That racist groups such as the KKK encourage their members to become police officers, so that they can abuse the power to practice their racism with greater effect? There is even a name for the kind of cop who puts racism ahead of duty, who is a KKK member 1st and a public servant 2nd: ghostskin.

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by looorg on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:40PM (1 child)

        by looorg (578) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:40PM (#1031841)

        They do know and they applied that, his death seems to mostly been attributed to other medical conditions according to the coroner. Which they couldnt know about.

        • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday August 06 2020, @06:23PM

          by acid andy (1683) on Thursday August 06 2020, @06:23PM (#1032385) Homepage Journal

          If someone's repeatedly pleading that they cannot breathe then even if that alone wouldn't directly kill them, it should be obvious that they are undergoing extreme amounts of stress and / or panic which carries a significant risk of death in many individuals. If they didn't know his medical history then they should act cautiously and not assume that he would survive it. Prolonged pressure on the neck was unnecessary, dangerous and wrong.

          --
          If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @04:54AM (8 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 06 2020, @04:54AM (#1032153) Journal

      Controlling a person is just easiest done at neck level and according to the coroner it's not what actually killed him

      Keep in mind conflict of interest. The coroner had strong incentive to be less than truthful with the cause of death. An independent autopsy claims [eonline.com] that Floyd died of asphyxiation. Note from the link that the independent autopsy was released first. They only released the coroner's autopsy in response, hours later. Plenty of time to tailor the message to reduce liability for the death.

      They had four people on the scene, ready to control Floyd. There's no excuse for this alleged "easy" way. And what was the point of holding Floyd to the ground for 9 minutes anyway? They have nothing better to do that night?

      That he died from it is a statistical outlier that they could not have accounted for.

      Unless, of course, they intended to kill him. Kneeling on Floyd's neck for nine minutes is much easier to explain, if they were trying to kill him rather than merely "control" him.

      • (Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday August 06 2020, @12:21PM (7 children)

        by looorg (578) on Thursday August 06 2020, @12:21PM (#1032219)

        Keep in mind conflict of interest. The coroner had strong incentive to be less than truthful with the cause of death. An independent autopsy claims [eonline.com] that Floyd died of asphyxiation. Note from the link that the independent autopsy was released first. They only released the coroner's autopsy in response, hours later. Plenty of time to tailor the message to reduce liability for the death.

        Is this the independent autopsy that was ordered by his family and friends? Doesn't it sort of then fall for the same reasons and conflicts of interest? It's not like they are without an agenda. Just cause they released it first doesn't mean the real autopsy wasn't done and filed. But it's a nice backstory for a conspiracy. So if anything all this "independent" autopsy did was to really muddy the water.

        They had four people on the scene, ready to control Floyd. There's no excuse for this alleged "easy" way. And what was the point of holding Floyd to the ground for 9 minutes anyway? They have nothing better to do that night?

        They could have done other things but it wouldn't have been procedure and the image of the situation would have been just as bad or worse. Then we would have images of 2-4 police officers piling on top of him or holding him down. You would have had the same screams of police brutality and outrage as there would have been images of four officers holding him down to the ground. The same as if they had put pressure on him somewhat lower down, it's not like the neck is the only point, then they would be mad cause the police had their foot on his back -- and he could have died from that to. So there is just no pleasing the crowd, or mob, here really.

        I gather that they where waiting for the ambulance that they had summoned. As noted previously people that get put on the ground usually doesn't want to stay on the ground, certainly not when they are on drugs and agitated like he was.

        Unless, of course, they intended to kill him. Kneeling on Floyd's neck for nine minutes is much easier to explain, if they were trying to kill him rather than merely "control" him.

        While I can't rule that out I'm not a big fan of conspiracies. Unless it can be proven I would dismiss this whole killer-cop-theory. But under normal circumstances he, or anyone, isn't supposed to die from that. They would have had to know all about his underlying medical conditions, his drug abuse etc. So the conspiracy grows.

        If they wanted to kill him one gathers there would have been easier ways to do it, away from the public eye or just when in his agitated and aggressive state they could have created a scenario where they had to use their guns and shot him.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @01:48PM (3 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 06 2020, @01:48PM (#1032253) Journal

          Is this the independent autopsy that was ordered by his family and friends? Doesn't it sort of then fall for the same reasons and conflicts of interest? It's not like they are without an agenda. Just cause they released it first doesn't mean the real autopsy wasn't done and filed. But it's a nice backstory for a conspiracy. So if anything all this "independent" autopsy did was to really muddy the water.

          Or maybe it was the original autopsy that did that. Both autopsies were real autopsies, BTW.

          They could have done other things but it wouldn't have been procedure and the image of the situation would have been just as bad or worse.

          It wasn't procedure in the first place. What happened to the procedure of handcuff Floyd, stuff him in the back of a cruiser, and then deliver him to a local police precinct for processing.

          I gather that they where waiting for the ambulance that they had summoned. As noted previously people that get put on the ground usually doesn't want to stay on the ground, certainly not when they are on drugs and agitated like he was.

          He was dead when the ambulance arrived, not agitated. Something is wrong with your narrative.

          While I can't rule that out I'm not a big fan of conspiracies. Unless it can be proven I would dismiss this whole killer-cop-theory. But under normal circumstances he, or anyone, isn't supposed to die from that. They would have had to know all about his underlying medical conditions, his drug abuse etc. So the conspiracy grows.

          Unless, of course, Floyd was supposed to die from that. Then it doesn't matter if he had underlying medical conditions or not before dying of asphyxiation. There is this unwarranted assumption that these were normal conditions.

          If they wanted to kill him one gathers there would have been easier ways to do it, away from the public eye or just when in his agitated and aggressive state they could have created a scenario where they had to use their guns and shot him.

          In front of video cameras?

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by looorg on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:21PM (1 child)

            by looorg (578) on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:21PM (#1032262)

            Or maybe it was the original autopsy that did that. Both autopsies were real autopsies, BTW.

            I'm not saying their autopsy wasn't real. I'm saying it's not the official autopsy, which is really the only one that matters. It's not a first to leak/release that becomes the first or the official one. I note here that you skate on the issue of that the family (or independent) autopsy might also be flawed. So it's only the one made for the police that is bad and manipulated to suit some agenda?

            It wasn't procedure in the first place. What happened to the procedure of handcuff Floyd, stuff him in the back of a cruiser, and then deliver him to a local police precinct for processing.

            Since he complained about breathing problems they had to summon an ambulance. So they had to wait for that. If he had just said nothing, been cuffed, said nothing again when put in the police car and being taken to the station he would most likely still be alive and this wouldn't have been an issue at all. They didn't summon the ambulance cause they liked to, or is this part of your conspiracy to -- summon the ambulance to give them time to slowly asphyxiate him? They did summon it cause he complained about health issues. So they did indeed follow procedure. Just cause you summon the ambulance doesn't mean it instantly teleports onto the scene. This isn't sci-fi. While waiting for it to arrive they have to control him and the scene. Nothing weird with that.

            There is this unwarranted assumption that these were normal conditions.

            Unless you can prove it wasn't then yes it was normal circumstances and conditions. But once again you believe there is some kind of conspiracy to murder him. The evidence for that seems thin at best. If they knew each other why didn't they call each other by name? If they (whomever they are in your conspiracy) had wanted him to die he could have just waited and let all the fentanyl take him. But apparently there was some kind of rush to murder him on the spot, for some unknown reason.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 07 2020, @05:01AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 07 2020, @05:01AM (#1032745) Journal

              So they had to wait for that.

              They didn't have to kill Floyd while they were waiting. It's not standard procedure to hope your perp doesn't have a medical condition after calling an ambulance for it. If it was serious enough a concern to disrupt the arrest procedures to wait for an ambulance, it was a serious enough concern to modify how they controlled Floyd while they waited for that ambulance. Nor as repeatedly has been noted was that "control" any sort of proper procedure.

              Chauvin will likely be facing a decade or more in jail and he will deserve that for callous disregard for human life.

              Unless you can prove it wasn't then yes it was normal circumstances and conditions.

              The obvious rebuttal is that the death of Floyd proves circumstances and conditions were abnormal. It's possible for that abnormality to occur in a way that absolves involved police officers. But that's not the case here. We have

              If they knew each other why didn't they call each other by name?

              That is quite the rub, isn't it? My scenario would explain why. Because if they showed that they knew each other - in front of a video phone, then Chauvin and the other officers on the scene might get caught.

              You clearly can't think about this, instead making dumbass assertions about procedure, "control", and normality, so I think we're about at the end of this discussion. To summarize my side, Chauvin killed a man which he could have easily saved merely by changing how he pinned Floyd to the ground. He wasn't following procedure with this dangerous hold. And there's been a vast amount of excuse making and victim-blaming - speaking of Floyd's alleged medical conditions, drug use, and mental state (the blanket excuse of "excited delirium"). Even in absence of any proof of intent to kill, we still have second degree murder.

              But as I repeatedly point out, a reasonable explanation for Chauvin's actions is that he intended to kill Floyd, because Floyd was a dangerous loose cannon.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:29PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:29PM (#1032350)

            Something is wrong with your narrative.

            He hasn't seen the video. Most probably because he is afraid he will be proven wrong, 100% because his political affiliations require him to disagree with facts.

            To expand, I not commenting on politics but rather how cults work. His behavior is pretty much how people are suckered into being a scientologist.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:08PM (2 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:08PM (#1032257) Journal
          To continue on my previous post, there's a long stretch of not following procedure from the original killing of Floyd through to the delayed booking the offending officers for second/third degree murder and accessories to such. Yet you keep insisting on presenting this as if it were standard procedure rather than a glaring disregard for procedure and human life.

          Similarly, "underlying medical conditions" ignores that a lot of people, perhaps even most people, have them. Genuine procedure would already take that into account rather than assume everyone is in perfect health.

          On a final point, the ambulance arrived six minutes [nypost.com] after it was called. Allegedly, Floyd was still breathing at the time - which I admit casts strong doubt on a first degree murder case. Given how fast they hustled him to the hospital, there wouldn't have been much time to conspire to cover it up.

          That same link observes this:

          Chauvin had been the subject of 10 prior conduct complaints over his 19 years on the force but had never faced disciplinary action.

          What's the procedure for someone who receives 10 prior conduct complaints, hmmm? Given how blatantly Chauvin killed Floyd, it sounds like Chauvin wasn't expecting disciplinary action any time soon, no matter what he did.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by looorg on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:31PM (1 child)

            by looorg (578) on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:31PM (#1032268)

            Chauvin had been the subject of 10 prior conduct complaints over his 19 years on the force but had never faced disciplinary action.

            What's the procedure for someone who receives 10 prior conduct complaints, hmmm? Given how blatantly Chauvin killed Floyd, it sounds like Chauvin wasn't expecting disciplinary action any time soon, no matter what he did.

            A complaint is not the same thing as something wrong actually happened or took place. It's not uncommon for people to file complaints against officers just cause they can or they somehow feel slighted about something in regards to their arrests. That is not to say that some of the complaints can't be true. But if it's over a 19 year period getting a complaint every other year isn't that much. Over that time period they would also have been investigated and since he never faced any disciplinary actions those complaints were considered to be unfounded. Not necessarily evidence of a coverup of any kind.

            A lot of the things that happened after the incident seem to be somewhat odd. I don't think anything at the scene was out of order tho. That they change the charges afterwards could just be a matter of new information being available. It is not exactly unheard of or something that doesn't happen in other cases to.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 07 2020, @04:10AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 07 2020, @04:10AM (#1032708) Journal
              There seems [startribune.com] to be a real problem here.

              In Minneapolis, the state’s largest police force, only about 3% of misconduct complaints result in discipline. That number strikes civilian watchdogs and academics alike as low for a department of nearly 850 sworn officers. Comparisons are difficult, however, because there is no central repository for tracking police misconduct in the United States, and every agency counts things differently, said Susan Hutson, president of the National Association for Civilian Oversight of Law Enforcement.

              Two departments under federal consent decrees show very different results. In Seattle, roughly 20% of citizen and internal misconduct complaints combined result in discipline. In New Orleans, 14% of outside civilian complaints were sustained with discipline in 2018, while 53% of internal complaints were sustained with discipline.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:00PM (5 children)

    by Grishnakh (2831) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:00PM (#1031819)

    It's murder. It's unquestionable. If you don't get that, you don't live in a very civilised society.

    This is the part Americans just can't admit to themselves: we don't live in a very civilized society. It's really much more akin to Brazil or Russia or Mexico.

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:13PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:13PM (#1031824)

      Apparently in democrat states and cities it's uncivilized.

      In my state, it's very much on par with anywhere in Europe. Lots of guns too. Low crime. etc.

      I am not sure what I need to admit to for something happening in other parts of the country.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 07 2020, @03:20AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 07 2020, @03:20AM (#1032682)

        Mmhmmm, your crimes are just domestic abuse and hate crimes that go unreported since minorities are more terrified of the police than the racist neighbors next door. Sad that some Americans are so completely out of touch with anything beyond their personal bubble.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:24PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:24PM (#1031835)

      Says the guy who shares an alias with a Scandinavian murderer/arsonist/white supremacist black metal musician.

      America is just so uncivilized.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @10:05PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @10:05PM (#1031986)

        Given his username I was sure he was one of those aces you tried to shoot down in every Wing Commander Game from 1 to IV.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:02PM (#1032332)

        You never read LotR? Grishnakh is one of my favorite unique orcs in Angband.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:16PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:16PM (#1031826)

    In those countries, the possession of firearms is strictly regulated leading to the police not needing to pull guns on suspects this early.The reality is that in the US, most felony arrest warrants are served at traffic stops and the cops doing the stop have limited visibility of what's going on in the car.

    There's nothing inherently wrong with what happened prior to him being removed from his car. It's after he was removed from his car that led to the death and subsequent charges. Realistically though, he could have lessened the likelihood of being removed from his car had he just followed the lawful orders he had been given. I've seen the bodycam video from before he was removed and he was definitely not cooperating with the orders he was given. But, you'll see black people lying about that based upon the same video that shows him arguing and refusing to comply.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by darkfeline on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:42PM (7 children)

    by darkfeline (1030) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:42PM (#1031878) Homepage

    >He's on the floor, he's in cuffs, you have guns, he's literally zero threat to you.

    This was a 6'6" ~222 pound dude and a standout athlete. It took four cops just to attempt to put him in the police car. He was clearly agitated, under the effects of at least one substance, and physically resisting. He was exhibiting symptoms of excited delirium, and everything the officers did was according to protocol to protect both themselves, George, and bystanders.

    https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911 [medium.com]

    If you think putting a guy on the floor with cuffs and handguns will protect you, I hope you'll never be anywhere near a situation where you'd learn how wrong you are.

    --
    Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:54PM (6 children)

      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:54PM (#1031977)

      Just so you're aware, "excited delirium" is not an actual medical condition. It is something that is used by the police and their apologists to explain away deaths in custody.

      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday August 06 2020, @12:46AM (1 child)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday August 06 2020, @12:46AM (#1032055) Journal

        "Excited delirium" is to the 21st century what "drapetomania" was to the early and mid 19th.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday August 06 2020, @01:00AM

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Thursday August 06 2020, @01:00AM (#1032062)

          I had to look up drapetomania, and noted that: "Cartwright's article was widely mocked and satirized in the northern United States." which is good.

          "Excited delirium" is, as you noted almost exactly the same.

      • (Score: 2) by darkfeline on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:34AM (3 children)

        by darkfeline (1030) on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:34AM (#1032125) Homepage

        No shit, excited delirium is a set of symptoms, much like how vomiting isn't a medical condition but rather a symptom for a medical condition. In this case, excited delirium was a symptom for extreme drug overdose.

        Call it whatever you want, but erratic drug-induced behavior poses a real and serious threat to everyone involved. "Excited delirium" (in scare quotes just for you) is an attempt to standardize the diagnosis.

        Also, keep in mind that EMTs and police don't have the luxury of treating specific drug overdoses or mental conditions from the comfort of a medical facility. When you're in the field and there's a person who is potentially a threat to themselves and others, you solve that problem first and then get the guy/girl to a hospital ASAP. That problem we have decided to call "Excited delirium". We can call it "happy limb flinging dance" if that pleases you.

        I see three options here:

        1. Allow cops free reign whenever people behave erratically, letting the definition of "erratic" be fully subjective.
        2. Define a rubric for "excited delirium" state, for which cops should act to restrain the people and minimize damage (we are here).
        3. Force cops to treat people behaving erratically like normal people, and shrug if it results in collateral damage (alternatively, blame the cops for "not handling it correctly" because cops have the requisite medical training to do so, obviously). It sounds like you're here.

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        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:30AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:30AM (#1032157)

          I see three options here:

          1. Allow cops free reign whenever people behave erratically, letting the definition of "erratic" be fully subjective.
          2. Define a rubric for "excited delirium" state, for which cops should act to restrain the people and minimize damage (we are here).
          3. Force cops to treat people behaving erratically like normal people, and shrug if it results in collateral damage (alternatively, blame the cops for "not handling it correctly" because cops have the requisite medical training to do so, obviously). It sounds like you're here.

          There is another option:

          4. Defund the police to eliminate racism and crime once and for all.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:26PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:26PM (#1032280)

          How does any of that imply the correct way to handle it is to prevent the suspect from breathing? "Happy limb flinging dance" my arse. The apologetics keep getting more and more ridiculous.

          #4 defund the police keeps coming out as the best alternative.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 07 2020, @05:09AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday August 07 2020, @05:09AM (#1032755) Journal

          excited delirium is a set of symptoms

          As Azuma Hazuki noted, drapetomania also is a set of symptoms.

          When you're in the field and there's a person who is potentially a threat to themselves and others, you solve that problem first

          By killing Floyd. The problem wasn't being solved first.