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posted by martyb on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:17PM   Printer-friendly

[Editor's note: This is a follow-on to the story George Floyd Dead - Officers Fired and Charged - Discuss it Here that we ran on June 2, 2020. With 385 comments, it was the 5th-most-discussed story in the history of SoylentNews. All four of the officers involved were fired from the police force and are facing charges for the death.

New body-cam footage has come to light, exclusively on DailyMail.com. The two videos there fill in gaps from the previously-released footage.

In light of the interest when we first ran the story, the continuing "Black Lives Matter" protests, and the information this brings to light, I have decided to run this story.

NOTE: Each news organization has their own "take" on the killing. This coverage from DailyMail.com is no exception; read it with a heaping helping of the proverbial "grain of salt". It has been excerpted here without elision so as to not add any additional "spin".

WARNING: Please be aware the video content is disturbing; viewer discretion is advised. --martyb]


Submitted via IRC for SoyCow1234

Police Bodycam Footage Shows George Floyd Arrest In Detail:

WARNING: DISTURBING CONTENT. DailyMail.com has obtained video from the body cameras of two officers involved in the arrest of George Floyd that ultimately led to his death on May 25 in Minneapolis.

[...] Bodycam footage from two cops accused in the murder of George Floyd is revealed exclusively by DailyMail.com today — and it shows a rookie officer terrifying Floyd by pointing a handgun at his head and another callously picking a pebble from the squad car tire just inches from the dying man and seconds before he draws his last breath.

The tapes show in minute detail how a very distressed Floyd begs 'Mr. Officer, please don't shoot me. Please man,' before the struggle that ended with his death on May 25.

It also shows how belligerent cops cursed at and manhandled the sobbing suspect, ignoring his pleas for compassion.

Floyd resisted as the cops tried to force him into the back of the car, telling them he suffers from claustrophobia and anxiety and how Officer Derek Chauvin knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes, leading to his death, ignoring Floyd's repeated cries of 'I can't breathe.'

Floyd is even heard predicting his own death. 'I'll probably just die this way,' he says.

Transcripts from the videos were released in mid-July but a judge in Minneapolis had ruled the video could only be viewed in the courthouse, meaning few people have had the chance to watch the powerful images.

But the footage has now been leaked to DailyMail.com so the world can finally see the tragedy of Floyd's last minutes as the cops were mindless of Floyd's anguish.

The footage includes more than 18 minutes from Officer Alex Kueng's bodycam and 10 minutes from Officer Thomas Lane. They were the first two cops to arrive on the scene after a complaint that Floyd had attempted to pass a fake $20 bill to buy cigarettes at Cup Foods, a store in the Powderhorn Park section of Minneapolis.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:27PM (16 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:27PM (#1031720) Journal

    There was no excuse to remain kneeling on a man's neck for almost ten minutes. None.

    I wasn't aware of the claustrophobia bit. And, anxiety. So, Floyd had problems coping with life. Being arrested and thrown into a cruiser aggravated all of that. Well, we all know that cops aren't trained to deal with that sort of stuff. I can give the cops a pass, up to a point. Kneeling on a man's neck for all of that time? I can't pass it, I can't forgive it. Multiple people asked the officers to check Floyd's pulse, at least one person repeatedly. The bastard just didn't care if Floyd was breathing.

    They may not convict him of murder, but at the VERY least, I see gross dereliction.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:43PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:43PM (#1031732)

      I'd go a bit further than you do.

      Regardless of any other considerations, Floyd was fully subdued and restrained *before* Chauvin placed his knee on Floyd's neck.

      What's more, it takes a long time for someone to die like that. As such, Chauvin likely had six or seven minutes before permanent injury/death was certain.

      As such, while we can't *know* what was in Chauvin's mind, he had every opportunity to safely (for himself, his colleagues and the general public) stop kneeling on Floyd's neck. He *chose* (for whatever reasons) not to do so, despite being repeatedly informed by his own senses, Floyd and onlookers that Floyd was in serious distress, and that serious injury/death was likely.

      IANAL, but that loudly argues for a second degree murder [mn.gov] charge:

      (1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation;

      In fact, upon watching the original videos, I was quite shaken and remarked to myself that I'd just seen a murder. And it was.

      Regardless of any other considerations, making the *conscious* decision to continue to cause harm to Floyd despite the fact that he posed no threat to *anyone*, makes Chauvin not only severely unsuited for police work, but argues strongly for a very long prison sentence. I know I don't want people like that walking around free.

    • (Score: 2) by epitaxial on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:36PM (5 children)

      by epitaxial (3165) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:36PM (#1031772)

      He had anxiety from being shot by the police previously.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:49PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:49PM (#1031814)

        and being high on drugs.
        and being arrested for crimes.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by epitaxial on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:33PM (3 children)

          by epitaxial (3165) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:33PM (#1031839)

          I'm a bit confused on which of those calls for a death sentence and why the police were tasked with it.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:05PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:05PM (#1031862)

            accident is not a death sentence.

            drugs and being arrested for crime added to his anxiety.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @08:19PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @08:19PM (#1031925)

              You sound like the type of person whose wife has "accidents" a lot.

              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @08:30PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @08:30PM (#1031934)

                What do you call a woman with 2 black eyes? Bitch learned her lesson.
                What do you call a woman with 1 black eye? Quick learner.

    • (Score: 2, Troll) by darkfeline on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:35PM (7 children)

      by darkfeline (1030) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:35PM (#1031873) Homepage

      >There was no excuse to remain kneeling on a man's neck for almost ten minutes. None.

      You mean, other than knee to neck restraint being standard protocol for restraining subjects exhibiting excited delirium? Clearly, it was wrong for police officers to follow standard protocol and they should have invented their own protocols on the spot.

      https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911 [medium.com]

      "The Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) allows the use of neck restraint on suspects who actively resist arrest, and George Floyd actively resisted arrest on two occasions, including immediately prior to neck restraint being used."

      "The officers were recorded on their body cams assessing George Floyd as suffering from “excited delirium syndrome” (ExDS), a condition which the MPD considers an extreme threat to both the officers and the suspect. A white paper used by the MPD acknowledges that ExDS suspects may die irrespective of force involved. The officers’ response to this situation was in line with MPD guidelines for ExDS."

      "Restraining the suspect on his or her abdomen (prone restraint) is a common tactic in ExDS situations, and the white paper used by the MPD instructs the officers to control the suspect until paramedics arrive."

      "Chauvin’s neck restraint is unlikely to have exerted a dangerous amount of force to Floyd’s neck. Floyd is shown on video able to lift his head and neck, and a robust study on double-knee restraints showed a median force exertion of approximately approximately 105lbs."

      (note that this would be divided between the neck and back)

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      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:12PM (5 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:12PM (#1031895) Journal

        Like a choke hold - you would use such a procedure to subdue someone. You don't continue to choke for ten minutes. One of the cops was concerned enough to ask his superior about turning Floyd over. Bystanders are shouting to check his pulse. The senior cop wasn't concerned enough to have Floyd's pulse checked - any person standing nearby could have done so. "Hey, this guy has no heartbeat, you can stop kneeling on his neck!" The large solid looking cop who looks almost Asian could have checked the pulse, or the guy who asked about turning Floyd on his side.

        Sorry, this protocol won't sway me, and I don't think it will sway a jury.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by darkfeline on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:48AM (4 children)

          by darkfeline (1030) on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:48AM (#1032134) Homepage

          >procedure to subdue someone

          No, it's to restrain someone, big difference.

          It sounds like you're still operating under the lie that the officer was applying all of his weight onto George's neck. if you read my link, you would know that the protocol is to use light to moderate force on the neck, only to prevent the person from getting up and not to choke them, obviously, and the video evidence along with studies of the force applied by knee to neck restraint indicates that the officer was not applying very much force to George's neck.

          So no, I don't care for your "fake news" (god, I loathe the term, but there's so much false or misleading information flying around) of the officer grinding his knee into George's neck with the force of a thousand suns. All that happened was that the officer put George on the ground (at his own request, no less, as shown by the bodycam footage) and prevented him from getting up, per protocol.

          Also, cops are not EMTs. Them checking George's pulse or rotating him would have done no good in this case, and in the general case I don't want cops without medical training moving me if I am suffering from a medical condition. I'd rather the EMTs that will arrive soon do that.

          >One of the cops was concerned enough to ask his superior about turning Floyd over.

          The protocol is to keep people exhibiting excited delirium on their stomach, in prone position.

          In response to your other comment, perhaps the protocol is bad. I won't contest that point. But it is not the duty of the cops to write protocol, it is the politicians and policy-makers. And it certainly isn't the duty of the cop out in the field to rewrite the protocol.

          If we truly cared about justice, we wouldn't be trying to punish the cops at the scene, but rather the policy-makers. But as always, those at the bottom of the totem pole get sacrificed to the lynch mob of public opinion.

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          Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
          • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:16AM (2 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:16AM (#1032156) Journal

            protocol

            If you're so aware of "protocol", you would be aware that particular protocol was not a protocol [as.com].

            Minneapolis police officers have used neck restraints at least 237 times and rendered people unconscious 44 times since 2015, according to NBC News. Minneapolis police officials told NBC that this hold is neither sanctioned nor taught at the Minneapolis PD.

            I'll point out that in addition to the absence of protocol for this particular hold, it also provides a plausible way to kill someone in front of a bunch of video cameras. It's quite a coincidence that for a time over the past year, Floyd worked in the same place [newsone.com] as the police officer who killed him. Perhaps that happened because Chauvin and his fellows needed to hush up Floyd. Murder is a great way to do that, but most such ways look pretty lousy and incriminating in front of a bunch of cameras. But if you're merely "holding" Floyd, because he is "resisting arrest", due to showing signs of "excited delirium", you just might be able to get away with first degree murder.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by darkfeline on Thursday August 06 2020, @06:42AM (1 child)

              by darkfeline (1030) on Thursday August 06 2020, @06:42AM (#1032171) Homepage

              I'd be laughing if I weren't crying from the sheer amount of misinformation in your post.

              Here's the actual Minneapolis manual: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/minneapolis%20ced%20policy.pdf [sanfranciscopolice.org]

              5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS

              Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person's neck with an
              arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who
              have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two
              types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

              Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the
              subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

              PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.
              A. The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)

              The MPD deleted that page from their website shortly after the event. It seems like Minneapolis is trying to push an agenda.

              >Perhaps that happened because Chauvin and his fellows needed to hush up Floyd.

              Right, that's why they hypnotized George and made him overdose on drugs, and then hypnotized someone to call 911 to report someone under the influence attempting to operate a car, and then performed a maneuver that would look suspicious to a misinformed person when George was already claiming he couldn't breathe for minutes before he was laid on the ground by George's own request.

              But you know, if I were Chauvin and trying to hush George, you know what I would've done? I would've just waited for him to die from the drug overdose I hypnotized him into. There'd be no way I could've been implicated while doing a neck restraint as described by section 5-311 from the MPD manual.

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              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:46PM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:46PM (#1032271) Journal

                Perhaps that happened because Chauvin and his fellows needed to hush up Floyd.

                Right, that's why they hypnotized George and made him overdose on drugs, and then hypnotized someone to call 911 to report someone under the influence attempting to operate a car, and then performed a maneuver that would look suspicious to a misinformed person when George was already claiming he couldn't breathe for minutes before he was laid on the ground by George's own request.

                Perhaps, they were fine with him breathing and such, until he started passing bad $20s and generating 911 calls - attention to their schemes in other words. Sure, you find it remarkable that the first police to respond to the scene included someone who probably knew Floyd from outside work and then killed him? But I guess a lot of things appear legit to the misinformed person, eh?

                There's some indications that murder wasn't intended. For example, Floyd allegedly was still breathing when the ambulance arrived. It would have been easy to kill him prior to that point with that kind of hold. OTOH, maybe Chauvin thought he had already killed him and just did it wrong.

                On that last phrase from your quote:

                laid on the ground by George's own request

                Was George's death also at his request? Laying someone on the ground doesn't require putting a knee on their neck and Floyd certainly wasn't requesting his own death. You're bullshitting us.

                This isn't a normal restraining of a suspect who is experiencing excited delirium. Normal restraining doesn't result in the person dying. It's time to consider what went wrong.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:21PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 06 2020, @02:21PM (#1032263) Journal

            Historically, who writes all these protocols and procedures, policies and regulations? Do citizens have any opportunity to influence these things? Have you ever seen or heard of a referendum at the county level, in regards to police procedure? No, neither have I.

            Now, you may, if you wish, research any number of policies and protocols. It would likely take a lot of time, with a lot of spinning your wheels in circles. Where do they come from? How do these things evolve?

            Bottom line, police write police procedure, policy, regulation, etc ad nauseum.

            How about that 21 ft rule? It says that an armed assailant within 21 feet can close the distance and attack in something like 1 second, faster than an armed cop can react to the threat. That "policy" was written, demonstrated, justified, and justified again and again with TRAINED ASSAILANTS. That is, military level special forces types with a knife can attack and overcome an armed police officer in just a second or so from a range of 21 feet. And, that factoid has been used to justify the shootings of hundreds of stupid/stubborn/ignorant American citizens over the years.

            Fear. Cops are scared, so they found a justification to react to that fear with force.

            Don't like that particular example? Pick your own. Pick a procedure, a policy, whatever, and find out where it came from. Did the citizenry have any input into it? I'll bet dollars to donuts that your community had nothing to say about whichever policy you choose. The police, the police unions, ex-military all had input. As a rule, they just write this shit for themselves. If that doesn't work, they lobby the capital, mostly talking to gullible politicians who don't come from the ghettos and poor neighborhoods. When a cop talks, the politician mostly just accepts his word as gospel. Just like in court, the judge almost always believes the cop, and never the defendant.

            Policy, protocol, whatever - I don't accept that they can't be improved on.

            As for the individual cop's liability when following protocol - well, sorry, THE COP IS RESPONSIBLE.

            No matter how we twist, turn, and try to avoid responsibility, George died while these cops had him under their control. He died. Three cops had their hands on him, and he died. They weren't concerned enough to check his pulse - they had to follow some bastard protocol?

            This is where that callous disregard for human life comes in. We need to redifine "police" to be less "law enforcement" and more "peace keeper".

            If some cops get burned unjustly in the process, well, I'm sorry. How many American citizens have been killed unjustly over the years? Time to balance the ledger, I think.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:19PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:19PM (#1031900) Journal

        Let me add: These "protocols" are a large part of the reason for all the protests and riots. Like it or not, cops and their protocols kill a considerable number of people. We cannot, and must not, fall into the Antifa/BLM/Leftist trap of assuming every dead black person is a murder - but the numbers are just too high. It seems far too easy for an all-white or a mostly-white police force, most of them from outside the community, to be callously indifferent to the suffering of black people, with whom they don't identify.

        Maybe the cop DIDN't intend for the suspect to die - but he didn't care enough to even check the pulse? That is callous indifference, amirite?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by inertnet on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:29PM

      by inertnet (4071) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:29PM (#1031904) Journal

      I read somewhere that he had 2 rookie cops with him, so I'm wondering if he had an "I'll show you rookies how it's done" kind of attitude.

      Anyway, if he gets convicted for less than manslaughter, that would only reinforce the notion that cops can get away with anything. Instead, police officers should be made aware that they can and will be held accountable for any abuse of power.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:38PM (12 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:38PM (#1031726)

    I'm not dead yet, so who knows... when confronted with shit-your-pants life threatening situations involving other human beings, dogs, and one pissed off ostrich... my instinctive/somewhat learned reaction has been to respond with confidence - not necessarily aggression (unless I clearly had a winning position in the confrontation), but head held high, shoulders spread, going to go about my own business here and you are not putting mortal fear into me. If this involved officers of the law, it would include clear respectful obedience to their instructions, sir yes sir, but having significant experience with bullies, cowering in fear only encourages them to continue.

    We shouldn't have to respond to officers of the law, state, or any other government representatives as if they are bullies - those kinds of people should not be in positions of power, police reform has been clearly needed for decades - it's a shame that we needed 30% unemployment to get up the collective will to call for it, but... in the world I live in - letting a bully know that you are not afraid of them, and that you have the means and demeanor to come for them at a future opportunity, physically or in the case of law enforcement: legally, if they cross the line now has defused them for me in the past.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:00PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:00PM (#1031749)

      one pissed off ostrich

      Do not try this on Emus. Australia did and lost:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War [wikipedia.org]

    • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:09PM (2 children)

      by Freeman (732) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:09PM (#1031757) Journal

      I've only had one run-in with the law besides frisking at the airport and random traffic stops. I was riding with a friend and he was pulled over, because he tail-light was out. That wouldn't have been a big problem, except my friend acted nervous. I mean, like sweating bullets, kinda nervous. I very much didn't want to go to jail for random crazy thing. Turns out, he'd already had a traffic violation or two and this would have been his third strike. With regards for his job, not anything else. Thankfully, he told the cops that and they let him off with a warning. I also, didn't end up spending the night in county lock-up, which is a very happy thing for me. Okay, I guess that was a random traffic stop, but that's the only time I was actually concerned about the outcome.

      --
      Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
      • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:17PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:17PM (#1031808)

        You like living in a country where passengers can wind up in jail for riding in a car with a tail light out driven by somebody else?

        • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:19PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:19PM (#1031829)

          It's like that in any country where the police have the power to arrest people, so you can knock it off. Being pulled over just grants the cops limited power to investigate, nothing more. They also have limited ability to really look into things, hence why you see people being taken back to the station for processing while things get sorted out from time to time. This is hardly just an American thing, so you can take that attitude and shove it. In most countries, there isn't even a right to a trial, regardless of who pays for the defense.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:18PM (5 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:18PM (#1031764) Journal

      I'll second that. The moment you show fear, the predator knows he has you whipped. You may be ready to piss your pants in fear, but you CANNOT allow the attacker to know that you are afraid. In this case, George Floyd let the cops know that he was afraid, and that he had a weakness. That all worked against him.

      In an ideal world, the cops would have allowed Floyd to sit up against that building, and waited for the ambulance to take him away. At no point did Floyd threaten or strike out at officers, or anyone else. He just didn't want to get in the car, and clearly stated that he had psychiatric problems. Not to mention, his girl friend told the cops he had mental problems.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:48PM (2 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:48PM (#1031787)

        There's all kinds of problems, and not showing fear isn't always something you can pull off.

        Non-compliance with instruction is the basis of every single "exciting" scene in the COPS TV show, when you don't do what the cop says to do, and immediately, they get VERY insecure, and that's not good for you. Just a speeding stop, but I had a highway patrol up behind me on a one-lane blind full speed (65mph) exit ramp, I continued driving until we got to somewhere that traffic would at least see us with time to react before I stopped - that cop was really agitated when he came to my window, worried that I might be trying to get off the expressway and lead him on a chase through the city. "Sorry man, just trying to find a safe place for you to get out..." he REALLY didn't care about getting hit by random passing cars, he was all about having his blue-lights obeyed ASAP, particularly when approaching a city exit ramp. I think he also wrote me a warning for 90/55... which is pretty rare to get stopped by FHP and not get a ticket with points and fine.

        --
        🌻🌻 [google.com]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:22PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:22PM (#1031834)

          If you don't like what the cops are ordering, there's a process to deal with that later. Unless what they're ordering is clearly illegal, you're better off just filing a complaint and lawsuit after the fact. Sure, you don't have to comply with illegal orders, but unless you're an attorney you may well not know what is and isn't going to hold up in court. Best thing is to just do what you're told and file suit later on if it's really illegal.

          In practice, if this is something that is happening regularly, you should probably be rethinking your life choices and learn how to drive properly.

          • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:45PM

            by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:45PM (#1031881)

            In practice, if this is something that is happening regularly, you should probably be rethinking your life choices and learn how to drive properly.

            That will do a lot of good for a friend of mine who was pulled over for doing 61 in a 60 zone where lots of other drivers were going 70+. Apparently the cop thought that a guy dressed business-casual near an office park at around 8:15 AM on a weekday, saying he was on his way to work, was "suspicious". Another time, he was arrested for being the victim of a crime, namely being assaulted with a knife in front of dozens of witnesses who agreed that he was the victim (the person who had attacked him was never arrested or charged). And this sort of thing happened frequently enough that he was kinda used to it.

            I guess he should have rethought his life choice of "being born black".

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:57PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:57PM (#1031980)

        I'll second that. The moment you show fear, the predator knows he has you whipped.

        Which is why sociopaths commonly test your body language by invading your personal space. That's only half the story because they'll also play the victim looking to pray on your sympathy. Based on these latest Floyd videos, I'd have suspected the latter - that I was dealing with someone playing passive aggressive games.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @12:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @12:02PM (#1032215)

        In an ideal world, the cops would have allowed Floyd to sit up against that building

        You don't need an ideal world for that, just a humane one.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:47PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @04:47PM (#1031813)

      The biggest shit-your-pants life threatening situation I've had as an adult is a pit-bull attack. I quickly went from "nice doggie" to "hey, you bit me" to "I can't believe this is happening". After the 2nd and fortunately last bite, I did something I've never done and hopefully never have to do again. I kicked the dog *hard*. I can still remember landing my foot in that hard chest. I barely deterred her. They always tell you not to run away, but I reasoned I had nothing to lose. I was already in a dog fight, and worse case scenario I was just back in a dog fight. So I ran away and the dog did too. I think the kick got the respect, and the running away got it satisfied somehow... as if both sides could claim victory with honor. Who knows what goes through the mind of a crazy bitch?

      The dog was found and quarantined, then I heard later that the owners got rid of it somehow. I wasn't the first victim. It had attacked a cat previously.... but I digress.

      The cops aren't quite put-bulls. I treat them as people who crave respect and order. I suck up my pride and say things like, "yes, officer". I know they dig it. Yeah, I'm white but I also have long hair and look like a hippie so if I gave them an excuse to search my car or bash me I think they'd take it, but they never have.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:20PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:20PM (#1031869)

        Many people don't know how to raise pit bulls or any feisty/protective breed. You're supposed to teach them about being careful and be able to turn them on and off. To not confuse playing with biting (unless it's in a structured drill that reinforces proper understanding of the use of force), etc. They are supposed to be shown a lot of love when they are puppies so they have an association of humans with kindness. Then, you teach them that some are bad. Not, "everyone's an asshole like me, try not to bite people".

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:58PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @02:58PM (#1031747)

    Minor detail.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:38PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:38PM (#1031775)

      There is a Cub Foods supermarket chain in the twin cities area, but this was a convenience store.

  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:17PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:17PM (#1031763)

    So the country burned and the whole story was a lie? You don't say. That was a totally unexpected development. That has never happened before in these Narratives intended to goad people into a Race War.

    Meanwhile, anyone with a functioning brain and has seen the last dozen similar attempts knew that when the Commie AG withheld the police bodycam video that the story would eventually be revealed as a fake but by then nobody would care. Which is what we see here. Remember "Hands up, Don't shoot!" was also a lie and to this day nobody cares, the Narrative is set.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:22PM (3 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:22PM (#1031765) Journal

      ?????

      You don't seem to have watched the videos. Yes, Chauvin was recorded, kneeling on an unresponsive man's neck, for about 9 minutes. That really and truly is fact. Don't conflate this story with other stories.

      You want to get into the Ferguson thing, it sounds like we might agree. Dumbass attacked a store owner, and only minutes later decided to try taking a gun from a cop. That sombitch got what he was looking for.

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:47PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:47PM (#1031850)

        Note the timestamps. Five minutes.

        We just saw video that this guy was spaced out and dying from a drug overdose, and he was claiming to be unable to breath long before they had to put him on the ground to control him until an ambulance could get there. The hold was done by the MPD book and nobody serious is now maintaining the libel that it had anything at all to do with his death. Police departments are banning the tactic, not because it isn't safe and effective, but because it looks bad on TV and emotionally incontinent people keep losing their sh*t.

        Yet what just happened here? Facts don't matter, the Narrative rolls on unchanged: The cop murdered the innocent dindu. Exactly as predicted in the original post. We are in a post rational society.

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:50PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:50PM (#1031852)

        The narrative before was based on the video from the store that only showed half the story. From that initial video, Floyd was not resisting arrest and it was described as every action the officers took was excessive/brutal to murder Floyd. That was the narrative before. This video shows Floyd resisting and saying he couldn't breathe before he was face down. I think describing it as police brutality is a bit of stretch now. Excessive? Certainly.

        The defense of the cops will be that it was department procedure. For the most part it was. Except the callous disregard for 9 minutes (arguably less as initial pinning could be justified but not for so long and certainly not after Floyd becomes unresponsive). Even if it was procedure to pin someone like that who is resisting, the circumstances changed when Floyd stopped resisting and became unresponsive. The cops should have reacted to Floyd when his behavior had changed being pinned. That is the mistake the cops made.

        I think what we will get out of this is that the prosecutor overstepped in trying to get elevated charges of murder. Manslaughter is more appropriate. I think it is pretty clear that the cops didn't go out of their way to kill Floyd. It was an accident not murder. There are things that Floyd and the cops could have done differently that Floyd would still be alive.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:04PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:04PM (#1031891)

          I think what we will get out of this is that the prosecutor overstepped in trying to get elevated charges of murder. Manslaughter is more appropriate.

          Nah, it's all politics - Murder charges sound exciting and pacify the braying masses. But it may be impossible to convict them. If the prosecutor wanted to secure a conviction, he could have charged them with murder, manslaughter, grievous bodily harm etc. for something to stick.

  • (Score: 0, Disagree) by nostyle on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:31PM (11 children)

    by nostyle (11497) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:31PM (#1031769) Journal

    Can we PLEASE stop propagating snuff videos across the internet.

    If you are on a jury and need to watch the evidence, then fine. Otherwise these clips simply serve to introduce PTSD across the world.

    Here's a hint: if you need to warn me that a video is disturbing, then don't link to it. If it is outrageous, then give a brief summary or the outrage and be done with it.

    • (Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:40PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:40PM (#1031778)

      Here's a hint: Don't watch it and continue wearing your mask waiting for The Cure.

    • (Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:43PM (6 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 05 2020, @03:43PM (#1031780) Journal

      <no-sarcasm>
      I agree videos should not be used for propaganda.

      However, these videos do serve a purpose because they tell the story, or parts of the story, in a way that is different from, and possibly more believable than eyewitness accounts.

      The reason that the video has a warning is so that you can avoid watching it if you are bothered by such videos. That is the stated reason for the warning, and I believe the sincere and actual reason for such a warning.

      I have seen the video, and worse videos, and do not have PTSD as a result.
      </no-sarcasm>

      Furthermore, I have not yet been involuntarily committed to an institution for Java programmers, so far as I am able to determine.

      --
      To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:46PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:46PM (#1031848)

        I have not watched the video and probably will not. I don't feel the need to and I sympathize with nostyle's position. However, that is my personal choice and I don't think my own feelings should outweigh the need for facts to be made public.

        This event has had nation-wide, if not world-wide, impact. It is approaching the same category in historical significance as the assassination of JFK or similar murders/deaths that have been broadcast on TV.

        Will this footage being made public make it harder to find an impartial jury for the trial of the cops? Yes, but probably not impossible. There are plenty of people who won't watch it. All that said, I would have preferred it to be kept under wraps until after the trials are over. There's already enough footage of the event out there to have a good idea of what happened. Though, now that this is out, there's no need to try to suppress it.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by nostyle on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:10PM (4 children)

        by nostyle (11497) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:10PM (#1031866) Journal

        Just because you do not notice the damage to your psyche does not mean you aren't being trained to shrug off atrocity.

        ...and no I don't watch the videos, but there are many unthinking web-surfers who do not sense the danger.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:27PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:27PM (#1031872)

          I think it's important for people to see because it shows what pigs will do to anybody, not just half-retarded Blackards.

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:58PM (2 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:58PM (#1031915) Journal

          Just because you do not notice the damage to your psyche does not mean you aren't being trained to shrug off atrocity.

          <no-sarcasm>
          I do not make a habit of watching such videos.

          There are videos on YouTube of serious police misconduct, as well as fully justified police conduct that resulted in fatality.

          There is some small value in seeing that the misconduct is far more widely spread than one may realize. I certainly did not realize it. I only got interested after Ferguson Missouri. I wondered why we had not seemed to learn anything since Rodney King, which was plenty of time to learn. And to people complaining about riots I would say maybe they should have, and we all should have held our police more accountable for unjustifiable actions. And Rodney King was unjustifiable. Maybe now we will finally hold police more accountable. Get them better trained. Weed out people who are not suitable for the job. Clue: the high school bully, despite not having any talent, marketable skills or job prospects, does not automatically mean you should take pity and hire him as a police officer.

          Another clue is the use of language. When police use the word "citizens", I applaud them. Whey they use the word "civilians", I shriek back in horror. They say this because they see themselves as some kind of occupation army against an insurgent civilian population.

          Oh, and maybe not all military people are suitable for police work. Military service should not be an automatic qualifier. The jobs are different.

          There are bad things in the world. Some bad videos inform us of it better. It becomes real. In all its horror.

          The lack of videos is probably why nothing was done from Rodney King until now. So maybe we need a reasonable dose of these videos -- because they are horrifying. Hiding from the reality while we go to our malls, is how we got here.
          </no-sarcasm>

          --
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          • (Score: 2) by Booga1 on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:30PM (1 child)

            by Booga1 (6333) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:30PM (#1031965)

            We had video of the Rodney King incident. It was a perfect example of police brutality that should have resulted in more change than the aftermath actually produced. Part of that was due to how unsympathetic Rodney King was as a victim.
            Many, many, many times people see horrible things done to someone who is a horrible person and think, "Well, they deserved it."

            Murderer killed in prison? The people cheer.
            Suspect crashes car and dies while fleeing from the cops? More cheering while people say "they shouldn't have run."
            Child molester raped, beat, or murdered in prison? Yet more cheering.

            To an extent, it's human nature to have these reactions and emotions. Call it poetic justice. Call it karma. Call it natural consequences. Call it anything you want, but we shouldn't fall for all the excuses and rationalizations. They are endless.

            As for this particular footage, I am glad it exists. Body cams are part of what will be necessary to rebuild trust in the police. Good police know that the footage protects them from false claims. Personally, I think body cams and dash cams should be hard-wired to be on all the time. There have been way too many cases where the cameras were turned off by multiple officers during an incident.

            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:54PM

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 05 2020, @09:54PM (#1031976) Journal

              Just a few years ago I was against the idea of surveillance cameras everywhere.

              But maybe cameras everywhere is actually a good idea, as long as the cameras belong to the citizens.

              Every business, every vehicle, every home having cameras might help fight crime.

              --
              To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:26PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @05:26PM (#1031837)

      Watching the videos is the best chance to understand whether a protest worth supporting. The video of Tamir Rice very clearly showed why it was that the cops were justified in shooting him. If you take people's word for it, you'd think that he was a little boy that was executed for no reason by the cops. The reality from the video is rather clear, he was lowering what appeared to be a real gun in the direction of the cops and they were fully justified in shooting him. Unfortunately, cops don't benefit from the ability to analyze things after the fact. Had he not been waving the toy around, he likely wouldn't have even had the cops called in the first place. Had he lowered the gun before the cops showed up or, better, dropped it, the worst he likely would have dealt with was being arrested. But, he lowered it in their direction and got shot as a result. But, people still invoke his name as if the shooting could have been avoided by the cops. The shooting was available, but by Tamir or those around him, not the cops that had mere seconds to determine whether or not he was armed.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:40PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:40PM (#1031877)

        Tamir Rice was asking to get shot. His stupid mom should have taught him better. It looks like he was pointing the toy gun at white joggers and that's probably why someone called the cops. I mention the race of the joggers, b/c i suspect their race had something to do with why that little monkey was threatening them.

        All that being said those cops are pretty stupid. They pulled up way too close and put themselves in a much more dangerous position, which makes them much more likely to pull the trigger. They could have stopped the car 10-20 yards further back, Took cover behind the engine block, and been able to safely diffuse the situation.

        They should use shot guns instead of pistols when a call comes in regarding gun play. Or rifles when the situation demands it. If the perp has a real gun and starts shooting, they would be in a much better position to shoot the perp without having stray bullets flying all over the place like they usually do. They would also be even more confident in the initial confrontation as you're going to hit the perp with a full length stock 12 gauge and he won't shoot back after that.

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:09PM

        by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:09PM (#1031894)

        The video of Tamir Rice very clearly showed why it was that the cops were justified in shooting him. If you take people's word for it, you'd think that he was a little boy that was executed for no reason by the cops.

        Tamir Rice was killed by an officer who a nearby police chief had described as completely unsuited for police work and utterly lacking in trigger discipline. There were less than 2 seconds between the arrival of the cops and that officer opening fire, risking not only Rice but everyone that happened to be in the vicinity of this encounter in the park that day. As in, what he probably heard was something along the lines of (sirens and car noises) "DROP YOUR WEAP-"BANG!

        And then, while he was lying unconscious but still alive, they decided that securing the scene was more important than attempting any kind of first aid or radioing for EMS, which strongly suggests that they at the very least didn't care whether he lived or died. And then, when Tamir's sister came running towards the scene, they slammed her to the pavement, handcuffed her, and threw her into a patrol car.

        Unfortunately, cops don't benefit from the ability to analyze things after the fact.

        Oh yes they do. They absolutely analyze things after the fact when they write their reports. And in this case and many other cases where cops have killed civilians under suspicious circumstances, they fabricated a story about what had happened, and left out the part about roughing up the sister (who, need I remind you, had committed no crime). And it turned out that the video that you're referring to directly contradicted the officer's report (which is considered sworn testimony) about what had happened in numerous ways.

        The other thing I'm going to have to challenge is the idea that a suspect with no known mental illnesses would threaten a cop with a toy gun. That's something cop defenders repeatedly state as fact, even though it makes zero sense for someone to try it, because regardless of what the cop thinks is happening, the person pulling the toy gun knows that toy gun won't help them at all and will give the cop every reason to shoot. Also worth mentioning here is that if someone has a toy gun in their belt or waistband but not in their hand, in order to comply with an order to drop said toy gun they have to pull it from their belt or waistband and then drop it, and of course the move to do that could also be interpreted by a trigger-happy cop as drawing the weapon to attack the cops. And that's assuming the toy gun isn't, as was pretty common practice before widespread video, something the cop brought with them to plant on people they'd illegally shot.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by darkfeline on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:53PM (3 children)

    by darkfeline (1030) on Wednesday August 05 2020, @06:53PM (#1031884) Homepage

    The entire George Floyd affair is a shitshow from start to finish (er, I guess we're still not finished yet?).

    I went from "George Floyd was absolute scum, but the police should have handled it better" to "the officers were 100% in the right and did everything well given the situation and their available knowledge" after seeing the leaked footage and reading this:

    https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911 [medium.com]

    The icing on the cake is that the white paper that the police department used as standard protocol for handling this situation even predicted the risk of public outrage:

    "Given the irrational and potentially violent, dangerous, and lethal behavior of an ExDS subject, any LEO interaction with a person in this situation risks significant injury or death to either the LEO or the ExDS subject who has a potentially lethal medical syndrome. This already challenging situation has the potential for intense public scrutiny coupled with the expectation of a perfect outcome. Anything less creates a situation of potential public outrage. Unfortunately, this dangerous medical situation makes perfect outcomes difficult in many circumstances."

    Emphasis mine. I don't think the authors of the white paper could have predicted a national mob causing so much damage though.

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    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:05PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @07:05PM (#1031892)

      It will be finished in November, because the protests are campaign rallies.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @10:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05 2020, @10:06PM (#1031987)

      Having a protocol, just like "only following orders" supposedly hasn't worked since Nuremberg.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06 2020, @05:48PM (#1032362)

      Get fucked fascist scum. The police murder a man in cold blood and you think some rsther petty crimes are justification for it? You won't last long in that new future you dream about.

  • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:46AM

    by Reziac (2489) on Thursday August 06 2020, @03:46AM (#1032131) Homepage
1 (2)