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A 25-year-old resident of Reno, Nevada was infected with the pandemic coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, two times, about 48-days apart, with the second infection causing a more severe case of COVID-19 than the first and requiring hospitalization and oxygen support.
That's according to a draft study, led by researchers at the University of Nevada and posted online. The study has not been published by a scientific journal and has not been peer-reviewed. Still, it drew quick attention from researchers, who have been examining data from the first confirmed case of a SARS-CoV-2 reinfection, reported earlier this week.
[...]
Amid the more than 24.5 million cases worldwide, it is completely expected to find some recovered patients who are not completely protected by their immune responses and are thus vulnerable to reinfection.The big question is: how common is this scenario?
(Score: 0, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @01:15PM (60 children)
If by "a lot" you mean round about 95% with an average of two to three contributing conditions, you would indeed be correct [cdc.gov]. If you're under fifty and don't have any contributing conditions, you have essentially no chance in hell of dying of coronaids.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday September 01 2020, @01:57PM (21 children)
You're underestimating the danger, but most people I know overestimate it. And one of the "underlying conditions" that make you more likely to have a bad reaction to COVID is having a blood type other than O. Another is being male.
Personally, I'm not sure these "underlying conditions" are actually contributory, but suspect that they're markers correlated to a common underlying problem, possibly something about the reaction of sugar in the blood. But that *is* a guess. If so, it's nothing blatantly obvious. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the cases were on a ketosis diet.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @02:09PM (8 children)
No, the underlying conditions mentioned are not being male or your blood type. They are other diseases, injuries, and otherwise unhealthy medical conditions. RTFA.
And, no, I'm not underestimating a damned thing. I'm taking and citing the best numbers available and drawing the only conclusion remotely supported by those numbers.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Informative) by RandomFactor on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:01PM (2 children)
Two things can be true at once.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm [cdc.gov]
(see Table 3)
6% of Covid deaths are from Covid alone.
94% of Covid deaths involved at least one other underlying health condition, and on average 2.6 additional conditions or causes of death.
The following were listed co conditions/causes
Influenza and pneumonia
Respiratory failure
Hypertensive disease
Diabetes
Vascular and unspecified dementia
Cardiac Arrest
Heart failure
Renal failure
Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events
Other medical conditions
Things start to break and weaken after 50, so age makes sense for being a correlation in disease caused deaths of almost any sort, and age can certainly be correlated positively with all of the above conditions.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html [cdc.gov]
Comparing just on age, a 50-64yo with covid has 30x the risk of death vs an 18-29yo.
There is a correlation between blood types and disease risk seen [mit.edu] with O and AB less likely to test positive, and A at increased risk.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:07PM (1 child)
O FTW, BITCHES!
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Tuesday September 01 2020, @05:30PM
Kinda liking that one m'self :-)
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by sjames on Tuesday September 01 2020, @05:12PM (4 children)
The thing is, many of those underlying conditions would never have been the patient's cause of death.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @08:18PM (2 children)
The thing is, the patient was going to die eventually, anyway. Covid may have hastened that death, or it may not have. Roll 5 d20, any result over 96 says Covid was the killer.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday September 02 2020, @12:37AM
Yes, that seems to be the message from certain ...people.
"Some of you are going to die, but that's a price I'm prepared to pay".
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday September 02 2020, @09:21AM
Everybody will die eventually, but for some reason we still try to avoid it and we still throw people in prison if they speed the process up for someone else.
Sounds like you're the kind of generous person that will cheerfully give yourself the shirt right off of someone else's back.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday September 01 2020, @10:23PM
I was bored enough to research it, it seems to be the majority of causes of death, according to
https://www.cdc.gov/Nchs/data/ahcd/agingtrends/06olderpersons.pdf [cdc.gov]
Chinese Flu condition list accounts for 32 + 8 + 6 + 3 + 3 + 2 = 54% of death certificate causes
Non-Chinese flu death certificate causes in the top 10 include cancer at 22%, Alzheimers at 3%, accidents around 2% and septicemia around 2%.
I had to look up septicemia to figure out what it is; hell it kills about 1 in 50 Americans. Turns out its undifferentiated infection where your body starts rotting before you finish dying. That sucks. I'd be willing to "give" septicemia to either argument for or against although I felt pessimistic so I filed it as against.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @02:12PM (11 children)
Yes, sugar competes for entry into cells with vitamin c. These covid patients all have pretty much zero vitamin c left (literally undetectable in 95% of covid patients) and tons of sugar blocking the little that remains so their bodies degenerate.
This was already submitted to soylent here: https://soylentnews.org/submit.pl?op=viewsub&subid=43092¬e=&title=Vitamin+C+levels+in+patients+with+SARS-CoV-2-associated+acute+respiratory+distress+syndrome+ [soylentnews.org]
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16195374/ [nih.gov]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4024712/ [nih.gov]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @02:37PM (10 children)
Wonder if any of the folks they've found this issue in have been doing the ketosis thing. Little to no glucose in your system should mean it'd have a very hard time causing any problems with vitamin C uptake.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @03:30PM (9 children)
Looks like they didnt get any patients: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04358835 [clinicaltrials.gov]
Here they recommend trying a low carb diet: https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/07/09/bmjebm-2020-111451 [bmj.com]
Other people suggest injecting ketones directly: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7362813/ [nih.gov]
But yea I don't see any reports of diet and covid, I would expect a keto diet is beneficial though.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @03:38PM (8 children)
So smoke, do keto, take vitamin C, go play outside, and if you're in possession of huge amounts of melanin take some vitamin D. Sounds a lot less burdensome than wearing a mask.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @03:46PM (3 children)
I'd only add get a pulse oximeter and if you feel sick and your spO2 starts dropping do not wait for weeks before getting supplemental oxygen. And the best way to do that is probably hyperbaric chambers. Especially since its now being reported that methemoglbin levels are high and total hemoglobin levels are low. HBOT bypasses hemoglobin and forces the oxygen to dissolve directly in the blood.
https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0014299920305860 [elsevier.com]
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajh.25868 [wiley.com]
We've known all this since mid-April (some since February). Everyone who has died since then has died from inept medical treatment.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:12PM (2 children)
My biggest frustration, mostly with "news" media: so much talk and stories and very little useful information. Thank you for useful information.
Q: do you know- what is the specific mechanism of death due to COVID-19??
The best I've been able to glean through all the noise is low blood O2 due to lung inflammation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @06:11PM (1 child)
ARDS or blood clots, afaik.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 01 2020, @07:26PM
Yes, thanks, and that's the general symptom diagnosis. I was wondering if anyone has more detailed specifics about the underlying mechanism.
AFAIK it's lung inflammation due to overactive immune response (in the lungs), and the dexamethasone steroid treatment is radically helping:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-dexamethasone-and-covid-19?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg-aQ2dbI6wIVirbICh3KbQomEAAYASAAEgK7TvD_BwE [who.int]
It's not without downsides, but this seems to be an improved medication regimen:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2769100 [jamanetwork.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by https on Tuesday September 01 2020, @08:40PM (3 children)
What we have here is further evidence that you have murder in your heart.
And before you go "WTF, where do you get that from?!?", ask yourself why you're OK with not performing a simple action which doing, saves lives, and not doing endangers lives.
You really, really, really should go and look up the definition of pandemic. Like it or not, you're in the same foxhole as everyone else in the world. You're like the new recruit who has decided to take up juggling hand grenades out of boredom.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @10:41PM
If you hide inside, avoid the doctor until you have been sick for weeks, and then get put on a ventilator right away, then you will die of covid. If you take the measures recommended by the parent you will be fine.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 02 2020, @03:08PM
Do you know what happens to a pandemic that 99.9+% of people survive when you let everyone get it and become immune long enough to not catch the same strain again? That strain goes the fuck away permanently and the death toll for the first year is the entire death toll for all time. When you drag it out you allow time for acquired immunity to be lost and absolutely guarantee that your death toll will be much, much higher.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 02 2020, @05:20PM
shut the fuck up, you stupid bitch.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @02:05PM (8 children)
Disagree all you like, you'll just be proven wrong. Pretty much everyone's numbers are saying exactly that though. Throughout Europe [nature.com], so you can't rightly bitch about US numbers being as intentionally dishonest as they are and sidetrack the discussion, you have a 0.01% or less chance of dying of a diagnosed and reported case of coronaids if you're 50 or younger. Since so incredibly many cases are entirely asymptomatic, the real number's even less than that. Feel free to keep declaring the sky is falling though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:15PM
There you go- ruining a perfectly good budding flame war with actual facts, logic, and rational conclusions. Sheesh.
/s
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Tuesday September 01 2020, @06:02PM (6 children)
Even assuming your figure is correct (I don't have time to fact check that right now), that's only based on what little we know of this disease in humans so far. All we know is that most of those people haven't died yet. It's a nasty disease and they could all start dropping like flies 20 years from now. When you get old, lung damage from earlier in life starts to become a much bigger issue.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 02 2020, @03:10PM (5 children)
No. You do not get to say dying 20 years later is on coronaids. Humanity sure as fuck isn't going to give you twenty years to find out if it does or not either.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by acid andy on Wednesday September 02 2020, @04:23PM (4 children)
'kay. We'll discuss this further in 2040.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @05:18PM (3 children)
Not if the chicken littles of the world are right. We'll all have died of coronaids, been killed by cops, or been defended against in peaceful protests by then.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday September 03 2020, @05:53PM (2 children)
Ah well, my posthumous SoylentNews argument
conversation bot should be ready by then to take over that discussion. It will be powered by downmods (technically, a special peripheral attached to the ethernet adapter will harvest the electric energy only associated with packets containing its comments that were downmodded).If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @07:24PM (1 child)
Two shiny new lines of code in to autocollapse spam modded comments. Enjoy.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday September 03 2020, @10:11PM
Nice work, thank you. My comment wasn't really meant to be a subtle dig about the spam bot though. Probably partly inspired by it, but it just supposed to be crazy bullshit.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 5, Informative) by Aegis on Tuesday September 01 2020, @02:44PM (4 children)
Hey genius, the first six items in your list are caused by coronavirus.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @03:20PM (3 children)
No, you either need to learn to read or you need to brush up on your medical lingo. Pro-tip: The flu, any chronic condition, and "other diseases of the respiratory system", at the very least, are never caused by coronaids.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @07:24PM (2 children)
Ugh you're stupid. Any illness can weaken your immune system and allow other diseases to get a hold. Like an immuno compromised person, the underlying cause was their compromised immune system and not whatever usually non-fatal issue got hold.
I don't hold out hope for you, anything more than simple direct connections are above your pay grade.
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @08:24PM
That's what was said at the start of the discussion. If you're already weak, aged, dying from some disease or other condition, you'll be fucked when Covid gets you. Otherwise, not so much.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 02 2020, @03:11PM
No shit, Sherlock. That's why it's called a contributing condition.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Tuesday September 01 2020, @02:54PM (16 children)
True, but that doesn't mean you will not have lasting damage to the lungs or heart, no matter what age you are. You could need medical treatment for a long time, potentially for the rest of your life. But you won't have died from Covid-19 so that is OK. And with the cost of medical care in the US that also means that many will not be able to afford that treatment.
(Score: 2, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @03:24PM (8 children)
It doesn't mean that you won't be hit by a meteor either. To date there is massively insufficient evidence to say coronaids is even correlative, much less causative, to any significant, lasting conditions.
As for medical care affordability? You're better off being broke if you want to be able to afford medical care here. If the fucktards in DC think you should be able to afford treatment or insurance yourself, it's astoundingly more expensive.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @03:56PM (1 child)
In the USofA, skin color is a deciding factor in healthcare affordability. If you're white and broke, you get to be your own Dr. Don't ask me what it's like to perform surgical procedures on yourself. If you're non-white and broke, you get the best healthcare other peoples' tax dollars can buy. I believe it's called 'reverse-racism'. Now there's a term you don't often hear bandied about in the media.
(Score: 4, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:06PM
No, it is provably not. Feel free to take your racist lies and shove them up your ass.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Informative) by janrinok on Tuesday September 01 2020, @05:45PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 02 2020, @03:18PM
See above, bro. Science requires proof and what they have are suspicions. They don't get to blame coronaids unless they can prove it was coronaids. They currently can not. It is a guess. It may be a correct, incorrect, well-founded, or wild-assed guess but it is undeniably a guess.
And, yes, I know the value of what comes out of the mayo system. Better than you, actually, since my stepmother has been one of their RNs for quite some time and I get first hand accounts whether I want them or not.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Tuesday September 01 2020, @06:39PM (3 children)
Insufficient for your personally acceptable level of risk. That still doesn't mean it's extremely improbable.
True but that's an event that, based on current evidence, is at least a few billion times less probable than COVID-19 causing significant lasting conditions.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 02 2020, @03:18PM (2 children)
Insufficient for science. Well, maybe not climate science.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday September 02 2020, @04:36PM (1 child)
Nah. It's perfectly scientific to say that a greater percentage of the current world population will eventually have died from COVID-19 than have already died. It's practically a certainty that there will be further deaths and those that have already died cannot (realistically) be resurrected. It just becomes a question of trying to predict how much greater that percentage could be, which is a question of probability and recognizing what we don't yet know about the disease.
Of course another side of it is questioning the accuracy of the existing published statistics. I think you've got that side covered, so I'll leave you to it on that.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @05:15PM
Yeah, if they were trying to make accurate predictions that would be a legit argument. They're not though. They're ordering numbers to be deliberately falsified and making claims even those numbers can't support. This shit is about politics and power top to bottom, the virus has never been more than an excuse.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by choose another one on Tuesday September 01 2020, @03:44PM (2 children)
Or lasting damage to the brain (sometimes the only symptom is stroke), or pancreas (hello type 1 diabetes, which has recently spiked in kids for no known reason, except a lot of those new cases are covid +ve...).
Best of all, when you get re-infected you'll be a "had a pre-existing condition" so your death won't matter. Oh and the "pre-existing condition"s usually inlcudes "being overweight", now, admittedly it's a while since I've been to USA, but going by my recollection and that definition, "pre-existing condition" actually included most of the people.
In summary - nothing to worry about if you are currently completely healthy (no asthma, no hypertension, no diabetes, no cardiovascular problems, not overweight, etc.), you are young, and you don't mind being chronically ill afterwards. Being white and female helps even more. Course you can still spread it to friends or relatives or random people at parties who may have far more chance of dying from your actions...
Also, in case anyone thinks I'm being theoretical and using the wrong numbers, I'm not - my wife was under fifty, zero pre-existing conditions, far fitter and healthier than me. Five months ago (actually nearly six) she got covid. Last year she was running half-marathons, now she struggles to run two miles and is out of breath just from walking up the stairs, and sense of taste and smell is still fubar, her sp02 is 5% down on the rest of us. That is what "no chance in hell of dying" looks like.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:04PM (1 child)
You mean the part where she's not dead? Yup, that's what it looks like.
There is, by the way, some amount of evidence that people in extremely good physical condition are hit much harder by it. Not proof, mind you, but enough to warrant a closer look.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:32PM
Reduced mucosal immunity due to salivary secretory immunoglobulin A deficiency. [nih.gov]
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:21PM (3 children)
I've read of reports of lasting general neurological damage, like loss of sense of smell, taste, some peripheral neuropathy, etc.
A few days ago I bumped into a friend I haven't communicated with in about six months. Turns out he had COVID-19 for about 6 weeks in March, and it was pretty bad.
He says that now all of his senses are heightened. I'm wondering if they're returning to normal and he perceives the difference as heightened. Either way, it messes with nerves somehow.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:31PM (2 children)
It's certainly been getting on mine.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Touché) by RS3 on Tuesday September 01 2020, @07:29PM (1 child)
Ah, so some covaids might numb you up enough to tolerate the covaids talk? You could always move on to the rioting discussions- I hear they're all the rage. ;-}
(sometimes I can't help myself, even though I know 7/8 of the readers here won't get my humor...)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 02 2020, @03:26PM
Nah, riots stopped being fun back before I had nearly this many birthdays. On the extremely remote chance they happen here, I'll shoot anyone who steps foot on my property what looks like they have an intent to do harm stone dead without losing a minute of sleep. Or let folks who look to be minding their manners have a cold drink or a smoke or first aid or whatever. IDGAF what they do off in blue cities though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Informative) by cmdrklarg on Tuesday September 01 2020, @04:58PM (6 children)
coronaids
This whole calling COVID-19 something else just needs to stop. It's not clever and it diminishes the rest of your message, which is actually useful.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 01 2020, @07:32PM
I agree, but in life sometimes you have to take the good with the bad.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 02 2020, @03:27PM (4 children)
No. The reaction to it has been moronic in the extreme and I think I chose a very fitting moniker for it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday September 02 2020, @08:28PM (3 children)
No.
Your ideas about this pandemic are what's extreme. Your opinion has been noted. Giving a pandemic disease a stupid nickname doesn't help your cause.
187000+ dead and counting.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @05:11PM (2 children)
A) Bullshit. Fake as fuck numbers counting anyone who tests positive and dies as a coronaids death, regardless of the actual cause.
B) Whoopdie shit. We let more far people die every year to maintain our overall prosperity. You reckon folks dying from coronaids is somehow worse than dying from any of the communicable diseases we do jack shit about every year? Cause it doesn't even come close to the death count from them.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Thursday September 03 2020, @08:19PM (1 child)
Show me real evidence that these numbers are fake. It is already the third leading cause of death this year in the US (heart disease and cancer lead it). The evidence I've seen points towards those numbers being undercounted due to lack of testing.
The idea that COVID-19 is somehow a vast conspiracy to pull the wool over our eyes is patently ludicrous. It's not credible by any stretch of the imagination. You can believe what you want, and I'm not interested in convincing you otherwise. You're certainly not going to convince me with your assertions without evidence.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday September 03 2020, @09:43PM
You really should look around for dissent on matters this important. Here [lynnwoodtimes.com] are [arizonadailyindependent.com] a [coloradosun.com] few [mynorthwest.com] for starters. And then there are the CDC's own guidelines that directly state medical facilities should report "probable" as well as verified cases.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.