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posted by Fnord666 on Monday September 21 2020, @11:18AM   Printer-friendly
from the Pew-Pew dept.

For several decades there have been various incarnations of the idea of using lasers to zap flying insects, particularly mosquitoes. One of the systems in active development is the Photonic Fence from Intellectual Ventures Laboratory. Researchers from the laboratory recently published their findings on determining the optimal dosage to kill mosquitoes using the least amount of energy. One of the criticisms of their system has been that the areas in greatest need for mosquito eradication provide unreliable power, so their system would most likely need to operate by providing its own power.

Their research found that the optimal pulse duration for the lasers they are considering in their design is 25 ms. A significant difference between this research and their previous work is that this study was conducted on in-flight mosquitoes as opposed to previous work that used anesthetized specimens, which demonstrated their vision-based track and targeting system. An added bonus is the four slow-motion videos provided in the Supplemental Information section showing mosquitoes being zapped.

Keller, M.D., Norton, B.J., Farrar, D.J. et al. Optical tracking and laser-induced mortality of insects during flight, Sci Rep 10, 14795 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-020-71824-y


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by canopic jug on Monday September 21 2020, @11:34AM (7 children)

    by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 21 2020, @11:34AM (#1054348) Journal

    This fluff piece is trying to whitewash a set of some of the nastiest, most damaging patent trolls [thisamericanlife.org] out there. It has long been considered one of the most hated companies in the tech sector [cnet.com], which it is not really part of. Intellectual Ventures is really big into pushing software patents, among other problems. One method they use is, of course, lobbying. Another method is to spawn thousands of shell companies [gigaom.com] and sic them on targets. The targets can then play whack-a-mole with the shell companies until they run out of money. If a real company happens to win against one of the patent trolls, the shell company just vanishes in a greasy cloud of smoke and a new shell company takes its place with another shakedown attempt. Intellectual Ventures causes more harm than most patent firms [inc.com] due to their focus on software patents. It is a shame that this puff piece hit the front page of the site.

    Both Techdirt [techdirt.com] and Techrights [techrights.org] have a lot of coverage of those scum.

    --
    Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @11:38AM (2 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @11:38AM (#1054352)

      Not a shame at all - the more exposure to sunlight the Trolls get, the faster they turn to stone.

      TIATA - Transparency Is Always The Answer.

      --
      Україна не входить до складу Росії.
      • (Score: 2) by fadrian on Monday September 21 2020, @02:07PM (1 child)

        by fadrian (3194) on Monday September 21 2020, @02:07PM (#1054414) Homepage

        Except in real life, there are no real trolls, simply greedy humans, and simple exposure seems to have no negative impact on their actions.

        --
        That is all.
        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @03:24PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @03:24PM (#1054456)

          simple exposure seems to have no negative impact on their actions.

          Eradication may never happen, and attenuation can be frustratingly slow, but without exposure they grow larger and faster.

          --
          Україна не входить до складу Росії.
    • (Score: 2) by hubie on Monday September 21 2020, @02:51PM (3 children)

      by hubie (1068) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 21 2020, @02:51PM (#1054435) Journal

      I was not aware of all the Intellectual Ventures issues. As a hobby I like to go through peer-reviewed open access (or rather, non-paywalled) journals to find interesting articles to summarize here, and hopefully ones that don't show up at the usual sites (the green site, phys.org, etc.), but I don't spend much effort to try to verify that. This article caught my eye, particularly the videos. Since I need to write an intro paragraph or two and the paper was talking about their Photonic Fence, I looked it up online, saw a TED talk in my search, etc., and provided the links. No endorsement of them or their business practices was intended.

      Frankly, mosquitoes are pretty bad where I live and I relish the thought of zapping them with lasers, and that was/is the appeal of this article to me.

      • (Score: 2) by canopic jug on Monday September 21 2020, @03:14PM (2 children)

        by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 21 2020, @03:14PM (#1054447) Journal

        No problem. TED talks vary quite a bit but all the presentation topics and presenters must be verified independently since there seem to be no particular qualifications to present. Many others besides Intellectual Ventures also misuse TED talks as a form of advertising and misdirection. They are sneaky bastards and are trying to polish their reputation. Their excutive roster, past and present, is a rogues' gallery, including at least one from Tivo [linfo.org]. The earliest giveaway, if one were to dig deeply, is that Intellectual Ventures was founded by microsofters. The acorn has not fallen far from the tree.

        --
        Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
        • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @06:10PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @06:10PM (#1054543)

          Interestingly while checking that techrights site I noticed this article

          "Reminder: Vice Chair of the Linux Foundation’s Board is an Oracle Executive Who Used to Work for Microsoft"
          http://techrights.org/2020/09/20/oracle-microsoft-linux-foundation/ [techrights.org]

          What better way to destroy Linux than from the inside. Then they can claim that the free model can't work.

          • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by fakefuck39 on Monday September 21 2020, @06:54PM

            by fakefuck39 (6620) on Monday September 21 2020, @06:54PM (#1054574)

            That website looks like someone barfed up some random spam emails and saved it in an html file. Where's your "article" nigger?

  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @11:34AM (18 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @11:34AM (#1054349)

    I like Video 2 the best, though I wonder: if the optimal pulse is 25ms, do we need a tracking system? The forward velocity of an unladen mosquito shouldn't be much more than 5mph (females with a blood meal onboard are much slower), they can't really make headway in even a moderate breeze. With a wingspan of ~1/4 inch, that means a point transit time of ~28ms - I suppose you would need a sheet of laser energy rather than a beam, although with a beam you could effectively target passing (single) mosquitoes with a one dimensional tracker.

    --
    Україна не входить до складу Росії.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday September 21 2020, @11:59AM (11 children)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 21 2020, @11:59AM (#1054358)

      Having seen several videos on this topic including the "famous" TED talk demonstration, they get wound up about accidentally killing the useful bugs, bees and so on. And there's some laser way of reflecting an aimed beam off the bug to measure wing flapping speed which is effective at isolating mosquitos before blasting them.

      Someone modded you disagree but didn't bother explaining why; I'll explain why and not bother modding LOL? Maybe the "disagree" mod isn't so useful for tech type articles.

      As a side issue, because why not, it seems it would always be simpler to eliminate mosquito habitat than to shoot them down later in the lifecycle. So invent a drone that locates (municipal tickets?) clogged gutters, water filled trash in yards, etc. Also Ryobi makes a tool-battery powered fan, which in addition to making me cooler, the fan breeze disturbs mosquitos effectively, at least if I'm not moving out of the fan breeze. So invent a drone that hovers on my head like a virtual beanie and that would be a mosquito shield. Heck, have the drone laser scan for mosquitos and actively chase them away from me...

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @12:22PM (6 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @12:22PM (#1054363)

        I'll comment without modding: flying bugs in my home? Zero beneficial types, kill 'em all - let the HVAC filter out the smoke.

        --
        Україна не входить до складу Росії.
        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by gmby on Monday September 21 2020, @07:15PM (4 children)

          by gmby (83) on Monday September 21 2020, @07:15PM (#1054590)

          I once had some Jumping Spiders hang out in my bathroom plant area. They ate all the mosquitos and flies that came into the bathroom attracted to the water. Plant was hanging behind the toilet and never did the spiders jump on me or bite me. They did watch me alot; and I them. Watching a spider use a anchor line to hunt on a wall was just incredable. Fun little critters.
                https://youtu.be/UDtlvZGmHYk [youtu.be] BBC Video

          --
          Bye /. and thanks for all the fish.
          • (Score: 1) by anubi on Monday September 21 2020, @07:49PM

            by anubi (2828) on Monday September 21 2020, @07:49PM (#1054605) Journal

            If you have a pond around, consider a submerged LED "flounder light", pointed up, so as to attract mosquitos into the water. Have mosquito fish in the water.

            --
            "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
          • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday September 21 2020, @11:00PM (2 children)

            by Immerman (3985) on Monday September 21 2020, @11:00PM (#1054684)

            Spiders make for great pest control, with a little practice you can even train them to stay away from certain areas (or at least out of sight).

            House centipedes are another wonderful one (the grey-brown ones with long thing legs and dark racing stripes) - even more ruthless hunters than spiders, but not aggressive, and mostly incapable of biting through your skin even if you somehow manage to provoke them.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 26 2020, @08:14PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 26 2020, @08:14PM (#1057358)

              Also how do people benefit from pets in their homes? Social camaraderie?

              • (Score: 2) by Immerman on Sunday September 27 2020, @03:30AM

                by Immerman (3985) on Sunday September 27 2020, @03:30AM (#1057502)

                Sounds reasonable to me. We are pack animals by nature after all, and modern society has largely destroyed pack cohesion. They're still some functional use in modern society - if only by having someone more high-strung in the house to let you know whether you imagined that sound from the kitchen or not.

                Only... what do pets have to do with the conversation?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 22 2020, @01:47AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 22 2020, @01:47AM (#1054742)

          Leave the smoke. It will serve as a warning to the others who dare to follow.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @12:28PM (3 children)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @12:28PM (#1054364)

        clogged gutters

        As always, real life isn't so simple. I have a gutter (designed/installed by previous owner), it can get clogged within a day after clearing due to debris falling on the roof from nearby trees (shall we cut down all the trees to reduce mosquito habitat now?) - I have been often tempted to remove the gutter, which would reduce my exposure to your hypothetical drone ticketing, but that would lead to water ponding along the house wall rather than effective shunting to the yard with better drainage. This is actually the problem when the gutter clogs: water spills over and ponds along the house/sidewalk. So: clear the gutter when I can, but it is most easily done while rain is falling since that washes the loose debris down - and gets the wife yelling at me about self endangerment from lightning...

        --
        Україна не входить до складу Росії.
        • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Monday September 21 2020, @01:07PM (1 child)

          by shrewdsheep (5215) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:07PM (#1054379)

          Why can't you roof the gutter then?

          • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @01:27PM

            by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:27PM (#1054388)

            I've lived with a roofed gutter in another house - it still collects oak branches, leaves and acorns, but now they're up on the gutter roof instead of down inside the gutter, and also holding moisture that much closer to your roof decking. In other words, they may help some, sometimes, but they still need cleaning. The easier a gutter roof clears itself, it seems that it also shunts a significant proportion of the rainwater over its edge. Our problems don't come from trickle rains, they come from 4 inch+ per hour downpours.

            What I could do to solve it would be to eliminate the downspout, just open the end and put a hard surface on the ground for the water to fall on. For now I clean it about 5-10 times a year, usually just at the downspout; just takes a minute with a short stepladder - if you're doing it while the gutter is full of water so it washes itself clean after you clear the clog.

            --
            Україна не входить до складу Росії.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @04:49PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @04:49PM (#1054499)

          > clogged within a day after clearing

          Not sure about your details, but we have cheap plastic gutter cover slipped up under the shingles. The outer edge of the cover clips over the outer edge of the gutter. The best kind we've found has round holes and plastic screening stuck to the bottom side to keep smaller stuff from getting through the holes. Very effective on the black-locust-tree leaves (small leaves) that make up most of our problem. The screening is small enough to block the grit that slowly comes off the shingles and used to build up fairly uniformly in the bottom of the gutter.

          It's true that sheeting rain will wash over top and miss the gutter/downspout system, but we don't have those kinds of storms here very often.

    • (Score: 4, Funny) by RS3 on Monday September 21 2020, @01:14PM (2 children)

      by RS3 (6367) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:14PM (#1054384)

      The forward velocity of an unladen mosquito shouldn't be much more than 5mph

      What do you mean, an African or European mosquito?

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @01:29PM (1 child)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:29PM (#1054390)

        I wouldn't know, I'm not a king.

        (Thank you for recognizing the setup and following through.)

        --
        Україна не входить до складу Росії.
        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 22 2020, @04:28AM

          by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday September 22 2020, @04:28AM (#1054811)

          Run away! Run away! Oh, sorry, wrong one this time? I tried... :)

          Always glad to be there for you, and thanks for setting me up. :)

    • (Score: 2) by VacuumTube on Monday September 21 2020, @02:02PM (2 children)

      by VacuumTube (7693) on Monday September 21 2020, @02:02PM (#1054411) Journal

      The best mosquito control I've seen that works for many situations is to simply keep a fan blowing in the direction of people in the room. At doorways and windows additional fans do a good job of keeping the little suckers outside. The method is widely used in S.E. Asia.

      • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @03:27PM (1 child)

        by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @03:27PM (#1054458)

        Yep - if you get off on seeing dead bugs, you can add a mesh net bad in front of the fan. I doubt there is a whole lot of net difference in bug bites with/without the mesh bag, but it is gratifying to see that the effort is "making a difference."

        --
        Україна не входить до складу Росії.
        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 22 2020, @04:41AM

          by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday September 22 2020, @04:41AM (#1054816)

          I'm having a Déjà vu that I've written this before here. Anyway, I remember as a kid in the 70s at various roadside hamburger and ice cream places under the eves kind of above where you'd stand to order food they'd have this bug catcher that was super gross. It would have a circular florescent lamp with a fan in the middle and a cloth bag and it would always be full of bugs. Bugs love the UV from the florescent lamp.

          My neighbor used to have one of those bug zappers outside with the UV bulb and charged screens. The sounds were somewhat annoying on a warm summer night, especially when something would get lodged in it and it would buzz and crackle and buzz. Shame is it would kill good and bad bugs.

          I know mosquitoes are attracted to heat and CO2, but are they attracted to UV?

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @12:43PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @12:43PM (#1054368)

    mosquitoes with fricken lasers on their heads.

    • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Monday September 21 2020, @01:10PM

      by shrewdsheep (5215) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:10PM (#1054381)

      Because evolution is homeopathic? (fire breeds fire, lasers breed lasers)

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @01:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @01:41PM (#1054394)

      1 million mosquitoes in the gutters at Ram Ranch!
      Big, hard, throbbing veins wanting to be sucked!
      1 million mosquitoes waiting to be plucked!
      Mosquitoes in the gutters at Ram Ranch!
      On their wings wanting to suck cowboy necks!
      Ram Ranch is full of flying specks!

  • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Monday September 21 2020, @12:44PM (10 children)

    by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 21 2020, @12:44PM (#1054370) Journal

    1) Intellectual Ventures - already mentioned, the worst of the worst of the worst IP Trolls. It is a whiteboard and patent company that adds load without value to the rest of society.

    2) Evolutionary pressure. Stick a laser zapper out there and you'll kill some mosquitoes, but not all of them. Which ones will live? (The ones that fly low?)

    --
    В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @01:01PM (8 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:01PM (#1054376)

      Stick a laser zapper out there and you'll kill some mosquitoes, but not all of them. Which ones will live?

      I ran a propane powered mosquito sucker in a swamp for about two years... Three times the sucker sucked in a net full of mosquitoes in a single night, the rest of the time it would barely catch any.

      Point being: mosquitoes are a plague animal, like cicadas and others, there is a small background of continuous activity coupled with huge overwhelming population blooms. I doubt that a laser defense system is going to make much, if any, evolutionary pressure on mosquito populations. For instance: my house was located outside a 7000 acre "nature preserve" aka swamp, which provided ample reserves of breeding grounds for the mosquitoes. Unless you deployed 100,000+ laser systems into that swamp, you're not going to make a significant dent in the populations, and even at that level, what about the 70,000 acre swamp down the road? Or the 440,000 acre swamp in the next state?

      --
      Україна не входить до складу Росії.
      • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday September 21 2020, @01:27PM (2 children)

        by RS3 (6367) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:27PM (#1054387)

        I ran a propane powered mosquito sucker in a swamp for about two years... Three times the sucker sucked in a net full of mosquitoes in a single night, the rest of the time it would barely catch any.

        One possibility, and I really don't know, is that mosquitoes travel in clouds / swarms / groups, like schools of fish?

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @01:41PM (1 child)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:41PM (#1054395)

          The people who study mosquito lifecycles are pretty well able to predict these population blooms based on rainfall history and to a lesser extent temperature.

          We owned some riverfront forest land for a couple of decades, what we found while we were out there was: 90 days of 100 there were basically no mosquitoes, 9 of the remaining days there were just a few - like: swat the first two or three and you're done, there just aren't any more around to find you. Those remaining 3.6 days of the year: forget it, don't get out of the car no matter what. Imagine dark black mosquitoes the size of golf balls swarming the vehicle trying to get to you through the glass, stuff of nightmares.

          Another thing we found on that land was: not just mosquitoes but also fire ants and other noxious bugs tended to proliferate in disturbed areas - like the (artificially enhanced) drainage from the cow pasture across the road, or where we cleared a road and the contractor shallow buried vegetation under the soil. I used a (big) weed eater to take down a bunch of growth along the drainage one day and as the green fell down there was a black shadow that hovered in its absence: thousands of mosquitoes that had been perched under the leaves slowly diffused after I cut away their shelter - strangely, none of those tried to bite me - though I didn't stick around long to find out how long that would last. Places in the woods that had not been manipulated by people in decades did not have these kinds of plagues of biblical proportion.

          --
          Україна не входить до складу Росії.
          • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @05:08PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @05:08PM (#1054510)

            strangely, none of those tried to bite me

            Male mosquitoes don't bite. They suck plant juices. So it's not surprising that you're going to find them lurking around foliage and they're not going to be keen on biting you. Assuming they are mosquitoes. There are plenty of other same/size/type non biting flies that also breed in mass quantities.

            Some mosquitoes varieties are only active during the day. Others only active at night, while others yet can be active any time. I remember a fly in fishing trip where there was not one mosquito to be found all day long as long as the sun was up. But the minute sunset hit you better be behind screens or indoors because no amount of repellent was going to cut it.

      • (Score: 2) by Kell on Monday September 21 2020, @01:56PM (2 children)

        by Kell (292) on Monday September 21 2020, @01:56PM (#1054404)

        I think the idea is that you deploy the systems in peoples' bedrooms, not in the wild.

        --
        Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @03:21PM (1 child)

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @03:21PM (#1054454)

          So, are there any beneficial flying insects in your bedroom?

          --
          Україна не входить до складу Росії.
          • (Score: 2) by Kell on Monday September 21 2020, @10:54PM

            by Kell (292) on Monday September 21 2020, @10:54PM (#1054682)

            In so far as they feed my "pet" spiders that occupy the top corners of my house, sure!

            --
            Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
      • (Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Friday September 25 2020, @12:10AM (1 child)

        by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 25 2020, @12:10AM (#1056447) Journal

        Unless you deployed 100,000+ laser systems

        I'll be in my bunk.

        --
        В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday September 25 2020, @12:25AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday September 25 2020, @12:25AM (#1056453)

          It sounds impressive, but if you picture the actual deployment: 100,000 across 7000 acres, that's approximately 3000 square feet per emitter, ~55' (17m) grid. In dense woods, the laser still won't be able to reach well over half of the mosquito fly-zones that are shadowed by trees and foilage, and I doubt the targeting system will be very accurate at 25'+ distance.

          On the other hand, while I find this guy annoying, I find myself _almost_ ready to spring $1500 for a new toy:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAI7Lu4UFi4 [youtube.com]

          --
          Україна не входить до складу Росії.
    • (Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Monday September 21 2020, @06:58PM

      by fakefuck39 (6620) on Monday September 21 2020, @06:58PM (#1054579)

      3rd thing: we don't need lasers - we can do it with bullets. hook up a rotating gun to a tracking system and kill them with a silenced .22. Oh, you don't wanna get shot? Well the tracking system will make sure you're not in the way. Oh, what if it still shoots you in the .001% chance of wrong tracking? That's fine, since it's about the same chance of getting shot in the eye with this laser, and that's supposed to be ok.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @01:54PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @01:54PM (#1054402)

    Find a good way to farm dragonflies.

    • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday September 22 2020, @04:44AM

      by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday September 22 2020, @04:44AM (#1054818)

      I take it they eat mosquitoes? I used to be somewhat afraid of them as a kid but they're pretty cool and seem harmless.

      Bats eat mosquitoes, but iirc they're in decline.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @02:15PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 21 2020, @02:15PM (#1054417)

    ... we find a human eye (along with the rest of the person) :D

    (Teen 'Blasts Away' Parts of Retina by Staring Into a Pet's Laser Pointer)
    https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=20/09/20/059222 [soylentnews.org]

    CYA

    • (Score: 2) by nostyle on Monday September 21 2020, @04:27PM

      by nostyle (11497) Subscriber Badge on Monday September 21 2020, @04:27PM (#1054492) Journal

      Exactly! An eye for a mosquito makes everyone blind.

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by maxwell demon on Monday September 21 2020, @03:25PM (1 child)

    by maxwell demon (1608) on Monday September 21 2020, @03:25PM (#1054457) Journal

    Well, where I live, there are not many mosquitoes with frickin' lasers, therefore I don't need a defence system against mosquito lasers. :-)

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday September 21 2020, @03:51PM

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Monday September 21 2020, @03:51PM (#1054473)

      Sharks shot 'em all down?

      --
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