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FBI sent a team to 'exploit' Portland protesters' phones:
Federal agents tend to focus their phone cracking efforts on terrorists, but they appear to have shifted their attention to civil disobedience. NYR Daily has learned that the FBI sent its "Fly Team" counterterrorism unit to Portland in mid-July to conduct the "initial exploitation" of phones and other devices used by people protesting police racism and violence. The email revealing the plan, from now-retired special agent George Chamberlain, also asked for help with the "investigative follow up."
There's a concern that the FBI may have been pushing the limits of its device search powers in the process. Fly Team co-creator Raymond Holcomb told NYR that it's unclear what authority the FBI unit had to search the phones, and whether or not agents had consent or warrants. The Fly Team was formed to tackle counterterrorism with a "different set of tools," not everyday protesters.
[...] The FBI declined to comment on the details of the operation, citing the "ongoing nature" of cases like this. It maintained that the Portland activity met "all of our legal requirements," and that it had "not been focused on peaceful protests."
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday October 12 2020, @10:25AM (5 children)
Donny baby was very intimidated, so of course he hit back. An eye for an eye, plays very well to his base.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408365/
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @03:51PM
That's a good summary of what Trump has had the DHS, ICE, and law enforcers in general doing at his behest, too many of them enthusiastically.
(Score: 3, Touché) by fakefuck39 on Monday October 12 2020, @11:14PM (3 children)
Nah, if he "hit back" they would just shoot those guys and not worry about it. Which is what the residents of those neighborhoods actually want. The tiny group of assholes protesting were destroying people's lives. Did you not watch the videos where they were shooting fireworks at the cops, in a residential neighborhood, with fire literally raining down onto people's wooden houses?
I'm in Chicago. We're as anti-trump as it gets. Our mayor is a black lesbian. We have mexican and black gangs. The mayor asked for federal troups, and the gangs started shooting and beating up blm retards. Anti-protester does not mean for-trump. If trump is the tool to bring in troops with guns and shoot these assholes, we're all for it. This isn't a political thing. It's a "destroy my car, my place of work, set my house on fire, block the road so I can't get home - time to kill you" thing, and the people saying that don't give a crap about politics. Politics in order of importance comes long after "daily life and family."
Trump is a guy willing to do the right thing about blm - lock them up and shoot them. This is actually why a whole slew of centrist democrats are voting for trump now, despite being against him. Because it's simply a vote against the protesters, not a vote for trump.
(Score: 1, Troll) by captain normal on Tuesday October 13 2020, @06:35AM (2 children)
"Did you not watch the videos where they were shooting fireworks at the cops, in a residential neighborhood, with fire literally raining down onto people's wooden houses?"
About that: https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/ [opb.org]
From what I hear from friends who live in Oregon, most of the violence at the demonstrations has been from far right groups such as Patriot Prayer, the Bugaloo Boies etc. and the Border Patrol gang sent in by Bill Barr.
"It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled" Mark Twain
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @07:30AM
That's so much bullshit it's incredible. Antifa's media wing is Goebbels level -- it fits though -- they're the DNC's brownshirts.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 13 2020, @08:09PM
"From what I hear from friends who live in Oregon"
sounds like they're as dumb as you.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @10:59AM (2 children)
Democracy is terrorism!
--
You have the right to remain dead
(Score: 2, Touché) by hemocyanin on Monday October 12 2020, @06:19PM (1 child)
Democracy: burning down the businesses of hard working people, destroying jobs, killing ideological opponents, using low grade explosives, causing destruction and mayhem, engaging in intimidation, oh and arson. Lots and lots of fucking arson. This is the pinnacle of democratic expression.
Makes me awful glad I'm not a Democrat anymore.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by captain normal on Tuesday October 13 2020, @06:39AM
Yeah that gang in the White House is really making a mess of our fair country.
"It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled" Mark Twain
(Score: 4, Touché) by PiMuNu on Monday October 12 2020, @11:16AM (2 children)
Maybe some of the protesters were terrorists. Only one way to be sure...
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @02:35PM
If they're going to do this, and they really shouldn't, it should be the rightwing rallies and protests that they go after. Those are where the actual terrorists go. But, really, the FBI needs to be disbanded as it's corrupt and antidemocratic.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @04:17PM
Everyone knows that these self-declared "Freedom fighters", "La Resistance", Democrat party-supported "peaceful protesters" are not terrorists.
These communism and marxism following, barely-out-of-puberty-let-alone-diapers protesters that burn and loot every night, block roads, highways, & interstates, throw bombs at police and attack them with pipes, bats, & lasers, dox and show up at the homes of drivers who are unfortunate enough to end up being caught in the middle of their 'peaceful protests' and dare drive away instead of standing still and letting their vehicle and likely also their bodies be smashed and broken, are not terrorists.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Monday October 12 2020, @11:18AM (42 children)
There's been a lot of false flag kind of crap going on. The far right is too ready to believe tales that leftist protestors have turned violent. They will even commit the violence and crime themselves, and try to frame the protestors for it. Think they're real clever when it works on their fellows who weren't in on the deception.
I've heard that the 3 ingredients of a crime are means, motive, and opportunity. The FBI has been too zealous in finding somewhat motivated people who lack the means, the brains, and the drive to put together and sustain a criminal plot, provide them with what they lack, then arrest them. Most questionable is that they have sometimes steered the aggrieved towards activity that is criminal.
Like, I read of this crazy plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan. Supposedly the FBI learned of it and foiled it. But it seems they did more. They helped the plotters. Anyway, the stupidest thing about a plot like that is thinking that taking out a top official is going to matter that much. Assassinating Lincoln could not and did not undo the outcome of the Civil War. Suppose an assassin had removed Lincoln from the picture much earlier, like before he could deliver the Emancipation Proclamation. Would that have ended the war sooner, disheartened the Union so much that they gave up? Almost certainly not. If anything, it might have had the opposite effect, of further hardening the resolve.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 12 2020, @12:07PM (37 children)
Maybe you've dived a little too deeply into the conspiracy theory pool. The people in Portland have very clearly crossed the line from "protesters" to "rioters" many times in the past four months. Broken windows, battered protective coverings over windows, fires, cops with broken bones, burns, abrasions and contusions, laser pointers shined into peoples eyes, explosive devices thrown and/or launched at the cops and the buildings, burned out police cars, - these are all acts of violence.
Peaceful protesters can be a pain in somebody's ass, sure enough. Litter, graffiti, trampled vegetation, maybe some accidental injuries or a medical emergency here and there. As soon as the first window is busted out, it is no longer a "peaceful demonstration".
This supposed "far right" isn't manufacturing riots, or evidence of riots. The riots are real.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by helel on Monday October 12 2020, @01:33PM (22 children)
Garrick Fernbaugh [opb.org] was throwing pipe bombs at the protesters. Whether or not he's "far right" he's certainly manufacturing the evidence used to claim there are riots.
The [oregonlive.com] people [twitter.com] being [oregonlive.com] beaten [kgw.com] are [tmz.com] protesters [time.com].
The simple fact is the protesters are under repeated attack both by police and right wing activists who feel like it's open season on protesters and it's just rubbing salt in the wounds when conservatives use this violence as "evidence" that the protests are not peaceful.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 12 2020, @02:42PM (15 children)
Ohhhhhh-kay . . . I won't gloat too loudly yet.
First link, to OPB. It looks like they're associated with NPR and PBS. Forgive me, but I don't consider them very reliable. As for the article you linked to? Sounds a bit preposterous. They've tagged a retired SEAL who is making pipe bombs, and throwing them at protesters? So, we are expected to believe that a retired SEAL, or any other special services type, would be making bombs that didn't hurt anyone? Puh-LEASE.
Donaven Labella? Lucky for him it was a "less lethal" round. The article says he wasn't aggressive? Maybe . . true or not, he was actively supporting a riot. It's possible he wasn't even targeted, I don't know. Donny seems a good enough example to stay away from riots. Wandering around in a violent setting tends to result in injuries, who'da thunk it?
The twitter link kinda makes me laugh. The stupid ass swinging the baton looks like some kinda pussy. Probably learned to swing a bat in a little girl's softball league. I've looked at that video a number of times, and it always leaves me wondering just WTF was going on.
Mike Hastie? 75 years old, and going out to riot? Old dude deserves a nod of respect, but he decided to walk out and face a line of cops.
The next link, I click the video, and immediately wonder WTF did those guys just decide to chase down some dude. Vid starts just a second or two before the chase starts. Huh - weird. I watch for about 30 seconds, and a woman walks up to the "victim", tells him something that sounds like "that's what you get for kicking me, bitch". Nice, apparently the video was edited to take out what he did to prompt two men to chase him down. I watched the other portion of that video, couldn't figure out just what happened there either.
I'm very skeptical of each of these stories. Unlike Elen Urbani, none of the women in my life go out of their way to attend protests or riots.
What I am very sure of is, protesters and rioters have laid seige to the PPD and the federal building for four months now. The police haven't gone into all these rioter's neighborhoods and homes to attack them - the rioters have come downtown to the police to attack the police.
If/when the cops, federal agents, and all those "right wing extremists" go out into the suburbs to find their "victims", let me know. I'll be very interested in that kind of story.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @03:46PM (5 children)
If you don't consider NPR and PBS to be reliable sources, then I'm not going to read any further. Yes, like all sources they do have blind spots, but they're far better than most other sources of news available in the US.
(Score: 1, Troll) by hemocyanin on Monday October 12 2020, @06:41PM
I lost my respect for NPR and PBS during the Obama administration -- you know, they used to fairly criticize GWB for being a warmonger but then were total bootlickers toward Obama's warmongering.
In any event, they've totally jumped the shark at this point: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting [npr.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @08:14PM (1 child)
NPR and PBS used to be fine. Stories I actually knew about personally were no worse than would be expected from the lack of depth required by time constraints. They have been getting steadily worse over the years, however. After a while, the bits they left out of a story all went one way. Then they started flat out ignoring things that went against the narrative they were pushing. Then they started repeating known falsehoods, as long they supported the narrative. This last year they've moved to full blown activism instead of journalism. It's been a very sad decline. I no longer find any mainstream news, aside from possibly CSPAN, to have any credibility. These days, when they do get something correct, it coincidental instead of intentional.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 13 2020, @02:30PM
If you want real (-ish?) information, read data compiled by government agencies peopled by career bureaucrats who have no real political agenda apart from continuing to exist. We now know that we cannot even trust data compiled by once reputable organizations like the ACLU because all those have sacrificed their integrity to a partisan agenda.
If one must turn to media I would recommend choosing outlets from other countries that aren't quite so fervid. Al Jazeera can occasionally work. Glenn Greenwald's Intercept has been quite good; when you're stinging every side with the lash of your journalistic whip, you are doing that job faithfully.
If domestic media is an absolute must, use bloggers to pre-masticate and transmute some of the bile and putrescence of the mainstream media first. Survey a bunch of those, and you might get a shadow of what's actually going on.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2, Funny) by PartTimeZombie on Monday October 12 2020, @09:02PM (1 child)
Are you saying NPR and PBS are more reliable than Redstate.com and Breitbart? Surely not?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 13 2020, @07:06AM
None of those are more reliable that Zerohedge and Sputnik News! Geez Louise!
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by Tork on Monday October 12 2020, @04:07PM
Sorry but we don't have any pictures with captioned with catchy phrases that appeal to your biases.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @04:44PM (7 children)
Absolutely, utterly NOT forgiven. You can accuse them of bias, but accusing public media as unreliable is downright stupid. Not just foolish, stupid.
Then you're simply unaware of history, and ignorance is no excuse. Some of these "rioters" will have moved there from LA, where no-knocks in the 80s were famously violent and lethal. And LA is not the only US city where that was common.
(Score: 2, Troll) by hemocyanin on Monday October 12 2020, @06:49PM (6 children)
During the massive fires and smoke in the PNW -- which was horrible to live through -- I was driving home and listening to NPR. They noted that some dude in Portland was arrested seven times for arson. I was so fucking furious, because what happened was that the asshole started a fire with a molotov cocktail and confessed, and Mike Schmidt the moron DA of Portland let him go without bail. Within hours of his release, the asshole star six more fires and was again finally arrested.
So explain to me please, why would NPR be running cover for a moron DA too stupid to lock up an insane asshole starting fires with a molotov? Yes, NPR's report was factually true -- he did start seven fires -- but the staggering omission regarding how the DA enabled the last six of those fires, makes the story a total lie.
https://www.ibtimes.com/oregon-man-arrested-second-time-after-starting-6-brush-fires-3046100 [ibtimes.com]
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Tork on Tuesday October 13 2020, @10:13PM (5 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by hemocyanin on Wednesday October 14 2020, @05:25AM (4 children)
Are you joking? It is 100% true that, as NPR reported, the scumbag started 7 fires. But what you are saying is this: the fact that Mike Schmidt, the pro-Antifa Portland DA, released a confessed arsonist who used a molotov cocktail to commit arson -- during one of the worst smoke events in all of recorded history for the area -- is of no relevance and people would be indifferent to learn that the DA's actions directly lead to 6 more fires by the confessed firebombing arsonist in fewer than 24 hours post release. You apparently believe people don't care nor have a right to know, that public safety is treated in such a cavalier manner by government officials.
Any reporter who treats such a detail as extraneous is pushing an agenda. It is no wonder with such flagrant abuse of the truth and facts, that the media is so despised. They are earning every bit of their reputation.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Tork on Wednesday October 14 2020, @06:16AM (3 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by hemocyanin on Wednesday October 14 2020, @07:34AM (2 children)
You think a DA that lets violent criminals roam the streets is not news? It's like living in opposite world these days. What a fucking moron.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Tork on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:08PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @04:26PM
Oh right, cause anyone who has served their time will forever be condemned as "violent criminal" while the gov goes on genocidal campaigns fueled by lies and deception.
You are an awful person looking for any excuse for conservative fascism. LONG LIVE THE POLICE STATE!!!!
(Score: 2, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 12 2020, @03:24PM (2 children)
I just stumbled over this article - https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/paid-rioters-infiltrators-evident-in-cities-across-america/ [unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com]
Watch that first video at the link. I've made a distinction between BLM and Antifa. Maybe I haven't made a big enough distinction between "rioters" and "protesters". In that video, you see real rioters beating the shit out of cops. The protesters step in, and save the cop from potentially being killed.
But, read the article. It is enlightening. And, stay away from the riots. Protesters of all stripes are being used.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @04:52PM
...wtf? Did you read that article? It says things like:
Uuuuh if all the DemonRats or whatever you want to call them get COVID-19, that suddenly EVERY BODY ELSE has a dramatically higher risk, because the population has a huge explosion of cases.
Thinking "let the dems get COVID" is evil; suggesting that providing free masks is against society's benefit is so illogical that it hurts.
I wasted my time watching that video. A cop pulls a guy by his hair to the ground, a melee ensues, and no surprise some people get amped and want to fight, and some cooler or wiser heads reduce the violence. That's not fucking protestors saving cops from rioters. That's a fucking fight, in which only some people - notably not police! - use force to pry fighters apart.
Just... I don't know. Maybe I'll have to stop reading what you write. Shame. But this intellectual dishonesty would make me drop you as a RL friend, if we knew each other. I can't be with someone who points to water and says "dry!" or who points at a red stoplight and says "go!"
(Score: 4, Informative) by helel on Monday October 12 2020, @06:04PM
Are you really getting your news from a clothing store? That's ... interesting.
Still, from your article, this is exactly what I'm talking about. They say "At least 3 are dead, businesses looted and destroyed by fire, and dozens of people injured so far." and ignore the fact that those three are protesters, that the fires were started by police flash bangs, and that the dozens injured are once again protesters. Protesters are being assaulted and killed and right-wing media tries to spin it like the protesters are the one's being violent.
And paid protesters? [snopes.com] Why do we have to endure this same stupid theory again and again?
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fakefuck39 on Monday October 12 2020, @11:21PM (1 child)
not going to check those two examples for truth - don't need to. the protesters aren't fighting police. they set off fireworks at the police, in the process raining down fire on residential homes. they've destroyed peoples' places of work and personal vehicles - nothing to do with police. it's literally criminals attacking people. and btw, standing in the roadway is also not peaceful. This is why we have a "walk" signal on the traffic lights.
this isn't a political thing. politics is something people think about after their personal safety and well-being. the guy unable to drive home from his destroyed workplace, risking his house with his kids being burned down. republican, democrat, or anarchist, he's worried about his family being alive and having a job to feed them. he's not thinking about ballots lol - he's getting a gun and shooting the criminals attacking him.
(Score: 2) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @12:23AM
Destroying peoples vehicles? Sounds like cops. [snopes.com]
Destroying peoples places of work? Sounds like cops. [boxden.com]
Yes, this is a political thing. We want the police to be held accountable when they break the law. It is that simple. The fact that the police response has been to break the law [opb.org] at every turn just drives the point home that we need legal reform.
Don't take my word for it. Head on down to the nearest protests and just sit on the sidelines. Watch. See who fires the first CS canister or cracks the first skull on the sidewalk [youtube.com].
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 13 2020, @08:13PM
good. i hope the pigs and the "anti-racists"/bolsheviks' useful idiots kill each other, and if these race traitors block the road when i'm traveling i'm going GTA on their asses.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @04:40PM (12 children)
If laser pointers pointed into people's eyes gets you marked as a terrorist, that's some awful news for danceclub lighting technicians.
Look, I think you haven't been in a real riot. In a real riot, shit goes down. It's worse than a mosh pit, but better than a big bar melee.
You're conflating "angsty teenagers throw rocks" with rioting. Angsty teenagers throw rocks anyways. I have had windows broken for absolutely no good - or at least, no identifiable - reason. Those weren't rioters either.
If a minority of 'bad' violent cops don't mean we should stop all policing, a few 'bad' violent protestors shouldn't mean we stop all protesting.
Surely if you see how ACAB is false, you must see how All Protestors Are Rioters is wrong.
Get down to earth, man. I used to appreciate your contributions here. Now you're getting so polarized that instead of looking forward to reading your posts with anticipation, it's with creeping dread. Come on. You're an adult. You've got a brain. Please, for the sake of our community, at least engage it here in a more critical way.
I expect hop-ons to criticize and say you're not reformable, but I remember the old runaway, who had interesting (if sometimes kinda old-man) stories and life experience, and a perspective I valued. Please, I literally beg you, try to return to that. It hurts to have a person I respected and wanted to hear more from 'turn' like this.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @08:17PM
Laser pointers can easily cause permanent blindness, you know. There's a reason pointing them at airplanes is a crime.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Monday October 12 2020, @08:28PM (10 children)
They use cheap green lasers that emit a lot of invisible IR and remove any IR filters. These types of lasers absolutely cause serious harm: https://www.newsweek.com/lapd-officer-blinded-laser-weapon-concern-police-1531335 [newsweek.com]
This is not often reported by DNCallied press because any report showing Antifa to be violent scum is anti-narrative.
(Score: 2) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @12:32AM (9 children)
What does a cop getting jumped on a routine call have to do with the protesters? Do we also blame "Antifa" when cops shoot each other [foxnews.com]?
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @12:45AM (8 children)
If you are trying to tell me that the rioters are not using cheap Chinese lasers that leak IR, and even going so far as intentionally removing IR filters to make them more damaging, then you are spreading agenda driven falsehood. Don't be an ass.
https://imgur.com/VHzIUTt [imgur.com]
https://twitter.com/seattleYLF [twitter.com]
https://nypost.com/2020/08/04/federal-officers-in-portland-suffered-113-eye-injuries-from-lasers-dhs/ [nypost.com]
(Score: 2) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @01:07AM (7 children)
According to your article there have been 113 instances of flash blindness, all fully recovered. That would indicate that the laser pointers were off-the-shelf, not weaponized. I wonder how many protesters have suffers flash blindness from the ordinance deployed by police [seattletimes.com]?
The protesters are using unmodified laser pointers and shields to defend themselves from the violent assault by police they endure day after day after day. If the police didn't want to get a little flash blindness they could comply with their orders and stop using CS canisters [opb.org] or, in the case of the federal police, get the heck out of town [thehill.com].
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @03:03AM (6 children)
The rioting fascist illiberal violent bullying assholes, which you call protestors, are very much trying to create harm. Or perhaps you do not comprehend this link: https://imgur.com/VHzIUTt [imgur.com]
(Score: 2) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @03:58AM (5 children)
That is clearly a joke.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @07:45AM (4 children)
These "jokes" have been turning my part of the world into chaos for almost half a year now. I get that it is against narrative to admit that these people are dangerous violent walking garbage, much like some on the far right in the 90s, but that is what they are.
(Score: 3, Touché) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @03:36PM (3 children)
Why are conservatives always such snowflakes?
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @05:37PM (2 children)
I'm not a conservative and I despise authoritarian despotic behavior. Antifa/BLM seek to enforce their twisted worldview through violence -- physical and economic violence. That makes them authoritarian and thus I despise these groups -- they are the epitome of scum, destroyers, the seeds from which every genocidal regime has ever sprouted. Not the fake-ass crap like "Trump is a literal Nazi did you see that tweet OMG" -- but real world objective Nazis, or the likes of Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao -- the types with millions upon millions of skeletons under their feet. Authoritarians are sewage. Every single fucking one of them right down to the window licking morons breaking windows, throwing bombs, shooting people, defacing public and private property, harassing and injuring people. It's like Krystalnacht in Portland every fucking night.
I'm no flag waving love-it-or-leave-it type, but at the point where one side disengages from rational discussion and uses violence to pursue its goals, they have demonstrated themselves to be A) incompetent and B) dangerous to civil society (B is so obvious it's a truism).
(Score: 4, Informative) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @07:19PM
As I said in another post The [oregonlive.com] people [twitter.com] being [oregonlive.com] beaten [kgw.com] are [tmz.com] protesters [time.com].
The people being killed [theguardian.com] are protesters [desmoinesregister.com].
Have some protesters used unmodified laser pointers to blind the people shooting at them? Yes. They are defending their lives. The fact that they take precautions to protect their bodies does not for one second mean they are despotic authoritarians. It just means the people they are talking to are dangerous, having injured many many protesters and even killed a few.
If you truly despise despots, if you want to protect America from authoritarians, you need to look at which side of the political spectrum is using violence to suppress their opposition [wikipedia.org].
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @04:30PM
The rioting and looting have caused relatively little harm and are being hyped up like crazy by authoritarian Republican outlets who desire despotic behavior. It is beyond frustrating to have you complain about such behavior then immediately swallow the most incredible propaganda like it is verified fact. With all the bullshit and lies in the last 4 years you still fall for it. On the other hand, you never want to engage with the rightwing domestic terrorist stories or the rightwing government fascism attacking people for exercising their constitutional rights.
Sooooooo yaaaaaaaa
Kinda hard to give a shit about your little part of the world sitting terrified as you clutch your pearls. No one is coming for you ya big chowder head.
(Score: 2, Informative) by hemocyanin on Monday October 12 2020, @06:26PM
You forgot literal murder.
You know, the guy who was caught illegally concealing a gun and drugs in June, let go, caught again illegally concealing a gun at a riot in July, let go, and then stalked and murdered a man in August because he disagreed with his political views.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Aaron_Danielson_and_Michael_Reinoehl#Michael_Forest_Reinoehl [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @07:41AM (3 children)
I guess the media you pay attention skipped over the part where the plotters are anarchists. This is Brandon Caserta: https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1314326099162206208/pu/vid/886x488/8wOrlMStzpoS5GVM.mp4?tag=10 [twimg.com]
Also: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=brandon+caserta&t=lm&atb=v211-1&iax=images&ia=images [duckduckgo.com]
I wonder, do those who hang the anarchy flag trend MAGA, or is it just counter narrative for the media to report? Wouldn't want to get in the way of the "peaceful antifa/BLM" propaganda now would we?
(Score: 1, Troll) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday October 13 2020, @04:01PM (2 children)
It's the far right who loves guns and worships the 2nd Amendment most fervently.
It's the far right who is the least principled and most violent. They are the most ready and likely to lie, cheat, bully, and threaten to get their way. That, and following through with murder, has been the modus operandi of the KKK since their beginning. They've assassinated civil rights leaders, bombed churches, and lynched people in broad daylight.
The Unite the Right rally of 2017, to "defend" monuments to slavery and racial oppression, ended with one murder, and it was the far right that did it.
Admit it. Violence from unions and other arguably leftist groups doesn't come close to what the KKK and other far right groups and individuals have done. Yes, I find quite credible reports that the far right is indulging in vandalism and looting during leftist protesting.
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @06:26PM
"It's only property" -- In Defense of Looting -- but also "only right wingers are doing it."
I get it. Your agenda is paramount -- paramount even over the obvious truth. You are the type who with a different political bent, would justify and lionize Timothy McVeigh, and honestly, it's only a matter of time before we get the regressive left version.
Courtesy the John Brown Gun Club: https://youtu.be/f8VrIJy7AU4?t=51 [youtu.be] Upper left -- they shoot the car, it crashes, they shoot it some more. All of this is with rifles as anyone familiar with a range of firearms can instantly recognize, then "oh you're not dead yet -- wanna get pistol whipped? POP". That pop is a pistol -- the report is a lower tone and quieter. Here's the white supremacists they killed and wounded that night: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-dead-one-injured-shooting-near-seattle-s-capitol-hill-n1232390 [nbcnews.com]
"James Madison" of the JBGC attempting to destroying evidence that night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1enrcPRU5E [youtube.com] The BGC doing surveillance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1KgsiBqOEI [youtube.com]
I'm so totally sure the John Brown Gun Clup is a cabal of right wingers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puget_Sound_John_Brown_Gun_Club [wikipedia.org] (note one infamous member: Willem van Spronsen. From his manifesto contained in full at: "https://itsgoingdown.org/on-williem-van-spronsen/
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 13 2020, @08:18PM
"The Unite the Right rally of 2017, to "defend" monuments to slavery and racial oppression, ended with one murder, and it was the far right that did it."
That fat bitch was not murdered. She had a heart attack when she fell over out of fright and physical exhaustion (and drugs?). The guy driving the car was escaping an attack by a mob. Perfectly justified. The "anti-racist" protesters should have all been shot anyways. Fuck those race traitors.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 12 2020, @11:25AM (24 children)
I guess everyone knows that I have no sympathy for these p̶r̶o̶t̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶s̶ rioters. But, that isn't the issue here. The FBI is supposed to do things lawfully, right?
They should have obtained warrants. So, the assholes in Portland may or may not issue warrants to search protester's phones - no problem. Any and all protesters who damage or attempt to damage the Federal building are easily charged under federal law. Any and all protesters who assault a federal officer are easily charged under federal law. Dozens of PPD officers have been deputized as federal officers, so much the better. Any and all protesters who assault a deputized PPD officer can be charged under federal law.
Fekkin' FBI should have obtained FEDERAL warrants to search each suspect's phone and/or to "exploit" said phones.
There's a serious problem when they use "counterterrorism" agents against domestic rioters. Those agents need to shift mental gears, and understand that even rioters have rights. A search without a warrant amounts to unreasonable search and seizure. We all pretty much understand that - why don't they?
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday October 12 2020, @12:45PM (4 children)
> A search without a warrant amounts to unreasonable search and seizure.
In the engadget article, this was linked:
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/10/08/the-fbi-team-sent-to-exploit-protesters-phones-in-portland/ [nybooks.com]
Claim is (IANAL)
> "Among the special powers granted exclusively to the FBI ... are authorizations to conduct “unconsented physical searches” and “physical surveillance”
> for intelligence purposes in the US ... there is an exception [to the 4th Amendment] for “exigent circumstances,” which is supposed to apply only to
> extreme situations in which lives are in danger.
There is a lot of noise but not much substance in the rest of the article.
So it is all legal?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @02:44PM (2 children)
There's more nuance to the above than you're allowing for.
The situations where *any* Federal agent can *legally* do such things is heavily restricted and *requires* prior approval from department heads and/or the Attorney General's office, as well as other conditions which must be met.
So yes, it is all legal, but it's not all legal in all circumstances. As for the stuff that went down in Portland, it's still unclear if those federal agents had appropriate authorization.
Whether or not such rules are appropriate is a different question. I think not, but I'm not the Attorney General.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @03:47PM (1 child)
I think everyone is caught up in legalism and forensics details and missing the simple core principle: if any law enforcement official sees lawbreaking, he/she has a duty to take any and all actions to 1) stop the lawbreaker(s), and 2) gather evidence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 13 2020, @02:08AM
There. FTFY.
The ends do not justify the means.
I noted GP's lack of nuance in one direction. Now I point out yours in the other.
Activities such as warrantless searches and using the results of those searches to create lists of others to do the same is *not legal* except in very specific situations.
And the *very few* situations where it is (mostly exigent circumstances [wikipedia.org]) don't appear to have been present in this case.
I don't know all the details of who may or may not have approved this activity, but *that* should be investigated fully to ensure that the law was followed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @02:52PM
Kindof ironic posting that here, since the FBI uses SN as a honeypot.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @12:52PM
It's not clear what the threat was. (Protest/riot/terror) =(Sure/likely a bit/not unless you seriously lower the bar for some reason)
It's not clear what 'exploit' means.
Could be physically connecting to siezed phones.
Could be something over the air, with or without the cooperation of the cell provider.
They both should be a warrant situation if the worst you are dealing with is a bit of rioting.
If you send folks who are focused on fighting serious threats, it is going to be hard for them to shift gears to minor stuff.
One hopes they showed up, sized up the situation and decided their cool toys were mostly inapproiate for the situation.
That would be seem the profesional versus cowboy move.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday October 12 2020, @02:17PM
Anybody who is serving the public should be fully accountable in their actions. Record it all, let a grand jury sort it out.
TIATA - Transparency Is Always The Answer
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/24/7408365/
(Score: 5, Insightful) by requerdanos on Monday October 12 2020, @02:36PM (8 children)
If you are out there protesting, you aren't working to cause property damage.
If you are out there to cause property damage, you're a rioter.
There may be a fine line between civil protest and rioting if there are protesters at your riot, or rioters at your protest, but that line is still reasonably well-defined. Rioter is as rioter does, protester is as protestor does.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Common Joe on Monday October 12 2020, @03:23PM (7 children)
Fully agree. "Us-vs-them" is a wide spread problem in the US right now and it breeds extremism. This mentality is going to bite us in the ass hard. Everyone needs to make it a priority to find common ground between "us" and the "those people we don't like".
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by hemocyanin on Monday October 12 2020, @06:31PM (6 children)
There is only one side in the current atmosphere that won't even have a discussion. This manifests itself in the way even political leaders encourage people to mob and cancel diners, the way people on one side attack speakers with and venues with physical violence, cancel culture -- all that sort of stuff. Discussion requires participation of both parties and currently, the regressive left is 100% opposed to that.
(Score: 2) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @12:52AM (5 children)
Look, I absolutely hate cancel culture to. Even at the best of times it's a form of vigilante justice.
However, there is a big difference between whiny SJW's ruining a career and murder [cnn.com]. It is routinely the right that launch terrorist attacks [wikipedia.org] on their opponents. Heck, it's even right wingers who like to ambush and kill cops [latimes.com].
The left is not 100% opposed to discussion - on a society wide level the protests are a discussion. If you think police should be allowed to murder citizens with impunity don't pretend the protesters are bad somehow or deny reality, just come out and state your stance plainly. Anything else only hiders our ability to have a discussion about what where we are going.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @07:54AM (4 children)
The left is 100% opposed to discussion ever since it took up the psuedointellectual claptrap about words being violence and began violently opposing anyone with any view it opposed.
I leave you with this, and it's your fault if you support or run flak for these cretins. You are complicit in this "discussion".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeAC3nYK7xc [youtube.com]
(Score: 1, Troll) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @02:31PM (3 children)
So a BLM protester was killed by someone who, from all I can find, was not part of the protest and that's your proof the left is unwilling to talk? I guess this is the death you'd want to bring up since at least Parker Marlin Voss isn't part of any right wing militia or the like.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by hemocyanin on Tuesday October 13 2020, @05:17PM (2 children)
Do you have comprehension issues? She says over and over it was a protestor that killed her sister.
(Score: 1, Troll) by helel on Tuesday October 13 2020, @05:31PM (1 child)
She was not a witness and recorded that video the same night she heard the news, ie before anyone knew what had happened. The police investigated the crime and have arrested Parker Marlin Belz for Italia's murder [qctimes.com]. Nothing I found suggested he was a member of the protest while, by contrast, Italia was.
Did you seriously not even google to see who pulled the trigger before posting the link?
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 14 2020, @04:33PM
Thanks for fact checking, seems fewer and fewer people around here have the patience left to deal with the constant barrage of bullshit that circulates the net. Crazy how hard it is to find good sources of information and how easy it is to find bullshit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @03:40PM (3 children)
This whole thing is clouded up in details. Police, including FBI, do NOT need warrants when they observe law-breaking.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 12 2020, @05:18PM (2 children)
I think that you are in error. If a cop observes you breaking the law, he has the authority to arrest you. Being arrested doesn't give the cops the authority to search ANYTHING that belongs to you. Your house, your business, your car, your phone - none of them should be searched without a warrant.
The scenario would be, cop sees you - I dunno, shoplift a candy bar. He arrests you. You go to the jailhouse, your stuff is taken from you, locked up. The cop wants to search your phone, so he goes after a warrant. The judge wants to know how the phone is pertinent to a petty crime of shoplifting. Cop says "Well I witnessed him commit a crime, I want to do some phishing to see what other crimes I can charge him with." Any decent judge is going to tell the cop to get bent. The phone is not relevant to stealing a candy bar.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @08:54PM (1 child)
How about I arrested three for stealing candy bars.
I want to look at their phones to see if they were working together so I can go for conspiracy to eat?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 12 2020, @09:41PM
If you can convince the judge, then you get your warrant. If the judge still says to get bent, then you get bent.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Monday October 12 2020, @11:30PM (3 children)
they did do everything lawfully. they only did this shit to the phones of people who were arrested. Police are allowed to search people after they have been arrested, and are allowed to tag them. If they see a guy burn down a car, they have the right to take his phone and try to hack it or unlock it, just like they're allowed to put a gps tracker on him. A warrant for that is needed before an arrest, not after the arrest.
Tell me, if a cop sees you shoot someone, then you put your gun in your pocket, zip it up, and put a padlock on the pocket - you think the cop needs a warrant to rip off the lock and grab your gun?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday October 12 2020, @11:41PM (2 children)
If I used my phone to shoot someone, I could understand the need to secure the phone. Ditto with the gun that's still smoking hot in my pocket. Padlocks on pockets? Are you making some kind of fashion statement, or are you using it to club someone to death?
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Monday October 12 2020, @11:58PM (1 child)
no, I'm giving an example that you're avoiding to address, because it proves your point wrong. If the police see you shooting someone, and you have a pocket with a lock, or a locked car, they can search your car and locked pocket without needing a warrant. Do you seriously not understand the difference between the need for a warrant before you're arrested, and after you have been officially arrested for a crime? Anything you have can be searched and fucked with after you have been arrested. Your defense from false arrest is then it being inadmissible in court, if the arrest was indeed false.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 13 2020, @12:36AM
Yes, I do understand the difference.
Fifteen cops and thirty bystanders witness me shoot someone dead, for whatever reason. Maybe justifiable, maybe not, that doesn't matter for purposes of this discussion. We can agree that there is a need for the police to secure my person, and to secure my weapon. That does NOT automagically give them authority to kick the door down in my home, and to trash the house, to shoot my dog, terrorize my wife and kids. Nor do they gain the authority to do the same at my place of business, whether that business be an employee of an auto shop, or as the owner of a law firm. Nor do they gain the authority to search the car parked on the town square, or the truck behind my home, or the motorcycle parked behind my brother's house. And, I am in agreement with EFF and others that electronic devices are worthy of the same protections that my home, my business, and my vehicles enjoy.
We're not even talking those crazy psycho scenarios where a terrorist bomber has the codes to disarm a bomb that is set to go off in thirty minutes here. You're talking about a rather common scenario, in which the suspect is in custody. He ain't going nowhere. His phone isn't going anywhere. There is plenty of time to talk to a judge. "Your honor, this guy just shot a guy dead, we want to search his phone for possible evidence that he planned the murder." The judge gets the opportunity to review the evidence, and to grant or to deny the warrant.
The cops may be perfectly justified in searching ALL of my property. If they are justified, they lose nothing in asking a judge for a judicial review of their reasoning. If they are NOT justified, the judge can tell them so. Or, the judge may grant part of their request - yeah, search the phone, the car on the town square, and the motorcycle - but you haven't made the case to search his home or his office.
Almost always, time is on the cop's side. The suspect, sitting in jail, awaiting a bond hearing, is completely powerless. He isn't going to clean the car, wipe records, throw the gun in the river, or much of anything else. The cops can take their time to cross their Ts and dot their is. If they don't do so, I may just get away with a heinous crime on a stupid technicality.
Hail to the Nibbler in Chief.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 12 2020, @05:22PM
Civil Disobedience? Is that what we're calling the looting, rioting, burning, assaults and murder? Cute.
All of these rioting groups, left or right are domestic terrorists and should be dealt with as such.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Username on Tuesday October 13 2020, @01:29AM
Remember ruby ridge and waco? I do. FBI has done some really nasty things, and this isn't one of them. This was an information gathering mission on suspected domestic terrorists. It's not a logic leap to consider a planned long term siege of a police building and courthouse as an act of domestic terrorism. Now, months later, FBI are showing up to their moms' basements and arresting them. That's what they should be doing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 13 2020, @08:07AM
NOT!