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If you bring up UBI, or other reforms, you'll inevitably get someone who brings up: "voting yourself someone else's money".
You could convince me, except that things have gotten to an absurd state.
I look at some graphs of wealth inequality and it is unimaginably shocking. I never dreamed it could be this bad. More than 50% of the US wealth is owned by 5% of the people. [1] 35% is owned by only 1% of the population.
This image from this article also tells the story.
I'm not going to argue how accurate those numbers are. Rather, I will extrapolate the trend.
Let's continue the current trend to its logical absurd conclusion. The entire planet is owned by one single person. You (and everyone else) are one of the wage slaves in the bottom 99.99999999 % of the population (at least 8 decimal places). [7.5 billion people, minus that one person who owns everything, then divided by 7.5 billion people.]
Naturally, we should respect property ownership. Somehow this one person deserves and "earned" the wealth of the entire planet through his hard and diligent efforts and deserves to own everything and everyone. It is absurd on its face.
At this logical endpoint, it clearly seems that the rest of the planet should seize the wealth of the one person.
Wealth transfer has already happened. And is still happening. Republicans are just fine with this as long as it is all trickling upward.
Yes, "voting yourself someone else's money" involves taking away some of the absurd amounts of wealth hoarded up by a few. Amounts of individual wealth that one person couldn't spend in a lifetime; then leaves to others, who themselves can't spend it in their lifetime.
Not as a proposal, but just to make a point, hypothetically, if all of these people who exceed this threshold had their net worth capped at $100 Million, they would still be just fine. Yes, really! They would still live in fabulous homes, drive fabulous cars, and eat whatever they wanted, travel wherever and whenever they wanted -- for the rest of their natural lives.
In case my "one man owns the world" didn't get the idea across, I'll be more blunt. Any time too few people have owned way, way too much, and too many had nothing, there is always an uprising. I'm not proposing an uprising. I'm merely warning it is inevitable. Hopefully not in my lifetime. Maybe it would be better to solve this peacefully where the wealthiest, while heavily taxed, still end up, after taxes, fabulously wealthy beyond the dreams of most everyone else. I'm not proposing reducing all the rich people's wealth to some cap. Just that they should pay their fair share. Why are they the ones who get the tax cuts?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 27 2020, @10:52PM (7 children)
No, it does not.
Those few have enough wealth to control the policymakers; the very process of hyperconcentration of wealth is driven by that. Those few, not any TV-programmed "voters", will be deciding whose money gets taken and what share of the spoils will go into their own coffers, and what pittance is thrown to the unwashed crowd.
As per the jungle law, those with the least power, i.e. the (ex-)middle class, will be robbed, and those with the most, will concentrate even more wealth.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 28 2020, @04:06AM (6 children)
And that's been the catch-22 of politics ever since democracies caught on. The most efficient path for the politician is always to give the masses lip service, while selling them out. The more action is demanded, the more action is taken to the detriment of the general good.
"As per the jungle law, those with the least power, i.e. the (ex-)middle class, will be robbed, and those with the most, will concentrate even more wealth."
Ah yes.
But there are other jungle laws too.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 28 2020, @05:35AM (5 children)
Actually, that sort of corruption didn't start with democracies. A wealthy merchant, or a representative of a wealthy clique, could always influence a despot, a king, an emperor, a dictator, or whoever held power. Money has talked since the very first currency was created, if not before then. Even in the days of barter, a "gift" of ten prize goats would gain a lot of good will from whoever was running things.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 28 2020, @05:52AM (4 children)
Possible? Sure.
Very dangerous though. When a king owes you.
Maybe he's a good king, a good friend. Ok. It's a lot of money still. Maybe it takes 2, 3 generations to pay off.
You think his grandkid is going to happily pay your son interest? You think he might just prefer to proclaim him a traitor and seize his lands instead?
Yeah, that's shit that happened. A lot.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 28 2020, @06:04AM (2 children)
Aren't you describing today's market? The "kings" on Wall Street are still seizing land, homes, and possessions when they get tired of paying and/or losing interest.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 28 2020, @06:09AM
Not exactly, but I was drawing the parallel.
I have no desire to take anyone's property. I am quite skeptical of some claims to property, however.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 29 2020, @03:45AM
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 30 2020, @01:16PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 27 2020, @10:53PM (1 child)
Have you NOTICED that in recent years it gets COLDER in late fall and winter than in the rest of the year? ALL the REPUBLICANS I know DENY this.
(Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:08PM
Since you bring it up, I have noticed this pattern over more than a few decades of life
It can even be measured and recorded.
There is another pattern that can be correlated to this. You might notice that in the Northern hemisphere, the sun rises and sets further to the south a couple months before the cold sets in. The days get shorter. Nights longer.
Again all of this is scientifically measurable. And scientific conclusion can be drawn from these measured facts.
Based on the pattern, it is quite obvious that it gets colder in winter because the sun moves south for the winter. When asked why? I would simply point out that the sun moves south for winter for the same reason that birds go south for the winter -- because it's warmer in the south during winter. See: Southern Hemisphere. Australia Christmas hottest day of the year.
In other news:
Trump's campaign website hacked [axios.com]
When Lucifer was cast out of heaven down to Earth, theologians debate whether he landed in Florida or Texas.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 27 2020, @10:58PM (39 children)
There has been a common "meme" I guess you could call it for years now. 1000 people control some outrageous percentage of the world's wealth.
How about a mere 8 men who control half of the world's wealth?
https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/meet-the-8-men-who-control-half-the-worlds-wealth.html [inc.com]
Now, while people are digesting that, I need to remind everyone that the poorest person in America seems fabulously wealthy to millions of people in Africa, and millions more in Asia, and millions more in South America. Nations where people actually starve to death look at us, and think we live in paradise.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:09PM (37 children)
Fallacy of relative privation. In a developed nation with as much wealth as we have, NO ONE should be having trouble getting food. And I mean *food,* not processed foil-wrapped packets of high-fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated palm oil slathered onto compressed potato dust.
I have been homeless and destitute enough to have to eat from trash cans, and this when I do not and never did drink, smoke, gamble, do drugs, etc; it came entirely from just being fucking poor. So to hear this shit from you really rankles. I am hoping this new SCOTUS "justice" blows away all the programs people your age and older rely on, so you can have a taste--pardon the choice of words!--of this sort of thing. It would serve you precisely right, and after all, it would only be a consequence of you getting your supposed "originalist" (you gullible fucking rube...) on the Court!
The fallacy of relative privation I mentioned above, explicitly spelled out, is "if anyone else anywhere any*when* ever had it worse than you, you don't get to complain." It's complete bullshit, and I think somewhere deep down a little part of even *you* knows it's complete bullshit. Pull the jackboot out of your mouth, open your eyes, and get wise to what's been happening in this country since Reagan was elected.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:25PM (7 children)
Classy. Social programs and shelters exist, the problem with long term homelessness is not lack of social provision but lack of mental health provision. [twitter.com] UBI will not help those who will spend it on drugs.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:44PM (1 child)
I can state that those social programs almost universally suck ass. They are almost all aimed at women with children. A healthy adult with no children doesn't get shit. An unhealthy adult without children might get something, if they meet very narrow criteria so that one program or another covers them. If you're female with 9 kids, you're good to go, and government will give you a couple more dollars for kid number 10. A person temporarily down on their luck ain't gonna get shit in most states.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @01:56AM
Poor Runaway! Not only beaten up by sixteen cops, but denied welfare benefits because he was a shiftless able-bodied male! So unfair!!! Trumpian levels of unfairness!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:47PM (1 child)
And thank Goddess the shelter DID exist. If I had not found it beforehand (sometimes you can see these things coming) I'd likely be dead.
Know the kicker, though? I was working full-time the entire time. And the woman at the transition-from-homelessness office told me, to my face, that 20K a year was "too rich" for any sort of assistance. I hope there is a special Hell for that kind of person, and I hope the stay in Hell is followed up by a reincarnation into somewhere like Somalia.
Working. Full-time. And homeless. That moment, then and there, was when I finally gave completely up on this country. A sober, clean, intelligent, productive working woman should never, EVER lack for shelter or food. This country is a bad joke and I'm not fucking laughing.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Redundant) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @01:18AM
This was while you were in New York City, right? I hate one-size-fits-all programs. It might have been a good threshold for rural New York in their part of the Rust Belt.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:53AM (2 children)
I've been homeless too, and Azuma is 100% correct.
Don't go on about programs and shelters until you've had all your worldly belongings stolen from you while you slept, gotten the crap kicked out of you or raped in one of those "shelters." Which is why i stayed far away from those dangerous places when I was homeless.
The way homeless folks are treated in the US is shameful and cruel. Unless you've been on the other side of that, don't presume to know what it's like. You have no clue.
Having been there myself, what I have to say to selfish, oblivious scum like you is "Fuck you."
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:20PM (1 child)
Why would we make homelessness easy or incentivize it - you got a wake-up call did you not?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 30 2020, @01:18PM
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:28PM (26 children)
You've been at the bottom. Did you pull yourself off the bottom, and rise toward the top? Feels good, doesn't it? You're no longer the bottom most link on the food chain.
Would you deprive others of that good feeling? That sense of accomplishment? The knowledge that you genuinely DESERVE your place, your home, your food, your possessions, because you EARNED them?
But, that "relative privation" thing, as you call it. It's applicable. If your belly is full, you're clothed and sheltered reasonably comfortably, and you've got a few toys to play with - you have little to complain about.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:44PM (1 child)
You can get that sense of accomplishment in a thousand different ways that have nothing to do with working. That's just the old "Protestant work ethic" bullshit that gets thrown around like being a compliant slave is a desirable trait.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @01:38AM
You can, but you probably won't. The same thing robbing you of said sense of accomplishment here, probably will do the same for any other activity you manage.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:50PM (22 children)
What the AC said. God...*damn,* you just insist on doubling down on your complete sociopathy, don't you? And as a consequence of said sociopathy you don't even realize how fucking evil the things you say are.
Once again: I hope your shiny new "originalist" (hah!) SCOTUS destroys every single social program people your age rely on right out from under you. You can spend the last 5 years of your life or so sleeping under a bridge scrounging for food in dumpsters. Maybe you'll finally fucking get it through your head right before you die...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:05AM (2 children)
What the AC said is bullshit. I suspect that the AC in question is one who is obsessed with me, and follows me around like a good little doggie.
Most people who "get it through their heads" tend to die soon after. Please don't threaten me with assassination like that.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:13AM
Shut your pie hole you sociopathic dimwit. The country has woken up, fools like keep supporting fascist oppression with lame ideology that has been proven harmful over and over.
Hop on that B ark, I hear it is taking you to magadise.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:00AM
Nobody is obsessed with you, Runaway, they are just revolted by you! You are so stupid, so racist, so classist, so Fox Newsy! You are wrong on everything you opine on, but still feel the need to tell us all about it? Please, cease and desist. You may die soon, given your demographic and level of stupidity. Try to do so with some shred of dignity.
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @01:43AM (13 children)
This shows the weakness of your narrative. Once again, you're hoping bad things happen to your critics because otherwise, you got nothing, well except ineffectual hoping.
Well, I hope something good happens to you. I hope you get a clue!
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:18AM (12 children)
That's rich coming from you. Back it up and pack it in, Hallow, you're *done.* Everyone has seen what bad faith you argue in and you have slightly less credibility than Mike Hudson at this point...and he makes more economic sense than you even in the midst of a psychotic episode.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:27AM (11 children)
We've had this discussion before about my imaginary "bad faith". It's the same every time. You never can mention a single real world example of it and why it's supposed to be bad faith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:24AM
I think we have found khallow's problem.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:47AM (3 children)
Exqueeze me? Baking powder?
That sounds sociopathic, which matches your approach to human civilization.
Azuma was replying to Runaway's politics which harms the most vulnerable people under the guise of the prosperity gospel, where rich is equated with good, power with righteousness.
Your entire contribution to the argument was
You ignore the reality of people in need, people actively able and willing to WORK, and you pretend they don't deserve help. They don't deserve the opportunity to do the best they can with their lives, because some people would rather have a few more gold coins in their vault.
Top kek trying to preemptively mount the high road after yet another bout of intellectual failure by doing exactly what you accuse Azuma of doing. At least she had a real point, old people tend to forget how many of their friends and family rely on medicare.
Wrapping up -
So you didn't understand Azuma's point, brought in some petty insults, and declared yourself winner. -.- ;
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @04:32AM (2 children)
I see two things here. First, you drop down into yet another irrelevant narrative just like Azuma does. In a post, we ignore a billion irrelevant realities because we can't say everything about everything. Second, you too ignore the reality of the same list of shit you just scolded me on, because you too can't say everything about everything.
No I didn't. That was the point. As to her point, she didn't have one. It's the usual say something when you have nothing to say garbage. Just like you did here. Finally, since the rest of your post isn't worth bothering with:
Your inability to perceive is not my sociopathy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @10:29PM (1 child)
Said better than I could
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=40308&page=1&cid=1070118#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
You are not worth arguing with, the only response is always "no because muh dumb points"
Why argue with true believers? Really no point in it when verifialke reality is ignored in favor of fake news bullshit.
To draw a comparison, Loyder with Crowder did a podcast on some glacier expanding and declared "checkmate libs" while totally ignoring the global trend of ice loss. Cherry picked examples is all you have left because reality is asserting itself. You are free to be a crowder head here on SN, but you should expect to be mocked mercilessly for such bullshit tactics and bad faith arguing.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 29 2020, @01:39PM
In other words, you have nothing to say, but you have to say it anyway. Those "muh dumb points" are why I believe what I believe. I'm not going to change my mind just because you've noticed that I have reasons for my beliefs.
You haven't addressed them then, and continue not to address them now, leading to lack of change in "muh dumb points". What's the point of complaining that someone doesn't agree when there's no reason for them to agree with you?
So what? Remarks that boil down to "muh dumb points" or (as in the above linked post) "I haven't placed any argument before you this time." aren't criticism that will stick. They are noise. I would start with the observation that there is more than one glacier and go from there (# glaciers that are advancing versus # of glaciers that are retreating).
I use cherry picked examples when someone makes universal statements. It shows those statements are false. That's how logic works. If someone were to say "all glaciers are retreating", which is the sort of universal statement, then noting that some glaciers aren't is a valid point though it may not be enough to reverse the argument. If they say "most glaciers are retreating", then cherry picking glaciers that are retreating doesn't affect the argument.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 28 2020, @09:47AM (5 children)
Please, you have your head so far up your own ass you can taste that cheeseburger your grandpa ate at the 1972 Memorial Day cookout. And now even random-ass ACs (WHY won't these people register? I don't have enough mod points to bump insightul comments up from far enough!) are dissecting your bullshit piece by piece.
Refusing to understand something doesn't make it wrong, any more than locking yourself in a windowless basement and scribbling "darkness" on the walls in your own shit can blow out the sun. And make no mistake, Hallow, what you are doing is exactly the mental equivalent of locking yourself in your own basement (your skull) and fingerpainting the walls with your own excrement.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:25PM (4 children)
Because then they'd be on record and have a record I could contest. Anonymous accusations are easy to defend. Nobody knows who made them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @04:56PM (3 children)
Not the AC you have been jousting with (or trying to joust with in your own typically palsied sort of a way), but I always post as AC. And the reason is to stop idiots like you from trying to bring in extraneous arguments to use as distraction from your losing arguments. See, when I post as AC you actually have to address the argument placed in front of you rather than go for the ad hominem as distraction.
And I will just point out that an argument does not stand or fall based on the person making the argument. Hence the reason it is called an ad hominem fallacy. Yeah, I know it really gets under your skin that you lose the ability to deflect and distract.
Obligatory smirk: But that is a price I am more than willing to pay.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @06:44PM (2 children)
So what is this argument that you've allegedly placed in front of me? It's missing!
Hypocrisy, lying, etc are other reasons that an argument can fall when you've made different arguments elsewhere. This is a Fustakrakich specialty. Or when the poster demonstrates a pattern of abuse or delusion. Azuma has done this a few [soylentnews.org] times [soylentnews.org], that's also relevant to bring up.
I see once again a complete absence of detail. And of course, we only have your word that you're not the same nuisance AC as before.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @10:08PM (1 child)
I haven't placed any argument before you this time. I'm merely pointing out to you that when I do choose to engage you (or anyone else) in discussion I always do it is as AC. In the future, do try to read for comprehension.
Actually, no. That is the classic ad hominem fallacy. Fair point to note the hypocrisy when people do that kind of thing but it doesn't change the validity of the argument itself.
*Shrug* You can believe whatever your addled mind wants to believe. But I'm sure that you and everyone else knows that anyone has the ability to post as AC. There are lots of us posting here on SN as AC. Surprise!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 29 2020, @03:22AM
This is the second such post. How about you drop this nonsense and post when you finally have something to say? I'll note your previous post assured me that I would have to address your argument when you posted - none of the above weasel-speak.
Except of course, when such hypocrisy, lying, etc is material to the discussion. Then it's not an ad hominem fallacy.
I don't mind thoughtful, substantial discussion. But when are you going to do it, rather than merely say you're going to do it?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 30 2020, @01:20PM (4 children)
The deathbed confession is such a wonderful plot device.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 30 2020, @09:23PM (3 children)
You don't need to confess. I don't want a public mea culpa from you; no, if anything, I hope you *do* die in this state, to make certain you reincarnate poor and/or racial minority and/or somewhere on the queer spectrum, preferably all three at once plus getting screwed over by a "libertarian" landlord or boss.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 30 2020, @09:47PM (2 children)
My take is that if I have to get born into a ridiculously contrived scenario in order to achieve your sense of justice, then it's your sense of justice that's at fault, not my alleged perfidies.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 30 2020, @11:41PM (1 child)
You don't pay attention to a single fucking thing people say, do you?
YES, you are doing wrong: you support policies that cause needless suffering and misery to others. The very fact that you don't think you've done anything wrong is WHY you are going to go to Hell and then reincarnate in a position to suffer from the imposition of the very policies you support.
You were, for whatever reason, given a life of relative comfort and safety in which to learn the hard lessons of humanity in an easier, hands-off way. If you fail to pass the theory exam, as it were, then you'll have to sit for the practical...*after* detention. I don't expect you to change in this lifetime, and I don't expect anything I say to change you. Only suffering will do that.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Saturday October 31 2020, @01:11AM
Your idiocy is not my inability to pay attention.
Support that claim. Don't just say it.
Once again, that is code for "I have nothing to say, but I have to say it anyway." You keep claiming that I'm not listening, but then you say bullshit like that. Sorry, I can't do anything with your nothing.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:55AM
What about the 1 in 7 who don't have full bellies? The hundreds of thousands out on the streets with only the clothes on their backs?
Yeah, they're doing just fine, huh?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 30 2020, @01:09AM (1 child)
Then clearly you made a poor choice somewhere. But since we know nothing of you but what you tell us, we can't point out that poor choice that you made.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 30 2020, @09:26PM
Yeah, I chose to help an old family friend around the house in exchange for cheap rent, when it turns out said family friend has been violently insane for a few years and somehow none of us knew. That kind of bad choice. The kind that you don't even know you're making because you're not in possession of all the facts and are physically incapable of being so.
Fuck you.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:31AM
Hillbillies in Arkansas that own one pig think that they are in Hog Heaven, and rich enough to dictate to the County. But to every normal American, they are dirt poor.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:18PM (19 children)
That of "wealth inequality".
It always begins by assuming a zero-sum game. That in order for Jeff Bezos to make one more dollar, someone else has to have a dollar taken away from them. But wealth in a fiat money system is anything but a zero-sum game.
Jeff Bezos making an extra dollar yesterday did not in any way remove a dollar from your pocket. You could have also made yourself an extra dollar yesterday regardless of what JB made.
There will never be a situation as postulated in this journal entry where one person owns all wealth in the world and everyone else is destitute. There will be people who have more wealth than others, and when comparing the top vs bottom of that chart, the distance between will be huge. But nothing stops someone in the middle or the guy at the bottom from gaining wealth, because gaining wealth in a fiat money system is not a zero-sum game. You can always make more money regardless of what the guy at the top happens to be making.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:27PM
Wealth isn't money!
(Score: 4, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:43PM (10 children)
And inflation totally isn't a thing. And people definitely don't get cut off from the ability to make money by things like, just to give a random and in no way pertinent example, the intersection of a pandemic and a ruling oligarchy hell-bent on "drowning the government in the bathtub." Nope. Totally does *not* happen. Can't happen. This is Uh-murr'ka, where if you're poor it's your fault!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:40AM (9 children)
In many ways, yes, it is.
Ever notice how in the poor neighborhoods, everyone is always burning dollar bills and pouring coins down the drain?
Maybe you haven't noticed that exact effect, but smoking may as well be "burning dollar bills" and all the Colt-45's downed may as well be pouring coin money down the drain.
Did you ever consider how much more money a poor household might have each year, if only they didn't burn half of it on tobacco and burn the other half on alcohol?
One's wealth is determined by the choices one makes. Make bad choices, get no wealth. So in the end, it is your fault.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:05AM (8 children)
You know, Johnny Depp was spending $15,000 a Month, on wine. That's just the wine. And you want to lecture us about poor neighborhoods? The richies are the real degenerates, going to Jeffry Epstein's (or other richies) private islands to throw away a lot of their money on debauchery and human trafficking of children. Then need to have their money taken away from them, before the spend it unwisely on more debauchery and criminal activities. Like Molly's Game [wikipedia.org].
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:13AM (3 children)
The poor are poor because of the terrible choices they make with their money.
Such as burning dollar bills in the form of cigarettes or flushing coins in the form of plural Colt-45's a night.
But the problem with liberals is they can't see that the problems are because of the choices people make. They always have to shift the blame to someone/somewhere else, i.e., to a bogey man, in order to avoid having to accept that the problems are self inflicted.
Liberals have no concept of "personal responsibility". Any problem anyone has, in the liberal mind, has to have a bogey man somewhere that is causing it.
Your response illuminates this liberal mindset so well.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:20AM (2 children)
This would be a poor, bad-faith argument if you weren't trolling. It's an even worse troll. I don't know what kind of reaction you were expecting, but this is such a simplified, shortsighted approach that I can't even be annoyed with you for posting it. Incidentally, this mindset is one reason I've resolutely remained free of all vices (except caffeine, but the world runs on coffee...).
Generally people drink or smoke to soothe some sort of pain. Fixing the root cause will do a lot to stem the tide of addictions. You, of course, don't give a shit.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:13PM (1 child)
Translation, they are mentally deficient and unable to handle the truth.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 28 2020, @08:26PM
And are they any less human for it? Furthermore, were they more human before whatever happened to drive them to drink or drugs happened to them? If so, what specifically is it about trauma that dehumanizes a person?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:22AM (3 children)
What exactly is wrong with taking the money away via said debauchery? Sure, the microscopic example of child trafficking is bad, but a $15k per month wine bill just isn't a big deal. Depp gets his booze supply and the money gets moved on without any machinations from the likes of you. It's like you've never thought about this.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:17AM
What's wrong with the potlach?
What's wrong with parties and degeneracy generally?
I've generally been on the other side, I've always been a bit of a degenerate, and proud of it. I'd expect you to be the one to bring up the downsides. I've always been of the opinion that debauchery, like virtue or oxygen, is necessary for life - though each can become poisonous in excess.
The hangovers, there's a start. The consequences. Tomorrow you're homeless/tonight it's a blast.
I have no problem with people spending their money on debauchery, generally. You tell me. What are the negative consequences of debauchery?
But let's refer back to the parent journal entry as topic and context. It's not just that some people foolishly spend their money on debauchery. It's that, combined with the fact that some people have control and use of enormous amounts of money they didn't earn - such huge unearned fortunes that a handful of people 'can buy and sell' millions of their brethren. This creates a situation truly primed for abuse - not just the sort of abuse that inflict horrible sufferings on individuals, but also the sort that renders our entire species as a whole less fit to survive.
"a $15k per month wine bill just isn't a big deal"
In the context within which the man was navigating at the time, that's a fair statement.
In the context of a world where children starve to death and die for lack of a few cents every day it's obscene.
I'm not judging the man; it may be that all we can expect of him is to navigate the obstacles life gives him and accomplish some good along the way, and it may be that he managed to do just that. But in the broader context, it's still a warning sign for our species; a reminder that for all our advances in physical technology our social technology has yet to conquer some of the basic difficulties that have plagued our species for tens of millennia.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:27AM (1 child)
This very question marks you as a whore, khallow. We already knew you "service" the rich, out of jealously and envy. Go find the remaining Kock Bro.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @04:57AM
It marks me as a libertarian. I don't defend people only when they and their choices are popular. If we can punish people we don't like for moral reasons, we can punish you for the same.
But even if I were a whore, what's it to you? Scared I'll take your man?
Sorry, you just don't get it. If I really were that kind of whore, I'd be a hell of a lot richer than I am. And I sure wouldn't be working at Yellowstone pushing paper around and/or checking fire extinguishers and door locks (depending on the season).
I live in a great place to be, get paid for fun work, and have a really low cost of living. But it sounds to me from your remarks about "whoring", that you just haven't figured out something similar for your life. I hope you do some day.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:11AM (5 children)
I'm so glad you brought that up.
You're absolutely right. And since 70% of the US economy is consumer spending, we should create incentives for more of that. Which will spur new businesses, new wealth creation and more prosperity.
How do we do that? By spreading it around. Not necessarily with UBI. And not necessarily with social programs (although that couldn't hurt).
We spread it around by using the tax code to *strongly* incentivize business investment in goods and services over profit taking. This will drive new business development and employment.
We spread it around by raising wages significantly. More people having more money to spend will feed revenue to those new businesses, growing the economy and employment. That spurs more investment -- in a virtuous cycle that benefits *everyone*
In fact, if we don't do those things we're in for some serious problems in our economy. Because as more wealth is concentrated into fewer hands, less money will flow into consumer spending. Because there are only so many houses, cars, cinnamon buns, miniskirts, wifi routers, china sets, laptops, duvets, half-caf soy lattes, gym memberships, Spotify subscriptions and all manner of other stuff that one person or family can reasonably use.
And when there aren't enough consumers to meet the supply, we end up in an economic death spiral.
The choice seems pretty clear.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @05:01AM (4 children)
100% of the economy is consumer spending. You just don't acknowledge a fair bunch of the consumers (such as the new businesses). And to speak of "consumer spending" as being a fixed amount of the economy, demonstrates that you are unaware that economic activity != the economy.
My take is that if you want new businesses, new wealth creation, and more prosperity, then maybe that should be the things you incentivize instead!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @05:14AM (3 children)
You're a disingenuous jackass.
Who said anything about it being a "fixed amount?" That's just the numbers from 2019 [thebalance.com]:
Get back under your bridge!
(Score: 1, Redundant) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @01:00PM (1 child)
I didn't mean to imply that it was somehow a constant part of the economy. The real problem here is that you are conflating a measure of economic activity (GDP is another example) with the economy. The problem comes in with your proposed solution:
So rather than incentivize new businesses, new wealth creation, and more prosperity, we're instead going to incentivize more consumer spending (for a limited definition of consumer)? The annoying thing here is that the US has been incentivizing consumer spending for the better part of a century. That noodle has been pushed hard. Any value to gain from it has been gained, IMHO.
Let's go back to that earlier post:
In the first paragraph, we're going to spur new business and new wealth by destroying much of the value of the new business and wealth. In the second, we're going to jack up the cost of employees without providing anything of value to the employer. That again will reduce the value of all business and wealth in the US. It'll spur investment - in automation and in other countries.
As to the "serious problems", you don't have that wealth is concentrating in the first place - or that even if it were, that it would be remotely relevant to us (you're doing some erroneous zero sum game thinking). Further, the measure of wealth is greatly inflated [soylentnews.org] in the first place - my take in large part due to our present, global measures to fight covid and such, which happen to neuter new investment and channel the entire planet into a few dubious safe havens. And this complaining about running out of stuff to consume indicates we've already gone too far with incentivizing consumer demand. Time to look at the warning signs.
My take on the matter? Simplify the tax code so that profit taking isn't double taxed. I suggest outright ending the corporate tax as a means. Take a hard look at the regulations that drive up the costs of employing people and cull them - for a relatively minor example, the HR department exists because regulation has created a very risky hiring/firing environment requiring specialized bureaucrats. End Social Security outright - that drives up the cost of employees by a substantial amount (about 15%). End luxury taxes. Maybe look at temporarily subsidizing employment, should that be a problem.
As to consumer spending, give the consumer a break. Let people pay off their cards for a while. They're not a resource you can dial to a new 11 every time you want more magic in your economy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @06:14PM
Get back under your bridge!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 29 2020, @12:09PM
The corresponding quotes from the balance [sic]:
Again, an economy is not just GDP or "production". Even your sources are careful enough to get that right.
As to the bridge, you're under my bridge now. Don't like it? Don't insist on being wrong.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:19PM
Forget dollars for a second. Wealth isn't money. Wealth is the resources of the planet. Or the nation.
There is a fixed set of resources. Too many of them are concentrated into the hands of too few. Thus others have little or nothing while a few have more than they need. More than they can even use in a lifetime. Safely hoarded away.
Of course, they "invest" which really means they rent their resources out. Extracting more wealth from those less wealthy.
Jeff Bezos having more land absolutely does remove it from someone else. Having more groceries does remove it from someone else (there are only so many, grown by twinkie farmers and taco ranchers).
There probably never will be a situation as I describe where one person owns everything -- because everyone else will revolt long before that point. The masses will storm the gates with torches and pitchforks.
The guy at the bottom is blocked from gaining wealth. Rarely does opportunity come along for them because all their time and energies are spent just trying to survive. Jeff Bezos can spend all his time and energy on other pursuits, comfortable with never worrying about where his next meal is coming from.
When Lucifer was cast out of heaven down to Earth, theologians debate whether he landed in Florida or Texas.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:19PM (17 children)
A reading from the Book of Mammon:
"And so it came to pass that Supply-Side Jesus did come across two beggars, a man blind from birth and a man lame from the womb, and they did entreat him, saying "Help us, for thou art the Son of God and no man else giveth us aid, nor crust nor water." And Supply-Side Jesus rebuked the men, saying "how is it, that thou worketh not, and yet would eat? Dost thou know not this is thievery? Verily I say unto ye, who will not work, the same shall not eat. Even I, and certainly not Saul of Tarsus, sayeth so. Yea verily, not Saul." And the men cursed him and wept, but Supply-Side Jesus was unmoved, saying only "thou shouldst have chosen thy parents better. Thy suffering is thine own fault, and when thou diest, thou shalt suffer evermore, as all who would spoil the wealth of the rich. For so hath My Father in Heaven ordained it, that the rich are rich because they hath His favor, and the poor are poor because they hath it not. Indeed, thou wert born only to perish, and then to perish everlastingly in Gehenna-fire for the glory of the Father.""
This is the Prosperity Gospel in a nutshell, and it's religion to millions of Americans.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:32PM (10 children)
Heresy. Burn her at the stake. No need to weigh her, or the duck, since we're not accusing her of witchcraft.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:41PM (9 children)
Oh I'm sorry, did I hit a little too close to home there? I can't imagine why else you'd comment on a top-level post, especially when your reply was so completely content-free.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:50PM (7 children)
Do I need to define "heresy" for you? And, is it absolutely necessary that I name Monty Python for the humor bit to come across?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:52PM (6 children)
You are unworthy to quote either the Python skits or Yeshua of probably-not-Nazareth. If there were justice in this world, the words would burn your tongue to the roof of your mouth.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday October 27 2020, @11:58PM (5 children)
*yawn* The hatred never ends with you.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:15AM
You have the power to stop it little runaway, but you're too stubborn and stupid to improve anything.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:26AM (2 children)
If i hated you, you'd be getting hundreds of dollars of mail-order incontinence supplies delivered to your doorstep every month :) You're not even worth the effort to prank.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:41AM (1 child)
Didn't you use that line already?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:49AM
Yup, and it works just as well here as there. Though maybe incontinence supplies is too kind. Maybe a bunch of dildos would be more fitting. You'd be right at home in common company, if nothing else.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @12:36AM
_I_ hate you, Runaway! I hate your cuck race theory. I hate your face, I hate your pace, I hate your dog-whistling all over the place? I hate you with my bile, I have hated you quite a while! I hate that you are a racist bastard, I hate that you supported Denny Hastert! I hate you in a box, I hate you with a fox, I do not like him, Sam-I-am, I do not like Runaway.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:27PM
Your very funny and amusing post obviously triggered someone.
IMO the prosperity gospel is heresy. But others disagree and think the gospel is about money.
It is amusing that I don't hear prosperity gospel people talking about the poor. Other than that they simply don't have enough faith to stop being poor.
I would remind them of Jesus own words about Lazarus and the Rich Man. Or what does it profit a men to gain the whole world but lose his soul.
When Lucifer was cast out of heaven down to Earth, theologians debate whether he landed in Florida or Texas.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:53AM (3 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:23PM
Maybe we could try to prevent the extinction of other species.
Especially tacos.
When Lucifer was cast out of heaven down to Earth, theologians debate whether he landed in Florida or Texas.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @05:10PM (1 child)
You know, the rich could avoid that by dispersing a large fraction of their wealth to the poor so that those same poor folks don't always look at them as cattle to eventually be eaten. After all, the rich have more than enough to live comfortable lives. Why not share some of that largesse? Just saying.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday October 28 2020, @11:07PM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @03:06AM (1 child)
Is this humor, or are you channeling khallow?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @05:05AM
(Score: 2) by Zinnia Zirconium on Wednesday October 28 2020, @02:59AM (2 children)
I want more things to be free for me and for everyone else.
Way back before Y2K7 I got free entertainment from broadcast radio and broadcast TV and and public library books. I got these things for free because they were paid for by advertising and by taxes (and by viewers like me. I used to donate to PBS but I don't anymore and I don't watch broadcast TV anymore).
In our modern times I get free music and free TV and free movies and free books from the internet. Internet access isn't free except actually it is or as my friends would say it's free for me. I have exactly the sort of background as tech nerd who pirates everything to accidentally my way to free internet access without trying and then I just stopped paying for it. I want everyone to have free internet like I do but convincing people free internet is everywhere is futile because the nature of people is not to do things unless the dominant influencers in their social networks say to do things.
So free entertainment by internet is free for me and for anyone nerdy enough to find access and for anyone else who really wants it really. I wish the social influencers would influence society to demand free internet access paid for by advertising or by taxes or just provided at a loss. Until then I'm still not going to pay because I have enough technical knowledge to get it for free.
Now free food would be nice and I'm willing to eat gruel because it's good enough if it keeps me alive to enjoy all the free entertainment I already have. If I had whatever is the appropriate background to know how I would totally be on board the pirated food scene. If there's a pirated food scene I want in. And then I want everyone else to have free food too but I expect nobody will want it as long as the social influencers influence people away from the pirated food scene.
"Money implies poverty." "From each according to ability, to each according to need." "If everyone already has what they need, the traveling salesman problem will take zero steps!" These things I believe. I don't want people to have less than they need because if everyone has what they need then so do I.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @04:17AM (1 child)
The pirated food comes from dumpster diving, along with many other free things.
(Score: 2) by Zinnia Zirconium on Thursday October 29 2020, @05:39PM
Not dumpster diving. A free tier for food. Intended for students and the poor but available to everyone without proof of poverty.
Broadcast radio and broadcast TV were a free tier for entertainment. Now everything is on the internet now free streaming services like TuneIn and Xumo serve as a free tier. As long as you don't care about variety or choice then TuneIn and Xumo are good enough. If you do care about variety and choice then the internet is full of pirated content which is pretty easy to find. Getting free internet access isn't quite as simple as it was to plug an antenna into a TV set but with a little knowledge of computers it's not hard to do.
(Funny thing is as of this year now Xumo is owned by Comcast and xfinitywifi is available to anyone within range for free. If you use a Xumo app on a TV connected to xfinitywifi then Comcast provides free content and free connectivity and the only cost involved is equipment and electricity. Exactly like the old days of broadcast TV.)
Not everyone is picky about variety or choice of food. I'd be happy with vitamin fortified gruel every day. I already eat all the same meals every single day anyway. It would be nice not to spend money on the simple necessity of food. I would choose not to pay for it.
I have the necessary background as a computer nerd so I know some things about how to get free internet access and pirated content so the free tier for entertainment is free of cost to me. I choose not to pay for it.
I don't know what the necessary background would be to know things about a free tier for food. I've never been involved in food production or distribution. I wouldn't know how to begin food piracy. Maybe the first step is to identify the RIAA equivalent. The USDA is keeping us down, boys.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday October 28 2020, @04:18AM
Why do you consider that a logical conclusion? My view is that there are considerable diminishing returns to greater wealth. In particular, if one person had that much wealth as in your global example, then they'd be unable to fend off a massive feeding frenzy from the 7.5 billion people you just mentioned (they might be able to buy off militaries or something to fend off the rest, but they'll have to pay out a lot of their holdings just to reduce the losses).
Capitalist societies among other things have grown very effective at parting people from their money. And the extreme rich are a far bigger target than the average person by your metric. Even in absence of that, it takes a small army to manage great wealth and that increases as the assets held get larger and more complicated.
I think we already see that in your metric as I remarked earlier. Supposedly, the highest levels are much wealthier than before. But much of it is a house of cards (such as the US high tech industry by itself being valued by the stock markets as more valuable than the entire listing of European stock markets). I think the sweet spot is somewhere around a few hundred thousand to a few million dollars. Below that, transaction fees and such take up a larger portion of investment costs. Above that, it becomes too much for a single person to manage (unless they are really competent and knowledgeable).
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 28 2020, @07:13AM (17 children)
Their fair share is the same percent of income you pay. Or a flat head tax. Anything else is by definition unfair.
As for it being absurd, it's not. It's not even slightly unusual. It is in fact the norm [wikipedia.org] to have a small percent of the population with a large percent of the wealth. As long as you allow someone's wits and efforts to earn them money, it's going to stay that way too.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 28 2020, @09:21AM (16 children)
there's a monumental difference between "same percentage" or "head tax".
I'd say it would be fair to keep the square root of your earnings, normalized by average/median something.
you make the exact average? keep everything.
you make less? have some extra.
you make more? ok, give something to the state.
you make 4 times the average? you'll still be twice as rich as the average if you give half your income to the state, you'll be fine.
the idea is obviously broken, since rich people would just give themselves tiny salaries but ask companies to buy houses/cars other shit for them.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday October 28 2020, @01:58PM (15 children)
That's not exactly how they'd do it but you've got the general idea, yeah. The less fair the system, the less moral qualms there are to be found for gaming it. And no matter how you say you're calculating it, me paying a bigger chunk of my pie than my neighbor is wholly unfair.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 28 2020, @08:32PM (14 children)
That would make sense, except for two things: 1) elasticity of demand is not uniform across every class of good, service, etc, and 2) related to point 1, some things are absolute necessities to survive. In fact, point 1 is an epiphenomenon of point 2. If you want to try a flat tax, you'd be better served by what you may metaphorically think of as an "angled tax." In other words, set a floor below which income and assets may not be taxed, and take a flat share above that floor. This is not difficult.
Here's an instructive analogy, using your pie metaphor: the human stomach can, with some variation, hold X amount of pie. If one person has enough pie to just about cover X, and someone else has a pie the size of the empire state building, it makes no sense to complain about the guy with the flight-hazardous pie paying "more that his fair share" when both people can only eat X plus or minus delta of pie in one sitting to begin with.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 29 2020, @11:51AM (12 children)
Saying they have "more than they need" is both narcissism and greed. You don't live their life and you don't get to decide what they need. They are neither your subjects nor your slaves that you are entitled to dictate how their life should look.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 29 2020, @07:54PM (1 child)
Oooh a saucy Buzzstupid. Really, this is your core error in belief which even a 3rd grader could figure out.
That is the problem with ideology, it easily becomes rigid and can cause mental illness like your unwillingness to tax the wealthy, and even your encouragement of tax evasion! You have gone insane for misty visions of freedom and meritocracy, all while ignoring reality breaking down right in front of you.
Just FYI buddy, hang in there and one day you might come out of it!
(Score: 1, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 29 2020, @11:08PM
I've been pointing out the "moral priority-inversion glitch" messing with his systems for years. He doesn't give a shit; in his own mind, that is very much a feature, not a bug, because he's clearly a primary psychopath and his elevation of objects and ideology over people is his way of justifying it.
He's never going to change, short of suffering hideously as a direct result of the things he believes, and given that he *is* a psychopath, even that might not do much of anything. By all means keep whaling on him, just understand that he's never going to change.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday October 29 2020, @11:06PM (9 children)
Wrong again!
It's about as close to plain deductive logic as you can get to say they have more than they need, because a single human body's needs are fairly well-enumerated by this point: a certain amount of nutritious food at proper intervals, shelter with heating and (ideally) cooling, clean water, medical care, and whatever utilities--I include transportation here--are necessary to hold down a job and interact with other humans.
I can tell I've got you by the smelly feathers when you reply with such venom and anger. This is the core of your pathology, the hill you chose to die on, and you will do anything to defend your sociopathic worldview. Unfortunately, it's not working; a critical mass of the forum's population knows what kidney of monster you are and you've lost all clout with them.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday October 30 2020, @03:00AM (8 children)
You've got a whole lot of "wants" mixed in with your "needs". I'll give you this opportunity to go back to the mental drawing board and fix that instead of embarrassing you by pointing out how you are not just wrong in my opinion but factually this time though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday October 30 2020, @09:33PM (7 children)
Oh right, I forgot, anything having to do with "interacting with society" has no meaning to you since you're incapable of interacting with other human beings. That doesn't make me wrong; it makes you a broken, malformed example of humanity. Go live in the woods and hunt squirrels with your bare hands.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 31 2020, @12:52AM (6 children)
Nope, you simply can't tell the difference between wanting something and needing it. Let me give you a simple test you can use in daily life: if you aren't going to die today because of a lack of $foo, $foo is not a need.
Which is entirely beside the point. Your needs are nobody else's responsibility, they're yours. It's good to help the needy but mugging innocent citizens and giving their wallets to the homeless is neither charity nor any manner of a good deed. Need is not a virtue and prosperity is not a vice.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday October 31 2020, @02:31PM (5 children)
Way to miss the point, shitbird.
Let me spell this out for you: it costs less to perform preventive maintenance measures for things like healthcare, housing, safe water (hello, Flint!) and nutrition. We, as a nation, pay MORE to deal with the aftermath of neglecting these things than we would if we just fucking fixed them up front.
You *claim* to care about fiscal responsibility. If you did, you would be on board with this. You do not, which means your true motivation is some combination of 1) "fuck you, got mine (and don't tell me about HOW I got mine, fuck you, I don't care)" and 2) "I choose to pay more so that people I deem unworthy suffer more."
Why do you think everyone and their grandmother's dog can't see this? You're not clever, you're not smart, you're not sneaky, and you're not a skilled enough rhetorician to hide any of that. It's one of the oldest cliches in the book. I can't help it if you're a defective attempt at a human being whose physical wiring makes him incapable of interacting with other humans and living in a normal society.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 31 2020, @03:42PM (4 children)
The most fiscally responsible thing to do would be for the government to not be involved in healthcare finances at all. Since they got involved and introduced near bottomless pockets of money to dip into, prices have skyrocketed out of the reach of most everyone. That simply wasn't possible before. So you need another argument.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday October 31 2020, @06:02PM (3 children)
So why hasn't that happened in other civilized nations that have universal coverage? We pay more per capita and have worse outcomes than Canada and the Nordic nations. Why the fuck did anyone mod you up? You're so wrong you're on the edge of "nicht einmal falsch." The data contradict you. You are wrong, full stop.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday October 31 2020, @11:22PM (2 children)
It did, dumbass. Why do you think they wanted the government to pay for it in the first place?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday November 01 2020, @04:40PM (1 child)
And, again, they have better outcomes and pay less per capita than we do. By all accounts this is an astounding success, one repeated in nation after nation. At this point, it's ignorance, stubbornness, and pure evil bloodymindedness that keep something similar from being implemented here in the US.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday November 01 2020, @06:03PM
Slightly less fucked up than us but still astoundingly more fucked up than necessary is your goal then? Yeah, I won't be joining you in that.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday October 29 2020, @11:57AM
Side note because I forgot about this bit. I don't have issue with letting folks who make under a certain amount pay no income tax. That line ends just below what a person working full time at a minimum wage job makes though. Regardless of what minimum wage is; that's another issue entirely. Folks not really part of the proper work force but just looking to pick up a little extra pocket money aren't worth the added paperwork and it's bloody stupid to tax a kid mowing neighborhood lawns.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.