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Journal by c0lo

(in the loving memory of Runaway1956, who succumbed after a long battle to gatewaypundits. May his brain rest in peace, squeaky clean and smoothed over)

because "Doing your own research" is far easier nowadays than building the habit of thinking critically.
Add COVID-anxiety, a chaotic narcissistic Orange clown and compound with the lack of survival problems to solve for the everyday life in a westernized society and (where appropriate) a good dose of American exceptionalism.

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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) 2
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:00PM (45 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:00PM (#1076132)

    Reality is the one thing not affected by stupidity. I think Ricky Gervais said it best: If we burn all the books today, in 1000 years they can rewrite the science books more or less the same; religious books would all be different.
    Maybe I'm an asshole, but if a "person" can't be bothered to figure out what's real, I can't be bothered about their well-being. I'll just pay some dude with a gun to protect/teach me how to use the gun if it comes to that.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday November 11 2020, @06:06PM (44 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @06:06PM (#1076229) Journal

      I'll just pay some dude with a gun to protect/teach me how to use the gun if it comes to that.

      We can avoid that disaster if we can all just agree that there is a shared objective reality and science is the closest approximation we have to describe that reality.

      So......yeah.....my Krav Maga school offers gun classes and I get a $50 credit if I get a friend to sign up. You in the Denver area?

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday November 11 2020, @07:46PM (43 children)

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @07:46PM (#1076279) Journal

        Problem: Some people put political ideology ahead of facts and reality.

        --
        If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:01PM

          by fustakrakich (6150) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:01PM (#1076281) Journal

          It's all very natural, as gravity itself.

          --
          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:19PM (39 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:19PM (#1076287)

          We all know you're referencing Rs and Trump, but the Ds do it too. Stop the onesidedness / hypocrisy. You Ds talk about Trump and his bad manners. Why don't you show us how it should be done? Because you might be reaping what you've been sowing.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:58PM (27 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:58PM (#1076318)

            Lock the AC up! Lock the AC up!

            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:57PM (22 children)

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:57PM (#1076343) Journal

              The language of that post is exactly why the country is so deeply divided.

              --
              If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @06:57AM (19 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @06:57AM (#1076476)

                The language of that post is exactly why the country is so deeply divided.

                Do you even read your own posts? The country is so deeply divided because you liberals have NO tolerance for any opinions other than your own. You really can't see that? Your way or the highway?

                Because Trump is a tweeting nut, you think all conservatives agree and think like him? I guess I should start smoking what you're smoking. Oh, wait, maybe that's what got you so delusional. Nevermind, just keep smoking it.

                • (Score: 4, Interesting) by DannyB on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:05PM (18 children)

                  by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:05PM (#1076586) Journal

                  Instead of using "conservatives", I'll use the Republican brand name.

                  There are some R's who realize that the party has left them. That the R party no longer represents what was once "conservative" values of a few decades ago. These are the former Republicans.

                  The vast majority of those using the R brand name are the Trump cultists who are separated from reality and follow in lockstep with whatever Trump tweets. I feel sad for true rational people with conservative views who have been abandoned by their party.

                  Just look at a recent election map. All of that red is people using the R brand and calling themselves conservative.

                  The R's have no tolerance for any kind of difference. Not only a difference of opinion. But differences in skin color, national origin, religion, sexual orientation.

                  I'll select two examples:
                  1. abortion. There can be no middle ground to have legalized abortion with sane regulations.
                  2. guns. There can be no middle ground to regulate firearms with sane regulations. Especially keeping crazy people from having guns.

                  (interesting fact: there actually are democrats who own guns. They are not the ones that brag about it, or brandish firearms over some perceived provocation)

                  --
                  If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:30PM (16 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:30PM (#1076593)

                    The people I know say leave it up to the states. Then you can go live in a state with abortion and no guns, or vice versa. What's the problem?

                    They want diversity, not the one size fits all crappy-for-everyone monoculture that you want to force on everyone.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @06:00PM (7 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @06:00PM (#1076655)

                      Some things are human rights. Abortion is a medical procedure that is a right for women. Live how you want, but guaranteeing rights for people is not a mono-culture oppression. We outlawed slavery, beheadings, and a variety of other cultural items that do not belong in a modern society.

                      If yiu want Chraria law then YOU can follow it as long as you don't force it on others.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:18PM (6 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:18PM (#1076710)

                        I dont really care about abortion, but Ive seen it lead to severe depression and mental issues that last for decades.

                        I say do Kanye's solution. Give the mom an incentive not to do it, ie $50k/yr or $1 million until they turn 18.

                        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:31PM (5 children)

                          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:31PM (#1076736) Journal

                          If you don't care why are you incentivizing anything?

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @09:40PM (4 children)

                            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @09:40PM (#1076757)

                            Maybe because it is bad for her mental health when a mom kills her own baby? Isn't that what I wrote?

                            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:20PM (1 child)

                              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:20PM (#1076774) Journal

                              Maybe some moms wouldn't be killing their babies if they had birth control. And could afford birth control. Or could afford to even care for and feed a baby -- while having a job.

                              --
                              If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
                              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:25PM

                                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:25PM (#1076777)

                                Did you even read what you are responding to? Or can you only parrot talking points that dont apply?

                            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @07:46AM

                              by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @07:46AM (#1076953)

                              But if that baby was Kanye, would it not work in reverse? I don't understand.

                            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @07:51AM

                              by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @07:51AM (#1076954)

                              Maybe because it is bad for her mental health when a mom kills her own baby?

                              Much better for the woman's mental health to keep the baby, and kill the father! Bite his fucking head off like a Royal Preying Mantis Momma! Yeah! You Rock, girl! So, the problem is not so much that we need to outlaw abortion, as we need to legalize any woman killing any fucking man, because he has it coming. Peace, at last. We start with the Catholic Priests, follow up with the tele-vangelicists, and finally end with ex-President of Liberty (alleged) University, Jerry Fallbad, Jr. Something about strangling the last something, with the entrails of the last other thing? It's famous. Look it up.

                    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:23PM (3 children)

                      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:23PM (#1076711) Journal

                      What's the problem?

                      The Constitution says we all have equal rights and protection under the law.

                      The problem is when states try to violate that equal protection because states are not allowed to violate the Constitution.

                      So for abortion, for example, can you think of a safe, regulatory-approved, surgery you could get a doctor to perform on you as a male that would require government approval?

                      And conversely, do you think it's a good thing for your doctor to violate your confidentiality to inform the government of your private medical decisions?

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:29PM (2 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:29PM (#1076713)

                        So for abortion, for example, can you think of a safe, regulatory-approved, surgery you could get a doctor to perform on you as a male that would require government approval?

                        Can I think of a regulatory-approved surgery that requires government approval?

                        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:46PM (1 child)

                          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:46PM (#1076720) Journal

                          Yes. You're semantics aren't even clever.

                          If it has ALREADY been approved by the government are there any other surgeries that require a SECOND government approval before you are allowed to get it?

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:06PM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:06PM (#1076726)

                            So you already know the answer is :

                            Yes.

                    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:15PM (3 children)

                      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:15PM (#1076771) Journal

                      Then you can go live in a state with abortion and no guns, or vice versa. What's the problem?

                      Wiow. That sounds an awful lot like arguments I've heard about the civil war. The South was merely fighting for the right of a region to govern its own affairs and run their economy as they saw fit.

                      About guns: I don't want there to be NO guns. As I said somewhere, some democrats own guns. What I want is for crazy people to not have guns. And maybe a minimum level of marksmanship, just as a drivers license requires a minimal level of driving competency.

                      About abortions. I would prefer that there be no abortions ever. But I recognize that sometimes there are circumstances where a family is faced with a horrible decision. Like late in a pregnancy. If a women is waiting until late in the pregnancy to have an abortion, then it is obvious that she intended to give birth, and something has gone horribly wrong. A tragedy for the family. The government should stay out of it, and leave it to the doctor and the family to deal with. Someone who simply uses abortion as a form of birth control doesn't wait until late in the pregnancy and put themselves through all of the physical discomforts.

                      --
                      If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:46PM (2 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:46PM (#1076790)

                        So youve got no real solutions in mind. Just want to force your lifestyle on everyone else. No different than the religious freaks.

                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @08:16AM (1 child)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @08:16AM (#1076958)

                          My lifestyle involves hunting and despatching deplorables. They made a documentary about it, called, "Columbine". Maybe you saw it. Not forcing my lifestyle, just targeting deplorables. World is better off, I am happy, win-win situation.

                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @09:26AM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @09:26AM (#1076971)

                            So, you're an abortion doctor?

                  • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday November 13 2020, @12:25AM

                    by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday November 13 2020, @12:25AM (#1076818) Journal

                    There are some R's who realize that the party has left them. That the R party no longer represents what was once "conservative" values of a few decades ago.

                    As the dems did to the liberals. Yet the liberals linger for some reason. Both should form their own financial institutions and political parties. The public is ripe for something "new"

                    --
                    La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
              • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @09:50AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @09:50AM (#1076507)

                What division? The red team and blue team agreed, put cell modems in the voting machines so elections have no legitimacy and they get 98.5% of the vote. They probably took 10 million of jorgenson's votes and gave them to biden then gave the Republicans the senate and more house seats.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @05:00PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @05:00PM (#1076629)

                  OK Comrade

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:21AM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:21AM (#1076382)

              > Lock the AC up!

              Nah, just rectify them.

              • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:21AM (2 children)

                by deimtee (3272) on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:21AM (#1076407) Journal

                You don't have the capacity. The resistance will stop you inducting them.

                --
                No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
                • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @11:08AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @11:08AM (#1076527)

                  Q scholars have determined why Trump tower is hit by lightning just before pivotal events: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/214/676/8aa.jpg [kym-cdn.com]

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @08:32AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @08:32AM (#1076960)

                  It is for micro-threads like this, that I come to SoylentNews. Well played, ECs!

          • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:02PM (10 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:02PM (#1076320)

            A) Ds not nearly to the same extent as Rs, by a huge margin
            B) We tried to have good manners for most of the last 4 years, but
            C) Legitimate complaints about Trump and his administration were met with "some people put[ting] political ideology ahead of facts and reality"
            D) Full circle

            Simple fact is that Rs are deep into fake news and authoritarianism. The problem is not with Ds right now, and continued gaslighting will only earn you further scorn. I think I speak for most liberals, we are done trying to compromise with bad faith entitled people who hypocritically give crimes and abuses of power a total pass when it is their team.

            If you want to complain about instances of Ds being hypocrites then get your own house in order first. Until I see a conservative show some humility and admit to reality I will treat them as hostile agents.

            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:12PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:12PM (#1076327)

              You're aiming for funny? Oh, shit, you're serious!

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:56PM (2 children)

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:56PM (#1076341) Journal

              Well said!

              Legitimate complaints about Trump and his administration were met with ...

              met with: TDS

              Because you cannot criticize Trump.

              I'm happy to blame the D's when they put ideology ahead of science, facts and reality. I would point out that Joe Biden stated his Covid-19 tragedy strategy would be solidly based on science. If we're all gonna die, it'll be based on science!

              FoxNews does not even make a pretense of trying to be fair. Or balanced. CNN does pretend to be fair. And pretends to be balanced.

              I have not agreed with every policy decision of any president. Like Obama, for example. I don't like every single thing he did. But I liked a lot. With R's and especially Trump, it is a total religious cult mentality. There is nothing Trump can do or ever has done wrong. None. Zip. We're seeing his fascist streak trying to seize power, and his fascist followers are just fine with it.

              I think I speak for most liberals, we are done trying to compromise with bad faith entitled people who hypocritically give crimes and abuses of power a total pass when it is their team.

              Fixing that would go a very long way. But D's need to police their house also.

              But we're wandering away from the problem of R's putting ideology ahead of facts, reality and science in a way and on a scale that the D's do not.

              --
              If you eat an entire cake without cutting it, you technically only had one piece.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @05:23PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @05:23PM (#1076637)

                I'll list what Trump did wrong:

                1. bump stock ban, without making a good trade for it

                2. appointed Sessions, and Wray

                3. didn't put Epstein in protective custody with the US Marines doing 24x7 watch and feeding sealed randomly-selected MREs

                Now you try. You should be able to come up with a half dozen Biden and Harris scandals that are worse then anything done by Trump, Reagan, or Nixon. You should be able to come up twenty Obama scandals at that level.

                • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:33PM

                  by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:33PM (#1076738) Journal

                  You just listed what President Trump did wrong.

                  It is impossible for President Biden to have done anything wrong yet.

            • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:56PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:56PM (#1076342)

              A) Ds not nearly to the same extent as Rs, by a huge margin

              Nope. If anything, they are roughly equal in amount.

              B) We tried to have good manners for most of the last 4 years, but

              If spouting a constant stream of pure lies for four years is considered good manners then I'd hate to see what the D's would do if they were not trying to have good manners for the last four years. Oh, wait, we did get to see that this summer. All the D riots in major cities smashing glass and setting everything on fire.

              C) Legitimate complaints about Trump and his administration were met with "some people put[ting] political ideology ahead of facts and reality"

              Except you were doing exactly that. Every one of the lies the D's spouted for the last four years only happened because the D's ignored the facts that showed the lies were lies, and spouted the lies just the same. Example (the linchpin of the mess of lies): The fine people hoax. Totally a made up lie by D's created by ignoring the sentence a mere 20 or so words later in the same speech where they cut out the "fine people" part for supporting their lies.

              • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @11:37PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @11:37PM (#1076373)

                OK Liar.

                • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:31AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:31AM (#1076439)
                  Not at all. And as proof, here is the proof that the fine people hoax was a lie:

                  See this wikipedia page, in the "Third statement" section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_right_rally#Third_statement [wikipedia.org]

                  The entire transcript quotation can be read on Wikipedia, below the quotes are trimmed to just the important bits. The first bit, the quote that CNN ran with to create the lie that is the fine people hoax (italics on the part CNN ran with, bold face on the part they excluded to create the lie):

                  TRUMP: ... you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. ...

                  And, here is the part that CNN omitted, that shows that what they reported was and still is a lie:

                  TRUMP: ... And you had people—and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally—but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists.

                  Reporting just the first quote, and omitting the second quote, which was only a very short distance away from the first, is outright lying on CNN's part.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @08:37AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @08:37AM (#1076962)

                    So, the marginal Nazis and white supremacists, the alt-white, if you will, those are the fine people on the other side? When my grandpa was dropping bombs on Nazi Germans, no doubt there were some very fine people he blew to fucking bits. But, you know, they stood with the Nazis and white supremacists, or at least too close for a blockbuster to tell the difference. They were not fine people. They are Nazi and white supremacist sympathizers, as I can only image you are, you apologist for Nazis. Careful where you stand.

            • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:15AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:15AM (#1076485)

              I will treat them as hostile agents.

              Well at least you admit to where all the shitstorm is coming from. Okay, keep it up. It may go to literal civil war.

              Or, you could try civility, but for some reason your side just aren't kind people.

            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday November 13 2020, @06:00AM

              by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday November 13 2020, @06:00AM (#1076940) Journal

              Ds not nearly to the same extent as Rs, by a huge margin

              Being merely complicit is no better than being the ring leader.

              Reelection of the same old shit is only making room for the next Trump, and if you think this one is bad...

              --
              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:34PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:34PM (#1076302) Journal

          Yes, that was the joke!

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @10:13PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @10:13PM (#1076352)

          I'm afraid it's far worse than that.

          Most people's belief systems -- be it religious belief, political ideology, etc. -- shape not only what they accept as reality, but what they can even perceive as reality. A good metaphor I've seen for this is "reality tunnel". Things that don't match up to the person's existing beliefs just don't make it through their reality tunnel. Have you ever stared, thunderstruck, at someone who just can't seem to even see what you're pointing out to them? Well, they can't see it. Literally, they can not perceive the event/object in the same way you do, because of their reality tunnel, filtering their perceptions to fit their beliefs.

          Scott Adams has referenced the same thing using the metaphor of people being in the same theater, but watching different movies.

          With practice, you can figure out when other people are filtering things through their reality tunnel. It's very difficult to figure out when you yourself are doing it.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:07PM (58 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:07PM (#1076139) Journal

    At first, QAnon was a largely US phenomenon, with limited penetration in the UK. The pandemic, however, has changed that. According to recent polling by Hope Not Hate, one in four people in Britain now agree with some of the basic conspiracies it has promulgated: that “secret satanic cults exist and include influential elites”, and that “elites in Hollywood, politics, the media” are secretly engaging in large-scale child trafficking and abuse. Nearly a third believe there is “a single group of people who secretly control events and rule the world together”, and almost a fifth say that Covid-19 was intentionally released as part of a “depopulation plan”.

    What were the above rates before Covid-19? Depending on how the poll is structure, you can get large false positive rates just from bad polling design. I think it'd be educational to replace those questions by "Hope Not Hate" with other arbitrary questions and see if those 1 in 5 rates remain.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:23PM (14 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:23PM (#1076145)

      And depending on how and by whom the "news" media is controlled, you can control the masses. And we're witnessing it happening, but so many are duped and drinking the Kool-Aid.

      • (Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:27PM (13 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:27PM (#1076146) Journal

        And depending on how and by whom the "news" media is controlled, you can control the masses.

        It's even easier to control your own poll that justifies your existence.

        • (Score: 3, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:51PM (12 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @02:51PM (#1076154) Journal
          I think my comment bears reflecting on. Sure, people may be crazier than they've been before. But the poll was managed by a group using that poll to justify their own existence. There is a huge conflict of interest here. My take is that with very improper poll design you could probably get 1 in 5 to agree that cartoon character, Mickey Mouse is the President of the US even though none of those polled would actually believe that.
          • (Score: 4, Funny) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday November 11 2020, @04:33PM

            by Mojibake Tengu (8598) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @04:33PM (#1076188) Journal
            --
            The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:22PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:22PM (#1076289)

            Polls are crumbling under their own weight. Nobody should listen to them. Let them wither and fade away.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday November 11 2020, @10:46PM (6 children)

            by c0lo (156) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @10:46PM (#1076358) Journal

            khallow, you lazy bum, why do you stop at sowing mistrust in a study without reading it first, much less citing from it to point the flaws?
            Go into sketching some alt-reality and then you give the "do your own research" shove. That's the way of WWG1WGA.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
            • (Score: 1, Redundant) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @11:50PM (3 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @11:50PM (#1076378) Journal

              khallow, you lazy bum, why do you stop at sowing mistrust in a study without reading it first, much less citing from it to point the flaws?

              I already gave the reasons. Life's too short to read bad studies.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:01AM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:01AM (#1076401)

                In the mind of khallow, all the studies are bad. He does not kneed to look, he just knows this a priori. A very stable genius, be the khallow!

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:19AM (1 child)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:19AM (#1076406) Journal
                  Sounds to me like I've read more of the study than you have.
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:44AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @10:44AM (#1076521)

                    Mit der Dummheit khallow kämpfen selbst Götter vergebens.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:28AM (1 child)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:28AM (#1076384) Journal
              As another example of how bad the study is, look at the bibliography and appendix giving data on the poll question by question. I wasted my time looking at this and I've had enough of it.
              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:18AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:18AM (#1076487)

                What the arrogant liberal Aussie hasn't grasped is that his "research" is just him sucking the teet of liberal news spun up stories.

          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday November 12 2020, @04:47AM (2 children)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday November 12 2020, @04:47AM (#1076450) Journal

            I think my comment bears reflecting on.

            Of course you do. You are the khallow, no? How could you think otherwise?

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:31PM (1 child)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:31PM (#1076563) Journal
              And of course, you don't think, one way or another. Once again, I find it interesting how there's so much support for a shoddy paper derived solely from a couple of flimsy polls and quotes from David Icke. A paper of similar quality on dark matter, would have been laughed out of the room.
              • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday November 12 2020, @06:29PM

                by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday November 12 2020, @06:29PM (#1076669) Journal

                You mad, bro?

                Finally, we have reduced khallow to his ground position. Liberals do bad science, because they are liberals. Ad hominem much, khallow?

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @03:40PM (42 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @03:40PM (#1076174)

      Depending on how the poll is structure, you can get large false positive rates just from bad polling design.

      From the referenced paper [hopenothate.org.uk]:

      METHODOLOGY:
      Hanbury Strategy conducted a survey of 2,000 adults between September 8 and September 11 2020,
      using an online panel of respondents. To ensure the sample was as representative as possible, we
      sourced the most up to date census statistics to inform our weighting and sampling criteria, and
      collected responses according to strict quotas. Respondents under the age of 18 were disqualified.
      Each panellist was assigned an individual ID by the online panel provider, which was used to select
      panellists for the survey according to the target sampling criteria and to ensure panellists were not
      over-contacted, which limits survey fatigue and potential bias. The data was also passed through a
      series of automatic and manual checks to deal with any poor quality responses or duplication that
      might have occurred.
      Finally, to adjust for small discrepancies in sampling, the data was then weighted to be nationally
      representative using an RIM weighting scheme, which weighted respondents based on the interactions
      between region, gender and age.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:14PM (41 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:14PM (#1076196) Journal
        It doesn't mean they're following that boilerplate.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:41PM (40 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:41PM (#1076209)

          Yeah. And I might or might not be writing in English.

          Yo no se.

          You're making the claim that the methodology is a lie. Where is the *evidence* for that claim?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:44PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:44PM (#1076211)

            No see, when it comes to conspuracy theories the only important part IS the accusation! Finding out if they are right or wrong just ruins the mystery......

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:47PM (38 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:47PM (#1076214) Journal
            Conflict of interest plus extraordinary claims (and bias too - treating a variety of beliefs as being Q Anon originated). Smart money would be on a problem with the poll.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:52PM (4 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:52PM (#1076217)

              Conflict of interest plus extraordinary claims (and bias too - treating a variety of beliefs as being Q Anon originated). Smart money would be on a problem with the poll.

              Six bitcoins [xe.com] says the methodology in the paper was the methodology used to collect the data reported.

              Are you ready to put your money where your mouth is, or are you just blathering as usual?

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:28AM (3 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:28AM (#1076385) Journal
                Not touching that bet. You're betting currently around $95k which is way too rich for the matter at hand. That's enough to bribe any normal authority, the organization in question, and their "online panel provider" to falsify evidence.

                Second, the paper is strictly an opinion piece with no polling data provided for the alleged study (no citation of any sort, not even the name of the above provider of the poll). It's already in violation of the conditions they outline because there's no way in that paper to verify that the polls (there are at least two described in the paper) are as claimed or even exist in the first place. I think some of the details claimed indicate that there's some sort of real world poll somewhere, but it's interesting how little data there actually is about the poll or who did it.

                There are indications of deep problems with the quality of the data. For example (page 27):

                However, measuring support for QAnon is more complex than one might think. Whilst 8% of our sample claimed to support QAnon, a number of these “supporters” also claimed in a previous question that they had not actually heard of QAnon, results that echo a recent survey in the US.1 Taking those who claimed to have both heard of QAnon and to support it as a more accurate figure, we get the still considerable figure of 5.7% (3.2% strong support, and 2.5% soft support), although it is unclear what importance these respondents place on that support.

                In other words, 30% of the people who allegedly support QAnon have never even heard of the group.

                Also from the earlier quoted boilerplate of the poll, we have this key phrase: "using an online panel of respondents". Since QAnon is an online phenomenon, you are polling by one of the key characteristics that will bias the study - online people are vastly more likely to have heard of the theory than people who aren't online. They aren't polling the "British mainstream", they're polling some people who have access to that online panel and then extending their results to a hypothetical British mainstream, but extending across with a key bias of the data.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @05:05AM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @05:05AM (#1076455)

                  Not touching that bet. You're betting currently around $95k which is way too rich for the matter at hand. That's enough to bribe any normal authority, the organization in question, and their "online panel provider" to falsify evidence.

                  So you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is. That's quite telling.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:14PM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:14PM (#1076556) Journal
                    Well, you aren't either. AC posting only.
                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:04PM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:04PM (#1076573) Journal
                    Let me point out the problems with the bet as you proposed it. First, you're posting as AC. I have no idea who you are, much less that you can back your side of the bet or for that matter aren't merely looking for an angle to steal from me. Second, no mechanism for the bet, either the placing of bets or the subsequent judgment of the bet.

                    Third, too much money. I have experience with bets that can be thrown arbitrarily because there's enough money to make it worthwhile. $95k would be way more than needed to bribe various parties (particularly the judge) to throw the bet one way or another.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:55PM (15 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @05:55PM (#1076221)

              Conflict of interest plus extraordinary claims (and bias too - treating a variety of beliefs as being Q Anon originated). Smart money would be on a problem with the poll.

              That's not *evidence*. That's rank speculation [gfycat.com] without any factual basis.

              Evidence, motherfucker. Do you have any?

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @06:17PM (14 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @06:17PM (#1076234) Journal
                The rank speculation is factual and distinguishes between hypotheses. That makes it evidence.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:07AM (13 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:07AM (#1076403)

                  One of the primary symptoms of dis-associative Schizophrenia is mistaking rank speculation for fact, and bias confirmation for evidence. And then there is

                  Schizophrenia is a serious mental disorder in which people interpret reality abnormally. Schizophrenia may result in some combination of hallucinations, delusions, and extremely disordered thinking and behavior that impairs daily functioning, and can be disabling.

                  People with schizophrenia require lifelong treatment. Early treatment may help get symptoms under control before serious complications develop and may help improve the long-term outlook.

                  Mayo Clinic [mayoclinic.org]

                  Late it maybe too for khallow already.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:31AM (12 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:31AM (#1076408) Journal
                    Let's review before you continue. The following are facts:
                    • The organization, Hope Not Hate just published a paper claiming that it's areas of interest, QAnon hate speech on the internet, is worse than expected.
                    • The paper is based on a poll (actually two) claimed to be conducted by an unnamed "online panel provider" on behalf of Hope Not Hate.
                    • Hope Not Hate is funded by people concerned about hate speech and such on the internet. Their interest would be in fighting/curbing actual hate speech rather than imaginary hate speech.
                    • Thus, this poll is a conflict of interest between Hope Not Hate's interests, and those of the people who are reading the paper and possibly donating to the organization.
                    • Nobody else is claiming such large numbers of people believing QAnon precepts. Thus, extraordinary claims.
                    • The paper in question conflate without basis that a variety of beliefs are QAnon-originated such as the belief "there is a single group of people who secretly control events and rule the world together".

                    There you go. Facts not rank speculation. Perhaps you have better things to do than a 1984-style pathologizing of rational discussion?

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:53AM (3 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:53AM (#1076411)

                      So let me get you straight, khallow: Hope Not Hate is the antifa, so they are connected to the Cosmic Ping-pong Pizza, which is run by the Illuminati, which is only a front for the Lizard people who live inside the hollow earth, and Bennu. Does that about sum up your argument?

                      Or are you just upset that they are not Nazis?

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:19AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:19AM (#1076414)

                        No you fool! It's the weather war! khallow intends to use ICE machines to raise the average global temperature by 3°C by 2100, causing more frequent natural disasters and mass migrations leading to armed conflicts and war! The underground lizard people in the hollow earth supply him with the foul ichors that run his ICE machines!

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:26AM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:26AM (#1076416) Journal

                        So let me get you straight, khallow

                        Sounds pretty crooked to me.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @09:53PM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @09:53PM (#1076763) Journal
                        This is the same trolling game that PETA does. We wouldn't get worked up because the Meat Is Murder people have a poll, right? So why are we supposed to now?
                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:27AM (7 children)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:27AM (#1076437)

                      The paper is based on a poll (actually two) claimed to be conducted by an unnamed "online panel provider" on behalf of Hope Not Hate.

                      Unnamed? not so much:

                      Hanbury Strategy conducted a survey of 2,000 adults between September 8 and September 11 2020

                      https://www.hanburystrategy.com/ [hanburystrategy.com]

                      Is it painful talking out of your ass like that?

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:09AM

                        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @07:09AM (#1076482)

                        Nonsense. "Hanbury" isn't a name at all, thus they remain unnamed. You might fool Brits with that, but any American can spot it as made-up gibberish.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:25PM (5 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:25PM (#1076561) Journal
                        The poll provider gets mentioned exactly once. Now, we go to the next stage where I note that Hanbury Strategy is a public affairs/lobbying firm [prweek.com]. Seems a good choice to generate a pretext for an anti-QAnon screed.
                        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:25PM (1 child)

                          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:25PM (#1076733)

                          Cui Bono? Follow the money! Woodward, Bernstein, and khallow have uncovered a massive conspiracy to make money by criticizing the QAnon wacko conspiracy theory! They stand to make so much money! It's just like all those AGW proponents, who are doing it only to sell more black baby abortions, and the doctors reporting Covid-19 as cause of death because then they get Green Stamps. Funny how Republicans (and their less intelligent Libertarian hangers-on) can only imagine one singular motivation for any human action: Greed. Now we know that khallow is a disciple of Gordon Gecko, "Greed is good!"

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @09:49PM

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @09:49PM (#1076761) Journal

                            Woodward, Bernstein, and khallow have uncovered a massive conspiracy to make money by criticizing the QAnon wacko conspiracy theory!

                            I wouldn't call it massive. It's the same low grade trolling game that PETA does. And given how public they are about it, I wouldn't call it a conspiracy either.

                        • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday November 13 2020, @12:41AM (2 children)

                          by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday November 13 2020, @12:41AM (#1076824) Journal

                          Anti-QAnon? No... It's advertisement for QAnon. Make them bigger than they are. Give them some much needed attention. All you people are playing your poly-sci theater while they count the money.

                          --
                          La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday November 13 2020, @01:38AM (1 child)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday November 13 2020, @01:38AM (#1076854) Journal
                            Well, Hope Not Hate needs the business. They have nothing better to do than talk up any threats they can imagine.
                            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday November 13 2020, @01:47AM

                              by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday November 13 2020, @01:47AM (#1076862) Journal

                              We can do like that "Kevin Bacon" thing. How many degrees of separation are there between them and Soros/Koch/Murdoch? As you know, nothing happens without money...

                              --
                              La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 4, Touché) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday November 11 2020, @07:10PM (16 children)

              by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @07:10PM (#1076271)

              Smart money would be on a problem with the poll.

              Smart money would be on the proposition that nobody would believe that Q-Anon nonsense, and yet here we are.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @07:48PM (15 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @07:48PM (#1076280) Journal
                That's one of my points. I think it likely that the Q Anon stuff has been exaggerated.
                • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:22PM (12 children)

                  by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @08:22PM (#1076290)

                  I'm not sure I agree, based on the number of Facebook posts I see about "Covid Camps" and "Child Cannibalism" and other nonsense that have 10's of thousands of likes and comments.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 11 2020, @11:03PM (10 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 11 2020, @11:03PM (#1076362) Journal
                    Facebooks posts, comments, and likes mean what?
                    • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday November 11 2020, @11:29PM (9 children)

                      by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Wednesday November 11 2020, @11:29PM (#1076370)

                      What do you think they mean?

                      It is something people are talking about.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:30AM (5 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:30AM (#1076387) Journal
                        How many people? Why do their opinions count enough for us to care?
                        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:53AM (4 children)

                          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Thursday November 12 2020, @12:53AM (#1076397)

                          Have you not been paying attention?

                          Go back to the top of the page and see if you get the point of C0lo's journal entry.

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:00AM (3 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:00AM (#1076399) Journal
                            Sorry, I think the point of the journal is misguided with some UK issues group pushing a hysteria-generating narrative.
                            • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:50AM (2 children)

                              by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Thursday November 12 2020, @02:50AM (#1076423)

                              You would.

                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @04:52AM (1 child)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @04:52AM (#1076453) Journal
                                Emptily complaining about it isn't going to change my mind. There's plenty of warning signs that this is just another issue group trolling for funding.
                                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:41PM

                                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 12 2020, @08:41PM (#1076741)

                                  Three facebook posts, to one khallow. Hmm, who to believe? Majority rules? This is a democracy, after all.

                      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:03AM (2 children)

                        by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday November 12 2020, @01:03AM (#1076402) Journal

                        "People"?

                        --
                        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:17PM (1 child)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 12 2020, @03:17PM (#1076591) Journal
                          Excellent point especially when it comes to "likes". Facebook has a notorious problem with bots.
                          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday November 12 2020, @05:08PM

                            by fustakrakich (6150) on Thursday November 12 2020, @05:08PM (#1076634) Journal

                            For facebook, the bots aren't really a problem. Besides all this "troll" stuff, the bots keep ad rates up. Just print the appropriate disclaimers and carry on.

                            --
                            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @09:27AM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2020, @09:27AM (#1076972)

                    I think the fact that the basement at comet pizza was so well hidden that no-one could find it is proof that there was something evil going on in it.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:02PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:02PM (#1076321)

                  That's one of my points. I think it likely that the Q Anon stuff has been exaggerated.

                  That's what they want you to think! There, see, your mind has been poisoned! By Fox! Or Breitbart! Or NYT! Or something.

                  did I get that right? this stuff is getting so twisted and confusing

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:52PM

                    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 11 2020, @09:52PM (#1076339)

                    That is what khallow wants you to think!! He is one of them! Don't trust him! khallow may even be Q hisself!!

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