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A Game Designer’s Analysis Of QAnon - Playing with reality (20min+ read. A bit lengthy, but it worth)
In brief - apophenia. Just a tad more elaborated - induced/guided aphonenia.
What's fascinating is the buttons of human psyche that are pushed to sink people deep into the rabbit holes:
- Follow The Breadcrumbs - don't tell, just select the dots that are to be connected
- The Eureka Effect - the rush of the Aha! moments and the feeling of being rewarded
- Lamestream Media - passivate against the reality that's not supportive to the agenda
- Community - sense of belonging, behavior reinforcement; a population large and motivated enough to adopt an evolutionary strategy in selecting the best CT-es
All the above are exemplified - and these examples is how I got to get WTF Beyoncé has to do with QAnon.
So, if all it's an Alternate Reality Game, there's no harm, right? Not so fast, the US Military Academy ran the The QAnon Conspiracy Theory: A Security Threat in the Making? article in its "Combating Terrorism Center" journal, stating
QAnon represents a public security threat with the potential in the future to become a more impactful domestic terror threat. This is true especially given that conspiracy theories have a track record of propelling terrorist violence elsewhere in the West as well as QAnon’s more recent influence on mainstream political discourse.
(Score: 5, Informative) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:51AM (22 children)
You trust the military, Runaway, right? 'Cause they aren't like DEA and FBI.
I'd suggest you read those two stories and there's a chance you may understand where and how the gatewaypundits and nationalfiles lead you by a ring through your nose.
Read them and act now, Runaway (large grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday November 18 2020, @05:25PM
For QAnon I wonder if they maybe pulled the ladder up behind them.
You need to be eased into the whole satanic pedophile demoncrat ring theory.
Once everybody found out that the top of the Scientology pyramid there was a guy named Xenu membership started dropping. [villagevoice.com] I wonder if something smililar will happen with QAnon.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 18 2020, @05:58PM (20 children)
It looks to me as though you have gone down a twin rabbit hole to Aristarchus' alt-right rabbit hole. Here, we see Qanon declared a "security threat", in preparation for yet more censorship and possibly more.
And, while you guys are searching out "extreme right" conspiracy theories, you ignore and/or advance more leftist conspiracies.
Whatever.
Fact is, we've had a summer of left/prog/dem rioting in the streets, and there has been an obvious lack of rioting on the part of right/repub/Q/alt-right rioting.
Enjoy yourself with your little conspiracy theory. You're going to come back out of your rabbit hole with the same thing Ari has - nothing. Nothing, or made-up bullshit.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @06:31PM (4 children)
Qhat leftist conspiracy theories, you ignorant fuck? Aristarchus just seems to concentrate on alt-right for the reason that most of the craziness for a while was the alt-right, that and TMB did not want to be painted with a broad brush. (I know, kinky, being painted with tiny camel-hair brushes like that, and it takes so long!!) But, seriously, what leftist conspiracy theories?
Con-trails? Rightwing. Jade Helm? Rightwing. QAnon? Rightwing. Lizard People? Hmmm. Russia Hoax? Rightwing. COVID-19 hoax? Rightwing. Moonlanding? Rightwing. FlatEarth? Rightwing. Anti-vaxxers? Rightwing. Steal the Vote? Rightwing.
Seems that in reality, you know, that thing that doesn't go away, even if you have a "theory", there are no left-wing conspiracy theories. Please, Mr. Runaway so smart, point some out to us! Please?
(Moron.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:44PM (3 children)
You are terribly confused and deluded. More than half of those you name are bipartisan. That is, they have little or nothing to do with modern day politics, and they have subscribers from all demographics. The right can own Jade Helm and Qanon and Steal the Vote. The rest is bullshit.
The whole Russia collusion thing is entirely in the Dem/prog/left camp. You've been clubbing Trump with it since before Day One.
Don't talk to me about morons while you're sitting on your special little short bus. Next you'll be blaming Trump and the right for every theory surrounding the Kennedy assassination.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:06PM (1 child)
The conspiracy theory is that the Russian Collusion is a hoax. The reality is that Russian Collusion was real, as outlined in the full Mueller Report. So the conspiracy theory belongs to the right. Are you really this stupid?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @03:51PM
Is this the published copy or the copy submitted to the Gnomes of Zurich?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @12:31AM
"You've been clubbing Trump with it since before Day One."
That is because Trump solicited illegal hacking from Russia who granted his request that same day. This isn't rocket science bub, and then Trump continued to side with Russia his entire term. It takes some special level of brainwashing to ignore these things, but hey you probably watch Fox and believe every lie they sell you. Top kek for you dimwitted assholes that can't admit to any mistakes. We have reached "this is just sad."
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @06:38PM (12 children)
Since it was almost exclusively police that initiated violence during most of the George Floyd/BLM protests, that's pretty disingenuous even for you:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2020/09/30/kettling-protesters-bronx/systemic-police-brutality-and-its-costs-united-states [hrw.org]
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong [themarshallproject.org]
https://www.vox.com/2020/6/12/21279619/protesters-police-violence-philadelphia-los-angeles-washington-dc [vox.com]
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/08/usa-law-enforcement-violated-black-lives-matter-protesters-human-rights/https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/04/899084543/amnesty-international-documents-125-incidents-of-police-violence-against-protest [amnesty.org]
https://projects.propublica.org/protest-police-tactics/ [propublica.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_violence_incidents_during_George_Floyd_protests [wikipedia.org]
I imagine that the po-po might also have done so against these folks, except they were outgunned and in some cases, the police would have been among the heavily armed "protestors" except they were on duty. What's more, the right/reactionary scumbags are much more likely to use/threaten deadly force.
https://kevinjshay44.medium.com/right-wing-provocateurs-likely-inflaming-protest-violence-bcf1c48e1d40 [medium.com]
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremacists-rightwing-domestic-terror-2020 [theguardian.com]
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-16/is-far-right-political-violence-getting-worse [bloomberg.com]
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/violence-trump-blm-weatherford-kenosha [jacobinmag.com]
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/27/in-america-far-right-terrorist-plots-have-outnumbered-far-left-ones-in-2020 [economist.com]
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/us/domestic-terrorist-groups.html [nytimes.com]
https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/ [theintercept.com]
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/guns-protesters/611560/ [theatlantic.com]
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/855918852/heavily-armed-protesters-gather-again-at-michigans-capitol-denouncing-home-order [npr.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_anti-lockdown_protests [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:29PM (11 children)
If you say so.
So, "fiery but mostly peaceful" until the cops get involved. I've heard that story already.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:36PM (10 children)
And the evidence backs up that story.
But evidence isn't important unless it supports your point of view, right?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:48PM (9 children)
You say the evidence backs up your story. What happened to your court cases? Who was proven guilty and not guilty? What's that you say? You got all your "evidence" from Lamestream Media and BLM "reporters"? Give me a break - heavily edited BLM "reporter" video ain't gonna cut it. I'll trust Andy Ngo to give as unbiased report as possible, which is exactly why Antifa beat the shit out of him. You don't WANT unbiased reports.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @08:02PM (7 children)
You're adorable!
Are you available for parties?
I guess this [quoteinvestigator.com] is all about you, eh?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:05PM (6 children)
I asked about those court cases. You know, the place where you go to present evidence in support of a grievance? You have heard of those, haven't you? I'm all for evidence based apportionment of blame. I am all for the pursuit of justice. But, your claims, supported only by partisan reporting, don't meet the standards expected in court.
You and I both may believe what we want, based on whatever evidence we find acceptable. Show me the court cases. Does your evidence sway a jury? Didn't think so.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by NickM on Wednesday November 18 2020, @10:18PM (4 children)
He's got a valid point imo. At the PPP summit in Montebello (near Quebec) in 2007, it was discovered that the RCMP or the SQ used "agents provocateurs" to incite violence and discredit the protesters. The RCMP commission cleared them¹, as they always do, and the SQ didn't even open an enquiry but the allegations were credible enough :
https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/08/22/police_deny_using_39provocateurs39_at_summit.html [thestar.com]
I might be a cynic but I would be incredibly surprised if other pollitized police corps didn't use analogous tactics and I would be equally surprised if they didn't received equivalent backing from the people in charge of policing them.
1- Ok, one other time, in a similar inquiry, they received a blame for poor notes taking. It was after the Toronto G20 summit if I remember correctly.
I a master of typographic, grammatical and miscellaneous errors !
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 18 2020, @10:51PM (3 children)
Fair enough. And, where else have we seen agents provocateurs?
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/06/06/buffalo-officials-duped-by-professional-antifa-provocateur-arrest-and-charge-two-police-officers-righteous-police-team-stand-together-and-walk-out/ [theconservativetreehouse.com]
Antifa has their own, it seems. You might just do a search for "antifa agent provocateur" if you're curious.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @12:10AM (1 child)
Runaway has gone from the GatewayPundit to the ConservativeTreeHouse? What? Russian Times and the Moonie Times no longer good enough? Faux News gone over to the sane side? Oh, dear! Project Veritas, stat!! A bolus of Brietbart! Parle? Or Parlor? Conservapedia? Full on QAnon. Goodbye, Runaway, goodbye.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @12:22AM
You could do your moronic fapping in private.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @04:49AM
Oh boy.
So I searched for "antifa agent provocateur" and only got a bunch of rightwing pundit websites with only wild speculation. You need help, you are apparently incapable of separating fact from fiction. Your lack of evidence goes well with the lack of logic, why would anyone protesting fascism want to instigate police crackdowns? Doesn't make sense.
However, in one of the pundit sites they were trying to claim that police clamping down on protesters would drive votes. That also doesn't make sense to do at an antifa protest, and the lack of police action against trumpers shows that theory is total bunk.
So pack it up buddy, the GOP is lying to you for power, spreading bad medical advice to keep their stocks up, and motivating you and your friends to commit politically motivated terrorism.
Real question, are you sympathetic to rightwing domestic terrorists? Do you think they are the actual freedom fighters going to save you from the ghost of communism??
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @11:08PM
Does that mean "yes"?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @05:59AM
Well, there is this one court case: https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-extradition-kenosha-4a2be2814fe56d961a22b76943a24426 [apnews.com]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @10:41PM (1 child)
So, you say not only FBI is about censorship, but the US army too?
Then, you're fucked, Runaway. Either:
- properly fucked, if it's true the US Army wants to censor you and thus is your enemy; or
- head fucked if it's not true but you think it's true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday November 19 2020, @06:01AM
Can I have door number two, Monty c0lo?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @08:14AM (13 children)
Why does Runaway get called out for posting conspiracies but Azuma Hazuki gets away with posting even more outlandish conspiracies and violent screeds?
(Score: 5, Touché) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @08:38AM
Primarily, because it's my journal, and I can do what I funking please in it. Remember? I own those words.
Second, because the reality has a liberal bias; deal with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:05AM
Mostly because Runaway is really, really stupid, and he keeps posting shit from the most unreliable sources, which, for some strange reason, tend to be all far-right loony-toons. Azuma Hazuki, on the other hand, cites credible sources when she does post new material. And what you perceive as "violent" is just her straightening out some of more mentally challenged rightwingers among us, such as yourself. Just because it hurts, doesn't mean it's violence, or that it is not actually good for you. Now, off you go, all the other 1's have already gone. Q is holding the Big Meeting for the Coming Strom, and they found the pizzeria basement (hint: it's in the Vatican!!!).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:36AM (3 children)
Don't forget to donate to Trump's legal costs and campaign debt fund! He needs your help because turns out he is not a billionaire and might actually be way over leveraged making him essentially poor. Yet another lie, so sad.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @02:27PM (2 children)
That's what you idiots think will sting him? That "he's not really a billionaire!"?
However the election turns out, he is not poor nor will ever be. Remember Slick Willy who had to dig deep into his own pockets for his perjury trial? He's supposedly rich a hundred million times over now.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @05:52PM
Nope, I highly doubt Trump will ever become aware of this site not to mention read my comment. Just wanted to throw yet another lie in your stupid face. Trumpettes kept pulling out the billionaire label and his supposed salary donation all the time, but he was just grifting the fuck out of tax payer money. Thanks assholes, in a lame attempt to fight the dEeP StAtE you enabled one of the buggest thefts of tax payer money alomg with the destruction of government institutions that protect us from negligent and criminal corporations.
Great job moron!
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:01PM
Yup. Since he's scamming his supporters to pay off his debts, he can keep what he has for now.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/11/07/trump-stumps-wisconsin-recount-funds-may-used-defray-campaign-debt/6202500002/ [jsonline.com]
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-fundraising-insigh/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc-idUSKBN27R309 [reuters.com]
https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2020-11-11/donations-under-8k-to-trump-election-defense-instead-go-to-president-rnc [usnews.com]
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-one-last-fundraising-scam-leaving-office-n1247527 [msnbc.com]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/11/13/trump-fundraising-pac-recount/ [washingtonpost.com]
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday November 18 2020, @10:23AM (1 child)
Ooh, another secret admirer! :) I'm flattered, but flowers or gift cards would have been fine too. Or large cash donations, those would always be welcome. One favor though? I appreciate you letting me live rent-free in your head, but you seriously need to clean in there.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @11:11AM
Have a wonderful morning, nigga!
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:50PM (4 children)
Runaway gets called out because Runaway is the man they envy most. Maybe they fear him the most as well. ;^)
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:12PM (3 children)
Oh, yes! That is why.
*We envy his ignorance.
*We envy his stupidity.
*We envy his girth.
*We envy his fatheadedness.
*We envy his racism.
*We envy his rude and obnoxious behavior.
*We envy his "booty bump".
*We envy his bliss that comes from being completely ignorant.
*We envy his not knowing where Estonia is.
*We envy his living in Arkansas (Oh, crap, too obvious that this is sarcasm?)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:52PM (2 children)
Discussions get derailed easily enough when everyone is at least marginally serious. Some moron spouting his idiot tirade only derails the conversation sooner. Of course, that was probably your intent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @12:42AM (1 child)
Gotta admit you had me in the first half, but you weren't talking about runaway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @06:04AM
I envy his ability to be completely and totally oblivious to how ignorant and stupid he is! If only I had half of that ability! Ah, we can all dream, can't we? But he is kinda racist, so there is that.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @08:24AM (1 child)
Nigga, ain't nobody gives a shit what you have to say.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:39PM
Yet here you are commenting on what he has to say.
Is that simple dishonesty or some version of cognitive dissonance?
(Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday November 18 2020, @08:49AM (5 children)
That's funny, I always thought QAnon is NSA's training game for their novitiate.
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:02AM (4 children)
What dots have you connected and led you to this?
What if the Russians are doing it in spite of the NSA?
Jim Watkins [wikipedia.org] leaves in Philippines (outside US control) and has his own super-PAC [vice.com] to support candidates progressing QAnon agenda. From where do you think he has the money to run 8kun and the super-PAC? (large grin)
(Hmmm, FatPhil, I think I'm a lame CT-ist. The above sounds too plausible and it's not funny. I'm afraid I'll give up putting together a proper CT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:29AM (3 children)
is this a false flag false flag false flag?
Flag is Midnight Black with VantaBlack stripes!
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:38AM
TooCynical
(Score: 4, Funny) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:39AM (1 child)
Frankly, I don't know. May be anything in the range from a "true flag", going through a "true false flag" or any combination/sequence of "true and false flags" to "an emergent behavior in a chaotic time where the opportunists exploits... well... opportunities, no coordination required". Hey, it's 2020, what do you expect?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:48AM
Go to bed. You're not making sense, nigga.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Wednesday November 18 2020, @11:29AM (21 children)
In the first link, the author slides into the narrative that this is somehow controlled and channeled. My take is that QAnon is a bit of collaborative insanity. People like a good story better than they like the real world (which I guess is where the author and I agree). While there is some potential for control and channeling of propaganda, my take is that it's like herding cats. You might get most of the cats to go one way or another sometimes, but you're not going to get any sort of collective movement that does what you want it to do when you want it. As a tool, it just can't do that.
On the second:
QAnon is classified here as a "threat to public safety", based on very slim pretext. I wonder if narratives that result in calls for censorship are similarly threats to public safety? Seems possible, even likely, amirite?
I guess my beef here comes from the latter "threat to public safety" stuff. QAnon is less of a risk to public safety than narratives that exaggerate it as a threat and then on that basis propose substantial harm on society. But that's the same sort of games that QAnon plays in the first place. Surely, our discourse and strategoes for dealing with QAnon should be better than the processes that created QAnon.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @12:47PM (11 children)
Sure, khallow, it may be many things. Like:
And the proper reaction when they go low is for you to jump over the high moral horse, a jump about deep-into-stratosphere-high would be good
Who knows? It's not like we have the Occam's razor to decide which is the simplest explanation that accounts for their reaction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 18 2020, @05:41PM (10 children)
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @10:59PM (9 children)
If the US Army is engaged in security theater, US is fucked:
1. any RW adversary won't play by the rules of the theater and yet the US Army spends on theater
2. with US Army as an enemy, I'm not betting on the population.
Of course, buy it or not, it's plausible that the US Army doesn't give a fuck about what part of the US population smokes to go crazy, as long as the crazed Americans don't start to terrorize others and the US Army is objectively assessing this kind of terrorism as real.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @01:20AM (8 children)
Indeed. Vietnam War is a good example of the sort of thing that happens. BTW, I was referring to the narrative spun by the author of the second piece. That's not the US military.
We have lots of security theater in the US over the past two decades. It doesn't become any more useful because it's QAnon rather than brown people, Antifa, Insane Clown Posse, or the many other grossly exaggerated dangers of the world.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday November 19 2020, @01:32AM (7 children)
No, it's the "Combating Terrorism Center" of the West Point Millitary Academy which published it as a study and not as an opinion piece.
I feel you're thinking "the progs infiltrated the Army too", yeah?
It matters not to you that they based their analysis on real life cases, because it contradicts your beliefs and you're not gonna drop those beliefs, reality be damn'd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @02:03AM (6 children)
Opinion pieces published as studies are still opinion pieces. This isn't your first time you've made this mistake [soylentnews.org].
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday November 19 2020, @02:12AM (2 children)
I'll let you with your opinions of this was not a study, and it's not published by the US Army and QAnon is just a bunch of funny guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @03:55AM
Where's the evidence otherwise? Seriously, you'll get bad eggs in any grouping of people, much less a crazy one. For a bunch of crazy people, they're pretty peaceful.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @04:06PM
"Seems possible, even likely".
"should thus not be ruled out".
"may present".
There's all these dire predictions that "may" happen about things that "seem" bad possibly. What's missing is the null hypothesis - that QAnon might not have detrimental effects.
Here's my take. Crazy people will believe crazy things anyway - you're not talking about a group that would be healthy, productive members of society in the absence of QAnon. And while they're ranting about child-eating molesters on the internets (or whatever the present QAnon thing is), they're socializing and not breaking stuff or hurting people.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @06:09AM (2 children)
khallow, he is just kind of pink and fluffy collateral damage. He has no idea how he is being played, and in this regard, he resembles closely the Runaway, with the potentional difference that khallow has read some books.
(Oh, and khallow, since you didn't get it the first, or second or third, times, remember when you wanted me to remind you when you did that thing we talked about, again? Well, you are doing it again, just to let you know. If you don't remember, I have to say that those abducting aliens are nothing if not thorough!!)
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @03:15PM
By who?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @03:16PM
I no longer care. It's quite clear you're doing this in bad faith.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday November 18 2020, @04:01PM (3 children)
They are the same
The (not really)existence of trumpies, antifa, BLM, and QAnon prove it can be. The money decides how it is expressed on mass media to direct the public's reaction.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 18 2020, @05:42PM (2 children)
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday November 18 2020, @11:48PM (1 child)
The person presses the right lever lever, and he gets a treat. Press the wrong one and he gets a shock
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @06:13AM
Until we randomly cross the wires. You think you are above the experiment? You think we do not observe your nocturnal behaviors? You think kustrafrachnickov is not fully under our surveillance? We watch your operant conditioning. We plan it. Resistance is, well, you know the rest.
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday November 18 2020, @05:13PM (3 children)
QAnon: a timeline of violence linked to the conspiracy theory [theguardian.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @04:07AM (2 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @06:15AM (1 child)
Well, except to the dead people that were their victims. Very often fellow QAnons, in which case no great loss, but I have to agree with c0lo here, all human life, not matter how fucked in the head and batshit crazy, is valuable, and out not be killed by crazy conspiracy theorists. Khallow, you need to just go and die. Cook youself like a chicken in a hotpool?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @03:13PM
Note the phrase "at least one murder". So right there we have at best one victim not plural victims. What I find particularly interesting about this whole FUD blurb, is that one doesn't even know if the QAnon thing helps create more crime and hurting of people, or helps create less! Perhaps the time these people spent in QAnon participation reduced the time they spend committing crime! Because anyone who gets this deep into QAnon that they're doing this stuff, then they'd probably cause some degree of mayhem anyway, and it may have well been worse!
QAnon may well be a much better outlet for that negative action.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @06:34PM
You mean, like Libertarian economic theory? Hmm, checks out!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Wednesday November 18 2020, @12:15PM (5 children)
c0lo, ever heard about SCP Foundation?
http://www.scpwiki.com/ [scpwiki.com]
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @12:29PM
Nope. Thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:37PM
There goes all my free time for the next week!
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday November 18 2020, @10:04PM (2 children)
"Spooky Creepy Pasta" Foundation?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @10:51PM
You can call it so, but it's a thing [wikipedia.org] - a proper ARG [wikipedia.org]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Thursday November 19 2020, @08:37AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOxarwd3eTs [youtube.com]
Just 5 days ago.
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @01:03PM (28 children)
I think this is rather missing the forest for all those trees.
Why have things like this become so appealing to so many people? The answer is really simple. Our government has shown its full of people doing really shady shit, perhaps most exemplified by Snowden's revelations, and the media itself has thrown any notion of credibility whatsoever out the window for the sake of partisan click-baiting. So you have a government you can't trust and a media that's simply out of their mind. And this is all happening at the time when perceive the nation to be trending towards fascism - likely the same reason polls have become completely meaningless: "Hi, this is [pollster] - I'd like to ask you about your political views." "Oh err yes, I uh.. like what I'm supposed to like... I promise. Please don't hurt me or try to destroy my life."
In this context, 'secretive anonymous insiders' start to gain dramatically in credibility, if only because you know for a fact that everybody else is untrustworthy. And I suppose there's also the hope factor. At times it seems the *entire* government has become just so corrupt and dysfunctional. That there's somebody or some in group in there who's working to fight against the rot within this country is probably not true, but something people are going to want to believe.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @01:21PM (19 children)
I wish the things were that simple.
Unfortunately your explanation doesn't account for the low level of the CT phenomenon between 2013 (Snowden revelations) and 2016, in spite of the same level of knowledge about TLA-s and clickbaity techniques in the media.
It also doesn't explain why QAnon spread beyond US.
I'm afraid you'll have to introduce more factors in your model to account for the reality, something related to generalized insecurity caused by economical situation and covid, a certain amount of opportunists getting exposure and making a life from trolling (who gave Milo Yiannopoulos a life?), the teach-the-controversy chicken getting to roost into my-ignorance-is-as-good-as-your-science, etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @03:23PM (9 children)
It's the cumulative effect of things. People are generally willing to give the benefit of the doubt to people, even governments. But as incidents mount up, it becomes clear that malice is at play. Things like the fake WMD, NSA domestic surveillance, etc. were all quite bad but 2016 was a *major* inflection point. I think the issue is that that is the year that people began voting against establishment interests, probably at least in part because of the events of the past 20 years. And in response to that "problem", the establishment and the media responded in an incredibly hamfisted fashion that's likely only made things much worse and is driving far more people away from the establishment narrative:
- Weaponized identity politics [google.com]. I link to the Google Trends there since it's so incredibly overt when it entered the contemporary zeitgeist.
- The media going overt ad hominem. Support Trump? You're a racist. Not buying into the next great Red Scare? You're a Russian troll. Paying too much attention to irregularities in the 2020 election? You're a conspiracy theorist.
- A coordinated effort among various social media sites to engage in political censorship.
- Increasingly overt collusion among media sites to try to craft a unified narrative. When you look at the front page of 5 major media sites and they all are saying the same oddly specific thing in mostly the same way - it makes me feel like I'm living in the Soviet Union. It also takes me back to Irrefutable [washingtonpost.com] and Undeniable [nytimes.com]. If that's not the most overt propaganda you've ever seen, what is?
- Politicians themselves beginning to overtly call for violence and retaliation against political opponents. We've gone from things such as this [youtube.com] (Maxine Walters stuff) to more recently politicians like AOC calling for "lists" [jewishpress.com] to be made of Trump supporters. I reference that site since Jews tend to be somewhat more sensitive to such behaviors than most.
- The pushing of equity over equality. If you're not familiar with the political differences, that's by design. Equity is a dog whistle for equality of result. Equality itself is about equality of opportunity. Equality is a ideal that ought be strived for at all costs, equity gives you Brave New World.
Anyhow, I feel like I'm getting too "listy" here. I haven't gone full jmichaelhudson. ;-) I'm mostly just a normal person who's certainly been pushed away from any sort of mainstream political viewpoint largely because of the reasons I'm discussing here. That said I'm also not a QAnon type. But I find it very easy to see how people who are in a similar situation to myself (which I expect is probably quite a *lot* of people, and not just in the US) could be drawn to it. It's nice to try to imagine there's some insiders trying to do the right thing. But in reality I suspect our problems are endemic. Success in our modern political system practically has 'be a horrible person' as a prerequisite. We're only going to be able to correct things once we reach the climax of this all, and are able to reset things ourselves. But that's also certainly nothing to look forward to.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @03:46PM (5 children)
Predisposition due to various factors? Yes.
But QAnon without a deliberate push into that direction? Too improbable in my assessment.
Note: I'm not saying that QAnon was a push to achieve a particular hidden agenda, it may have well been a for-the-lulz thing when it started. But, boy, isn't it suck a powerful psycho-social hack to not be opportunistically hijacked by various interests, short term as it may (one hopes) prove to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @04:13PM (4 children)
I think much of what I mentioned above could easily be attributable to pushing people towards it, though certainly not intentionally. For instance the media losing all credibility and then claiming Q was a giant conspiracy theory likely ended up giving far more credibility to it then it could have ever gained on its own. Similarly, as various American social media sites work to turn their political discussion into echo chambers it drives people who do not share those views elsewhere. These new destinations, in turn, end up becoming echo chambers of opposite ideological inclination. It's precisely in these (both the new and old destination) sort of environments with minimal diversity of thought where rather extreme ideas can foment since there's little in the way of people saying 'Hey man, this sounds like bullshit.'
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @04:21PM (3 children)
I doubt the various American social media sites see the political discussion as such a plus they're happy to claim as theirs.
I mean people paying attention to anything but ads are suboptimal consumers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @04:54PM (2 children)
I don't agree there. The same reason I once admired Silicon Valley is the same reason I now believe they are quite dangerous. While pursuit of profit is of course a major driver, Silicon Valley is also *heavily* ideologically driven.
This [twimg.com] is a screen cap of a Tweet the former CEO of Twitter made. In a discussion with another CEO who was suggesting that a politically neutral workplace is generally better for everybody, he said: "Me-first capitalist who think you can separate society from business are going to be the first people lined up against the wall and shot in the revolution. I'll happily provide video commentary." The Tweet was only removed once it started receiving major media coverage resulting in embarrassment for Twitter.
I'm sure you can find a link to the entire comment chain somewhere. I am in no way whatsoever distorting his Tweet or taking it out of context. It was hardcore out of left field. And far from a has-been that man [wikipedia.org] is still actively involved in Silicon Valley, sits on the board of directors of Patreon, and so on. But more importantly, I think his views are not especially uncommon in the valley.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki 2.0 on Wednesday November 18 2020, @08:39PM (1 child)
That tweet isn't advocating violence, it is describing historic precedent. The US has shifted so far towards fascism in the pursuit of unfettered greedy capitalism while trying to silo different aspects of society. China had their communist revolution and a lot of land owners were murdered or sent to reeducation camps where many perished. That is what happens when you try and separate business from society. Same thing in France. It is cycles of greed where each successive generation is normalized to think they deserve all the riches they've inherited or stolen, so they steal some more until the peasants start lopping off heads.
Businesses that make these situations worse are remembered, and CEOs will indeed be the first ones attacked by mobs.
I find it strange you would get so outraged over SV politics when we have conservative militias openly planning to terrorize the nation, yet we hear zilch from conservatives about that threat. Conservatives condemn even the slightest hint of violence from liberals while cheering on rightwing violence and oppression.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday November 20 2020, @03:10PM
Sure, it is. Historical precedent here is almost two centuries old Marxist threats of violence, if they don't get what they want. It doesn't get even a little more palatable because some rich guy is saying it.
Cool story, bro. But it was a vastly corrupt Chinese society not business that was the fertile soil for a Communist revolution. Kuomintang didn't separate business from society. It was all revenue source to them.
As to your complaint about "try and separate business from society", that follows in the Marxist traditions quite well. Some of their best ideas were incidental or even intended as straw men arguments to be struck down in scorn (like the idea that capitalists work or that labor isn't the source of value). Truth haphazardly strewn through the delusion and lies. You want separation of business and society - it prevents things like "too big to fail" and the economic equivalent of the state church.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @06:39PM (2 children)
Ferkin closet racists!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:32PM (1 child)
Submitted into evidence as one example of the left alienating moderates and centrists. "If you're not with us, you're against us and you're a RACISSSS!" Parent missed the opportunity to use a few other choice terms such as homophobic, islamophobic, mysoginist, etc.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @06:28AM
Oh, look! Another fucking racist! Hope you have fun all racisting together! Not really, we are coming to genocide you racist bastards. Americans, all Americans, have no use for you, and if you raise your flag, we will take you out. Copy?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday November 18 2020, @04:27PM (6 children)
My favorite is the famous James Clapper, gone from NSA spy villain to Russiagate conspiracy hero, still on the TV today.
The neatest thing of all is how the nearly perfect 50-50 balance is maintained between the two factions, and how together they receive over 98% support. The QAnon thing is comparatively mild, a beautiful and very effective distraction. Pavlov and Skinner and many others prove the button works. Our "psyche" isn't particularly human, it's just natural, proximity to power, rubbing up against the alpha, hippos and chimps do the same thing, it's just another day...
So, what horrors will we bring down on ourselves next that will make us look fondly upon Trump? I mean, now we hear such nice things about Bush and Nixon...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @04:59PM (5 children)
It sorta works. For those who the education they received (and on which's basis they act) was actually operant conditioning.
For the others who have their critical thinking kicking in a habitual manner (i.e. became way of life), button pushing fails in the majority of time (but, unless they are not married, not all the time)
In particular, QAnon conditioning will fail fast to critical thinking; simply because the QAnon mode of thinking stops when a possible explanation pops up, validation of the hypothesis be damned, we're jumping into finding an explanation that fits for the next puzzle; such a way is incompatible with critical thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:28PM (4 children)
While I appreciate the 30,000 foot view, I think it important to remember that there are actual human beings involved.
And the "alternative reality" game is hurting not just those who go down those rabbit holes, but the people who care about them as well.
An interesting parallel is to radicalized religious/white supremacist groups and street gangs.
People need connection and a feeling of belonging. This is a powerful drive for humans as a social species. Such groups focus strongly on the "us," making members and prospective members feel protected, cared about and embraced. For many people that's the important part. The "them" bits are there to define the group, as if we're *all* "us" there is no *distinct* group.
Perhaps we should talk about that dynamic as well?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/23/qanon-conspiracy-theories-loved-ones [theguardian.com]
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/qanon-families-friends [buzzfeednews.com]
https://www.vice.com/en/article/xwnjx4/people-tell-us-how-qanon-destroyed-their-relationships [vice.com]
https://narratively.com/my-father-the-qanon-conspiracy-theorist/ [narratively.com]
https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/i9suqq/losing_my_marriage_to_qanon/ [reddit.com]
One of the things that make "QAnon" so virulent is that it's not dogma. It's an ever-changing set of conspiracy theories, some of which resonate with one set of folks and some of which resonate with others. The main driver is what goes viral.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/16/tech/qanon-believer-how-he-got-out/index.html [cnn.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 18 2020, @09:40PM (3 children)
How many times have we been told that "Antifa is just an idea" or some such nonsense. That applies more to Qanon than it does to Antifa, I would think.
Up until very recently, I placed no credence at all in any Qanon writings. Here, in this journal entry, I've found more reason to almost believe in a Qanon, than I ever found previously. Like "alt-right", it seems all made up and unreal.
We could almost say that c0lo is making Qanon real.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday November 18 2020, @11:54PM
QAnon, antifa... it's all in your head. The sole function, through mass media, is to keep your attention. They sure got you hooked good!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday November 19 2020, @01:26AM
And this would be false. At the best, you could say "I could almost say that c0lo is making Qanon real for me" and I could not object a iota to it.
Oh, well, "horse... water...", I can't do more for you. I'll let you spend the last years of your life blissfully sinking into the insane delusions you create for yourself. Who am I to object to your kinks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @06:36AM
There is no antifa, you stupid blockhead! It is only the creation of the right-wing nut-job media! And you have swallowed it, treble hook, line and sinker! If you were not so fucking uneducated, and basically stupid, you would realize these things. But, since you are, well, did you know that there is this drug, adrenachrome, that is produced by the adrenal gland in frightened children, and scary monsters are sent out each night to scare children, and harvest their fear? Yes, it is the plot line from Monsters, Inc., and this is a plausible story line to people as stupid as you? No wonder you fall for the "antifa" version. Do you know that there is a company of Monsters, who each news cycle, are sent out to scare little old (white) ladies and conservatives from Arkansas, and they then harvest their fear in the form of TV ratings? And they keep them is the basement of a Pizzeria called Fox News, under the guardianship of Sean and Fucker.
You have been had, and had hard, Runaway. Do not be so stupid in the future, if you can help it.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Thursday November 19 2020, @12:31AM
The media is far less trusted now than it was then. Four years of blatant bias and shrill harangues gets tiresome. The sharp rise in people videoing things and putting it on the web has also hurt them. News reports and editorials that are flatly contradicted by amateur video have degraded them to being less believable than random nutcases.
No problem is insoluble, but at Ksp = 2.943×10−25 Mercury Sulphide comes close.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 19 2020, @03:28PM
What low level?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @02:36PM (7 children)
That may be one side of the coin, why people try to interpret qanon.
The other side is the deep state, the media and their currently chosen political party, the Democrats, using the existence of qanon to distract and divide the people, while they imprison you, kill the economy, and prevent the opposing party from meaningfully observing the ballot counting.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @03:03PM (5 children)
And... what all that explains why (some of) the dumb Brits burned 5G towers [businessinsider.com]?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @03:42PM (4 children)
I think this [bbc.com] explains that well enough. He's the one person I could find who was arrested for said attacks. And he's, shocker, a retard. He already had 29 previous convictions including for arson. The world would, in general, be a much better place if we could just get rid of people like him - but for some reason we place such a value on life even though I will give you about a million to 1 odds that as soon as he's out of lockup in 3 years, he'll be getting up to some new stupidity.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday November 18 2020, @03:53PM (3 children)
It explains 1 of the 77 incidents quoted in the article I linked.
Not incompatible with "acting under the suggestions from QAnon", is it?
I guess his 3 kids would beg to disagree. As I do. Because, for some reason I indeed place such a value on life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @04:38PM (2 children)
I could find no news of arrests for any other case. Do let me know if you see otherwise. I suspect you'll find comparable suspects.
The value of life is such an interesting notion. Will you be surprised when you find a guy with this sort of rap sheet standing charge for homicide? I used to hold the same view as you here until at some point you realize you end up defending the 'human rights' of trash who barely deserve to be called human. And the reason I say that is precisely because he *will* inevitably violate the rights of other, good, people. At some point you realize this world is just better off without some people. Though I would say this is entirely hypothetical. If we ever granted modern governments this sort of power, they'd decide those sort of people we'd be better without would be those who download movies or otherwise go against the various special interests that keep those election coffers filled.
Though I don't think there's much of a slippery slope if we actually carried out such change in laws solely for the betterment of society. 3 violent felonies? You're out. 2 felonies with a firearm? You're out. To slightly change Niemöller's old poem slightly:
First they came for the violent felons, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a violent felon.
Then, life was a whole lot better and people actually began to feel safe walking down the streets in cities at night.
Doesn't quite have that same je ne sais pas somehow, but it works.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:30PM (1 child)
And who gets to decide who is "trash who barely deserve to be called human?" You?
No thanks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19 2020, @01:29PM
That's rather the point I was making. I do think we can create some guidelines few people would disagree with, but anybody who was granted this sort of power would eventually come to abuse it. Even if I think "I" would do right and I was made emperor, it's still not a power I would necessarily entrust myself with because what happens with the emperor to follow me? Or what if I simply lose my mind in older age, or become emotional as any human is wont to on occasion?
This is why eugenics, what was once a mainstay of academic theory in the United States, is also a horrible idea. In a vacuum it can dramatically improve society even moreso when many of those called on to sacrifice the rights to bear offspring often would not even see it as a sacrifice. It was even endorsed by a who's who of society from Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) to WEB Dubois to all of the big names in academia. But the problem these people did not consider is that in practice it *will* be abused. Hitler was not an aberration, he was an inevitability. When any government or leader is granted too much power, it is only a matter of time before that power is turned to evil.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 18 2020, @07:16PM
Evidence motherfucker. Do you have any?*
*This is the hipster version of "[citation needed]". Suck it Boomer!