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Uber wants drivers and delivery workers to get priority access to COVID-19 vaccine:
Given how reliant many people have become on rideshare drivers and especially delivery workers during the pandemic, Uber is pushing for them to get priority access to the COVID-19 vaccine. Today, Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi sent a letter to all 50 governors asking them to prioritize giving drivers and delivery workers the vaccine as essential workers.
[...] In the letter, Khosrowshahi argues that the work of drivers and delivery people has become essential. That's why Uber wants them to get the vaccine "quickly, easily and for free," he wrote in the letter. Additionally, Uber has offered to help share information about the vaccine and encourage those who are eligible to get vaccinated.
"After nine months on the frontlines keeping their communities running, we are asking governors in all 50 states to prioritize drivers and delivery people for early vaccine access," Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi said in a statement to TechCrunch. "Uber stands ready to do everything we can—leveraging our technology, our logistical expertise and our resources—to help protect the people working on our platform and bring vaccines to the public as quickly and efficiently as possible."
See also: Uber's letter to the US CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Friday December 11 2020, @09:29PM (5 children)
But hey, they might as well ask, from the perspective of their responsibility to their shareholders (and drivers). I guess.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 11 2020, @09:51PM (4 children)
But wait, aren't all their drivers independent contractors, not employees? Uber's been to court more than once on that topic. Why would Uber all of a sudden start being nice to their gig-economy work force?
(Score: 4, Touché) by krishnoid on Friday December 11 2020, @10:08PM
They just wrote a letter. It's not like the company is asking for priority access to the vaccines and wants to *pay* for them -- they're not monsters.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday December 11 2020, @10:11PM
P.R.
And worry about more lawsuits.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 11 2020, @11:54PM (1 child)
Because it's on our dime. Want health insurance? Go fuck yourself - I mean, read this email we wrote asking for a vaccine for you. Now go fuck yourself.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by anubi on Saturday December 12 2020, @05:00AM
Covid is a public problem of federal proportion.
That's why we have a federal government and pay federal income tax.
The health of our entire populace from communicative disease affects the entire nation.
This is not just for the rich. A poor fast food chef can take out a huge portion of the city.
Healthcare can't be only for the rich. Everyone's gotta have it. Any infected person is a threat to everyone else.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 11 2020, @09:46PM (20 children)
It would make far more sense to prioritize grocery workers as we come into contact with a huge swathe of the community and without us people would starve. Same goes for the supply chain that gets food to the stores. Arguably, it makes more sense than prioritizing medical professionals as we come into contact with pretty much everybody, even those not dining out or interacting with others will probably have to cone to a grocery store at some point during the week.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Friday December 11 2020, @09:59PM (14 children)
And you'd be wrong, as said medical professionals come into contact with sick individuals regularly, especially if they are caring for COVID patients. They MUST be first on the list.
That being said, grocery workers definitely fall under the "essential workers", and should be placed high on the list.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 11 2020, @10:52PM (3 children)
And that's where you're wrong. Grocery workers encounter sick people every day as well. It's just that we don't have the gear, training or support to do half of what the medical community can to avoid contracting it from exposures. We also are not paid to deal with the increased risk of infectious disease, most of us make minimum wage or just a bit more. Also, people don't starve to death when hospitals shut down. If you think the body count from covid is bad, just imaging what would happen if the grocery supply chain got interrupted in any meaningful way.
Bottom line is that you're a complete moron if you think that the vaccinations being provided to medical workers makes much sense when they're already much better supplied, trained and compensated for the risk. The main reason that they're at the front of the line is that they're convenient guinea pigs.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by anubi on Saturday December 12 2020, @05:08AM (1 child)
Both of you make very compelling points.
My own take is politicians first.
We need guinea pigs to see if this stuff works.
If it works, then give it to medical professionals and grocery workers. Both of these, in my mind, are far more valuable to society, than politicians.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @04:28PM
I think part of the issue is that, something making more sense, doesn't mean that that other thing doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, I see that kind of logic everywhere. If something is too dangerous and something is even more dangerous, it will also be too dangerous, but something that's safer than something that's too dangerous isn't automatically safe.
I do think that it makes a lot of sense to prioritize medical workers and those that hang around retirement homes, but it depends what the goal is. Most of the deaths come from those folks, but people don't have the ability to avoid grocery stores to much of an extent and there's no plans that I've seen to offer it up to grocery stores before other essential workers as many of the essential workers aren't coming into direct contact with the general public and contracting/spreading it the way that grocery store workers do.
Personally, I had it back in January and while I've only been sicker on a couple of occasion in my entire life, I did recover completely from it within a couple weeks without medical intervention so, for me personally, I'll be waiting as I should have some level of protection from already contracting it and others are likely to need it more. I'll likely get it later when doses are more common as it's worth getting vaccinated to boost immunity.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Monday December 14 2020, @06:14PM
So a grocery worker who might be near someone for a short period of time during the workday is in more danger than someone who is in frequent contact with actual COVID-infected patients? I'd like to see some data and evidence from you first before I sign on to that.
No, I want the people who have been on the front line fighting for us to get this first. All distribution plans I've seen go: medical personnel first, the vulnerable (generally by age) second, essential workers third, general population last (generally by age). This is logical and makes sense.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 4, Informative) by choose another one on Friday December 11 2020, @11:26PM
Yep, research in the UK is showing that >20% of covid "admissions" are actually in-hospital infections.
Knock out the in-hospital transmission routes (thought to be primarily asymptomatic staff) and you instantly not only save lives but also ease the load on the hospitals (improving outcomes for everyone, including non-covid conditions) regardless of what happens out in the community.
The direct pay off in lives will be higher too, because people who are sick enough to be in hospital already (in a pandemic) will be at far higher risk from covid than your average working delivery driver. Pretty sure I've seen figures that in-treatment cancer patients who catch covid have >33% death rate.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday December 11 2020, @11:56PM (6 children)
Agreed - medical workers have to come first. That seems so obvious, it really needs no explanation. Everyone else comes in a distant third to medical workers. I guess those leading the distant third place would be people most at risk, then essential workers, and of course, those two might overlap.
I don't much care what order the remainder get into, as long as we put lawyers and politicians at the back of the line. If we're really really lucky, half or more of them will die before we get around to them.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @12:28AM (5 children)
20% of tested grocery workers in a recent study tested positive despite a lack of symptoms. Giving it first to medical workers had more to do with feeling good and having guinea pigs than any practical purpose. Prioritizing a bunch of people that likely already have effective means of protecting themselves and are paid to deal with the risks doesn't make for the kind of slam dunk automatic conclusion you think. There are legitimate reasons to prioritize them, but by the same token, it doesn't take that many workers dealing with the food supply to make for mass starvation.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2020, @03:03AM (4 children)
True, as far as you go. But, we've read a number of stories regarding burnout in the medical professions. They are short handed, overworked, and understaffed. Among first responders, we've read several stories where ~30% of some police departments have been diagnosed with COVID. Firefighters, ambulance, and any other emergency people you might think of. Alright, so I'm outside of the medical profession per se, but first responders and emergency personnel should come very high on the rankings.
I've not read of any shortage of grocery shoppers, grocery delivery, in-store grocery workers, or food distribution people, except for meat plant workers.
My understanding of triage says, you put your resources where they will do the most good. I'm not convinced that Uber understands triage. Nor am I convinced that grocery workers, wherever they fit into the new scheme of things, should be ranked ahead of medical.
Maybe there is no "right answer", so you and I will just have to disagree. ;^)
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @02:53PM
There IS a shortage in the grocery field, though, at least in-store. Some people have gone off on covid relief, leaving the rest to work over-time and are starting to burn out. It's been basically a year now with almost no time off. A lot of workers are burning out.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @04:37PM (2 children)
If we're actually going to solve the problem here, grocery workers need to be amongst the first vaccinated just because we're pretty much the only workers that normal people can't avoid coming into contact with. There's definitely a shortage and many of those that do work in grocery stores shouldn't be due to being at a high risk of complications. There hasn't been a point in the pandemic when we haven't had advertising going for jobs starting immediately and thanks to the overly generous benefits that were given to the unemployed, many people were making more than we were busting our humps at work. At this point, I think I've finally made more money than I would have gotten on unemployment, but that took months and a ton of hard work to happen.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Saturday December 12 2020, @07:35PM (1 child)
Right now in some subcultures, its incredibly politically incorrect to notice COVID has different effects on difference age groups.
That kind of thoughtcrime will get you outright burned at the stake in a dump like reddit. May as well start posting 13% 50% memes.
Science and engineering is not allowed as a part of covid policy at this time. See also magic masks as an object of religious veneration.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2020, @08:05AM
Aww racist alt-right nutjobs circle jerking their opinionated nonsense. Par for SN.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @09:59AM
maybe if self-service surgery or ICU care were a viable thing...
(Score: 2) by Tokolosh on Saturday December 12 2020, @03:51PM
Top of the list should be the people making the vaccine, followed by those distributing it, followed by those injecting it. I'll let you carry on with the work of completing the list from the top.
Meanwhile, I am compiling a list from the bottom, who should get the vaccine last. Here we go, starting from last:
Lawyers
Politicians (of all stripes)
Influencers
Celebrities (persons who a well-known for being well-known)
Administrators
Telemarketers
Clergy
Chickenhawks
Neo-anythings
Central bankers
....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @01:19AM
I agree with you that folks who are forced to come in contact with others should be prioritized. That includes grocery store workers and medical/emergency personnel.
It also includes those forced to work in schools where there are in-person classes AND any students who are required to attend in-person, prison guards and inmates, care home workers (in large part so they do not bring the illness to the residents who cannot be vaccinated) and residents.
And, because these folks can't choose to just not work, all the workers at non-essential jobs, but are still forced to interact with the public because their workplaces remained open, like bar tenders, restaurant staff, retail workers, clerks at filling stations, etc.
Folks like me who reside in a non-institutional setting, and get to work from home, should be lower on the list than any of the above.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @06:13AM
Look at the guidelines for your state, but they should be similar to the advisory panel guidance. After direct exposures, indirect exposures, and long-term care residents, which are the ones at highest risk of infection and can be easily monitored for adverse events, are the essential workers and high risk groups. Said essential workers are prioritized by risk exposure as well. But according to your department of health, grocery store workers, among others, are probably included in phase 1B or early 2A depending on the numbering scheme used. That is before general availability and grocery workers in major cities are easily receiving some of the first 100 million doses.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday December 12 2020, @09:15PM
I've said that for a while now. My daughter manages a Dollar General, and even though I'm 68 and in danger of dying if I caught it (but not much danger of catching it, who would I catch it from?), my daughter who is half my age should get it first, because she's at far greater risk of catching it and if she catches it, she's at great risk of killing people.
I agree, hospitals and nursing homes first, but then folks who work with the public.
As to Uber, people in hell want ice water. How are they better than taxi drivers and cops? Nobody's forcing you to take that second job, you greedy SOB.
Carbon, The only element in the known universe to ever gain sentience
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Sunday December 13 2020, @01:58AM (1 child)
My understanding is that grocers and restaurant staff and other food supply folks are in line right after health care workers.
One reason health care workers get to go before other essential employees is that if they get Covid, they can't treat other people, and that means that a lot more people don't get treatment and die. You know how that survival rate has been going up over the last 7 months? That's doctors and nurses learning how to treat Covid patients.
Also fairly high on the list should be prison guards, because many of the major outbreaks have been in prisons, and the guards brought Covid into the prison.
Ride-share drivers shouldn't be considered essential, though, by any stretch of the imagination: It is entirely possible to travel places without them, using private vehicles or the public transit system or feet. And before you say "but you need to inoculate bus drivers too", yes you do, but that's about 200,000 people versus Uber's 2.5 million drivers.
And I write this as someone quite comfortable with the fact that I'll be one of the last people to get vaccinated, because I work from home on a business which is absolutely 100% non-essential to human life.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2020, @09:59AM
According to a briefing meeting, grocery store workers in the US fall under the 1B classification of the recommendations. However, states come up with their own guidance as to the distribution of the vaccines within the state. Most (all?) have done so and most that I have seen to compare to ours are almost identical to the federal guidance. There are some deviations, though, as to who is considered high risk and essential. If you compare states you will find that some classify grocery store workers as somewhere in their second phase. They are worth looking at just for your own enlightenment, especially as to why different groups were chosen for the different levels.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 11 2020, @10:08PM (1 child)
But can't anyone drive for Uber? Should everyone with the app installed get priority? People who meet some minimum threshold of rides/deliveries delivered?
Seems weird that he's advocating for a bunch of independent contractors he has no other relationship with.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2020, @02:39PM
That's likely the real reason, they want to have even more folks driving for them so they can drive the rates even lower.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 11 2020, @10:48PM
we promise not to turn it into a shameless marketing ploy.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Friday December 11 2020, @10:52PM (16 children)
I'm not anti vac, but IMHO the more folks that take this vaccine before I have to the better. I'll take it, but I'm gonna delay taking it as long as I can.
First, there is a reason drug trials drag on for years.
Second, I'm betting that millions in weeks will show the same issues that hundreds in years will.
Third, mRNA. The example was "your given a car door, your car will not turn into a door". My counter example: "Your given a tire. That tire works fine for 6 months, then disintegrates at freeway speeds".
I plan to take the vaccine, but also plan to put it off for as long a I can.
I came. I saw. I forgot why I came.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 11 2020, @11:40PM (6 children)
I was planning on putting it off because it was clear that Trump wanted to push out ANYTHING before election day. Fuuuuck no. The FDA and the drug companies pushed back on that, which was reassuring, and they were building trust back up again. But today, Trump told the FDA head to approve the Pfizer vaccine today or tender his resignation. Fuuuuuck no.
I'm like you, I'll take it too, but I'll wait in the back of the line.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 11 2020, @11:57PM (5 children)
Look worst case you get
autismcovid which you probably will anyway if you don't take it. Or do you think it's loaded with microchips?(Score: 2) by leon_the_cat on Saturday December 12 2020, @12:03AM (4 children)
From wikipedia
An RNA vaccine or mRNA (messenger RNA) vaccine is a new type of vaccine that transfects molecules of synthetic RNA into human cells. Once inside the cells, the RNA functions as mRNA, reprogramming the cells to make the foreign protein that would normally be produced by the pathogen (e.g. a virus)… These protein molecules then stimulate an adaptive immune response that teaches the body to destroy any pathogen.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @02:21AM (3 children)
Wait.... it is mRNA too? Yeah I am going to wait that one out a bit.
We have 50+ years of vaccinations that work. This one has been rushed.
I am already hearing rumors of 'you have to wear masks anyway because you will still get it but it will not kill you but you could give it to others'. At that point *who* *cares*. Plus an effective rate of 95% on something that is 99.9% likely to NOT kill me. But you should socially isolate. Well have been doing that since the March 3 week flatten the curve. Its fucking december now and the numbers are 'going up like crazy'. It does not fucking matter anymore. The 'vaccination' is a waste of my time and one that has a decent chance of fucking me up somehow because it was a rush job. Already cant smell anything because of something I picked up in Jan that flattened me out for 3 days.
(Score: 2) by leon_the_cat on Saturday December 12 2020, @04:06AM (1 child)
Well just as extra here is how they get that 95%...some creative accounting at best
Pfizer says it recorded 170 covid-19 cases (in 44,000 volunteers), with a remarkable split: 162 in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group. Meanwhile Moderna says 95 of 30,000 volunteers in its ongoing trial got covid-19: 90 on placebo versus 5 receiving the vaccine, leading both companies to claim around 95% efficacy.
(Score: 2) by leon_the_cat on Saturday December 12 2020, @04:33AM
Hmm I should not have written "some creative accounting at best" my mistake I should read more carefully.
Some other highlights
1) Children, adolescents, and immunocompromised individuals were largely excluded from the trials.
2) Vaccine performance was only tested for ~1 months not the more standard 12 months.
3)Moderna’s press release states that 9% experienced grade 3 myalgia and 10% grade 3 fatigue; Pfizer’s statement reported 3.8% experienced grade 3 fatigue and 2% grade 3 headache. Grade 3 adverse events are considered severe, defined as preventing daily activity. Mild and moderate severity reactions are bound to be far more common.
4) The trial protocols for Moderna and Pfizer’s studies contain explicit language instructing investigators to use their clinical judgment to decide whether to refer people for testing!!!!!!!! ok i just read this one, wtf? seriously?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2020, @08:57PM
Just curious, have you been tested for covid antibodies since then?
It's certainly not the only thing that can knock out your sense of smell and taste, but that is a characteristic of it, and there seems to be a small but significant amount of evidence suggesting there were various scattered outbreaks of covid19, or a similar predecessor, around the world even before it went pandemic in Wuhan.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by leon_the_cat on Friday December 11 2020, @11:50PM (6 children)
Why do you even mention anti-vac? Are you scared of being attacked by pharma lobby? mRNA has no relation to traditional vaccine so its irrelevant anyway. Personally I think you have to be pretty stupid to accept a rushed, untested and untried technology that may offer very little(if any) protection. Already in the UK groups being told NOT to take it include under 16s, pregnant women and people with allergies or compromised immune systems. Add to this they have now been forced to put resuscitation areas in any place where anyone is administering it and you may ask yourself quite what is going on.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2020, @12:02AM (3 children)
I'm allergic to needles. Can I get my vax in a chocolate flavor, like an Oreo cookie, maybe?
More seriously, I think the vaxes have all been rushed, starting with Russia's Sputnik. I'd rather not get a vax at all. Just hang around, see how many people drop dead from the vaccinations, see how many more drop dead from the COVIDS, and maybe pick up the pieces afterward. Unless I die, of course, then it's all somebody else's problem. ;^)
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Saturday December 12 2020, @07:46PM (2 children)
Likely to be an interesting age cutoff where below "some" age the odds of dying from the vaccine will be higher than dying from the disease and vice versa above that age.
Certainly, more children and 20-somethings will die of the vaccine than from COVID. The COVID numbers are so low and "allergic reactions" to well tested vaccines are so much higher...
I remember at one point in the summer only 16 people in the 20-something decade had died so far of COVID in the USA. The number now since masked school opened is about a thousand out of three million cases. You can't distribute three million cans of beer to twenty-somethings without killing more of them than that LOL. MMR vaccine for example gives kids seizures at a rate three times higher than COVID kills 20-somethings.
Its just interesting that for anyone under, perhaps, 50, more people are going to die or get sick from the vaccine even under ideal conditions than will from COVID.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday December 12 2020, @08:27PM (1 child)
You have a point there.
I wonder . . . how many people have ever met a person who WAS killed by a vaccine? I met one little boy for sure, and another who was severely mentally disabled, likely due to a vaccine. Children's Hospital confirmed that the boy who died was a reaction to the vax. The other child, his doctors and industry people fought hard to disprove that the vax was at fault.
Vaccinations DO KILL. Their only justification is, more people would die without them.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Saturday December 12 2020, @08:39PM
And given the incredible tilt in death rates vs age for COVID we're gonna kill a lot of kids to save a much larger number of very old people.
As if there's not enough "generational warfare" already, LOL.
Not all the reactions are either 100% health or 100% dead. Something like 1 in 1000 kids who get the MMR vaccine, which is pretty safe, have fever related seizure a couple days after, and then grow up (mostly?) OK. So its not just killing one grandchild to save all the grandparents, its going to be a lot of generic sickness type stuff.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @12:26AM (1 child)
My guess is because "taking vaccinations" has become a religious thing where mindless following is encouraged and dissent is not tolerated (which isn't such a bad thing since most vaccines are useful and most people are stupid). But it's still ironically similar to the antivaxxer mindset.
Those who can think know that vaccines aren't the same. There are those that are known to be safe, cheap and protect for many years. And there are those that only protect for a year or even just a few months. There are those that quickly make it less likely for you to spread disease; and there are those that don't - you can still spread the disease to others for days even if you don't get sick. You become an asymptomatic/low symptom carrier[1].
I suggest before considering taking a covid-19 vaccine, get the covid-19 antibody test first. You might somehow have got covid-19 and recovered from it already. If you have then there's even less reason to take the vaccine. Till your immunity goes away at least...
[1] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/11/whooping-cough-vaccine-does-not-stop-spread-disease-lab-animals [sciencemag.org]
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150624071018.htm [sciencedaily.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @12:31AM
Getting vaccinated makes sense even for those that have had it as there's no guarantee that the illness created a strong enough response to create lasting protection.
That being said, it probably also means that it makes sense to wait so those with no protection can get those initial doses.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @03:59PM (1 child)
Not raring to take the rushed vaccines makes you an antivax, Trump-supporting, murdering, racist, exploiter, science-denier in today's society.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2020, @08:02AM
Oh really?
You fucktarded dumbshits need to interact with the real world a bit more.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday December 12 2020, @12:29AM (21 children)
This is nothing more than a cynical ploy to garner some public sympathy. Uber is one of the worst examples I've seen yet of bypassing what few standards and regulations around workers' rights still exist in this country, by having their workforce placed into a hazy grey shadow zone, the workers' equivalent of "unlawful combatant."
Medical workers need this first, starting with ER personnel, EMTs, elder-care facility workers, and any nurse working in any hospital unit with covid patients. Next should come other frontline workers (like, juuuuust for example, your friendly neighborhood inpatient pharmacy tech...), then grocery store workers, bus/train operators, and public servants such as police.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Informative) by legont on Saturday December 12 2020, @02:41AM (19 children)
You assume the vaccine actually works and is safe, don't you?
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Taibhsear on Saturday December 12 2020, @11:01AM (17 children)
Don't need to assume. The data gathered so far shows it is safe and effective. Do you have study results that shows contrary evidence? If so please produce it.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 12 2020, @01:15PM
After 2 months of test time, the limited data to date shows mostly effective and mostly no side effects. But from the FDA meeting notes, a few still got the virus and/or side effects.
The EUA seems basically permission to continue the trial on a much larger number of folks. More months and folks should provide a more complete picture of safe and effective. Note that pharma would not do this without a liability waver. The administration is taking a gamble to get the country back up sooner. The odds seem reasonable, but the stakes are quite high. Consider the small chance that they dose all the medical and emergency folks and there is an incapicating side effect 6 months out...
(Score: 3, Informative) by leon_the_cat on Saturday December 12 2020, @04:00PM (2 children)
from the BMJ questioning effectiveness
https://www.collective-evolution.com/2020/12/08/british-medical-journal-editor-calls-into-question-pfizer-modernas-95-effective-covid-vaccines/ [collective-evolution.com]
From Uk gov showing stating its not known to be safe for many
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-not-safe-for-pregnant-or-breastfeeding-mums-potential-danger-for-fertility [lifesitenews.com]
(Score: 2) by Taibhsear on Sunday December 13 2020, @02:55PM (1 child)
First link boils down to the final statement:
So they are questioning the blindness of the study and personally want to see more of the data. They also take issue with not having data on things that they haven't tested yet due to the fact that they can't have the data yet because the vaccine hasn't even existed for long enough to get that data yet. This is the whole point of the fast-track to get the vaccine approved before more people die in the 3-7 years it'll take to vet the vaccine the usual way. Baby steps.
Second link is normal for any vaccine. They need to wait for more data before they risk deeming it safe for pregnant and nursing mothers. As long as the rest of society that the vaccine is safe for gets the vaccine then the pregnant mothers and infants should be safe through herd immunity. And then when they are no longer pregnant, nursing, or an infant, they can then get the vaccine, barring any other circumstances that would make it unsafe for them to do so. This is not out of the ordinary.
(Score: 2) by leon_the_cat on Sunday December 13 2020, @07:02PM
I will just point out the following from first link:
"This assumes all people with symptoms would be tested, as one might expect would be the case. However the trial protocols for Moderna and Pfizer’s studies contain explicit language instructing investigators to use their clinical judgment to decide whether to refer people for testing. Moderna puts it this way:
“It is important to note that some of the symptoms of COVID-19 overlap with solicited systemic ARs that are expected after vaccination with mRNA-1273 (eg, myalgia, headache, fever, and chills). During the first 7 days after vaccination, when these solicited ARs are common, Investigators should use their clinical judgement to decide if an NP swab should be collected.”
(Score: 2, Interesting) by legont on Saturday December 12 2020, @04:47PM (8 children)
We are talking about a brand new technology here - messenger RNA. It literally programs cells to produce foreign proteins. The same tech could be used to do quite a few very scary things. For example, one can vaccinate ones army against a virus that does not exist yet and only then produce and use the virus for an attack. Or how about saliva glands generating cobra poison? Only fantasy is the limit. This tech is also reasonably simple and cheap so any organization could do it including hackers space.
Normally such a tech would not be permitted at all or at least tested and discussed for decades. Here we are about to use it on half of the world's population. Perhaps time has come and there is no other way. Perhaps we will be lucky. However, I have a bad feelings it's just a beginning. I am sure only lazy is not designing new viruses and vaccines for them right now. It proved to be very effective.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday December 13 2020, @12:43AM (3 children)
You think none of this ever occurred to me? If it weren't for the fact that I refuse to compromise on sleep, all of these potential answers to the Fermi Paradox would be keeping me up at night (well, during the day, I do third shift).
Cobra venom in the salivary glands sounds like a really bad idea though. We have no fangs and biting our own tongues would be painfully and slowly lethal. I wouldn't mind something that converts white adipose tissue into mottled or brown, though.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by legont on Sunday December 13 2020, @01:50AM (1 child)
People carry razor blades in their mouth 24x7 and spit them into enemy - typically police - faces from meters away so they cut right above eyes and blood covers them. Adding a bit of poison to it is a nice touch. It's just a question of simple additional training to never bite oneself.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by Taibhsear on Sunday December 13 2020, @03:08PM
Why would anyone go through this absurd process when they could just buy a gun and shoot them?
(Score: 2) by legont on Sunday December 13 2020, @02:08AM
However my point was that Western countries reacted as usual - psycho style. Let's develop nuclear bombs and use them style. Meantime Russians and Chinese used perhaps less efficient but proven technologies to inject their populations with. They reacted as responsible adults, not as teenager nuts on substances. Messing with cell protein generation programming in 6 months. Nice plan indeed.
Perhaps we will have zombie apocalypse after all.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Taibhsear on Sunday December 13 2020, @02:24PM (3 children)
Your lack of knowledge of basic cell biology is glaringly obvious. Messenger RNA is not a "new technology." It's how all cells make protein. DNA is transcribed into RNA which is used to translate into protein. Nobody is using this to make cobra venom spitting hackerspace super soldiers. Put down the comic book and pick up a biology textbook.
(Score: 3, Informative) by legont on Sunday December 13 2020, @10:45PM (2 children)
Technology does not mean what you think it does.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 14 2020, @08:10AM
Oh boy, got a self-righteous blowhard on our hands. Education, not just for coastal elites!
(Score: 1, Troll) by Taibhsear on Monday December 14 2020, @11:28AM
It clearly doesn't mean what you imagine it does. Regardless of how many times someone decides facts and reality are trolling them.
(Score: 3, Disagree) by VLM on Saturday December 12 2020, @07:50PM (3 children)
Well, we already know they lied to us about masks.
Just put on a bandana and go to school and save the economy by shopping, they said. Next thing you know infections increased x8 times since return to school. Oh masks don't work to prevent disease spread? Just like gun control all that means is we need more masks "of course".
Nobody on the TV never lied to nobody never, that's what MSNBC told me...
(Score: 3, Touché) by legont on Sunday December 13 2020, @01:56AM (2 children)
CDC haven't decided if vitamin D helps for a few decades, but suddenly "scientifically" discovered that masks do. Against a virus? A new one? Total BS designed to scary population into submission. It's actually has a name - mass harassment.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Taibhsear on Sunday December 13 2020, @02:18PM (1 child)
Yes. Because they did new research. That's now science works. We don't just decide something one day and it's set in stone tablets forever. When you learn new things you use that new knowledge to improve things. Analysis has shown a correlation between low vitamin D levels in people with severe covid symptoms. There are plenty of new studies that have shown that, yes, masks work to reduce the spread of the water droplets that carry the viral particles. These are facts. Not propaganda. Stop getting your information from conspiracy sites.
Scare them into submission to what end? What's the endgame you imagine for this hypothesis? What grand evil scheme begins with putting a piece of cloth over your pie hole?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 13 2020, @09:11PM
Simple: shape-shifting aliens.
The aliens don't have vocal systems capable of reproducing human speech. They're able to create a mouth-like organ and conceal a voice synthesizer (tech has come a long way from Hawking's squawkbox) within it, but unfortunately they just can't get the hang of lip-synching.
Now that they're normalizing masks, they're finally able to walk among us unnoticed -- that they can also eliminate and replace specific individuals is just a nice bonus.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday December 12 2020, @12:38PM
^ What Taibshear said.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday December 12 2020, @03:00PM
Yep! We have never used Uber or DoorDash or any of those 'gig economy' things, but we have 'used' doctors and nurses.
Uber is NOT a necessity. They are NOT front-line workers.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---