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posted by
n1
on Monday September 29 2014, @03:13PM
from the wasn't-looking,-too-busy-listening dept.
from the wasn't-looking,-too-busy-listening dept.
Time reports on statements made by President Obama during an interview:
When asked about comments by the Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who has said the U.S. overestimated the ability and will of the Iraqi military to fight the extremist group, Obama said, “That’s true,” Mr. Obama said. “That’s absolutely true.”
Obama had already admitted that the rise of ISIS took the U.S. by surprise. “I think that there is no doubt that their advance, their movement over the last several months has been more rapid than the intelligence estimates and I think the expectations of policymakers both in and outside of Iraq,”
Statement by the President on Iraq: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/08/09/statement-president-iraq
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Obama Admits U.S. Intelligence Didn’t See ISIS Coming
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Now KEN and BARBIE are PERMANENTLY ADDICTED to MIND-ALTERING DRUGS ...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 29 2014, @03:28PM
(1) Anyone who has been paying attention to Iraq knew that trouble was brewing, even I, just a casual reader of news knew that the shia prime-minister Maliki was pissing off the sunnis in the north by playing the same old tribal bullshit for like the last five years. You can't just shit on people without consequences, so when ISIS came along the regular sunnis might not have been so happy with their fanatacism but given the choice between asshole shias and fanatics from their own tribe, of course they picked their own tribe. If the US really cared about democracy we would have put some strings on all the foreign aid money we drop-ship to Maliki's government and made them stop treating the sunnis like 2nd-class citizens.
(2) ISIS isn't a big threat to the US. But they do know how to use modern media to create terror. Behead a couple of guys on youtube and boom! americans shit their pants.
(3) The way to win this fight is not more bombing, it is to disconnect ISIS from the support of the locals. Start fixing the problems that Maliki caused, make the sunnis feel like citizens of Iraq again by giving them representation and a fair share of government services and they will stop looking the other way when the fanatics do their shit. It took Maliki, et al a few years to make ISIS attractive to regular sunnis, its going to take a few years to make ISIS unattractive. Bombing them, especially with all the collateral damage that comes with drone strikes, isn't going to change anyone's opinions. And in the long run, opinions are all that matter.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 29 2014, @04:37PM
All I hear is Iraq, Iraq, Iraq. How about the west stops funding "rebels" in Syria.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 29 2014, @06:08PM
Summary: http://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ByW-gTFCEAAGNxe.jpg [thepoke.co.uk]
(from: http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2014/09/25/are-you-confused-by-what-is-going-on-in-the-middle-east/ [thepoke.co.uk] )
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tathra on Monday September 29 2014, @06:10PM
maybe not at the moment, but we supplied, funded, and trained the taliban, and specifically osama bin laden, too. everything we gave to the taliban was used against us by al qaeda; while they're not the same group, they shared a lot of resources, at least leading up to our liberation of afghanistan*. i'm not sure if we supplied and trained ISIS specifically (there were suggestions to), but at any rate we have a concrete example that training and supplying "moderate" rebel groups can come back to bite us in the ass. i dont really feel like digging for the sources at the moment, but US intelligence knew that foreigners were planning to fly planes into buildings as an attack 6 months before it actually happened, and they did nothing to stop it; chances are, especially now that the government has gone completely rogue, that some people would be counting on some of those groups we supply and train to threaten the US, to use to their political advantage. if ISIS is being used to push unconstitutional actions and furthering the police state, then it is a very big threat to the US.
regarding your point 3, "disconnect... from the support of the locals", thats the exact message in the counter-insurgency training manuals that are handed out before any US soldiers go overseas, and it sums up to "hearts and minds"; i still try to fight to support that concept, but too many people, civilians and soldiers alike, mock the idea and just want an excuse to kill people.
* i'm using my own experiences with civilian population here, not the propaganda. when civilians regularly come up to you to say "thank you" (and not as a probe in order to attack), thats a liberation.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 29 2014, @08:02PM
> but at any rate we have a concrete example that training and supplying "moderate" rebel groups can come back to bite us in the ass.
I don't see how you get from the US giving rocket launchers to the Taliban to a handful of university students using boxcutters to take over a couple of airplanes.
Sure, after we decided to invade afghanistan we ended up facing what weapons had survived the ~20 intervening years, but if we hadn't decided to invade we never would have ended up on the wrong end of those weapons.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 30 2014, @05:43AM
ISIS isn't a big threat to the US.
maybe not at the moment, but we supplied, funded, and trained the taliban, and specifically osama bin laden, too. everything we gave to the taliban was used against us by al qaeda;
Summary: the USA is the greatest threat to the USA.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Monday September 29 2014, @09:12PM
Bombing them, especially with all the collateral damage that comes with drone strikes, isn't going to change anyone's opinions.
I'm not buying it. I don't see why it wouldn't deter newcomers if, say, 60% of ISIS recruits died within a year. Maybe I'm not thinking religious-crazy enough, but I'd be far less likely to 'enlist' if I knew my odds of survival were pitiful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 30 2014, @03:30PM
That's because you don't believe what they believe. What you consider a problem, they consider an opportunity.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Shahid#Benefits_of_Martyrdom [wikiislam.net]
Ubada bin Samit narrates, that the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said, “The shaheed is granted seven gifts from Allah:
1) He is forgiven at the first drop of his blood.
2) He sees his status in Jannah. [Paradise]
3) He is dressed in the clothes of Iman.
4) He is safe from the punishment of the grave.
5) He will be safe from the Great fear of the Day of Judgment.
6) A crown of honor will be placed on his head.
7) He will intercede on behalf of 70 members of his family.”
See also: http://english.astroawani.com/news/show/we-shall-meet-in-jannah-malaysian-woman-reveals-married-life-with-isis-militant-44247 [astroawani.com]
She relayed a story of a friend named Umm Habiba, who lost her husband in a jihad. Instead of grieving, the widow was happy and celebrated her husband’s death because it means that that he has ‘become a syahid.
“We entered the house where I saw almost 20 sisters. Nobody cried. Everyone was smiling. The house smells good. The kids seemed happy and there were plenty of foods strewn on the floor. I was astonished, puzzled.
Shams described the widow as joyful, wore nice clothes and had makeup and jewelleries on when she visited her.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Thursday October 02 2014, @12:17PM
If your friends and family are in that 60%, you'd probably want to do something to get back at whoever killed them...