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Journal by DeathMonkey
President Joe Biden will announce an end Thursday to U.S. support for a grinding five-year Saudi-led military offensive in Yemen that has deepened human suffering in the Arabian peninsula’s poorest country, national security adviser Jake Sullivan said.
Biden ending US support for Saudi-led offensive in Yemen
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Forms follow function, and often obliterate it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday February 05 2021, @09:56PM (4 children)
Which isn't saying much since that democracy got into trouble in the first place because they stole a massive amount of oil infrastructure from the UK. That's not reasonable in the first place.
You could also point out that it was done on US soil and therefore makes it somehow a US scheme, right? What you insinuate is irrelevant without evidence to back it up. The citizenship of some terrorists doesn't imply national involvement. And as far as "exporting" terrorism goes, I have to go with Iran as the bigger player due to their explicit support for Hezbollah and Hamas (particularly, the "military wing" which is classified widely as a terrorist organization).
The other choice given here was Israel and Iran. Only one of these three states is a democracy. The other two are pretty ugly (though I grant the republic structure of Iran is relatively more appealing in the long run than the monarchy of Saudi Arabia). And only one, Saudi Arabia is willing to play ball with Israel.
I recall someone asking "When does someone have to be good for us to have relations with them?" There's two problems with statements like this. First, it cheapens the meaning of genocide. Yes, there are serious war crimes (particularly attacks on what appear to be civilian targets). No, the war crimes do not amount to a case of genocide.
Second, the choice we were alleged to be given was Saudi Arabia and Israel, or Iran. If you could make a case for Iran and Israel, then I would be interested since that would imply some serious progress towards peace in the Middle East.
My take is that any lasting peace will require the effort of all the major powers of the area: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, and Israel. And that may well require getting rid some of the more odious governments of the region, particularly Saudi Arabia's monarchy and Iran's theocracy. But right now the place is such a disaster that we're stuck working with who's there. Presently, for all their evil, Saudi Arabia has better connections, more interest in peace, and a better history than Iran does.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 06 2021, @08:07AM (2 children)
Dude. Think.
I come onto your land, I shoot you. I build oil pumps, I give your kid a cent or two on the dollar. I treat him like shit, boss him around, and eventually he just throws me off.
He keeps the oil pumps, well the 1 in 10 that I didn't manage to sabotage on the way out.
He "stole" them? Really?
This is boot licker logic. I thought better of you. Boot liquor, fine, but boot licker, no.
"The citizenship of some terrorists doesn't imply national involvement."
Sure, sure, just because most of them came from KSA doesn't mean the KSA government sent them. No necessarily.
What's funny is how the information about whether or not they were *actually* backed by the KSA government is still classified.
It's not that "we" don't know. "We" just decided not to tell you. Now shut up and forget about it.
"Second, the choice we were alleged to be given was Saudi Arabia and Israel, or Iran. If you could make a case for Iran and Israel, then I would be interested since that would imply some serious progress towards peace in the Middle East."
If I'm understanding this right you left a word out. A case for Iran and Israël coöperating? We've only been partners for centuries. Iran is the only large Muslim country that still has a significant Jewish population, and doesn't suppress them (at least notably moreso than the rest of the population.) Jews and Persians have been living side by side and respecting each other in Iran for well over 2k years. There's no reason the countries should not coöperate as well, in the large view. In the small view, they do not coöperate because the Israëli government feels perfectly safe within their US umbrella, feels no need to compromise with anyone.
Remove that US umbrella, let Yisraël feel fear for a moment, let us think who else might help us.
Oh Lord, the Persians. Sucks we've spent nearly 100 years making enemies of them. I really hope they can forgive.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 06 2021, @01:03PM (1 child)
This is what makes it theft. It wasn't that kid's oil pumps. The rest of that paragraph is just rhetorical flavor.
The non-retarded approach would have been to tax the oil wells. UK and the US wouldn't have sponsored a coup if there was a reasonable tax and regulation of those oil wells instead of a larcenous seizure of the whole deal.
Further, we just need to look at present day Venezuela to see where the "democracy" of Iran would have gone, if that coup hadn't succeeded. The present Venezuelan government succeeded where that Iranian government failed. And it's turned into a man-made disaster with something like 6 million refugees over the past ten years.
And by "backed" you mean what? If you merely mean that you don't know, well, so what? If you mean specific actions such as planning, funding, etc were carried out, then you'll need evidence not its lack.
I present as counterevidence, the fact [wikipedia.org] that the Jewish population in Iran went from ~140-150k in 1948 to under 10k by 2012, and the fact that Iran has been sponsoring enemies of Israel for decades (Hezbollah and Hamas). While there might have been this 2k years of peaceful cooperation, that no longer exists. And it sure looks to me like Iran is to blame.
Even in such a scenario, why in the world would they turn to Iran? Saudi Arabia (and perhaps Turkey and Egypt) still provides the better deal at present. That may include eventual nuclear weapon technology transfer, should (or rather when) Iran finally succeed at developing viable nuclear weapons.
I tire of how many decades of bad behavior on the part of Iran is excused merely because they got treated bad way back when. Iran needs to change.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 06 2021, @05:12PM
Actually, you're wrong. You build oil pumps on *my* land, those are *my* pumps buddy. Don't like it? Don't build on my land.
"And by "backed" you mean what? If you merely mean that you don't know, well, so what? If you mean specific actions such as planning, funding, etc were carried out, then you'll need evidence not its lack."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_28_pages
"I present as counterevidence, the fact [wikipedia.org] that the Jewish population in Iran went from ~140-150k in 1948 to under 10k by 2012"
Yes, many have left, for one country or another, for one reason or another. But they're neither expelled nor held, they're free to leave or to stay.
"While there might have been this 2k years of peaceful cooperation, that no longer exists."
No, it still exists, but it's between the peoples, not the states. The states hate each other, that's obvious.
"And it sure looks to me like Iran is to blame."
Only if your view is thoroughly coloured by the other sides propaganda. The Israëli state has some rather peculiar ideas, and it hasn't been at all shy about promoting propaganda to confuse the issues. That state has tried several times to spark an exodus from Iran, but it's never been successful there - as it has been elsewhere in the arab world.
"Saudi Arabia (and perhaps Turkey and Egypt) still provides the better deal at present."
Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Egypt are oppressive ethnic states that actively discriminate against and persecute Jews. The Israëli state *likes* this because it gives them ready made excuses for implementing an ethnic state themselves, and discriminating against and persecuting arabs. "See, there's tons of nations for arabs, there's even several for Turks, there's only one for Jews" they like to say. Our neighbors sins provide covers for our own, you see.
But a decent state, a state of its citizens in that place, would be much more interested in dealing with a nation which is closer to our own ideals, which is not actively oppressive and tyrannical. And Iran would fit that bill much better than any of the states you mentioned.
"should (or rather when) Iran finally succeed at developing viable nuclear weapons."
If Iran wanted a nuclear weapon, they would have had one long before now.
The real reason they don't have one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei%27s_fatwa_against_nuclear_weapons
"I tire of how many decades of bad behavior on the part of Iran is excused merely because they got treated bad way back when. Iran needs to change."
Iran could say the same of you. How impressed would you be? How likely to care?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @07:36PM
Oh, dear!
FTFY!
But it pissed of the Brits and their failing Empire, so the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (Now know as BP, British (former Empire) Petroleum) called in Kermit and the CIA, because the one thing American and the Rotting British Empire cannot stand, is democracy. That, and cleaning up massive Gulf oil-spills from exploding ocean platforms.