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The bonus episode in the Off the rails - quite impressive series of investigative journalism
About this series: Our reporting is based on multiple interviews with current and former White House, campaign, government and congressional officials as well as direct eyewitnesses and people close to the president. Sources have been granted anonymity to share sensitive observations or details they would not be formally authorized to disclose. President Trump and other officials to whom quotes and actions have been attributed by others were provided the opportunity to confirm, deny or respond to reporting elements prior to publication.
As Powell and the others entered the Oval Office that evening, Herschmann — a wealthy business executive and former partner at Kasowitz Benson & Torres who'd been pulled out of quasi-retirement to advise Trump — quietly slipped in behind them.
The hours to come would pit the insurgent conspiracists against a handful of White House lawyers and advisers determined to keep the president from giving in to temptation to invoke emergency national security powers, seize voting machines and disable the primary levers of American democracy.
Herschmann took a seat in a yellow chair close to the doorway. Powell, Flynn, Newman and Byrne sat in a row before the Resolute Desk, facing the president.
...
Powell began this meeting with the same baseless claim that now has her facing a $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit: She told the president that Dominion Voting Systems had rigged their machines to flip votes from Trump to Biden and that it was part of an international communist plot to steal the election for the Democrats.
...
She proposed declaring a national security emergency, granting her and her cabal top-secret security clearances and using the U.S. government to seize Dominion’s voting machines."Hold on a minute, Sidney," Herschmann interrupted from the back of the Oval. "You're part of the Rudy team, right? Is your theory that the Democrats got together and changed the rules, or is it that there was foreign interference in our election?
...
"It's foreign interference," Powell insisted, then added: "Rudy hasn't understood what this case is about until just now."In disbelief, Herschmann yelled out to an aide in the outer Oval Office. "Get Pat down here immediately!" Several minutes later, White House counsel Pat Cipollone walked into the Oval. He looked at Byrne and said, "Who are you?"
The meeting was already getting heated.
...
But Powell, fixing on Trump, continued to elaborate on a fantastical election narrative involving Venezuela, Iran, China and others. She named a county in Georgia where she claimed she could prove that Dominion had illegally flipped the vote.Herschmann interrupted to point out that Trump had actually won the Georgia county in question: "So your theory is that Dominion intentionally flipped the votes so we could win that county?"
As for Powell's larger claims, he demanded she provide evidence for what — if true — would amount to the greatest national security breach in American history. They needed to dial in one of the campaign's lawyers, Herschmann said, and Trump campaign lawyer Matt Morgan was patched in via speakerphone.
By now, people were yelling and cursing.
...
Flynn went berserk. The former three-star general, whom Trump had fired as his first national security adviser after he was caught lying to the FBI (and later pardoned), stood up and turned from the Resolute Desk to face Herschmann."You're quitting! You're a quitter! You're not fighting!” he exploded at the senior adviser. Flynn then turned to the president, and implored: "Sir, we need fighters."
Herschmann ignored Flynn at first and continued to probe Powell's pitch with questions about the underlying evidence. "All you do is promise, but never deliver," he said to her sharply.
Flynn was ranting, seemingly infuriated about anyone challenging Powell, who had represented him in his recent legal battles.
Finally Herschmann had enough. "Why the fuck do you keep standing up and screaming at me?" he shot back at Flynn. "If you want to come over here, come over here. If not, sit your ass down." Flynn sat back down.
The meeting had come entirely off the rails.
...
Byrne kept attacking the senior White House staff in front of Trump. "They've already abandoned you," he told the president aggressively. Periodically during the meeting Flynn or Byrne challenged Trump's top staff — portraying them as disloyal: So do you think the president won or not?At one point, with Flynn shouting, Byrne raised his hand to talk. He stood up and turned around to face Herschmann. "You're a quitter," he said. "You've been interfering with everything. You've been cutting us off."
"Do you even know who the fuck I am, you idiot?" Herschmann snapped back.
"Yeah, you're Patrick Cipollone," Byrne said.
"Wrong! Wrong, you idiot!"
...
Every judge is corrupt, she claimed. We can't rely on them. The White House lawyers couldn't believe what they were hearing. "That's your argument?" a stunned Herschmann said. "Even the judges we appointed? Are you out of your fucking mind?"Powell had more to say. She and Flynn began trashing the FBI as well, and the Justice Department under Attorney General Bill Barr, telling Trump that neither could be trusted. Both institutions, they said, were corrupt, and Trump needed to fire the leadership and get in new people he could trust.
...Trump, for his part, also seemed perplexed by Byrne. But he was not entirely convinced the ideas Powell was presenting were insane.
He asked: You guys are offering me nothing. These guys are at least offering me a chance. They’re saying they have the evidence. Why not try this? The president seemed truly to believe the election was stolen, and his overriding sentiment was, let's give this a shot.
...
Powell was arguing that they couldn't get a judge to enforce any subpoena to hand over the voting machines because all the judges were corrupt. She and her group repeatedly referred to the National Emergencies Act and a Trump executive order from 2018 that was designed to clear the way for the government to sanction foreign actors interfering in U.S. elections.
These laws were, in the view of Powell, Flynn and the others, the key to unlocking extraordinary powers for Trump to stay in office beyond Jan. 20.
Their theory was that because foreign enemies had stolen the election, all bets were off and Trump could use the full force of the United States government to go after Dominion.
...
"How exactly are you going to do this?" an exasperated Herschmann asked again, later in the conversation. Newman again cited the 2018 executive order, which prompted Herschmann to question out loud whether she was even a lawyer.
Then Byrne chimed in: "There are guys with big guns and badges who can get these things." Herschmann couldn't believe it. "What are you, three years old?" he asked.
...
At its essence, the Powell crew's argument to the president was this: We have the real information. These people — your White House staff — don't believe in the truth. They're liars and quitters. They're not willing to fight for you because they don't want to get their hands dirty. Put us in charge. Let us take control of everything. We'll prove to you that what we're saying is right. We won't quit, we'll fight. We're willing to fight for the presidency.On some level, this argument was music to Trump's ears. He was desperate. Powell and her team were the only people willing to tell him what he wanted to hear — that a path to stay in power in the White House remained.
...
Herschmann was primed to brawl and ready to dump on Powell. It had been a long day."Rudy," he said, turning to Giuliani, "Sidney was just in the Oval telling the president you don't know what the fuck you're doing. Right, Sidney?" He turned to Powell: "Why don't you tell Rudy to his face?"
"Eric, really it's not appropriate," Trump replied curtly.
"What's not appropriate?" Herschmann shot back. Turning to Powell, he said, "Why don't you repeat to Rudy what you just told the president in the Oval Office — that he has no idea about the case and that he only just began to understand it a few hours ago."
Three days later, Giuliani would publicly distance himself from Powell, telling Newsmax that Powell did not represent the president, and that "whatever she's talking about, it's her own opinions."
...
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday February 05 2021, @03:57PM (1 child)
Gotta get this on Broadway when the virus clears up, or daytime TV will work
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 05 2021, @04:38PM
is well suited to daytime movie script. they would expand it to pressing the button on NK or Iran though.
that or the reboot for west wing (lawyers go postal)
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday February 05 2021, @04:04PM (18 children)
Sidney Powell is either malicious as hell, or a special kind of batshit crazy. I'm not sure which would be worse.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 05 2021, @05:09PM (2 children)
Look up Jelly Babies, kids eat them and then are trained to be cannibals. Could be what happened to her.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @07:32AM (1 child)
I'll bet Jelly Babies caused the Bowling Green Massacre.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @06:16PM
Jelly baby carnage in America! Not to mention the Cadbury creme eggs, which according to John Oliver, [youtube.com] are filled with mermaid placenta!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 05 2021, @07:07PM (12 children)
We're supposed to rely on a novella from anonymous sources to decide?
I know she's a lawyer, and apparently a good one since she got the government to drop charges against Flynn. Lawyers' jobs are to get the best legal outcome for their clients.
I know when powerful people are in a room together with a decider, things can get heated.
Can find out pretty quickly the authors' tribe: "the same baseless claim", "On some level, this argument was music to Trump's ears. He was desperate." - pure fairy-tale pablum designed to be music to Democrats' ears.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Friday February 05 2021, @08:15PM (11 children)
But then he messed it all up by admitting guilt in accepting a precedential pardon. Bad lawyer! Bad!
Flynn has lost it, totally. There was a time when families would protect their elders by keeping them out of the public eye when they became insane. Problem with Flynn is that his son went crazy first, and only encouraged his dad's dementia. And Trump's children seem to have no idea that their father has completely lost his mind, perhaps because he never really had it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday February 05 2021, @11:23PM (10 children)
Unless the pardon is based on innocence. After all, a scenario that's not rare is that the person was wrongly convicted and gets pardoned. Accepting such a pardon in that case would not be an admission of guilt.
Here, you are technically right because the pardon [cnn.com] is not based on Flynn's innocence.
A broad pardon follows.
My take is that when you have FBI shenanigans this bad [soylentnews.org], plea bargains and pardons are no longer admissions of guilt.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 06 2021, @08:53AM (9 children)
Getting a pardon? Get the broadest pardon possible.
Doh.
That said, the transcripts I've seen certainly don't portray him as the sharpest pencil in the pack.
NEVER SPEAK WITH COPS!
https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @01:20PM
He thought he was safe because he was inside the machine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @06:12PM (7 children)
RICO: a pardon for future crimes is not only an admission of criminal activity, it is a incentive for such criminal activity. This is unconstitutional. To receive a pardon, the crime must have been charged, and the criminal convicted. This means there can be no "broad" pardons, except as a pattern of a criminal conspiracy, such as Watergate or the entire Trump administration. Republicans have become the (or a) mob.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 06 2021, @06:31PM (5 children)
Huh?
Well, yes, I suspect that would be, but where do you see any pardon for future crimes?
It's a broad pardon but I see nothing about future crimes.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @07:28PM (4 children)
For people not wanting to reward CNN with a click, here's the rest of the text:
(Score: 2) by Arik on Saturday February 06 2021, @08:44PM (3 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @09:52PM (2 children)
I am not the person that mentioned future crimes. I just quoted the pardon in full.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 07 2021, @04:14PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 07 2021, @04:43PM
I was interested in what the pardon said, and wanted to save others a click to CNN.
If you want an answer, go seek the Oracle at Delphi.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 07 2021, @04:13PM
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 06 2021, @01:39AM
Why not both? I think she's evil *and* insane. It's not as if it's an either-or question...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @05:52AM
Probably just a stratagem to push a narrative - keep the other side incredulous and looking down on you due to perceived insanity, motivate your base at the same time.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 06 2021, @05:44AM (15 children)
Accusations were made about Dominion, that could easily have been verified or renounced by seizing a few voting machines. That should have happened within a day or so of the election. Without those machines, almost nothing can be established as truth or fiction.
If there was a case to be made, the Trump side screwed the pooch by not getting into those machines.
If Dominion were innocent of all charges, I would have expected Dominion to readily surrender any machines in question.
It's a huge clusterfuck, and no one is ever going to unravel the tangled mess at this late date.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @06:58AM (3 children)
he lost! get over it!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 07 2021, @02:32AM (2 children)
The reason we won't get over it until the evidence is examined, is because the rock bottom foundation of this country is free, fair, and accurate elections. Take that away and you set the stage for civil war. Those who believe Biden won with certainty, should be the ones most interested in an actual analysis. Or perhaps that is why the ones screaming the loudest about how it was the bestest election evar, are screaming so loudly. As the saying goes, "When the facts are on your side, pound on the facts; when the law is on your side, pound on the law; when neither is on your side, pound on the podium."
Personally, I don't know who won and I don't think anybody does. It was the most banana republic style election we've ever had, but that was by design because it means that some oligarch can simply decree who won, and the American Pravda-MSM will just print it as fact.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08 2021, @12:58AM (1 child)
It's amazing that you can say this without even the slightest self-awareness of irony.
I'm sure state elections officials know. We could ask them. Oh, wait...they already declared a winner.
Banana republic? Surely your rhetoric is overwrought! Donald Trump tried to turn us into a banana republic but, luckily, elections officials and the US Congress managed to (just barely) push back on that attempt. Smile! This time democracy won!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08 2021, @09:31AM
With reports of the participation rate only just above 50%, the republican party deserves a lot of the blame for not having a sufficient "get out to vote" effort that allowed the democrats to cheat in a few cities and claim the victory.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @01:26PM
The Trump campaign did what they could, but state courts locked them out. It was the Republican party as a whole that remained inactive, because they had conspired with the democrats to throw the election.
The democrat press seems to be ready to talk about what happened now that Xiden has been installed. I haven't finished reading the Time magazine article that came out yesterday.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 06 2021, @04:14PM (2 children)
Why? So that the "auditors" could plant whatever supports their agenda?
In Georgia, there was a full manual recount - the discrepancies where insignificant as percentage. Do you expect me to believe the human vote counters where running the same vote flipping algorithm as those machines, except in wetware instead of silicon, and getting pretty much the same results?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 06 2021, @06:10PM (1 child)
I expect you to believe that the accusations should have been taken seriously enough to investigate them.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 07 2021, @05:03AM
Take them serious enough based on what?
An independent verification based on another method and different means didn't show anything unusual, so what gives?
(Score: 1) by Arik on Saturday February 06 2021, @10:26PM (6 children)
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
Might want to save a copy before it goes in the memory hole.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 06 2021, @11:25PM (5 children)
Interesting. There are several takeaways in that one article. One of the most interesting, is that the Biden camp had a shitload of "demonstrations" planned, if the vote didn't go their way. That idea kinda reinforces another idea: that the "insurrection" at the Capitol was planned and coordinated by the Biden camp to discredit the Trump camp.
Many of us have observed that the Capitol police abandoned their posts, and in effect, escorted and welcomed demonstrators into the Capitol.
Good find, and yes, I have saved it. Thanks.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 07 2021, @01:33AM
That was the first fishy thing, then more recently I saw footage of:
- Cops with MAGA caps calmly talking to "insurrectionists"
- "Insurrectionists" complaining that the cops are too passive in protecting the building from other "insurrectionists"
- People walking through the gallery, taking pains to stay within the crowd control ropes.
Obviously there were two teams at the
ReichstagCapitol that day.(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 08 2021, @01:08AM (1 child)
Point of order but, according to the Time article, it wasn't the "Biden camp" that had a shitload of demonstrations planned. True, the ones who were planning these demonstrations preferred Biden over Trump but it wasn't organized or coordinated by the Biden/Harris campaign. Next time, read for comprehension. Or stop being such a partisan tool. Whichever works.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 08 2021, @04:49AM
Your point of order is noted, but I think it misses the mark. If I changed that to "part of the Biden camp", would it satisfy you? And, I'll add that the Never Trumpers within the Republican party were also "part of the Biden camp". There were many factions within the camp, but they were all part of the same camp, each working to defeat Trump.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Tuesday February 09 2021, @03:15AM (1 child)
"One of the most interesting, is that the Biden camp had a shitload of "demonstrations" planned, if the vote didn't go their way."
Of course. They'd already defined a Trump win as a 'coup' and the opposite of Democracy. If there were a coup, if the Republic were overthrown, we'd all turn out, wouldn't we?
I mean, I'm with them there. That part isn't wrong; you conservatives should learn from it.
But it's coups all the way down. Certainly all the way back to the 1980!
We believe in class solidarity, and you're our class. There's no reason we should be fighting; aside from the very rich people who want us to fight because they're scared shitless of us getting together and burning their mansions down.
I wouldn't burn their mansions down unless they gave me no choice. Then I'd run into their burning mansion and carry them out one by one. Probably collapse from the smoke at some point, fine. Moving on.
It's down. It's broken. You can't rebuild it by pretending it's fine, because it's broken. It will either be fixed, or your grandkids will speak Chinese.
In itself, no bad thing. But is that really what you're going for?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 09 2021, @10:42AM
I wouldn't start the fire either. But, damned if I'm going to risk my life saving any rich asses. Remember, the mob is still out there, watching their handiwork. I'm not giving them reason to turn on me!
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.