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The Mac price crash of 2021 | ZDNet:
The impressive performance and battery life gains of the new M1 MacBooks have created a historic discontinuity in the normally placid resale market. Should you spend $800 for a one year old MacBook Air when for $200 more you could get a MacBook Air with several times the performance and 50 percent better battery life?
That's a question savvy buyers are asking themselves. Not surprisingly, the most common answer seems to be "Nope!"
[...] If you have an Intel MacBook Air or MacBook Pro and are thinking of trading up, you're likely to get more for your current 'Book by moving sooner rather than later. The Apple Silicon story is only going to get better. And the resale value of older Macs only worse.
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Not recommended for children.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 01 2021, @01:31PM (3 children)
n/t
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 01 2021, @01:40PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 01 2021, @03:06PM
I'm conflicted mostly because I hate window decorations on small laptop screens. Is there a Darwin build for M1 Macs?
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Monday March 01 2021, @02:02PM
But does it run Windows, at least in some kind of VM? As much as that sucked, having that fallback avaialble was very important for some people.
(Score: 3, Informative) by FatPhil on Monday March 01 2021, @02:22PM (4 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday March 01 2021, @02:33PM (3 children)
There's also a thing called "making markets" where major sales outlets artificially prop up resale prices, even at the expense of holding inventory (sometimes for years), just to maintain a perception of value even when none exists.
Which way will Apple go? Hard to say, but if ever there were a resale outlet that might sit on a pile of refurb product just to maintain some illusion of resale value for their new product purchase market, Apple would be one to do that.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 3, Interesting) by helel on Monday March 01 2021, @02:50PM
Apple doesn't have anything to do with the second hand market. They're offering the same trade in prices they always have because any machine they buy back goes straight to the recyclers, and the value of that proposition hasn't changed.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday March 02 2021, @02:54PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday March 02 2021, @04:00PM
to make any economic sense at all Apple needs to sell their new products at high premiums, dribs and drabs in the refurb market can be written off as total loss in favor of bolstering margin on their new product sales.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 01 2021, @02:49PM
... suddenly obsolete crapple!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by ilsa on Monday March 01 2021, @03:14PM (9 children)
I never understood why Apple products managed such price longevity. It makes absolutely no sense. Especially newer models that are completely unupgradable and don't have any kind of warranty, so if you run into a problem you're out almost as much as a brand new unit with nothing to show for it.
It's completely bonkers.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday March 01 2021, @03:27PM
See? D'you know any other computer like so? This has to have some value, eh? (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Tork on Monday March 01 2021, @04:23PM (4 children)
I can tell you from my own perspective: Right now I'm using a 2016 MacBook Pro and it still behaves just as well as the day I got it. Before that was a Macbook Pro 2012, best Windows machine I ever had. (I suspect the registry was a good deal less of a problem for Windows once SSDs became the norm...) Before that was a Toshiba, and less than two years before that was a Dell, and eighteen months before that was another Dell, and all of those had broken hinges and things like volume knobs not working. Oh and that 2012 laptop I mentioned... it's still in use today, albeit on light duty.
I had OS-related reasons for switching (hence the hybrid use of Windows on the 2012 machine) but it turns out my investment has been well worth it. While be up front and tell you that the 16-gig limit with this machine was somewhat painful, otherwise the specs exceed what I need it for. It used to be that you needed a machine to be at a certain level to achieve certain tasks, but these days it's just a matter of waiting a lil longer. We've had a glut of CPU cycles for over a decade now. The Dells and the Toshiba I mentioned: They started falling apart about a year and a half into their lives. Keys started falling off, the knob on the volume control to the Toshiba developed a flaw where it'd either go full volume or no volume, and on the Dells some of the plastic they used started to degrade into some nasty sticky mess. The Macs I upgraded because new-hotness, the rest of the laptops I replaced because their decomposition lead to them not being mobile machines anymore.
I'd like to mention that the whole reason I have a laptop as my main machine is I travel...so mobility is an issue and so is thickness. I know it's fun to tease about all that but some of us sometimes have to work in a dingy corner on a folding table without power nearby. I know others that are forced to do lotsa work while sitting in the shitty area of an airplane. You can't 'upgrade' a laptop to get thinner. It still blows my mind how many people make fun of mobile products being made smaller and lighter, to me that's like making fun of Linux for having a rich command-line interface in an era where 4k+ displays are the norm. Ignorant.
I'm averaging 4+ years of life for every Macbook Pro I purchase, not an experience I've had with other manufacturers, yeah I'm a satisfied customer. They do build them well and the things many of you think are big super-problems really aren't. Am I paying a premium? Yeah actually I'm mad at Apple because their prices surged upward with their touchbar machines. However, the machines are lasting a long time so I'm still ahead from where I was. More expensive but longer cycle.
I seriously doubt you'd be happier if you moved to Mac laptops, even if your OS if choice was beautifully supported on it, I would NOT recommend it unless you said something to me like: "I spend ten hours a week doing office work on a plane" and even then that's just getting the convo started. It's a saturated market and there's a bazillion tasks you can do on a computer with different benchmarky requirements, so pick your poison. But is it really that shocking that Apple has a strong hold on a niche market when the things they do a bunch of people bitch about (i.e. being made thinner...) actually keep their product on track for what it was designed for?
Oh and there's some nice things about the OS, too. I kinda skimmed over that because it's not like there's anything you can do on OSX that you can't do on your favorite OS, but it is nice how out-of-the-box it's ready to help you... I can tell because when Windows 10 came out it sure started looking a good deal like OSX. Heh. Here's a couple of examples: If I bring my laptop out of screensaver mode it'll unlock if I'm wearing my Apple Watch. If I'm in Safari and I need to do 2FA, when the confirmation code arrives on my iPhone my laptop can see that and shows that code a suggestion I can tap into my browser. Not a huge deal, or even exclusive to Apple, but it is a little bit of my time I get back. People do notice lil niceties like that.
I can tell you first-hand that Apple products are not treated with objectivity around here or the green-site. So don't take the rampant silliness about it around here without a grain of salt. That said I seriously doubt there's an Apple computer for you. Apple's very arrogant... which works when your vision lines up with theirs (for me, for now, it does.) and when it doesn't you're out in the cold. That's not the same as Apple being arrogant and nobody benefiting from it.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ilsa on Monday March 01 2021, @10:10PM
I completely agree and I also use a Mac. It's nice not having to worry about the OS screwing you over from one day to the next like you do with Windows, or having to unexpectedly dig around config files in Linux.
And yes, the longevity of these machines has historically been unbelievably good. But that still doesn't IMO justify the level of price retention that used machines have. This is especially true of models from the last decade-ish that are completely un-upgradable appliances.
I wanted to buy my parents older model mac minis that were still within Big Sur upgrade range, but holy cow I may as well just buy a new one.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday March 02 2021, @12:20AM (2 children)
For me it's Thinkpads. I love the look for similar reasons people love the Mac aesthetic, they're hardy and have the best keyboards ever, and mine last ages. My old T400 went 5+ years. Thinkpads tend to be some of the best Linux machines around too. Currently typing this on an E495 I got in November 2019 for under half list price from some spoiled college boy whose mama got him a Mac =P
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Informative) by lte on Tuesday March 02 2021, @08:59AM
It's a shame that modern Thinkpads are just as bad as Apple laptops in terms of upgradeability, and also the build quality is not what it once was. Probably why so many people cling onto Sandy/Ivy Bridge T/X/W series, as despite them being ~10 years old now they're the last of the proper Thinkpads with magnesium skeletons and ease of maintenance. I've got use of a T14s (AMD 4750u) and if not for the keyboard or trackpoint I could be using any other modern laptop. It has no ethernet without a dongle, no SD card reader (well technically there is a micro SD reader which is accessed with a sim ejector tool wtf Lenovo), soldered RAM, and worst still Lenovo have not fixed the coil whine via 3.5mm out which I've experienced as far back as the X200 (thankfully the Apple USB-C to 3.5mm jack adaptor is supported under Linux and has clean output). If it was my money, I'd just get something used instead for 10% of the price of a new one.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Tuesday March 02 2021, @11:06PM
Not everything works as well as it could, as I use a cranky distro (devuan with dwm as the window manager), but that's my fault and the things that don't work I don't care about, I'm sure a sane distro would be just fine.
So I'm thinkpad all the way.
(Hmmm, I did have a samsung while I was as samsung, but that was such a brief gig I can't remember anything about it. Except the job was shit.)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by gtomorrow on Monday March 01 2021, @08:10PM (1 child)
Replying from my mid-2010 iMac, macOS10.13.6.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 01 2021, @09:44PM
Replying from a 2009 Mac Pro.
Which is about to get Linux installed because High Sierra is the last supported OS on it, and there are no more updates for HS.
(Yes, HS shouldn't work on the 2009 Mac Pro - there is a workaround to get it looking like a 2010 Mac Pro, which HS liked).
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday March 01 2021, @08:27PM
Yes, it is, until you compare it to phenomena like Gucci handbags, Rolex watches, BMW automobiles, etc. Instantly recognizable brands which are associated with "high end" consumers. Now, pretend it's the 1980s and price your Ralph Lauren polo shirt under your Members Only jacket, over your Jordache blue jeans and Nike shoes, inflation adjust that price and tell me how it compares to the insane residual value in an Apple widget?
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 01 2021, @04:42PM
"All your butts and wallets are belong to us."
(Score: 2) by looorg on Monday March 01 2021, @05:10PM
The funny things about Apple prices is that they are king of U-shaped. The new machines are very expensive for the hardware -- having that sleek look and apple logo costs of a lot of extra. Then there is the somewhat recent machines on the second hand market that will then apparently crash now. Then you have like the classics (or well just the old since they used 'Classic' in the name of some old machines) that are creeping upwards in price, for nostalgia etc since none of those machines are bought to be used or used much or have hardware specs that are in any way shape or form relevant. That said they also suffer more from the supply-and-demand issues since there is no production anymore and with each passing year the amount of machines dwindle driving the price up. That said if all you want to do is write some documents and check your email with a few modern upgrades (mostly IO solutions) they will do the trick for you.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 01 2021, @07:11PM (2 children)
This same thing happened when Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel chips. The good news is that these Intel machines will still run Windows just fine. The issue that the owners of these older machines will run into running OS X is that the application developers will stop building an Intel version and then you end up SOL.
I had a PowerPC based macbook pro that was 4 years old and still working fine, but none of the applications that I used would update any more.
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Monday March 01 2021, @08:32PM
More likely the OS will enforce updates that can't be accomplished on the old hardware. Back in the PPC->Intel migration Apple couldn't be that arrogant, today....
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end
(Score: 4, Insightful) by progo on Monday March 01 2021, @09:03PM
This time around they're practically unrepairable when they fail, and that makes the used price even worse. You can't just walk into an unauthorized repair ship and get a fix with an aftermarket small component; likely you'll need a whole new board no matter what's broken.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Mykl on Monday March 01 2021, @10:52PM (2 children)
I have a Mac at home that is booted into OSX 95% of the time, but once a week I get together with some friends for some online PC gaming on a couple of games that are Windows-only. Bootcamp allows me to run 'native' Windows on the machine, which means that the games can perform acceptably. Emulation will not cut it in that use case.
I suspect there are quite a few people out there that need to occasionally boot into Windows, and who don't want to go the emulation route. The second-hand market will be the only option for them for a while, until it all becomes too hard.
I'm intrigued about the speed and battery bumps in the new Macs, but will be holding onto my Intel chip for a while.
(Score: 1) by zion-fueled on Tuesday March 02 2021, @07:10PM
I'm guessing way more of a battery bump than a speed upgrade. The intel chips will fall because the primary market of apple aren't techies. Apple's gonna do what it normally does. Increment the OSx version and require newer machines. Then all your software updates and you are SOL. Probably with way fewer people saving old versions than on windows.
Would be even funnier if they get OSx working on pinebook pros.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday March 03 2021, @02:59AM
2006 I was asked to evaluate Apple as a hardware choice for a new company, and with the dual boot option it was a no-brainer - the price difference was minimal in the bigger scheme of things (for that situation) and going with Apple hardware gave maximal flexibility.
Then I was asked to evaluate Cocoa/Carbon as a development platform vs alternatives, and Cocoa/Carbon lost to Qt - big time - for similar reasons. It ran on OS-X native, and ported to Windows with minimal effort. As the months rolled by, we came to learn that basically every other big player in our space was also using Qt for their software development. At the time, Qt was about 6-8 months behind the latest greatest "brushed metal look" OS-X implementations, but long before we had to show anything to an actual customer Qt "caught up" and all our existing code ran with the new look - zero effort required, much less effort than trying to train Cocoa programmers in-house since there were basically none available on the market.
Україна досі не є частиною Росії Слава Україні🌻 https://news.stanford.edu/2023/02/17/will-russia-ukraine-war-end