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Biden signs $1.9 trillion stimulus bill, making $1,400 checks and child tax credit official:
President Joe Biden on Thursday signed the $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief package, which includes a third stimulus check, for up to $1,400, and an expanded child tax credit. The IRS and Treasury will begin to send the new stimulus checks as soon as this weekend, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said Thursday at a press briefing.
The bill signing comes just one day after the amended bill passed in the House by a vote of 220-211. The House initially passed the bill on Feb. 26, and the Senate approved it last week, albeit with some changes.
[...] Democrats had been pushing to get the stimulus package signed into law before current unemployment benefits expire March 14. Biden was originally scheduled to sign the bill on Friday, but it got moved forward after Congress sent the final bill to the president more quickly than anticipated, Psaki said on Thursday.
The stimulus package, called the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, includes changes made by the Senate last week, such as reducing income limits for the third stimulus payment and lowering proposed weekly unemployment benefits from $400 a week to $300 a week (though they'd extend through Sept. 6 rather than the end of August). The Senate also dropped a federal minimum wage increase from the legislation, but proponents say they'll reintroduce that at a later date.
How to watch President Biden's national address tonight.
House passes $1.9 trillion Covid relief bill, sends it to Biden to sign:
[...] Here are the proposal's major pieces:
- It extends a $300 per week jobless aid supplement and programs making millions more people eligible for unemployment insurance until Sept. 6. The plan also makes an individual's first $10,200 in jobless benefits tax-free.
- The bill sends $1,400 direct payments to most Americans and their dependents. The checks start to phase out at $75,000 in income for individuals and are capped at people who make $80,000. The thresholds for joint filers are double those limits. The government will base eligibility on Americans' most recent filed tax return.
- It expands the child tax credit for one year. It will increase to $3,600 for children under 6 and to $3,000 for kids between 6 and 17.
- The plan puts about $20 billion into Covid-19 vaccine manufacturing and distribution, along with roughly $50 billion into testing and contact tracing.
- It adds $25 billion in rental and utility assistance and about $10 billion for mortgage aid.
- The plan offers $350 billion in relief to state, local and tribal governments.
- The proposal directs more than $120 billion to K-12 schools.
- It increases the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefit by 15% through September.
- The bill includes an expansion of subsidies and other provisions to help Americans afford health insurance.
- It offers nearly $30 billion in aid to restaurants.
- The legislation expands an employee retention tax credit designed to allow companies to keep workers on payroll.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @01:06AM (93 children)
Even if it really were free, with no inflation or taxes, half this stuff is just toxic:
You might wonder why the right would object to "humanities, arts, and museums" but they vividly remember that federal funds went to a work of "art" called Piss Christ that featured Jesus upside-down in a jar of the artist's own urine.
Paying off debt for San Francisco is particularly offensive, just like the city. The economics term for bad effects of bailouts and insurance is "moral hazard". We encourage foolish and evil behavior by saving people from the downsides. San Francisco also happens to be filthy rich. Why are we bailing out the rich? This is a place where a typical home is $2,000,000. Republicans tend to live in places where a typical home is $100,000. Democrats sure seem to love the 1%er people. Heck, we can recycle a democrat talking point for this: poor people who vote democrat are voting against their own best interest!
It seems like "no earmarks" somehow turned into "no earmarks except for leftist areas and causes".
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @01:35AM (30 children)
What's worse, if they just gave the $1.9tn directly to the people, distributed equally, that's roughly $5.7k per person in the country.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 12 2021, @03:03AM (29 children)
And Jeff Bezos would be getting a $5.7k check, is that supposed to be better?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Friday March 12 2021, @03:31AM (7 children)
And for that reason, nobody should get it? That's weird thinking...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 12 2021, @03:56AM (6 children)
Yes, that is definitely an accurate representation of my position!
Or, perhaps, I'm in favor of giving it to people who make less than $160k which is in the bill I just posted about.
It is true that it does exclude Jeff Bezos. And, thanks to Manchin, myself!
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday March 12 2021, @04:03AM (3 children)
Yeah, well, you are a democrat, counting out your pennies...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 12 2021, @04:27AM (2 children)
Well I watched the speech and kind of liked it. I feel like I might actually get the vaxx in a reasonable timeframe.
I'm OK with that getting stimulated as opposed to my bank account. The debt actually is important. I'm not too pissed off by Manchin trying to reduce the sticker price a bit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @01:19PM
Not when that money is going to help ordinary people, it's not. 'But the debt!' is a Republican talking point. Manchin would know.
So you're okay with fucking over people on unemployment to the tune of $100/week and stealing checks from millions of people who received the $600 checks, just to save what amounts to an absolutely minuscule amount of money? Just insane. Democratic party partisan hacks really are right-wing.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday March 12 2021, @06:47PM
I could believe you mean that if you made some noise about the Wall Street bailouts instead of standing up for Manchin. The "debt" is nothing but a bullshit pretext to justify austerity that the democrats do not oppose.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @07:09AM
Are you also in favor of lying? Because the Democrats promised $2,000 checks ($600 + $1,400) if they won, and now they've excluded millions of people who received the $600 checks from receiving the $1,400 checks. Those people were 100% lied to and betrayed. Are you in support of that, too? What's worse is that the people in that income range were the ones who helped Democrats win states like Georgia. Is screwing over your own voters the strategy for winning 2022?
We saved what amounts to fucking pennies on this and broke a major promise. And I don't believe for one fucking millisecond that Joe Manchin would have tanked the entire must-pass bill if they had kept the income thresholds and unemployment benefits the same; that was just an excuse to do what Joe Biden wanted to do already. Such a 'compromise' would not have been made under Bernie.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @11:41AM
Why spend a bunch of money on bureaucracy to determine who gets paid, when you can just send them to everybody?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @04:23AM (1 child)
Universal income is supposed to be universal, so yes Jeff Bezos gets a $5.7k check.
Aw, can't have that! You're back to peddling jealousy, envy, and other negative feelings. You're back to dividing us with class warfare. (yeah, "divisive", that's you)
Seriously, it would be better. It might not be good, considering questions of inflation and motivation. It would be better though. Giving a $5.7k check to everybody would at least avoid funding your toxic pet causes and bailing out your rich San Francisco friends.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @11:47AM
Direct universal payment would be the most democratic form of stimulus that exists, and most in line with the theory behind stimulus (give people money, and most will spend it immediately on obligations or recreation, thinking of it as "free money").
(Score: 3, Insightful) by julian on Friday March 12 2021, @05:03AM (7 children)
Have you forgotten taxes exist? We just claw it back from him, and then some, at the end of the year.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 12 2021, @05:22AM (6 children)
What can be passed via reconciliation can be un-passed via reconciliation.
The obvious rebuttal to any debt concerns would be to repeal that tax cut for rich people.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @05:59AM (5 children)
Because you're totally going to nail "rich people" for 1.9 trillion bucks. 1,900,000,000,000. Even if you go for the richest 10,000,000 taxpayers (cutting well deep into the middle class here) that's an average of 190,000 each.
That's exactly what we'd be clawing back, right?
You don't believe your own arithmetic, if you even checked it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @06:43AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nFI2Zb7qE [youtube.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 12 2021, @06:53PM (2 children)
We could bring in $7.5 trillion by simply enforcing the existing tax code on rich people. [nytimes.com] REfund the IRS!!
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday March 12 2021, @07:22PM
Agreed, these are the reasons we have a "debt", so why is anybody talking about raising taxes [reuters.com]?! Why aren't Biden and all the other democrats putting this on the front page? The net just a little too big? Might catch Pelosi and Feinstein, et al perhaps?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @10:53PM
7.5 trillion - over ten years.
And even that is a guesstimate, assuming that the people they want to go after have incompetent accountants and lawyers.
Maybe.
If they first dump fat pots of money at the IRS.
It would make way more sense to simplify the tax structure to remove loopholes and so on ... but that's also a mess because who depends vastly on those loopholes? The middle class.
It would make way more sense to ditch personal income tax entirely, structure it as a (much lower, yet net similar) payrol tax on businesses, vastly reduce the expense burden of the IRS, and stop hassling individuals.
But no ... that's not the narrative that the writer wants to produce. Rich people are eeeevil tax cheats. You know it, I know it, it feels right.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Saturday March 13 2021, @11:47AM
Think again. They've reportedly added $1.1 trillion to their money bins during the past year alone https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/american-billionaires-added-1-1-trillion-in-wealth-during-the-pandemic/ar-BB1d6AgG?viewall=true+ [msn.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Friday March 12 2021, @06:21AM (4 children)
Better than giving ~75% of that money to pork?
Are you crazy?
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 12 2021, @06:55PM (3 children)
Pork like paying for and distributing vaccines...
The best way to stimulate the economy is to give me the vaxx so I can go to a fucking bar again.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday March 12 2021, @07:31PM
Even that is a relatively small part of the bill. Most has been inadequately itemized to know where it's going, very convenient.
But I guess we're supposed to be grateful when a billionaire tosses out a nickel for 20 people to fight over.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 12 2021, @11:46PM
Actually no. That's part of the ~25% that has been accounted for.
Indeed. But what does oh, 99+% of this bill have to do with that?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday March 13 2021, @12:23AM
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @07:03AM (4 children)
Who gives a fuck? There aren't that many millionaires and billionaires, so it would amount to nothing. Means-testing is extremely inefficient and delays getting checks to the people who do need it. A UBI is 100% better.
I can't believe we as a country are so stupid that we're willing to screw everyone over just so a few people who don't 'need' the money won't get it, even though it's an astronomically small sum to them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @06:26PM
I was going to sat Republicans, but they are happy to give money to the people that don't need it and worse than Scrooge when poor peoole need help.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 12 2021, @06:58PM (2 children)
I agree with you in general but this is a bill targeted specifically at COVID. So the question is what is the best way to mitigate the pandemic?
In my opinion, giving me and Jeff Bezos a check when we're making money off all this chaos is less productive than spending our checks on vaccines and distribution.
I'll stimulate the hell out of the economy myself if I can get vaxxed and go to restaurants again!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 13 2021, @12:26AM (1 child)
I see that the covid vaccine is priced for under $40 [healthline.com] per dose. So the federal government could pay for full vaccination of everyone in the US for under $13 billion. Where's the need for the rest of the $1.9 trillion in spending?
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday March 15 2021, @03:45PM
Bread and Circuses
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @02:59PM
That $5.7k would be the least of our worries compared with the taxes he's allowed to avoid. And giving it to everybody makes it a lot harder to argue against.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Friday March 12 2021, @01:43AM (3 children)
Stimulus checks for prisoners? Does that mean the checks aren't based on who filed a tax return this time? or are prisoners filing tax returns?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by krishnoid on Friday March 12 2021, @03:09AM
And you gotta wonder how much is going to the payment processors [time.com].
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Friday March 12 2021, @03:22AM
It's the exact same process for prisoners as the previous stimulus passed under Trump. Suddenly it's a problem....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @05:10PM
Unless they put special protection in place, that money would likely get taken as restitution to the victims. The only place where it's really fucked up is for some victimless crimes like drugs where the money goes back to the government for prevention programs.
In other words, there's no reason not to give the money to prisoners, they aren't going to get to keep it anyways.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by julian on Friday March 12 2021, @02:00AM (54 children)
Wow! You're pulling out some deep fascist cuts. I wasn't expecting a "degenerate art" [wikipedia.org] trope. The very fact that you're still talking about it 37 years on proves it was probably worth the incredibly small amount of money the government paid to indirectly sponsor the artist through The National Endowment for the Arts. Cheers, Andres.
All of the things you listed are actually good, btw. You are just giving truth to the adage that all conservatism is nowadays is just saying good public policy in a sarcastic mocking voice. Oh, what's next? We give eeeevveeryone healthcare?! Yes, we want to do all those things. They're good. Listing them like they're bad just makes you look out of touch.
More succinctly: OK, boomer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @02:23AM (50 children)
Why would you want to subsidize illegal immigrants?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by julian on Friday March 12 2021, @02:38AM (49 children)
Everyone here deserves healthcare. I don't care what their status is. That's the standard in the rest of the civilized world that I would like us to be a part of. The psychic pain it causes conservatives when they know their tax dollars are being pooled to support all of us, including people who are undocumented, is a value-add for me. And even beyond the petty pleasure I take in that, from an epidemiological perspective, disease doesn't care about human contrivances like nationality and borders. It's the right thing to do morally, and scientifically.
But it's a distraction issue anyway. Immigration is a totally different topic and I have a whole lot of reforms on that I would like to see including holding businesses responsible for exploiting undocumented workers.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @02:46AM (14 children)
So it's not just that you support it but "The psychic pain it causes conservatives [...] is a value-add for me" because "It's the right thing to do morally"?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 12 2021, @03:09AM (1 child)
I'd argue that if someone is doing wrong, the fact that being made to do right causes them psychic pain *is* a good thing. You law-and-order types are supposed to be all about that aren't you? Aren't you?
Besides which, while some of my ideas on immigration sound decidedly un-liberal, Julian is correct that disease doesn't give a shit about national borders. Regardless of how someone got here, if they *are* here, there is no realistic way of making sure they don't spread disease to others. It would cost less, in the medium and long term, to care for people as and when they need it.
It's not hard to figure this out. What you're really saying here is that you would rather subsidize the suffering, the...ahem, "psychic pain" as well as physical pain and disease, of those you don't like, no matter the actual cost in money, or even the cost in lives and quality of life of those people you supposedly do like. Again, disease doesn't give a shit about ingroups and outgroups.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13 2021, @08:00PM
a bullet for bean niggers is still cheaper.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @03:38AM (11 children)
Your response is abnormal, in fact, it doesn't sound human.
Yes, pissing off bad, immoral people is the right thing to do. Especially when they are already bad tempered. They are the most entertaining. You don't like it? Oh well...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 12 2021, @06:02AM (10 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @07:25AM
Khallow, khallow is the bad person here. Bad, bad khallow! Nasty, selfish, Republican richie wannabe khallow! Very, very bad person, khallow!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @07:06PM (8 children)
The people who enjoy watching people suffer instead of giving them help. There are a lot of you here. Just typical middle class white folks.
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Saturday March 13 2021, @12:36AM (7 children)
Like when julian wrote:
Only documented example of someone who enjoys watching people suffer. What gets missed in your naive pretension, is that suffering also comes from those higher taxes. Medical care isn't free. Someone pays for it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13 2021, @02:43AM (6 children)
Yes, he is right about those people. People who would make other people suffer by denying them their needs and social safety nets deserve to suffer even more. Rich people can afford to pay the taxes. They still have plenty left over. So fuck them if they don't like it. The is no reason to ever sympathize with a rich person about their taxes. They're just a bunch of crybabies
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 13 2021, @05:16AM (5 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14 2021, @01:43AM (4 children)
The rich aren't suffering, they're only complaining. Mere equality is so oppressive!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday March 14 2021, @05:22AM (3 children)
The rich aren't the worst affected by taxes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14 2021, @05:54PM (2 children)
Yeah, not after Reagan, Bush, and Trump. They moved the burden down to the middle class and poor. We have to bring back the old rates and make the system actually progressive where the highest brackets pay the most tax.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday March 15 2021, @03:08AM (1 child)
The rich never paid those old tax rates.
This is all profoundly dumb. Government can't cover this stuff, even if we seize outright all the rich people wealth.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 15 2021, @10:52PM
The rich never paid those old tax rates.
Well, it's time they do! We have to kill all their fancy deductions
(Score: 2, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @03:12AM (27 children)
Please don't tell me that we have an Azuma Hazuki sockpuppet here.
Come on, why do you have to make us all look bad? You were on to a good thing with "Everyone here deserves healthcare." - arguable, depending on where you start, but at least a benevolent position based, presumably, in compassion.
And then "...psychic pain it causes conservatives..."
Why did you go there? What on earth good does swinging a hatred-filled censer do for your argument? Do you think that's what's going to win people over?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 12 2021, @03:18AM (26 children)
I don't sockpuppet, you fragile little snowflake. I don't need to. My opinions stand on their own merits.
And quit the fucking tone-trolling already. By this point, anyone who doesn't see the sense in points like Julian's or mine isn't "undecided," they're already past the point of no return and no amount of reason or "civil discourse" is going to change their minds. Perversely, reason or civility from someone holding an opposing position is going to make them oppose it even harder, because this type sees attempts to take the high road as a sign of weakness.
This schtick of yours is getting incredibly tiresome. There is no "winning over" people who have stared evil in the face and decided they want more of it.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @03:25AM (23 children)
OK, so just for the sake of curiosity, how might someone who is worried about driving away allies suggest that folks, y'know, try not to be obnoxious without it being tone-trolling?
Because if any suggestion that anybody anywhere might want to kick it back a notch when they sound as if they're grinding their teeth while typing holes in their keyboard is automatically tone-trolling, we're going to need a different word. Tone-sincering?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 12 2021, @03:28AM (18 children)
Here's a suggestion: stop pretending to be anything but a trolling shit-stirrer, as you're not fooling anyone. We've had this discussion before already: the irredeemable have disappeared beyond their own mental event horizons and nothing is going to pull them out save the accelerated Hawking-radiative process of hideous personal suffering in topical ways. These people do not and will not believe X is a problem until X happens to them. Until then, they're beyond reach, trapped inside their own selfish psychic Schwarzchild radii.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @03:48AM (17 children)
You're ignoring the persuadable middle.
Are you just deciding to cede them to the likes of Mitch, because you can't be bothered to look approachable? Do you think that the antics of the street vandals over the last year won the election? Seriously, do you think Biden would have done better if he'd been caught on camera throwing bottles at a line of cops?
If anything's tiresome here, it's the obstinate refusal to do the hard work of actually reaching out, rather than sitting in a puddle of your own loathing.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 12 2021, @04:34AM (16 children)
Again, there is no "persuadable middle" of any consequence left any longer. At this point, if someone has seen all these horrors and is somehow still undecided, it's because they're either completely morally vacuous, or else not actually in "the middle" at all and just keeping quiet about it.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @06:09AM (2 children)
OK.
I give up.
Rave on.
I can't stop you, and you're buried much too far in your own little mental bunker to look around, and see what you're doing.
When you don't get, politically, what you want, look in the mirror, point at it, and say: "You're why we can't have nice things."
That's right; it's your reflection's fault, not yours.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @07:41AM
Tone troll tone troll bullshit centrism and "leave em to mitch" threats
You are an idiot
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday March 12 2021, @08:09AM
Valiant attempt. Wise decision in the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Friday March 12 2021, @01:28PM (10 children)
What horrors? You trying to say something? I just see $1.5 trillion here of our future getting flushed because reasons. I think we're investing heavily in some future horrors, but then again, you aren't planning to flee for Canada for nothing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @08:48PM (9 children)
Another libertarian who does not understand money. Gets old, after a while, always have to explain that it is not something real, that is subject to physical scarcity. khallow must be one of those who's obvious rebuttal to the proposal to have Obama just order the US Mint to mint a trillion dollar coin of platinum, and deposit in the Fed, was that there is not enough platinum to make a trillion dollar coin, and it would be huge, and too big to fit in the Fed! As if a dollar bill contains a dollar's worth of paper and ink. Idiots incapable of abstract thinking.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @11:01PM
Going out on a limb here to guess, but maybe you can let me know whether the robes of the MMT cult are really as free below the belt as the whisper goes.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 12 2021, @11:43PM (4 children)
The fact that our currency is both fiat and floating ought to scare you shitless. I know it does to me. It means that the money isn't worth a damn thing except what we can convince people it's worth, and any sufficiently serious crisis of faith in government or other sociopolitical disruption will crash the economy as well.
Now a metal standard is stupid, but why not something like an energy standard? As a bonus, that would get us onto renewables right quick, as they would almost literally print money...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 13 2021, @01:00AM (2 children)
Hyperinflation is not hypothetical. We already have numerous examples of hyperinflation throughout history. Crashing the economy does have harmful consequences, but economies can and do recover. When money disappears, assets and people remain.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 15 2021, @01:22AM (1 child)
Hyperinflation in the world reserve currency is extremely unlikely for many reasons. It's a complete non-issue. There is very little appreciable inflation.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday March 15 2021, @04:00AM
The key one is that the world reserve currency won't stay the world reserve currency, if/when it happens. Should the US dollar become an economic hot potato due to hyperinflation, something else will have become the world reserve currency.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday March 13 2021, @08:43PM
Seems like we already have that [wikipedia.org]. Works best under conditions of scarcity, managed through warfare.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Interesting) by khallow on Saturday March 13 2021, @12:13AM (2 children)
then we get to:
Sounds like you're the idiot here. I get inflation. I get trillion dollar coins [soylentnews.org]. The problem here is that you're trying to pay back debt with money of greatly diluted value. Borrowers aren't going to fall for that more than once - it's a one-time default.
Don't borrow money that you won't pay back in good faith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14 2021, @12:53PM (1 child)
Are you nuts? Borrowers love paying back debt like that. The whole economy for the last 75 years has been based on the idea that inflation makes the dollar you pay back with less than the dollar you borrowed, so less painful to the wallet or purse.
Deflation, on the other hand …
And lenders don’t really have a choice except to go along with it. Or be stuck repossessing assets that will quickly drop in value to less than the note is worth. We saw that with the financial crisis - homes with 6-figure mortgages being sold at auction for $500 in Chicago, for example. So their only option is to keep the merry-go-round of low interest rates going.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday March 15 2021, @04:04AM
Except the other choice, don't go with it. Duh. You can talk all about the lack of choice, but they'll find those alternate choices.
What assets would those be again? Anything physical isn't going to do that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @08:01PM (1 child)
Well, according to that other AC, fascist ideals were originally very liberal, but their methods left something to be desired. I think the same thing applies to you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 15 2021, @01:46AM
He lied about that. Fascism is the reification of the military industrial complex. https://thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Fascism_Mussolini.html [thirdworldtraveler.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by julian on Friday March 12 2021, @03:30AM (2 children)
Start by logging in to post.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @11:50AM (1 child)
Why? So that you can make assumptions one the motives behind the words instead of judging the words on their own merit?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 12 2021, @01:28PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @06:15AM
They are just mad because someone called them out on their shit. They say racist, bigoted misogynistic shit all the time while pointing the fingers at others for doing it. They can sit and pretend it is not true because 'they are right' and everyone else is a racists. But we thank her for her racist views to remind everyone what they really are.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday March 12 2021, @08:05AM
Listen, Zumi, letting aside the motives, the A/C you are answering to has a point.
I may have strong feelings (one way or the other) on some of the soylenters here; believe me (or not), berating them is a negative overall.
After a while, the feeling towards such berating posts doesn't get much different to the one arising from fusty-es constant "both parties are the same, wake up people and fuck them".
The magister tried the "naming and shaming the alt-right" for a long while now. What do you think he achieved?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @11:57AM
If you can't present your ideas without directly, intentionally insulting people and stereotyping broad swathes of the population, either you or your ideas have a problem. Where is the tone trolling in pointing that out? Basic principles of rhetoric and logic lead me to conclude that the real troll was the one who gloated about enjoying causing psychological agony to others.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @04:30AM
Mexico has universal healthcare. (superior, isn't it?) Here's the deal. When we find an illegal alien who might need healthcare, we deport the fucker.
Hmmm, we also provide socialized medicine in prison. That's another idea.
The VA provides it too. How's this: we ship illegals off to fight a ground war in Syria as infantry, then maybe Iran or Sudan, and after retirement they can get VA healthcare.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @02:35PM (1 child)
How is it the people most frequent to cite "the rest of the world" invariably have little to no clue about "the rest of the world"? Do a quick search for Denmark zero asylum [duckduckgo.com] and educate yourself. The American policy on immigration is *insane* and nothing at all like the rest of the world. The rest of the world treats illegal immigrants as illegal immigrants. This absurd concoction you create in your head where an illegal in "the rest of the world" can just walk into a hospital, make it clear he's legal, and do as he fancies is simply completely out of touch with reality. If there was an urgent condition, they would be treated (same as in America) and then generally scheduled for rapid deportation or expulsion.
Denmark in particular has a unique solution. They're planning [nytimes.com] to start sending unwanted illegal immigrants to a small island miles off the coast once used for the quarantine of contagious animals. As the country's immigration minister stated, "[The illegal immigrants] are unwanted, and they will feel that."
The US has gone just batshit insane, and the stuff we're doing is nothing like this "rest of the world." I strongly recommend you, after this dumb virus is passed, actually take the opportunity to see "the rest of the world" and you may suddenly realize neither it nor America are anything like what you are constructing in your mind.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by EEMac on Friday March 12 2021, @04:48PM
You're observing the collapse of a civilization. There's multiple possible outcomes. Try to guess what the result will be! Grab some popcorn and watch the show.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday March 12 2021, @04:06PM
It's not even just a question of what they "deserve": Sick people make other people sick. Which makes it in everybody's best interest to make sure fewer sick people are walking around or doing their jobs and infecting people. Which means giving out health care and paid sick leave to people who may not "deserve" it (whatever that means), which actually saves money in a matter of weeks.
But that simple reality is up against the significant portion of the US government and population that would gladly institute a genocide of anyone they consider "undesirable" if they thought they could get away with it, especially if they didn't have to do the dirty work themselves.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13 2021, @08:08PM
"Everyone here deserves healthcare."
Health care paid for by extortion? Why do they deserve it? Their ancestors did not create that security for them. They deserve to die off, is what they deserve.
"I don't care what their status is."
That's because you are a weaponized, subversive, useful idiot.
"That's the standard in the rest of the civilized world that I would like us to be a part of."
No, that's the standard imposed on Jew slave states that the brainwashed slaves of those states stupidly accept.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14 2021, @02:18AM
Nobody deserves anything.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @04:46AM (2 children)
Disliking a work of "art" called Piss Christ is somehow bad because Hitler also disliked degenerate art? Oh boy....
Hitler enacted the first animal cruelty laws. I guess those need to go, hmmm? Burning puppies alive might help keep the fascism ghosts away.
Hitler designed a Volkswagen car. That makes Volkswagen evil. Nobody should drive one.
Hitler drank water. Needless to say, drinking water makes you a fascist.
You aren't even consistent. Piss Christ is religious bigotry. Clearly, you are fine with bigotry, as long as the target is a Christian. Why don't you just admit that you want a final solution to the problem of Christians?
(Score: 3, Informative) by julian on Friday March 12 2021, @04:55AM (1 child)
I think you are what is known as, "triggered"
Please read some Dr. Seuss, eat some soy, and try to calm down.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13 2021, @03:04PM
Nah, I think he's known as "logical". A rare and elusive condition now a days, treatable only with extensive reconditioning through critical theory therapy.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @02:06AM
What a pack of lies. What idiot modded this trash "Informative"?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @03:45AM
I rather enjoyed "Piss Christ", but then, I was raised Catholic. Seemed a fair turn of events, when previously it was the artist hanging upside down in a jar of Christ piss.
*Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers*
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 12 2021, @08:43PM
It's theft to aid sedition and they should all be killed. War is coming. Who can claim the most souls?