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Encrypted Messaging App Signal Goes Down in China:
Signal, the popular encrypted messaging app, stopped working in China on Tuesday, according to multiple reports. The app is still available in the Apple App Store in China, according to Reuters, but it's not clear how much longer that might last.
The Chinese government has not made any announcement about Signal being blocked or banned in China, but Signal's website was unavailable in the country starting on Monday. Google's Play Store is unavailable in China, but Android users could previously download the app directly from Signal's website.
Signal did not immediately respond to questions emailed early Tuesday.
Text message verification codes for Signal are not working in China at the moment, according to users who are discussing the outage on Twitter, which would make new sign-ups for the service impossible for anyone using a phone number in mainland China. Some users were still able to access Signal if they turned on a VPN.
Also at The Washington Post.
Signal Home page.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @01:51AM (9 children)
The left looks to China with envy.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @03:05AM (1 child)
And the right looks at them with greed.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @03:13AM
And the MS-Teams users wonder when Microsoft is going to fix their login server.
(Score: 5, Informative) by helel on Wednesday March 17 2021, @03:50AM (6 children)
You seem to be having a little difficulty telling your left from your right. It's ok, up to a third of adults share this problem. It would routinely be the right that wants to ban end-to-end encryption in the US and in general. [senate.gov]
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday March 17 2021, @09:33PM (5 children)
Or am I misremembering some details?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Informative) by helel on Wednesday March 17 2021, @10:19PM (4 children)
Yes, right leaning Bill Clinton did push to destroy encryption before it could even be widely adopted and right wing politicians continue to push that same agenda to this day. [forbes.com]
By contrast left wing politicians, such as Bernie Sanders, support our right to secure encryption without backdoors or key escrow that would make our communications inherently insecure.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday March 18 2021, @08:16AM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday March 18 2021, @08:35AM (2 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by helel on Thursday March 18 2021, @08:44AM (1 child)
Why is is conservatives always feel the need to move the goal posts? Is it because reality never quite seems to bend the knee to their lies?
The original assertion was the "the left" opposes secure encryption, not that "Democrats" nor "the moderate right" oppose it. That statement was demonstrably wrong.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday March 18 2021, @08:51AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1) by js290 on Wednesday March 17 2021, @03:42AM (18 children)
"The 21st century version [of #2A] would be a rule forbidding govt regulation of encryption. A govt that has no way of knowing what who is saying to whom lacks the most powerful weapons for winning an information war." [bit.ly]
Matt Stoller spittin' fire re:CCP fascism & Wall St... USA has stopped behaving as a liberal democracy [bit.ly]
(Score: 3, Disagree) by helel on Wednesday March 17 2021, @04:05AM (17 children)
The second amendment was about the right of states to field militaries separate from, and possibly against, a federal army. As such a modern second amendment might guarantee the states the right to employ encryption as they see fit, or run their own nuclear programs. However, as the US has moved from the use of militias to a standing army it's quite likely that a modern second amendment wouldn't include any protection of an individual's right to bear arms at all.
Rather it's the first amendment that safeguards individual speech and assembly and the fourth amendment that guarantees privacy from the government, all of which rely on encryption in the modern world. If a modern constitution were to include encryption in the bill of rights I wager it's one of these that it would wind up in.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 17 2021, @04:56AM (16 children)
You should read Thomas Jefferson's papers, among others. The state's right to field an army independently of the federal government was indeed one of the goals of the 2nd. But, the individual citizen's right to bear arms, whether for self defense, or even against the state, was just as important a goal.
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823
I challenge you to find any quote by any of the people involved that would suggest that only members of a state's militia might bear arms. Repeatedly, the sentiment is clearly stated that no man should be deprived of his arms.
Unfortunately, the black man was so deprived. Which lends credence to that old adage - the difference between a free man and a slave is the right to bear arms.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by helel on Wednesday March 17 2021, @07:18AM (7 children)
Yes, they favored personal gun ownership in the context of the time. The US used militias in which citizens brought their own personal firearms to serve their state or nation in military endeavors and so they not only allowed but in fact required gun ownership for this purpose. Those who did not serve in a given states militia were often banned from possessing firearms, including slaves, free African Americans, and indigenous Americans.
Further, for all male members of the populous that were allowed (or required) to own a gun were required to serve in their state militia when called upon to do so.
The second amendment, and all those quotes you have, were written in the context that gun ownership and militia service went hand in hand. The two were so strongly linked that during the revolution the founding fathers saw fit to disarm anyone in the colonies who refused to joint the revolution - not just those who supported England but everyone who merely refused to fight for the new government.
And it does seem your quotes are a bit... selective. Thomas Jefferson, for example, said "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms within his own lands or tenements." That's a very different stance than asserting that people should be free to carry guns generally.
This isn't to say that the founding fathers opposed individual gun ownership either, simply that they supported it in the specific context of militias and, as a group, did not defend it outside that context. That is why the second amendment specifically references state militias. It's about the balance of state vs federal power and as such a modern version would relate to the modern military needs of states to counter the United States.
Even if we assume that a modern second would continue to guarantee individual access to military weapons that still doesn't really support the assertion that encryption would be on that list. After all, the original didn't refer to other military necessities like horses or ships, only the weapons themselves.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 17 2021, @08:24AM (6 children)
You mean "noncitizens" there. Neither slaves, nor native Americans were citizens, or could become citizens. And freed men were never free, they were always subject to some slave owner claiming that they were runaway slaves. Citizens could own weapons, non-citizens could not.
That requirement to serve still exists to this day. If you are called, you face severe penalties for not answering the call. That whole "draft dodger" thing was still a thing when I was a young man.
If you are an American male between the ages of 17 and 40, you ARE a member of the militia. (I think that upper age may have changed, but the idea remains the same.)
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Arik on Wednesday March 17 2021, @08:40AM (3 children)
But nota bene that was /not/ the intention of many of the founders. Certainly not of Jefferson. Jefferson envisioned peaceful integration of the natives and those of mixed blood. He encouraged mixing, to hasten the integration.
It was after the turn of the century, and after the demise or senility of many of the founders, that course was reversed, as our continent was infected with the "Romantic" delusions of continental Europe.
"draft dodger"
The draft is not technically the militia. The draft is a substitute for the militia, invented by folks that were very averse to the founders notion of militia.
Here is the /current/ legal definition of militia: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246
"The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and [under 45 years of age /or/ under 64 years of age /and/ a former member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps] who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States [or are] female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard."
Sounds both sexist and ageist to my ears.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Touché) by PiMuNu on Wednesday March 17 2021, @01:45PM
> Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps
WTF? Who excluded the Space Marines?
(Score: 1) by js290 on Wednesday March 17 2021, @03:11PM (1 child)
"At no point in history did we have warmongers who were not warriors... Hannibal... Napoleon... Julian... Valerian.. etc" --Nassim Taleb [bit.ly]
(Score: 3, Informative) by PiMuNu on Wednesday March 17 2021, @04:57PM
> At no point in history did we have warmongers who were not warriors
I didn't watch the Youtube. But the headline is total balls. To skim across e.g. 18th century Britain:
* War of Spanish Succession; Marlborough (John Churchill) was a military guy. But Godolphin and Harley certainly were not.
* War of Austrian Succession; Duke of Cumberland (younger son of George II) participated reasonably actively. Pelham? Compton? Career politicians.
* Seven Years War; Pitt (the elder), who sorted out the seven years war, was not a military guy at all. Grenville etc? Not a chance.
* American War of independence; was a complete mess. Lord North was a career politician.
I guess one might argue that Britain was drawn into some of these wars rather than instigators. Certainly not the case of War of Austrian Succession - remember Jenkin's Ear!
(Score: 2) by helel on Wednesday March 17 2021, @12:44PM (1 child)
Actually, there were no citizenship restrictions for gun ownership and those native Americans and free African Americans could own (or sometimes were required to own) firearms in states where they were likewise required to serve in the militia. Likewise all white immigrants were both allowed to own guns and required to serve in the militia. Citizenship did not play any part in the laws.
Republican Patriotism [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by js290 on Wednesday March 17 2021, @03:17PM
Jocko Podcast 45 with Echo Charles - Wooden Leg, Native American Warrior "Now you must [surrender] your guns and your horses..." [bit.ly]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @08:32AM (5 children)
"Unfortunately, the black man was so deprived. Which lends credence to that old adage - the difference between a free man and a slave is the right to bear arms."
On that note, the NRA was originally founded by Union soldiers who wanted to organize gun drives to arm southern blacks so they could defend themselves against the KKK. How far that organization has strayed from its roots.
(Score: 2, Touché) by legont on Wednesday March 17 2021, @12:43PM (4 children)
Exactly. It's not an American invention either. The difference between English gentleman and so called free worker was the right to bear arms. This right was removed so almost all the Brits are slaves now; and they deserve it.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Wednesday March 17 2021, @01:48PM (3 children)
> almost all the Brits are slaves now
Laughs Out Loud.
(Score: 1) by js290 on Wednesday March 17 2021, @03:14PM (1 child)
The conspiracy to get the colonies back under the crown. [breitbart.com]
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Wednesday March 17 2021, @04:39PM
Laughs louder
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @08:43PM
do you doubt it? the Jews are bringing in africans and musrats to rape your kids and displace your workers and you can't/won't do anything about it. they even fine you for complaining on facebook.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @08:38PM (1 child)
"Unfortunately, the black man was so deprived. "
black human males are not "men" in the sense that the framers meant "men". sub-saharan blacks are a different subspecies than whites and don't belong in white countries. They were being sent back by Lincoln after he freed them, but "someone" had him killed before he could finish the task. Now, the Jews have brainwashed whites against their own best interests, and most whites would wail against the "injustice" of whites having their own country in peace; free from black murders and rapes.
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Thursday March 18 2021, @01:23PM
Orthodox, Reform, or Messianic?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @05:17AM
https://onionshare.org/ [onionshare.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @05:59AM
The real surprise is that Signal was working in China in the first place.
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday March 17 2021, @12:47PM
Russia asked Twitter to block content that is against the Russian Law or be blocked in a month.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-twitter-block/russia-will-block-twitter-in-one-month-unless-it-deletes-banned-content-russian-news-agencies-idUSKBN2B81KV [reuters.com]
Lets' see if Twitter is stronger than Telegram at avoiding the block...
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by richtopia on Wednesday March 17 2021, @01:39PM (1 child)
I like Signal but I'm still disappointed that they do not support federation. It would be much harder to block a messaging protocol than a service.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 17 2021, @08:53PM
Signal's server code is not FOSS anymore. Signal is proprietary bullshit. Matrix and xmpp with omemo are the way to go.