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Android sends 20x more data to Google than iOS sends to Apple, study says:
Whether you have an iPhone or an Android device, it's continuously sending data including your location, phone number, and local network details to Apple or Google. Now, a researcher has provided a side-by-side comparison that suggests that, while both iOS and Android collect handset data around the clock—even when devices are idle, just out of the box, or after users have opted out—the Google mobile OS collects about 20 times as much data than its Apple competitor.
Both iOS and Android, researcher Douglas Leith from Trinity College in Ireland said, transmit telemetry data to their motherships even when a user hasn't logged in or has explicitly configured privacy settings to opt out of such collection. Both OSes also send data to Apple and Google when a user does simple things such as inserting a SIM card or browsing the handset settings screen. Even when idle, each device connects to its back-end server on average every 4.5 minutes.
It wasn't just the OSes that sent data to Apple or Google. Preinstalled apps or services also made network connections, even when they hadn't been opened or used. Whereas iOS automatically sent Apple data from Siri, Safari, and iCloud, Android collected data from Chrome, YouTube, Google Docs, Safetyhub, Google Messenger, the device clock, and the Google search bar.
[...] Where Android stands out, Leith said, is in the amount of data it collects. At startup, an Android device sends Google about 1MB of data, compared with iOS sending Apple around 42KB. When idle, Android sends roughly 1MB of data to Google every 12 hours, compared with iOS sending Apple about 52KB over the same period. In the US alone, Android collectively gathers about 1.3TB of data every 12 hours. During the same period, iOS collects about 5.8GB.
Google has contested the findings, saying that they're based on faulty methods for measuring the data that's collected by each OS. The company also contended that data collection is a core function of any Internet-connected device.
[...] An Apple spokesperson also spoke on the condition it be background. The spokesperson said that Apple provides transparency and control for personal information it collects, that the report gets things wrong, that Apple offers privacy protections that prevent Apple from tracking user locations, and that Apple informs users about the collection of location-related data.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @02:36PM (3 children)
When people accept that on principle, what reason to split hairs about the amount of info the thing sends? It is "everything the real owner wants to know about you today" in any case.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:22PM (2 children)
Because! Tribalism! Android is #1! There Apple! Try and match that! Google sends 20x as much personal data to the mother ship!
(but didn't we already have an SN article on this topic?)
For extra credit, get a smart watch! It can also receive and place calls.
Google's WearOS helps the mother ship to know:
* when you sleep
* when you wake up
* how often you wake up in the night
* how well you sleep
* if you snore
* if you have sex, when and how often, maybe even with who
* your heart rate
* unusual wrist motions
* how much you exercise
* how often you check the time, weather, or look at your messages on your watch
* the mean interval between any incoming alert (text, message, etc on your phone) and how quickly you turn your wrist so you can see the watch face
Whether it can send your dreams to Google is unknown.
Of course, one can remove the watch at bedtime and put it on the charger.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:36PM (1 child)
What would be unusual about THAT?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday April 07 2021, @04:02PM
Because Covid caused everyone to stop shaking hands, some other form of routine greeting had to substitute.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:14PM (3 children)
"Google has contested the findings, saying that they're based on faulty methods for measuring the data that's collected by each OS. The company also contended that data collection is a core function of any Internet-connected device."
Google: "We identified flaws in the researcher's methodology for measuring data volume and disagree with the paper’s claims that an Android device shares 20 times more data than an iPhone. According to our research, these findings are off by an order of magnitude, and we shared our methodology concerns with the researcher before publication."
Google is correct:
- "Whereas iOS automatically sent Apple data from Siri, Safari, and iCloud"
- "Android collected data from Chrome, YouTube, Google Docs, Safetyhub, Google Messenger, the device clock, and the Google search bar."
There's no mention how much data about Chrome, Youtube, Google Docks, (safety hub?), Google Messenger, (Google search bar) is sent to Google on iOS. Google didn't mention that the data was WRONG by an order of magnitude, just that the data was OFF by an order of magnitude. Since the company deliberately didn't specify this easily-in-their-favor wording, I have to conclude that they are trying to hide something and that the correct statistics are closer to 200x more data is shared with Google than with Apple.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by TheRaven on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:18PM (1 child)
I think this is the really telling part here: From the perspective of Google, collecting data about you is the purpose of any Internet-connected device. That is far more damning than anything about the volume of data collected.
sudo mod me up
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @08:18PM
No. The fact that Goo answered this report is most telling.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:54PM
No 3rd party apps.
Bite me Google. Oh wait, nothing from Google on the phone either. You CAN’T bite me.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:20PM (22 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:25PM (4 children)
We can no longer trust Google. Everyone should now install and use ${new-browser}!
But what is the currently favored browser?
I routinely do gross error testing of my application on Chrome, FireFox, Edge and sometimes IE.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:32PM (3 children)
Firefox is the tried and true browser, at least for me. When you say Edge, you may as well say Chrome+Microsoft Data Hoovering. Internet Explorer is that rotting banana peel that they forgot to take to the compost. As far as Chrome is concerned it's tainted by the Google.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:43PM (2 children)
For all personal browsing I use FireFox or Chrome.
For testing application I also sometimes use Edge and IE.
Yes, Edge seems to have many of the same issues (no, not bugs!) as Chrome, strangely.
IE you say? You wouldn't believe how many people still click it because they just don't know any better. Inertia. Or Microsoft trained them well.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday April 07 2021, @04:02PM (1 child)
Essentially, the "that's the internet" button crowd. What do you mean browser?
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Touché) by DannyB on Wednesday April 07 2021, @04:04PM
Yep.
But as long as their money is good and they want our app, we'll take it.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:29PM (2 children)
I'm sorry, but just about literally anything at the time was better than Internet Explorer. Microsoft still had the anti-trust lawsuit taint back then and Google was still "fighting the good fight" / "Don't be evil." So, it all makes sense, if thinking about it in terms, then. Now, Google is in trouble with their own ant-trust kinds of things and they've removed the "Don't be evil" motto. Thus, the only real reason for them to do that is, because they've ceased to fight the good fight. They're packed full of lawyers, bureaucrats, pointy-haired bosses, catberts, etc.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:54PM
>> catberts, etc.
Catbert would never hire the whiny company-destroying SJWs that have infiltrated Google.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @06:38PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:43PM (12 children)
I remember back in the day that people were excited about having a phone that could run apps / be programmed without a ridiculously limited subset of a language (wml, j2me) or shitty sdk (brew) required.
I think this was at the time when Apple had just released the iPhone but wasn't yet open for third party development.
Yes, google's overall reputation wasn't so dark yet. This was the time people seemed almost ready to suck cock to get a gmail invite.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:52PM (11 children)
I remember J2ME. (Java "lite" on all of the billions of mobile phones in the pre smartphone daze.)
It didn't have any floating point. I was building my own "asteroids" clone. (And did successfully build it. Gave it to a few friends. Once that accomplishment achieved, I moved on.)
I needed trig functions. I wanted to draw the ship and rocks as sprites sub classed from a common super class. Each line vector figure (ship or rock) had a series of points relative to a "center" point. It was the center point of the sprite that moved on each frame update. In my game, the rocks rotated, unlike original asteroids. These points around the center point were expressed in polar (r-theta) form. Just draw a line from the first point to the last, and then back to the first, thus drawing a closed figure. (Ship or rock)
I need to convert from polar form to x-y coords, and then offset to the x-y center of the sprite before drawing on screen.
But J2ME only had long integers and no trig functions (or log, power, etc)
There was some library that had the name "bear" in it. This used a 64-bit long, dividing it into 32-bit mantissa and fraction. Trig functions did a few taylor series terms, and that was more than good enough.
Wow, those were ye olden daze. And it was after the year 2000. Wow, I'm getting old.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Wednesday April 07 2021, @04:55PM (10 children)
Good work!
Again, good work! It sure beats the alternative.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Thursday April 08 2021, @04:19PM (9 children)
Thanks.
And that wasn't for work, it was for personal amusement.
A lot of things like that. Once I accomplish it, it suddenly gets boring and I try at something else that I've never tried.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by RS3 on Thursday April 08 2021, @05:25PM (8 children)
Yes, me too. Science and tech have always been personal interests / passions, so I often do things for fun. And like you, and many of us, once I learn / accomplish (conquer?) something, it's on to the next thing. Wish I could capitalize on ideas more! A guy I know is quite wealthy as an "inventor". Not really sure what that means, other than "engineer / tech enthusiast who's also good at business, patenting things, selling / licensing those ideas". Sigh. I've always needed a Steve Jobs, as I'm more the Woz (and you probably even more so, having done so much Apple development...)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Thursday April 08 2021, @06:08PM (7 children)
I think in about 2010 I converted that J2ME "asteroids" into an Android app. Basically, re-write it since app structure and UI are so different. But I was able to copy-paste some of the Java sprite code, which was amusing.
On the J2ME app, the UI was simple. A basic menu. A joke "insert coin" screen with a message suggesting that on some phones it might be possible to force a coin into the battery charger connector, or on other phones wedge a thin coin such as a US dime in between keys on the keypad. Then the game itself was based on pressing 4 keys of the flip-phone or candy-bar-phone keypad:
1 - rotate ship clockwise
4 - rotate ship counterclockwise
(these two keys under your left thumb while holding phone)
3 - fire
6 - thrust
You could rotate AND fire at the same time. I polled the key pressed states rather than looking at key-down / key-up events.
On Android, I had to create on-screen buttons which didn't work all that great. Had to use multi-touch in order to be able to rotate and fire at same time. It was more complicated to get right. And worst of all -- you couldn't feel but buttons with your eyes focused on the action on screen. An inferior experience.
While I don't do as many projects these days, there is still I would like to do soon. I want to build an app, something, maybe just a watch face for my smart watch (bought about 1 year ago). On Android, I was able to get an interactive Linux prompt into the phone, while being able to use the phone (eg, answer a call). I'm not sure if it will be possible to get a shell prompt from the watch using the tooling. Don't know yet. I haven't read enough.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday April 09 2021, @01:18AM (6 children)
You're doing really awesome stuff! I haven't done as much code development as I'd like to. I kind of do some of everything- mostly overall systems stuff, networking, admin, etc. In the 90s and early 2000s I did C, assy, and still do a little, various scripting, html, but not as much as I'd like. Never done java.
Now I'm actually working full-time in a food factory, doing much mechanical stuff (which I'm very good at) and hoping to get into PLC / SCADA / HMI / ???, as we have like nobody to do it. Having a terrible time getting AB PLC software to install. The few "free" versions either will only install on Win 10 (which I'd rather not use), and older versions give some useless vbscript error message. Anyway, it's all very interesting, somewhat challenging, but I'm not sure how long I'll do it. Really good people, new company, somewhat naive investors, lots of broken or half-broken stuff. Quite physical, but mostly easy mentally, so I look good to mgt.
You were mentioning about trig functions- can you build a LUT? (Look Up Table) Not sure how much storage you have, but LUTs have been very popular in systems for years. I remember (very) long ago LUT ROMs for character / font generators in CRT displays.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @03:06PM (5 children)
For trig functions, especially having 32-bit mantissa and 32-bit fraction, a half dozen or so iterations of a Taylor series gets you plenty close. As I seem to recall, that library I used to do this had hard-coded the first terms of the Taylor series expansion directly in-line as a single long expression on the return statement of, for example, the Sin function. So it was fast, and close enough.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday April 09 2021, @03:58PM (4 children)
Wow, super cool DannyB! It's been too many years since I've done much math, "discrete time systems", etc. I'm inspired to read up on Taylor series. Thanks!
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @04:16PM
It's really quite simple. Look here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_series#Trigonometric_functions [wikipedia.org]
See how the Sin x is just the sum (alternating add/subtract) of a series of fractions?
For a quick and dirty Sin function, just hard code the first handful of terms in a single expression. No loop required.
Sin x = x - x3 / 3! + x5 / 5! - x7 / 7! + ...
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @04:26PM
Here is my own handy-dandy Java factorial function that avoids iteration. Horribly formatted because of SN rules. On each 'case' line, I aligned the long integers such that all of the trailing letter L aligned on the right. So there are increasing amounts of space between the 'return' statements and the first digit of a result.
static public long factorial( int n ) {
switch( n ) {
case 0:
case 1: return 1L;
case 2: return 2L;
case 3: return 6L;
case 4: return 24L;
case 5: return 120L;
case 6: return 720L;
case 7: return 5_040L;
case 8: return 40_320L;
case 9: return 362_880L;
case 10: return 3_628_800L;
case 11: return 39_916_800L;
case 12: return 479_001_600L;
case 13: return 6_227_020_800L;
case 14: return 87_178_291_200L;
case 15: return 1_307_674_368_000L;
case 16: return 20_922_789_888_000L;
case 17: return 355_687_428_096_000L;
case 18: return 6_402_373_705_728_000L;
case 19: return 121_645_100_408_832_000L;
case 20: return 2_432_902_008_176_640_000L;
}
return 0L;
}
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @04:35PM (1 child)
To calculate the increasing factorials in the denominators of that Taylor series for the Sin function, the observant will note that to calculate 5! you can start from the 3! you previously calculated. Similarly to calculate 7! you can start from the 5!. But the direct constants in the factorial function I posted can be directly used in the expansion.
For the numerators in the Taylor series, you'll note that to calculate x5, you can start with the x3 you already calculated.
You don't need a loop either. (hint it may all get done in registers on the bare metal)
x3 = x * x * x;
x5 = x3 * x * x;
x7 = x5 * x * x;
etc.
Then:
Sin x = x - (x3/6) + (x5/120) - (x7/5040) + ....
And they say Java programmers write horrible, slow, bloated code. Somehow I got the title of senior software developer.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @04:37PM
Furthermore, those repeated x*x terms could have been in another temporary called x2.
Would a Dyson sphere [soylentnews.org] actually work?
(Score: 2) by looorg on Wednesday April 07 2021, @05:50PM
Ye olden days was sadly not that long ago ...
(Score: 4, Interesting) by knarf on Wednesday April 07 2021, @03:49PM (3 children)
An AOSP-derived Android distribution sends infinitely less data to either Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon or any of the other data hogs out there. Don't add any "Google apps" - yes, the device is perfectly usable without, I've been doing this for more than 10 years - and add a firewall - Android allows filtering outgoing traffic, something Apple does not offer (and even if they did they would make sure to exclude data destined for their own domains) - so anyone who cares about his or her data goes that way instead of slavishly following the iSheep or G-droids.
LineageOS has OTA updates, keeping a device up to date is just as much/little work as keeping a stock distribution updated. Use F-Droid and/or another free-software repository to get the few "apps" you can not live without, use Aurora Store for those very few "apps" you need to get from the Play Store (banking apps are a good example of such). If you want to go the whole hog you can install Termux and the Termux widget, write a number of scripts to enable/disable apps on demand and keep those closed-source apps from tracking you other than at the moment you actually need to use them: enable app by clicking in the widget, use the app, disable the app by clicking in the widget, done. Rinse. Repeat.
Want privacy? Don't use proprietary services, whether they be from Apple, Google or anyone else.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @05:23PM (1 child)
So, you have a phone number assigned to a mobile phone, yet the records show you are not sending data to the appropriate government authority (via the compensated middlemen of Apple or Google or someone else)? You obviously have something to hide, comrade, and you are now very very interesting to those who have power and are determined to keep it. We'll move you very high up the list of "possible subversive", to be collected and processed when convenient.
Okay, that might be a paranoid fantasy... but it might not. I'm just pointing out that in some circumstances it can be valuable to blend into the rest of the sheep. Whether we are, or might soon be, in those circumstances is an exercise left to the reader.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @01:50AM
If I'm a criminal or similar I'd use a burner phone when "doing stuff".
The Google spy phone that I've been using for years? It'll be with my alibi provider at home.
(Score: 1) by js290 on Thursday April 08 2021, @05:04AM
https://e.foundation/ [e.foundation] & https://lineage.microg.org/ [microg.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @04:37PM
it's like the bad old days, when two separate companies were acctually one entity (wintel).
today it would be qualcoid or andrcom. (sure sure there is also amd or exinos or some other "also ran via").
these monstrosities (hardware + software single entitys) seem to spring up anew.
maybe, again, some genius attends a os programming class with a christmas tree like prof at a uni in a country with th the most lakes and gives us a alternative ...?
let's be honest, tho there is asops fables, the hardware manufacturer ultimately decides if a new version of the fable will run (picture: gray slim monster, with slim dripping from long pointy finger, waving it and gurgeling " no, no! no firmware updates for you!" and then happyily flinging snot into the dark pit of fear were the hacker goblins mark the days on the calendar until the next happy day of "unfixable exploit" because of no new firmware and thus no software-os update appears).
(Score: 2) by looorg on Wednesday April 07 2021, @05:53PM
While it's annoying and creepy the amount of data they collect I'm less certain that measuring it in size is a very good metric. After all if one reads, or even glances, at the paper one can note that from the examples he gives there is a lot of setup and padding involved in the various contacts so not all data sent is personal information, some of it might be device information that may or may not be interesting. That said if they didn't find it interesting there is no need to collect it. Some of it probably goes to the advertisers and some of it is kept around to just see if the device is working properly.
That said there should be a fucking opt-out/in button -- preferably opt-in so you can chose if you want to share data with the manufacturer. But then this just isn't a phone issue anymore since lots of devices and such do it so perhaps we have just gotten used to it.
Another aspect of this is that if you phone every day sends a few gb of data to Apple/Google etc that is data you the customer pay for. So you are paying for being spied upon and you can't turn it off. If you have some monthly plan it might be less of an issue, after all over a month it probably isn't size wise enough to show a decent modern webpage (which by itself is quite fucked up) but if you are using a pre-paid card they are literally stealing money from your card to feed their data-habbit. I'm sure all the people, including myself, somewhere in that textblob you have to agree to to even be able to use your phone they mention that and you agree to carry the cost. But it's not like you have an option -- other then not having a phone.
(Score: 2) by dltaylor on Wednesday April 07 2021, @07:14PM (2 children)
Exactly how is my Android phone sending data to Google? They may have a deal with my underlying carrier, like the TLAs do, to get real-time and logged location data from the cell infrastructure, and if it is sending texts but not putting them in any sort of log, I don't have the equipment now to check for that.
I have about 10 minutes worth of data plan, in reality. It came bundled with the inexpensive voice/text plan. About the only time either it or WiFi are enabled is when I need to get a "multimedia" text from someone whose phone is too "smart" to just send plain text or text+emojis, but that is less than 30 seconds at a shot, maybe once per week. Watching the "data plan" use doesn't show any more than normal overhead for the size messages I get. My devices memory use doesn't show any amount of logging being buffered in RAM or SDcard.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Tork on Wednesday April 07 2021, @08:20PM (1 child)
I'd personally love to see this issue pressed, if anything, because lack of data transparency is an avenue for your privacy to leak away.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @01:58AM
Really? My cheap Xiaomi phone lets me block apps from using mobile data and/or wifi on a per app basis. I can also set a data limit and a warning threshold. And I can get data usage stats too. I doubt it's that different from many other android phones.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday April 07 2021, @07:41PM (1 child)
In other words, Apple has the better compression algorithm. ;-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday April 07 2021, @10:19PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by tizan on Wednesday April 07 2021, @08:11PM
It depends what is sent...
The volume matters only if it is eating your data plan quota etc..
What matters what info is sent
For e.g if it is just sending your position every 30 mins
compared to sending temperature of your phone, cpu usage, battery level etc etc every 1 min... the first one is more privacy related to the latter though the latter being more voluminous.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 07 2021, @09:23PM (3 children)
Lately G**gl* keeps asking for my birthday - Month, Day and Year. On both of my Gm**l accounts.
They say there is a law requiring it. They don't say under whose jurisdiction.
Maybe they are worried that I might respond to one of those pen-is-mightier advertisements.
I've had those two Gm**l accounts for 20 years. Surely I'm old enough by now.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:13AM (2 children)
> I've had those two Gm**l accounts for 20 years. Surely I'm old enough by now.
Gmail went into limited beta on April Fools Day 2004 (I remember it was front page news on the evening standard - I assumed it was a joke as they promised 1GB for free, when hotmail and other competitors were giving about 10 or 20mb)
Buchheit didn't even start work on gmail until August 2021, so I'm surprised you've had an account that's 4 months older that the person who created it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @04:06PM (1 child)
I got my invitation from them.
And Bill Gates used to send me Christmas cards.
And I still have a Seagate ST-225 Hard Drive.
And still have an HP-41C calculator
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @04:19PM
Besides, all those years are beginning to blur together.
And Bill Gates only celebrates his own birthday, now.