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Journal by fustakrakich
Joe Manchin stands as firm as Jabel-al-Tariq
How perfect!
The Charade in DC will run until November 2022, at least
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
(1)
Kirk to Enterprise -- beam down yeoman Rand and a six-pack.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @07:23PM (8 children)
Just handing over the keys to the kingdom on a narrow majority isn't a great plan. The filibuster is useful - and him telling his buddies that they need to cool their jets isn't all bad.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 08 2021, @07:27PM (6 children)
I've had my concerns about the elimination of the filibuster although I've come to the conclusion that we should get rid of it to increase accountability to the voters.
I don't hold it against anybody if they disagree with me though!
(Score: 1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday April 08 2021, @07:51PM (5 children)
People like you cry all day about filibusters and guns being bad and abolishing the electoral college and promoting woke bullshit right up until the day your guy isn't in charge anymore and all that shit you were previously for starts getting turned against you. We already saw it once, and we'll be seeing it again in a year or three.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 08 2021, @08:05PM (4 children)
Your projection is showing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:29PM (3 children)
While alive, a human consumes carbohydrates. When dead, the body decays to hydrocarbons.
Think about it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:40PM (2 children)
Did you play an army surplus store clerk in the movie Falling Down?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @10:17PM
I am the exegete.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @10:27PM
army surplus?! I thought that was a sex shop.. oh wait, that's Pulp Fiction
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @10:24AM
No, the filibuster is profoundly anti-democratic and is one of the things that makes our government absolutely dysfunctional.
It's good for fascists and corporatists who simply want to obstruct to preserve the country's status as an oligarchy, however. Even reforming it to make it a talking filibuster would be a massive improvement.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 08 2021, @07:24PM (14 children)
I saw an interview with Manchin on Axios and he actually came off fairly reasonable.
In that interview he said he was in favor of returning to the talking filibuster where they would be forced to actually get up and speak to hold the floor (like we see on TV) instead of just sending an email (which is how it actually works now).
I don't necessarily agree with that position but I can understand it.
In this op ed he says he won't do anything to weaken it. So is he backtracking or does he not consider a return to the talking filibuster to be a "weakening."
Unlike Republicans, we're allowed to disagree with each other in the Democratic party. Everybody not being in lock-step is how a party of individuals trying to govern in the best manner possible should work.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:16PM (13 children)
If indeed that is all that is required now (sending an email) then I would very much be in favor of returning to the rules of "one must talk to maintain the floor" that requires them to actually do more than send an email.
The filibuster is a useful tool for preventing the wishes of the minority (in a majority wins voting system) from being continuously ignored and/or trampled by the majority. [1] Without something like a filibuster being available, the majority group can simply vote for whatever they want, without even listening to or consulting the minority group, simply because they have 50+1 votes by virtue of being in the majority at that time. The threat of the minority being able to filibuster serves as a check on the power of the majority to just "vote for whatever they want", without consideration of or concession to the inputs from the minority. And much of our system of government was deliberately setup to try to force compromise, not simply allow whomever has 50+1 votes (or the equivalent in the House) to do whatever they want whenever they want with impunity.
But, for the same reasons as above, the filibuster also needs to be a very difficult weapon for the minority to utilize, to serve as a check against the minority simply using it against everything simply for the purpose of clogging up the system. Which is why the requirement to be standing at the lectern, constantly talking, needs to be part of the requirement for wielding the filibuster against the majority. The minority must really feel like they have no other option before they decide to un-crate and fire a filibuster into the chambers.
Now, like any tool, can the filibuster be mis-used? Yes, indeed it can. But before one runs off like F... yelling "off with its head" in regards to the filibuster, one must carefully consider if the value gained by proper use of the filibuster outweighs the loss from the occasional mis-use. All in all I'd say that the value gained by serving as a check against "majority wins, every time, so sorry suckers" is more valuable than the loss from the occasional mis-use (provided the 'rule' is "must be standing at the lectern and talking" to filibuster).
[1] Do note that I carefully worded the above to deliberately leave out the R and D labels, as whichever label is majority vs. minority flip flops periodically, and the discussion above is not related to whichever label holds the majority position vs minority position at any given time.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @03:49AM (12 children)
Good summary, but you left something out.
Manchin makes mention of wild swings in policy. We see that, this election, with Biden inviting illegal aliens to "surge the border". We went straight from 'Doors are locked, nobody home, go away' to 'Walk in and make yourselves at home!' And people are dying on the border as a result. Even 9 year old little girls. I watched a video of a coyote climb the border wall, and just DROP two toddlers on the ground, then run away back to Mexico. If the Border Patrol hadn't been watching, those two babies would have died in the desert.
Wild swings in policy are unforgivable. They are the exact opposite of stability. We will become a third world hellhole very quickly with wild swings in policy every two years.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @03:19PM (3 children)
"I would in fact make sure that there is, that we immediately surge to the border" -- Joe Biden
Who do you think "we" means? Do you frequently refer to foreign nationals as "we?"
Or, can you read, and tell that he was referring to US officials?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Friday April 09 2021, @06:06PM
Somebody financed the "surge". Biden opened the door. Yet he is deporting more Haitians than ever [wmfe.org]. Very interesting... same shit different day... cui bono?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @06:57PM (1 child)
Interviews with migrants at the border paint the picture that they understood Border Jumpin' Joe was inviting them. Of course, the old fool ain't doing much jumpin' himself these days. He has problems navigating stairs . . .
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @08:41PM
Maybe they should substitute ramps for stairs. xPotus had fun with those.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:49PM (7 children)
I was trying hard to remain on a single topic, that being the filibuster and what value it brings to the table by having it available in the senate.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Saturday April 10 2021, @08:41PM (6 children)
It is a very necessary prop for political theater. It provides a way to shift blame from the majority in power when they fail to pass needed legislation to get things done. So here, the democrats can continue to blame republicans as if it is their fault despite their minority status. They played the same game even more overtly during the 111th Congress in Obama's first two years. They had to, to keep universal health care *off the table* (Pelosi's words). It cost them 63 seats in congress in 2010 and made Trump possible. But to them, it's all good. The DNC/GOP continues its stranglehold on the process, and easily maintains a 98% reelection rate despite all the publicly displayed angst for the cameras, so the regular back and forth flip between the two means little to nothing.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @09:23PM (5 children)
If miss-used by the minority as merely a "log-jam" to prevent anything from moving downstream then yes, it does provide this, and this would be one of those miss-use aspects I spoke of.
But, if the minority does not use the filibuster, and the majority still fails to pass needed legislation to get things done, then its presence was not related to the minorities failing. This is where you have to be careful. When the majority accuses the minority of "log-jamming" the works, you have to fact-check the majority to see if the minority actually used a filibuster or not. If no filibuster was used (which should be the case in most instances, provided the rule is "must keep talking at the lectern") then the majority is just talking out their ass.
But your attitude is so typical of democrat thinking: "I want my candy, and I want it now" -- without regards to any other consequences of "getting your candy".
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday April 10 2021, @09:56PM (4 children)
You make no sense. They will know when the filibuster is used when the votes are counted. And the republicans have said in so many words that they will block everything the dems propose. Stop playing games. Failure to pass falls on the majority.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:38AM (3 children)
Are you actually this stupid?
Do you even know what a filibuster is? Because if a filibuster is used, there are no votes yet counted, because the process wasn't allowed to get to a vote, because of a filibuster. That's the entire aspect of a filibuster. One or more senators keep talking, and the bill never makes it to a vote, until someone compromises somewhere (or the 65 votes [or whatever the supermajority amount] needed occur on the point of halting an ongoing filibuster.
And you believe everything a politician says? "Politician" really ought to be defined in the dictionary as: "professional liar".
Did you even read my piece on the value? The value is in causing the majority (the group with 50+1 votes) to stop and at least try to come to a compromise with the minority (the group with only 49 votes) due to the threat that the minority might use a filibuster. So naturally the minority will threaten to filibuster, that's the value add of having it as an available option. It's mere presence, and the mere threat it might be used, increases the likelihood of a compromise (note, 'likelihood', not guarantee).
As well, has there been a filibuster used yet since this congress took their seats in Jan? If the answer is no, then shut the fuck up until one actually gets deployed.
Point out where I said otherwise.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:35PM (1 child)
Arguing with him is pointless, he is just using your comment to push his both-sides-but-dems-bad narrative. Justashill.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @06:18PM
So very true.
One wonders if he is a paid shill.
And if so, who is paying, and by how much?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday April 11 2021, @06:43PM
By saying the filibuster can be useful. It is only useful to the minority, and to the majority as an excuse for failure. It is bullshit. The democrats are in the majority. All failure is on them, not the republicans. Ignore the republicans, and put the squeeze on your Joe Manchin to push through the blockage. Anybody with his power has a weak spot, use it, and quityerbellyachin"! Or you can let the republicans win back their majority, which suits your DNC just fine. It's not slowing down the money or reducing reelection rates. From their viewpoint the machine is running very smoothly. You guys are oiling and powering it.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by BK on Thursday April 08 2021, @07:53PM (16 children)
Should McConnell and the Rs have abolished the filibuster in 2017? Or was it OK then?
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 08 2021, @08:07PM (14 children)
The Republicans DID abolish the filibuster, for Supreme Court nominees.
So like usual they are being complete hypocrites.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @08:40PM (13 children)
Interesting how fusty goes on at length about every tiny thing the Democrats do and then excuses his lack of Repubican coverage as "they're hopeless why bother?" I'll grant him this, he learned from all the criticism that he must work harder at pretending to be both-sides-objective while constantly trashing Dems as the problem. He switched up his tactics, leaned his posts a little more left, and has continued his agenda without losing a beat.
He doesn't want liberals and conservatives to actually come together and solve problems, he wants liberals to look bad for not solving problems and conservatives to not take any further PR hits. He can admit Repubicans are shit, because even Runaway and TMB say so, there is no danger to his occasional trashing of Republicans.
If he was honest he would be highlighting both party's corruption in order to unify conservatives and liberals against the two party nonsense. If we banded together and dropped the more contentious issues for a short bit we could make progress.
However, conservatives don't want to make things better, they want to stop all change and progress and they realize the demographics are against them. So the hardcore Conservatives will never work with any liberal which is why we get all the trolling, bad faith arguments, and propaganda journals from fusty here. Every fraction of a percent increase in disaffected liberal voters is a win for them.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:02PM (4 children)
You can complain about fusty's fair and balanced coverage until the cows come home, or you can just read DNCMonkey if you want the latest spin on Republicans. Wrongdoing by the Biden administration and the Democrats should be acknowledged, since most media outlets are giving them a pass.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:18PM (2 children)
How many posts have you seen defending Cuomo's alleged sexual harassment?
Vs.
How many posts have you seen defending Gaetz's alleged sex trafficking? (here's about 20)) [soylentnews.org]
Just more both-sides bullshit...
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:31PM
Yeah! Why do you keep bringing that up? There is no *both sides*
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:47PM
Cuomo's alleged sexual harassment didn't matter until after he stopped being useful as an anti-Trump spokesman. Sorry ladies, I don't care what he said to you years ago. Reelect Cuomo.
Gaetz is guilty of having bad hair and being anonymously smeared by the media. If he actually did anything wrong, it will come out soon enough.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:43PM
"fusty's fair and balanced coverage until the cows come home"
Were you unironically trying to invoke the Faux Newz bullshit catchphrase? It is nice to have my theory validated, the rightwing nutters with TDS & BDS just love fusty journals!
(Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @03:52AM (7 children)
Which party sneaked that Critical Race Theory into required government employee training? No R approved of that shit, I'm sure.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:33AM (6 children)
What even *is* "critical race theory" anyway? Can you explain it? And if you do, and I go look it up later, will I find a substantially different definition?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:37AM (4 children)
Yeah, when you cut through the shit, critical race theory says that "White man guilty! Black man innocent! Brown men are suspect! You OWES US motherfuckers!"
Among all the crap in there, you'll find that tired old refraind "Only white people can be racist". Then it goes on to inform you that "All white people are racist!"
If you want the finer points, you'll have to look it up yourself. I read through it, and it's a Kafkaesque runaround that starts with the conclusion that white people are evil, and you can probably never redeem yourself. Those who work really hard to redeem themselves might be fit to serve the black man.
They have turned genuine white supremacism on it's head, changed white to black, and they call it "justice", or "equity" or some half assed stupid term. It is precisely what I have bitched about, ranted about, warned about, all along.
You'll love it, from your unique "cross sectional" position.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:12PM (3 children)
I'd be interested in seeing what happens when these lenses are applied to a place where white people aren't in power. China, for example. This sounds to me like most modern racism falls out of whoever happens to be in power, so it's only an innately white problem in places like the US. In Japan, for example, this argument works precisely the same except with the native Yamato people; in China, same again, except it's Han supremacy rather than pale-Caucasian supremacy (ask the Uighurs!).
This also hints at possible solutions: since racial and economic injustice are inextricably linked, it follows that fixing the economic disparities would go a long way toward cutting down on the actual racism.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:59AM (1 child)
This applies to most any situation. The group in power (no matter their skin color) gain more than the "others" (of some other skin color) who are not in power.
That gain flows, largely, straight from simply being "in power".
But for someone wanting to find "racism" around every corner, and attempts to define anything they don't like or agree with as "racist" it is trivially easy to construct arguments for why those "in power" are racists using only that differential in "gain" that flows not from racism, but from simply being the ones "in power". And this is where the current power lies in the new woke's miss-use of racism in the manner they have been using it. They have, likely by accident, stumbled into a way to, for the most part, simply shutdown debate about any of their wants by simply labeling anything and everything that is not sucking up to their pre-ordained beliefs as racist.
It won't take long (but it will take too long as well) before their cries of "racism" will have gone the same way as "the boy who cried wolf" from the children's fable. They are so over-using the racism "shutdown debate" card that everyone who had been listening will have become numb, and it will lose all of its power when that happens. And the sad part is they will have set-back any real work to deal with any leftover racism from years ago for a significant time period in the process. Doing immense damage in the process to the goals they want to gain.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11 2021, @04:45AM
Racism is one manifestation of this power differential since the power flows often break across racial lines. This is an inevitability since there wasn't *that* much mass migration before 500 years ago or so barring cases like the Vikings and Spaniards. And outward characteristics, all out of proportion to the tiny DNA changes that produced them, tend to set people on edge. It's a very ape-like way of looking at things and people.
Sorry, but I am *not* on your side here, nor am i saying what you think or wish I was saying. Outgroups are always going to be underpowered, and race and racial characteristics have always been an excuse the ingroup uses to make an outgroup. That is racism in its simplest, easiest to understand form: creating an outgroup based on race, however it is the ingroup is defining race.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:59AM
No, don't! [uighur.nl] It doesn't relate
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @09:10PM
https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reasons-critical-race-theory-terrible-dealing-racism/ [newdiscourses.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @12:04PM
Why would they? Their only serious goals are to serve corporations by obstructing the occasional good thing the Democrats do and pass tax cuts for the rich. The filibuster enables the former, and the latter can be done via budget reconciliation. They can also screw over women and minorities by packing the courts with authoritarian lunatics.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @08:44PM (6 children)
Nice partisan narrative you've got going here, you'll have to focus on the Republicans for a few months if you want anyone to believe you're not a conservative PR hack.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:23PM (5 children)
Have to wait until the dems give them the majority again. Right now, except for Manchin, republicans are irrelevant. I'm sure the Party is pleased.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @11:41PM (1 child)
Same excuse as always, was no different under the Rs but you probably hope that no one notices the holes in your increasingly tattered agenda.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday April 08 2021, @11:48PM
Democrats' fault if they don't want to win. You're just trying to blame squandered opportunities on other people
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Friday April 09 2021, @09:19PM (2 children)
Funny, the whole time the Republicans were in the majority, you claimed that you needed to solely criticize Democrats because they were the minority party supposedly making mistakes that would undermine their chance to take power, and that you'd focus on bashing Republicans as soon as they were the ones in that position.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 09 2021, @09:35PM (1 child)
There's just no reason to think about the republicans. I didn't vote for them. Whatever is said about them is water off a duck's back. They are happy just to have your attention. Democrats put themselves on this pedestal, they are going to get hammered when they fail to perform, like now, a repeat of a dozen years ago that fueled the Trump phenomenon. They will either oppose the republicans or remain complicit in the charade and maybe lose a couple of seats to make the excuses more plausible.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:42AM
Ruuuuh rooooh, your house of cards is falling down, falling down
Fusty's house is falling down
No fair milady
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @08:52PM (1 child)
N/t
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @11:01PM
https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/joe-manchin-filibuster-vote/2021/04/07/cdbd53c6-97da-11eb-a6d0-13d207aadb78_story.html [archive.is]
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:09PM (9 children)
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=42919&page=1&cid=1135420#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
Thanks again for clearing up any confusion about your personal motivations.\
#AzumaHazuki you might wanna save that comment for posterity
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:35AM (8 children)
That doesn't say anything we all didn't know. Fusty's obviously another slackjawed drooling "libertarian" asshole, just a bit better at method-acting than, say, Runaway is. We all know he's gonna be renting a room in Hell with the others like him when the time comes.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:46AM (1 child)
It makes his positions clear and puts lie to his constant protesttations about "both sides." Not everyone has the same experiences, so much of fusty's bullshit flies under people's radar since he focuses on the agreeably vague premise and he puts a lot of effort into claiming he is a real independent with no partisan bias. I tagged you for that link because it can be used much like runaway's murder rant to illustrate their true agendas. We knew the same thing about runaway, but having them out themselves is much more effective than trying to put the pieces together for someone else.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @01:30AM
Then let's make it a point to link to their frothier rants a whole bunch when replying to them, how about that? I have a journal entry that blockquotes Runaway's "kill 50 million progressives" rant its entirety for example; feel free to link it whenever he starts stirring shit.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday April 10 2021, @01:33AM (5 children)
:-) ha ha, Trump/Biden, you're funny
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:20PM (4 children)
Sorry, fistula-crack-itch, but the entire site's rumbled you. The fact that random-ass ACs are able to lay out your entire MO means there's a critical mass of people who are essentially vaccinated against your tricks now. One might almost say we're reaching herd immunity.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday April 10 2021, @07:08PM (3 children)
:-) Yes, you are a herd, and are immune. Keep the blinders on, or you're in for the shock of a lifetime
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @10:03PM (2 children)
That the dems are unlikely to make more than minimal progressive changes, and the republican that ran as democrat will torpedo anything that comes close to passing?
Sorry little shill, we already knew all of that when the DNC forced through Biden as the primary winner. We don't like it, but in case you forgot, still better than fascism! So we won't get true progress, and no one will be shocked but you will have a field day crowing about how bad the dems are while doing nothing to convince conservatives that voting for the GOP does nothing to help their positions.
(Score: 0, Troll) by fustakrakich on Monday April 12 2021, @12:41AM (1 child)
Uh huh, like you can tell the difference...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @02:06AM
Troll
:-) Heh, can always tell when zumi's friends are tuning in.