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Journal by fustakrakich
Joe Manchin stands as firm as Jabel-al-Tariq
How perfect!
The Charade in DC will run until November 2022, at least
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
The mosquito is the state bird of New Jersey.
-- Andy Warhol
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08 2021, @09:16PM (13 children)
If indeed that is all that is required now (sending an email) then I would very much be in favor of returning to the rules of "one must talk to maintain the floor" that requires them to actually do more than send an email.
The filibuster is a useful tool for preventing the wishes of the minority (in a majority wins voting system) from being continuously ignored and/or trampled by the majority. [1] Without something like a filibuster being available, the majority group can simply vote for whatever they want, without even listening to or consulting the minority group, simply because they have 50+1 votes by virtue of being in the majority at that time. The threat of the minority being able to filibuster serves as a check on the power of the majority to just "vote for whatever they want", without consideration of or concession to the inputs from the minority. And much of our system of government was deliberately setup to try to force compromise, not simply allow whomever has 50+1 votes (or the equivalent in the House) to do whatever they want whenever they want with impunity.
But, for the same reasons as above, the filibuster also needs to be a very difficult weapon for the minority to utilize, to serve as a check against the minority simply using it against everything simply for the purpose of clogging up the system. Which is why the requirement to be standing at the lectern, constantly talking, needs to be part of the requirement for wielding the filibuster against the majority. The minority must really feel like they have no other option before they decide to un-crate and fire a filibuster into the chambers.
Now, like any tool, can the filibuster be mis-used? Yes, indeed it can. But before one runs off like F... yelling "off with its head" in regards to the filibuster, one must carefully consider if the value gained by proper use of the filibuster outweighs the loss from the occasional mis-use. All in all I'd say that the value gained by serving as a check against "majority wins, every time, so sorry suckers" is more valuable than the loss from the occasional mis-use (provided the 'rule' is "must be standing at the lectern and talking" to filibuster).
[1] Do note that I carefully worded the above to deliberately leave out the R and D labels, as whichever label is majority vs. minority flip flops periodically, and the discussion above is not related to whichever label holds the majority position vs minority position at any given time.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @03:49AM (12 children)
Good summary, but you left something out.
Manchin makes mention of wild swings in policy. We see that, this election, with Biden inviting illegal aliens to "surge the border". We went straight from 'Doors are locked, nobody home, go away' to 'Walk in and make yourselves at home!' And people are dying on the border as a result. Even 9 year old little girls. I watched a video of a coyote climb the border wall, and just DROP two toddlers on the ground, then run away back to Mexico. If the Border Patrol hadn't been watching, those two babies would have died in the desert.
Wild swings in policy are unforgivable. They are the exact opposite of stability. We will become a third world hellhole very quickly with wild swings in policy every two years.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @03:19PM (3 children)
"I would in fact make sure that there is, that we immediately surge to the border" -- Joe Biden
Who do you think "we" means? Do you frequently refer to foreign nationals as "we?"
Or, can you read, and tell that he was referring to US officials?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Friday April 09 2021, @06:06PM
Somebody financed the "surge". Biden opened the door. Yet he is deporting more Haitians than ever [wmfe.org]. Very interesting... same shit different day... cui bono?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @06:57PM (1 child)
Interviews with migrants at the border paint the picture that they understood Border Jumpin' Joe was inviting them. Of course, the old fool ain't doing much jumpin' himself these days. He has problems navigating stairs . . .
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @08:41PM
Maybe they should substitute ramps for stairs. xPotus had fun with those.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:49PM (7 children)
I was trying hard to remain on a single topic, that being the filibuster and what value it brings to the table by having it available in the senate.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Saturday April 10 2021, @08:41PM (6 children)
It is a very necessary prop for political theater. It provides a way to shift blame from the majority in power when they fail to pass needed legislation to get things done. So here, the democrats can continue to blame republicans as if it is their fault despite their minority status. They played the same game even more overtly during the 111th Congress in Obama's first two years. They had to, to keep universal health care *off the table* (Pelosi's words). It cost them 63 seats in congress in 2010 and made Trump possible. But to them, it's all good. The DNC/GOP continues its stranglehold on the process, and easily maintains a 98% reelection rate despite all the publicly displayed angst for the cameras, so the regular back and forth flip between the two means little to nothing.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @09:23PM (5 children)
If miss-used by the minority as merely a "log-jam" to prevent anything from moving downstream then yes, it does provide this, and this would be one of those miss-use aspects I spoke of.
But, if the minority does not use the filibuster, and the majority still fails to pass needed legislation to get things done, then its presence was not related to the minorities failing. This is where you have to be careful. When the majority accuses the minority of "log-jamming" the works, you have to fact-check the majority to see if the minority actually used a filibuster or not. If no filibuster was used (which should be the case in most instances, provided the rule is "must keep talking at the lectern") then the majority is just talking out their ass.
But your attitude is so typical of democrat thinking: "I want my candy, and I want it now" -- without regards to any other consequences of "getting your candy".
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday April 10 2021, @09:56PM (4 children)
You make no sense. They will know when the filibuster is used when the votes are counted. And the republicans have said in so many words that they will block everything the dems propose. Stop playing games. Failure to pass falls on the majority.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:38AM (3 children)
Are you actually this stupid?
Do you even know what a filibuster is? Because if a filibuster is used, there are no votes yet counted, because the process wasn't allowed to get to a vote, because of a filibuster. That's the entire aspect of a filibuster. One or more senators keep talking, and the bill never makes it to a vote, until someone compromises somewhere (or the 65 votes [or whatever the supermajority amount] needed occur on the point of halting an ongoing filibuster.
And you believe everything a politician says? "Politician" really ought to be defined in the dictionary as: "professional liar".
Did you even read my piece on the value? The value is in causing the majority (the group with 50+1 votes) to stop and at least try to come to a compromise with the minority (the group with only 49 votes) due to the threat that the minority might use a filibuster. So naturally the minority will threaten to filibuster, that's the value add of having it as an available option. It's mere presence, and the mere threat it might be used, increases the likelihood of a compromise (note, 'likelihood', not guarantee).
As well, has there been a filibuster used yet since this congress took their seats in Jan? If the answer is no, then shut the fuck up until one actually gets deployed.
Point out where I said otherwise.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:35PM (1 child)
Arguing with him is pointless, he is just using your comment to push his both-sides-but-dems-bad narrative. Justashill.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @06:18PM
So very true.
One wonders if he is a paid shill.
And if so, who is paying, and by how much?
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Sunday April 11 2021, @06:43PM
By saying the filibuster can be useful. It is only useful to the minority, and to the majority as an excuse for failure. It is bullshit. The democrats are in the majority. All failure is on them, not the republicans. Ignore the republicans, and put the squeeze on your Joe Manchin to push through the blockage. Anybody with his power has a weak spot, use it, and quityerbellyachin"! Or you can let the republicans win back their majority, which suits your DNC just fine. It's not slowing down the money or reducing reelection rates. From their viewpoint the machine is running very smoothly. You guys are oiling and powering it.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..