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Journal by DannyB

Remember that Dominion (voting systems) sued Sidney Powell for $1.3 BILLION? (See first two paragraphs of this journal article.

Concurrently, elsewhere, there is an ongoing dispute because Sidney Powell sued the Michigan governor for (OMG!) stealing the election! (This is the same duly elected governor that a group of domestic terrorists tried to kidnap and murder some months back. With the happy approval of some SN readers.)

In the Michigan case the State AG is now asking the court to sanction Powell for lying. The AG points to Powell's defense in the Dominion lawsuit against her. Powell defends herself from Dominion by saying, pharaphrased: everyone knows I am a lying liar and I go on Fox Noise and lie all the time, and so no reasonable person would have believed any or all of the lies I told.

I guess it's one thing to tell those lies on Fox, and get sued for $1.3 BILLION for doing so. It is another thing to tell those same lies in court.

Sidney Powell's defense in the $1.3 billion Dominion lawsuit may be used against her in Michigan sanctions effort

Sidney Powell’s Admission In Dominion Case Could Haunt Her In Michigan As State AG Makes New Move For Sanctions

These lawsuits all seem to be getting much better traction in court by presenting facts and evidence than the 60+ lawsuits filed by Trump about the election being stolen, which went through the hands of 80 judges, many Republican judges, and many "in Trump's pocket" judges.

The wheels turn slowly when there is something really there to grind on. I'm assuming SN readers might like updates on the progress.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Dominion vs Fox News

Aside, I didn't think it worth mentioning in a journal article at the time, but since we're here, you probably all know there is yet a third lawsuit by a voting machine company. This was the $1.6 BILLION lawsuit by Dominion against Fox News. A direct link to the PDF of the complaint is here. This is 443 pages long. But don't despair! The complaint is only the first 139 pages. Which I have read, back on the day it came out. All the remaining pages are the exhibits supporting the complaint.

Dominion Voting sues Fox for $1.6B over 2020 election claims

Just bury your head in the sand and keep telling yourself the election was stolen.

Your vote is your voice. Democracy doesn't always go the way you would like it. When it doesn't, you don't have permission to try to overthrow the majority to put a minority government in power, and somehow believe that is legitimate -- while calling yourself a patriot. Four years ago democracy didn't go the way the majority of the population wanted -- but nobody tried to overthrow the government, or kidnap and murder state governors or congress members. Even if the court doesn't uphold your zero-evidence based fantasies, doesn't mean the court system is not working properly. Especially when handled by judges of your own party, and some of them appointed by the very person you are trying to forcibly put into power against the majority.

Use the soap box first. If your message is so bad that people don't agree with you at the ballot box, then maybe re-examine the message. That same advice applied to Democrats four years ago.

--
Conspiracy theories make stupid people feel special to have a secret unique nugget of information.

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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) 2
  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @02:43PM (152 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @02:43PM (#1135305) Journal

    but nobody tried to overthrow the government, or kidnap and murder state governors or congress members.

    Has anyone actually come up with evidence that was ever a thing in the January 6 protest? Doesn't look like it happened this time either.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @03:12PM (90 children)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday April 09 2021, @03:12PM (#1135317) Journal

      Has anyone actually come up with evidence that was ever a thing in the January 6 protest?

      Yep, and you can watch it for yourself.

      Here is a video of them chanting "Hang Mike Pence" and "Bring Out Pence." [pbs.org]

      Not that you will...

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @03:21PM (51 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @03:21PM (#1135326) Journal
        So do you have evidence to go with that? Exaggerated language is a thing. Just because they're chanting something doesn't show intent.
        • (Score: 5, Informative) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @03:31PM (50 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @03:31PM (#1135333) Journal

          What do you mean is there any evidence? The entire event is the evidence. And powerful evidence that event is.
          * They changed murderous intenet, but backed it up with . . .
          * A gallows at the event
          * Overpowering the police barricade (and don't call that non-violent). You don't "accidentally" over power a police line with linked metal barricades.
          * With violent rage they beat police officers, and how charming: using Trump 2020 flags, American flags, Confederate flags
          * Once inside they left written threats (eg, "justice is coming", etc)

          There is vastly more evidence. There are endless hours and hours of video freely available.

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @03:32PM (46 children)

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @03:32PM (#1135334) Journal

            Sorry. . . "chanted" murderous intent

            --
            People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
            • (Score: 0, Touché) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @03:35PM (45 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @03:35PM (#1135335) Journal
              Words don't mean intent. You need some evidence. What else do you have?
              • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @03:39PM (22 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @03:39PM (#1135336)

                And how the hell exactly are we to determine intent if words and actions don't, in your view, mean intent?

                • (Score: 4, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @04:03PM (21 children)

                  by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday April 09 2021, @04:03PM (#1135346) Journal

                  We have:

                  Video of them doing it.
                  Audio of them saying what they are doing.
                  A gallows they built to do it on.
                  An evidence locker full of the weapons they did it with.

                  Where is the EVIDEEEEEENNNNCE!!!!!!!

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @04:39PM (20 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @04:39PM (#1135360) Journal

                    A gallows they built to do it on.

                    You look at that gallows [breitbart.com]? Pretty half-assed. Maybe you could hang a human adult off of it, but you'd have to be careful that you didn't break it. And you might need to get a new rope.

                    An evidence locker full of the weapons they did it with.

                    Like what? This story [factcheck.org] indicates that in the process of breaking up the January 6 protest, they seized a small handful of weapons - one handgun and:

                    According to a database compiled by NPR, of the people charged with violent offenses, including assault on police officers, 15 were armed with deadly or dangerous weapons during the riot at the Capitol.

                    Eight others facing civil disorder or property destruction charges also were charged with possessing weapons, according to the database.

                    Those weapons included baseball bats, chemical sprays, a captured police officer’s riot shield, a crowbar, fire extinguishers and a metal flagpole.

                    Thomas Webster, a retired New York Police Department officer, was charged with attacking a Metropolitan Police Department officer with a metal flagpole. The federal complaint says he struck at the officer “with the flagpole numerous times.”

                    23 people with a good portion of them armed with improvised weapons. And only one firearm in the bunch. There's something wrong with the narrative. I get that there were all kinds of exciting weapons seized elsewhere in Washington DC that day, but those weapons weren't at the protest.

                    • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @04:49PM (18 children)

                      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday April 09 2021, @04:49PM (#1135367) Journal

                      Police seized alarming number of weapons on Capitol rioters, court documents show [thehill.com]

                      Five guns.
                      Eleven Molotov Cocktails.
                      One crossbow.
                      One stun gun.
                      Two pipe bombs.
                      Hundreds of rounds of ammo.
                      Napalm.
                      One assault rifle
                      One more handgun.
                      Plastic handcuffs.
                      Another tazer.
                      Another pistol.

                      And those were found on the very few people who were actually arrested on the day of the insurrection.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @05:23PM (17 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:23PM (#1135388) Journal
                        No, those weren't on protesters. For example:

                        One man, Lonnie Coffman, is facing multiple weapons charges after police say they found him in possession of five guns, eleven Molotov cocktails, a crossbow, smoke bombs and a stun gun.

                        Coffman was arrested only because police were investigating pipe bombs that were discovered near the Capitol at the Republican Party and Democratic Party headquarters and noticed one of the guns in his truck while securing the area.

                        First four (and probably five) items on your list were in a truck not on a protester. Stop wasting our time.

                        • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @05:35PM (16 children)

                          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday April 09 2021, @05:35PM (#1135393) Journal

                          “The defendant brought these weapons to the immediate vicinity of the U.S. Capitol Building, and traveled to the area with two firearms on his person. The amount of weapons suggests an intent to provide them to others, as no one person could reasonably use so many at once,” they added.

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @05:49PM (15 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:49PM (#1135400) Journal
                            Exactly. They weren't on a protester.
                            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @06:58PM (14 children)

                              by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @06:58PM (#1135429)

                              BLM were protesters, and some became rioters.

                              MAGA twits were protesters up until they invaded the captol, then they became insurrectionists.

                              Anyone that did not invade the capitol was just a protesters, very stupid protesters that accompanied obvious insurrectionists, but still just protesters. Those that entered the capitol should be punished according to their intentions, but moving with a crowd that is busy assaulting police and breaking through barriers is pretty damning.

                              Stop being a crybaby and accept that these MAGA twits will have to take responsibility for their actions. I'm guessing you were there, or some good friends of yours were there, and you don't think they are bad people so you're upset that they could get punished for participating in insurrection. The irony is thick and cuts off any remaining shreds of integrity you might have had.

                              • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @07:38PM (13 children)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @07:38PM (#1135461) Journal

                                BLM were protesters, and some became rioters.

                                MAGA twits were protesters up until they invaded the capitol, then they became insurrectionists.

                                Funny how people shoot their arguments in the foot.

                                but moving with a crowd that is busy assaulting police and breaking through barriers is pretty damning.

                                We would call that a riot. Right? Just like those rioters of the first sentence. I'm fine with calling a riot a riot. Insurrection is just hyperbole though.

                                Stop being a crybaby and accept that these MAGA twits will have to take responsibility for their actions.

                                Stop being an idiot. I've accepted from the beginning that these people will have to take responsibility for their actions. I don't accept this made up shit that people keep accusing them of. Where's the evidence for the claim that the people who "invaded" the Capitol were insurrectionists?

                                Or for that matter that "insurrectionist" even has a useful meaning to the word. When I searched for the definition of "insurrectionist" I was immediately redirected by several dictionaries to "insurrection". Most of the uses of insurrectionist were in fiction (such as here [halopedia.org]). The word has been kicking around for a while. Abraham Lincoln used to call [gutenberg.org] the rebels of the South "insurrectionists".

                                Figuratively speaking, it would be the building of an impassable wall along the line of separation—and yet not quite an impassable one, for under the guise of neutrality it would tie the hands of Union men and freely pass supplies from among them to the insurrectionists, which it could not do as an open enemy.

                                But where's the insurrection for the alleged insurrectionists here? You've just discussed protests and riots.

                                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @10:21PM

                                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @10:21PM (#1135526)

                                  Well, now we're down to: you're a fucking moron ;-)

                                • (Score: 3, Informative) by Magic Oddball on Friday April 09 2021, @11:17PM (11 children)

                                  by Magic Oddball (3847) on Friday April 09 2021, @11:17PM (#1135530) Journal

                                  We would call that a riot. Right? Just like those rioters of the first sentence. I'm fine with calling a riot a riot. Insurrection is just hyperbole though.

                                  According to the dictionary definitions (Merriam-Webster, Oxford, etc.) what happened fell under both terms: a "riot" is a violent, tumultuous protest; an "insurrection" is a violent uprising against a government or civil authority.

                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:45AM (10 children)

                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:45AM (#1135606) Journal
                                    So now we're comparing "violent, tumultuous protest" to "violent uprising". I think you know where I stand on that.
                                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @06:59AM (9 children)

                                      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @06:59AM (#1135631)

                                      They weren't just engaging in "violent, tumultuous protest", they were trying to stop the validation of a presidential election. That is insurrigency by any definition, and they should all hang by the neck until they get smarter. So fuck you, traitor khallow! We now know where you stand, and which side you are on, and we will not hesitate to shoot you on cite, or turn you into the FBI, or the DHS, or the NPS, which ever agency is more handy. Be afraid, be very afraid, of the Wrath of the American People, for what you are trying to justify.

                                      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:49PM (8 children)

                                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:49PM (#1135668) Journal

                                        They weren't just engaging in "violent, tumultuous protest", they were trying to stop the validation of a presidential election.

                                        And that's supposed to be relevant why? It's not like the validation wouldn't have happened anyway.

                                        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:32AM (7 children)

                                          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:32AM (#1135907)

                                          Do I understand correctly that you don't consider it insurrection unless it is successful?

                                          • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:25AM (6 children)

                                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:25AM (#1135948) Journal
                                            On that particular matter, if there is a reasonable expectation that they can do an insurrection. I gave an example some weeks ago of a crazy person who built a shrine on a mountain so that they could convince aliens to overthrow the US government. True story, I might add. I've actually been at the shrine in question.

                                            The intent is very concrete - it's there in concrete, amethyst crystals, and car springs. But no one would take a charge of insurrection seriously because the activity would not lead to insurrection.

                                            So I think a similar consideration would show the protest as lacking the necessary capacity to be an insurrection. Plus I doubt most of the people there were expecting to harm in some way the present government of the US. It's just a protest that disrupts some function (here the electoral college vote counting ceremony) of the federal government. The US has those fairly often and only the flakes lose it and start ranting about insurrections - like was done during the Floyd protests, I might add. The reaction to the January 6 protest is far from unique.
                                            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:24PM (5 children)

                                              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:24PM (#1136061)

                                              They killed a cop and injured many more, one woman was killed breaking through a barricaded window to get to congress peoe.

                                              You are the most willfully stupid person I've ever seen, going to great lengths to deny all the shitty things that would crush your personal view of conservative superiority. With some nice whataboutism thrown on top.

                                              • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Sunday April 11 2021, @10:22PM (4 children)

                                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11 2021, @10:22PM (#1136147) Journal

                                                They killed a cop and injured many more, one woman was killed breaking through a barricaded window to get to congress peoe.

                                                They didn't kill a cop. And riots have injured cops all the time, we have a number of examples from last year. Moving on, the woman killed (the only person killed by violence, I might add) was apparently unarmed.

                                                So let's try this again. How was this an insurrection instead of just a typical violent riot?

                                                • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 12 2021, @03:52PM (3 children)

                                                  by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 12 2021, @03:52PM (#1136469) Homepage
                                                  So you agree it was a violent riot?
                                                  Do you agree that violence took place within the seat of power?
                                                  Do you agree that it stopped the normal functioning of the government?
                                                  --
                                                  Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday April 12 2021, @04:15PM (2 children)

                                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @04:15PM (#1136487) Journal

                                                    So you agree it was a violent riot?

                                                    Absolutely yes.

                                                    Do you agree that violence took place within the seat of power?

                                                    A symbolic seat of power. I don't agree that is sufficient. A federal court house is also a seat of power, for example, and there have been riots in or near those.

                                                    Do you agree that it stopped the normal functioning of the government?

                                                    No, I don't agree with that.

                                                    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @05:54PM (1 child)

                                                      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @05:54PM (#1136556)

                                                      So you are a partisan hack who simy denies reality when it breaks your worldview? Thanks, this is an excellent comment that clearly shows how your brain operates. None of those were debatable questions, and any anxieties you have about a specific person's level of guilt must be dealt with in the context of their personal actions. You know, like we kept saying with the distinction between BLM protesters and BLM rioters.

                    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @10:50PM

                      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @10:50PM (#1136727) Journal

                      I clicked on the link to the photo of the gallows for the first time. That rope is probably sufficient for the job, but that gallows? Not so much. That top crossarm was just laid across the top, and a couple toenails driven in to hold it. Structurally unsound, and not up to the task. If an adult male were pushed off that gallows with that rope tied around his neck, he would likely hit the ground, then that 2/4 would hit him in the head. If that adult were anywhere healthy and active (that leaves out either Trump or Biden) and the 2x4 actually held, said adult would be dangling there until he got his feet back onto the edge of the platform. There's no drop to speak of, and he'll be hanging right up against the edge of the platform.

                      Most pre-teen kids could design a better gallows. If not most, then many.

              • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @03:53PM

                by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @03:53PM (#1135341) Journal

                I pointed out much more than words. Actions which back up those words.

                It's all available on video for the whole world to see.

                --
                People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
              • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @04:02PM (12 children)

                by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @04:02PM (#1135344) Journal

                I'll point out something else to avoid an endless chain of "I still cannot see it".

                It is not me who has to do the convincing. It is not you who has to be convinced.

                Hundreds of these traitors have already been arrested. Some are now being indited finally. It will play out in the courts. According to rules. Where the defendants get meaningful opportunity to defend themselves.

                Some videos I find most compelling are from local news stations all over the US. Including some of my own local stations -- which just adds credibility in my own mind that this news coverage is not a vast conspiracy. Local stories of people who were arrested, what they were charged with, what they did, and in many cases very violent video clips. Video showing people acting with a murderous rage. Doing unspeakable things to capitol police who were just there that day to do their job and protect the capitol building of our democracy and go home to their families.

                Now that some of these people have had time in jail to think about it, some of them have come to realize that they were duped. By a con man who cared nothing for them. But others still believe. For example: "I don't feel like I did anything wrong, but they locked me up." I'm sure Hitler and Jack the Ripper and Stalin felt they didn't do anything wrong either.

                --
                People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @04:20PM (11 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @04:20PM (#1135354) Journal

                  Some videos I find most compelling are from local news stations all over the US. Including some of my own local stations -- which just adds credibility in my own mind that this news coverage is not a vast conspiracy. Local stories of people who were arrested, what they were charged with, what they did, and in many cases very violent video clips. Video showing people acting with a murderous rage. Doing unspeakable things to capitol police who were just there that day to do their job and protect the capitol building of our democracy and go home to their families.

                  And yet, despite this alleged murderous rage, only one person died of violence, a protester. I think it telling that the only police officer death, Officer Sicknick was alleged to have died from being attacked by a fire extinguisher, but the truth [soylentnews.org] (that as far as I can tell, nobody was assaulted with a fire extinguisher and Officer Sicknick died from an existing medical condition which may have been aggravated by getting hit twice with pepper spray - he was assaulted just not with a fire extinguisher) didn't come out until his body was "lying in state". Seriously, I link to two news stories which must have been posted less than half an hour apart, one from Fox News with the fire extinguisher narrative, and the true(r) story from CNN.

                  Another telling feature is that as far as I can tell, few brought firearms to the protest, and certainly didn't use them during the protest. If someone was intent on kidnapping or killing the vice president, that does seem a peculiar oversight, right?

                  There's something wrong with the narrative.

                  Hundreds of these traitors have already been arrested. Some are now being indited finally. It will play out in the courts. According to rules. Where the defendants get meaningful opportunity to defend themselves.

                  So what? I'm not saying that prosecutable crimes didn't happen. I'm merely pointing out the obvious - that you have no evidence for such accusations as being a "traitor" or allegations that they had intent to kidnap or kill politicians.

                  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @04:42PM (6 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @04:42PM (#1135363)

                    Typical, strange how unwilling you are to face the reality of GOP criminality. Every person that entered the Capitol building are traitors. Like, by definition. Wait, according to US law we call them insurrectionists, and their intent was clearly stated by Trump himself.

                    These aren't debatable items dear khallow, and ignoring them and wiahing them away is not how reality operates. I thought I would get more enjoyment from the conservative meltdown inevitable after fascism was denied for 2020, but I'm finding it more sad than anything. How can you continue to be duped by the MAGA movement? How much Nazi symbolism, violent rhetoric, and lies will it take for you to see? A literal insurrection to stop a democratic election from moving forward and you still deny. So much wtf?

                    • (Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @05:03PM (1 child)

                      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday April 09 2021, @05:03PM (#1135375) Journal

                      What's interesting to me is how dumb they're willing to pretend to be to defend this stuff.

                      They can't figure out what per-capita means in a climate change thread but mention black crime and suddenly they're statistical geniuses.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @05:55PM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:55PM (#1135403) Journal

                        What's interesting to me is how dumb they're willing to pretend to be to defend this stuff.

                        Given your exchange with me, I have to wonder if you're one of those dumb Republicans. I doubt you could make a poorer showing, if you were a false flag, trying to lose your own argument.

                        They can't figure out what per-capita means in a climate change thread but mention black crime and suddenly they're statistical geniuses.

                        You're the one who brought up insurrection and kidnapping^W^W^W climate change and black crime in this journal about a libel lawsuit....

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @05:13PM (3 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:13PM (#1135382) Journal

                      Every person that entered the Capitol building are traitors. Like, by definition.

                      No, they aren't. By definition even. Words mean things.

                      One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.

                      It's not sufficient to just illegally enter the Capitol building.

                      These aren't debatable items dear khallow

                      The obvious rebuttal is that they aren't "debatable" merely because they are wrong.

                      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @05:23PM (2 children)

                        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @05:23PM (#1135387)

                        keep trying bucko, I've got no problem with you cementing yourself as irredeemably stupid

                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @05:25PM (1 child)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:25PM (#1135389) Journal
                          Sorry, the AC conflating criminal trespass in the Capitol with treason is the idiot.
                          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @06:12PM

                            by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @06:12PM (#1135411)

                            Sowwy u so twiggahd by weawwitty, po widdle babbyboo. Is ok babbyboo da twaitohs awent keeled anymo, dey just get timeout in a widdle woom.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @06:01PM (3 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @06:01PM (#1135406) Journal

                    that as far as I can tell, nobody was assaulted with a fire extinguisher

                    Someone was armed with a fire extinguisher [soylentnews.org]. No word from the story in question on whether that person or persons assaulted anyone with that fire extinguisher.

                    • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @08:32PM (2 children)

                      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday April 09 2021, @08:32PM (#1135484) Journal

                      No word from the story in question on whether that person or persons assaulted anyone with that fire extinguisher.

                      For everything khallow pretends to be ignorant of there's a goddamn video!

                      Video shows rioter throw fire extinguisher at police during Capitol attack [washingtonpost.com]

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @08:42PM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @08:42PM (#1135486) Journal
                        Oh look, one of the few pieces of evidence we'll see today! Sure, one chucked fire extinguisher definitely is assault, probably with a deadly weapon. Now, how does that show intent to kidnap or murder politicians? Remember I never disagreed that there was a lot of crime and rioting going on here.

                        Video showed a rioter, who was later identified as a retired firefighter, throw a fire extinguisher at police as the Capitol was being stormed on Jan. 6.

                        Sounds like they ID'ed the guy, arrested him, and he awaits justice. It's interesting how worked up you are over a protest/riot.

                      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12 2021, @12:31AM

                        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12 2021, @12:31AM (#1136195) Journal

                        Isn't he a piece of work? In a just world, every time he tried that, his entire digestive system would back up and he'd start vomiting his own shit.

                        --
                        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @04:08PM (7 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @04:08PM (#1135349)

                A dead cop?

                • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @04:26PM (5 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @04:26PM (#1135355) Journal
                  You do realize that the dead cop [wikipedia.org] died of a stroke, right?

                  Sicknick initially text-messaged his brother in the night after the storming of the Capitol, reporting that he had been twice attacked with pepper spray and was "in good shape". Shortly before 10 p.m., however, Sicknick collapsed after he had returned to his division office, within the Capitol. Sicknick was taken to a hospital in the D.C. area, and his condition apparently deteriorated. He suffered a stroke and a blood clot, and was surviving on a ventilator.[3][8] Premature reports of his death spread among law enforcement circles, which led to confusion among journalists and Sicknick's family until Capitol Police published a statement confirming that none of its officers had died.[3][a] Sicknick died around 9:30 p.m. on January 7.[3][8] Family members had not yet arrived at the hospital when he died.

                  He was assaulted twice with pepper spray and that may have contributed to his death. But that doesn't prove intent to "overthrow the government, or kidnap and murder state governors or congress members".

                  • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @04:41PM (4 children)

                    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday April 09 2021, @04:41PM (#1135361) Journal

                    More Than 140 Officers Injured In Capitol Riot, Chiefs Testify [wci360.com]

                    So I guess it's totally fine to assault police officers so long as they don't die from it.

                    “I have officers who were not issued helmets prior to the attack who have sustained brain injuries. One officer has two cracked ribs and two smashed spinal discs. One officer is going to lose his eye, and another was stabbed with a metal fence stake,” Papathanasiou said, according to NPR.

                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @04:46PM (3 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @04:46PM (#1135365) Journal

                      So I guess it's totally fine to assault police officers so long as they don't die from it.

                      I don't so guess. This isn't a dilemma where they're either guilty of trying to murder the vice president or innocent of every possible crime. I'm not defending protesters for attacking police officers or the various other crimes they actually did. I'm defending protesters from false accusations of attempted kidnapping and attempted murder.

                      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @04:53PM (2 children)

                        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @04:53PM (#1135371) Journal

                        We can only guess how badly this would have gone had the chambers of congress not been evacuated.

                        Remember zip tie guy? What do you think he had in mind?

                        --
                        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
                        • (Score: 1, Touché) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @05:20PM (1 child)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:20PM (#1135384) Journal

                          Remember zip tie guy? What do you think he had in mind?

                          Apparently, zip tie man [insider.com] picked up zip ties that some police officer had left behind, allegedly to keep them from falling into the wrong hands.

                          Eric Munchel, a pro-Trump rioter who stormed the Capitol building while holding plastic handcuffs, took the restraints from a table inside the Capitol building, prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday.

                          Munchel, who broke into the building with his mom, was labeled "zip-tie guy" after he was photographed barreling down the Senate chamber holding the restraints. His appearance raised questions about whether the insurrectionists who sought to stop Congress from counting Electoral College votes on January 6 also intended to take lawmakers hostage.

                          But according to the new filing, Munchel and his mother took the handcuffs from within the Capitol building — apparently to ensure the Capitol Police couldn't use them on the insurrectionists — rather than bring them in when they initially breached the building.

                          Further, Munchel was treated as a nonviolent protester and allowed to post bail by the judge. Something wrong with the narrative.

                          • (Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @06:37PM

                            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @06:37PM (#1135421) Journal

                            Further, Munchel was treated as a nonviolent protester and allowed to post bail by the judge.

                            Something the federal judge quickly changed. Whether it was a good thing or not . . .

                            Judge blocks release of alleged "zip tie guy" from Capitol riot [cbsnews.com]

                            Nashville — A federal judge on Sunday blocked the release of a Tennessee man authorities say carried flexible plastic handcuffs [cbsnews.com] during the riot at the U.S. Capitol. [cbsnews.com] U.S. District Judge Beryl A. Howell for the District of Columbia also ordered that he be brought to Washington for further proceedings.

                            Howell set aside an order issued Friday by a judge in Tennessee concerning the release of Eric Munchel, of Nashville, that cleared the way for Munchel's release as early as Monday. Howell stayed the lower court's order pending a review.

                            [ . . . . ] Federal prosecutors have argued that Munchel's offenses are serious enough to detain him pending trial to ensure the community's safety.

                            --
                            People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
                • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @04:51PM

                  by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @04:51PM (#1135368) Journal

                  There are also other cops who were injured. That counts.

                  --
                  People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:19PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:19PM (#1135445)

            lmao you're still talking about that gallows

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @10:12PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @10:12PM (#1135523)

            * Once inside they left written threats (eg, "justice is coming", etc)

            "Justice is coming" is only a threat if you are doing something wrong. What are you accusing politicians of that they need to fear justice?

            • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday April 12 2021, @06:05PM

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @06:05PM (#1136569) Journal

              Justice would be done through either the court system or the ballot box.

              These people are elected officials -- of both parties. Both Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi who they were threatening.

              If you don't like them, then vote them out.

              If you can't do that, then too bad. You don't get to overthrow the government because democracy didn't go your radical way.

              --
              People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 09 2021, @06:37PM (17 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 09 2021, @06:37PM (#1135420) Journal

        It was a riot. Let's see if the trial goes as badly as it did for the Chicago 7...

        In the meantime, while we are enjoying the daily soaps, China is building thousand of miles of high speed rail (Africa will have it before we do), expanding their economy, and most likely building a highly motivated and mechanized military to "protect the homeland" (secure the border, a much more dangerous one than the one on our little island). To see what we look like from the outside must be quite a circus, like real life Keystone Cops. Here, the tragedy unfolds.

        I'm a free speech advocate. Dominion can go to hell.

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:00PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:00PM (#1135431)

          It was insurrection, and libel is not covered by freedom of speech.

          Thanks for outing yourself, we've long suspected but now you've erased any doubt by throwing your cards right on to the table.

          • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 09 2021, @07:10PM (3 children)

            by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 09 2021, @07:10PM (#1135440) Journal

            It was a riot.

            "Libel" is a bullshit pretense for the powerful against criticism. "No law" still means no law, no matter what a corrupt judge will tell you. You will have to amend the constitution if you want libel laws on the books. Or you can continue the expedient route and let the judge legislate it.

            And you better start learning Chinese :-)

            --
            La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:38PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:38PM (#1135462)

              https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-1/freedom-of-expression-speech-and-press [cornell.edu]

              Thankfully clueless ideologues such as yourself are not the arbiters ruling on such important topics. Keep being a stupid shill, and thank you very much for finally breaking character. Indeed it would be good to learn Chinese, at least for anyone that cares about international markets or local tourism. Don't worry, we all know what you were trying to convey with that little quip :-D

              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday April 09 2021, @07:44PM (1 child)

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday April 09 2021, @07:44PM (#1135468) Journal

                :-) Doesn't get around those two little words, but I can't argue with a gun, so the issue is moot.

                谢谢你

                祝你今天过得愉快

                --
                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:27AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:27AM (#1135553)

                  You're welcome to leave any time and set up your anarcho-utopia. Let us know how it goes :-) International trade will be difficult for you if you can't even understand dictionary terms though, so better get self-sufficient.

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @07:17PM (7 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @07:17PM (#1135444) Journal

          (Africa will have it before we do)

          Japan and most of Europe have had it for decades. We're quite happy with our Amtrak money sink, we don't need no high speed rail here!

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @01:32AM (3 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday April 10 2021, @01:32AM (#1135576) Journal

          That AC is right. I've been re-reading this post of yours a few times, and it's starting to sink in how much you fucked up here.

          Well, we've always known you were a disingenuous little bunghole. It was only a matter of time before you slipped up I suppose. Thanks for making it so obvious even the dumbest of us can see (now WILL they see is another matter).

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @07:15PM (19 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @07:15PM (#1135442) Journal

        Uhh-huh maybe you have a point. However, at those fiery-but-mostly-peaceful protests, much worse was said, and much worse actually happened. You might say that government has spent the past year ENCOURAGING that sort of thing.

        Not that I agree with your view of the situation, but why was the D.C. riot any worse than a year of real violence in Portland?

        The ONLY difference I can see, is that the violence in Portland was aimed at people you don't like, while the (limited*) violence in D.C. was aimed at people you approve of.

        * Let us note that no bombs went off, no fires were started, and no deaths are directly attributed to any of the protesters, unlike Portland, and several other cities.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:43PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:43PM (#1135467)

          Thanks for that stupid screed, keep guzzling the rightwing propaganda, trumpco is laughing all the way to the bank and upping the ante to try and scare their supporters into giving them more money. Thankfully the judges all seem to have more brain cells than yourself, so keep going on about how traitors are patriots and trump is an awesome man of the people who truly cares about conservatives. Totally doesn't make you look stupid.

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12 2021, @12:33AM (16 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12 2021, @12:33AM (#1136197) Journal

          Good thing the law works this way too, right? So there's no such thing as attempted murder!

          Listen, dumbshit, just because your merry band of Q Qucks Klanners were incompetent, useless, stupid, and a pack of total, utter failures doesn't mean they weren't attempting insurrection. It just means that, like you, they were too weak and stupid and cucked, as you'd put it without a trace of irony, to pull it off. Stupid is as stupid does.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @01:21AM (15 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @01:21AM (#1136208) Journal

            Tell me more about this "attempted murder". In Portland, there was a murder - a real, actual activist shot and killed another activist from the other side. D.C. saw no murders. Not even that cop, it seems, who was initially claimed to have been clubbed to death with a fire extinguisher.

            Parenthetically, that video from the Capitol basement was pretty damned bad. I thought that cop was going to be either crushed or bludgeoned to death, but apparently he survived.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12 2021, @02:19AM (14 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12 2021, @02:19AM (#1136227) Journal

              Attempted insurrection : insurrection :: attempted murder : murder, you stupid shit. Pay attention when your betters are speaking to you; you may learn something. I doubt it, but still, you may learn something.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @02:57AM (13 children)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @02:57AM (#1136238) Journal

                ROFLMAO

                On the rare occasion that I meet a better, I am very respectful. You? It's preposterous that you can claim to have karma, then turn around and claim to be better than anyone. You don't even understand your most precious belief!

                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12 2021, @03:59AM (12 children)

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12 2021, @03:59AM (#1136246) Journal

                  You don't even understand the definitions of the words you're ridiculing. "Karma" is not some kind of moral force. It's basically a single Sanskrit word for the moral analogy to Newton's Third Law.

                  You make yourself look worse and worse every time you post, thus confirming what I've been saying. I'm not much better than average; you are that much worse than average. That's the crux of it all.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @04:47AM (11 children)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @04:47AM (#1136256) Journal

                    Karma kind of boils down to "what goes around, comes around" on a spiritual level. What you pass around is going to come back to bite you in the ass. And, as I suggest above, you don't even know what you pass around. Your attitude of moral superiority ain't winning you any points in this, or the after life. Which is ironic, since you don't have the morals of a tomcat.

                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12 2021, @06:47AM (10 children)

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12 2021, @06:47AM (#1136273) Journal

                      See, you're using all those words in an order that makes sense, but your central thesis is empty. Sorry Runaway, but while I know I'm not some shining paragon of virtue--that is, probably not much better than the median and/or the arithmetic mean of human morals--I am *definitely* better than the mode or most common level of human morals I see expressed in the world around me.

                      I'm guessing you don't have much of a statistical background, but the term for this uneven distribution is "right skew." This is what happens when the bell curve, rather than being a perfect Gaussian or normal distribution, is slanted. In this case, the bulk of the distribution is pushed to the left, leaving a low, long tail off the right edge.

                      It is not with any sort of pride or vanity I say this; it's an ongoing series of observations I've made for almost 3 decades now, ever since I was old enough to understand the concepts of morality. If this offends you, and I can see that it clearly does, you need to ask yourself why this is the case. I suspect some part of you is aware of this skew in the distribution of human morality, and is equally aware, if only on a subconscious level, that you've regressed to the mean and that regression to the mean in a right-skewed distribution is not a good thing. I may be giving you too much credit for self-awareness, of course...

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @07:17AM (9 children)

                        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @07:17AM (#1136281) Journal

                        [04/11/21 22:48:04] howdy
                        [04/11/21 22:48:59] oh gods
                        [04/11/21 22:49:06] it figured out irc

                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12 2021, @09:14AM (8 children)

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12 2021, @09:14AM (#1136298) Journal

                          What's the matter, Runaway? You don't like that I don't like some people and am not nice about it?

                          Boo stupid hoo, kiss my entire ass. Freeze peach. Don't like it, leave. What else is there to say on the subject? I'm good-aligned, not nice-aligned.

                          --
                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                          • (Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @03:14PM (7 children)

                            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @03:14PM (#1136439) Journal

                            Just noting that you are a contemptible little wench, who respects no one. You know the rules on the channel. At the same time you were expressing your contempt for Khallow, you were also telling Bytram to go fuck himself. You don't have to abide by any rules, at anytime, or anywhere.

                            All that karma, lol!

                            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @06:00PM (3 children)

                              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @06:00PM (#1136560)

                              Wait, suddenly rules matter? To mr. Disinfo himself? What about free speech? What about hating CoC? Only for IRC? What about insurrection over democratic elections? Suddenly rules don't matter because BLM RIOTERS!?? As if they didn't arrest and punish them?

                              Go fuck yourself you ignorant hillbilly. The best metaphor I can think of for you is Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes the comic. Whiny entitled brat that thinks he is the pinnacle of evolution. Never wrong, no need to learn, just shout and complain your way through life

                              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @07:16PM (2 children)

                                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @07:16PM (#1136606) Journal

                                FYI, IRC is run kinda like any business. #soylent is the "front office" so to speak. You come in through the office, introduce yourself, ask for technical help, get directions to various workshops, blah blah blah. There is a mandate that the front office be kept clean. For those who wish to be vulgar, or exercise other undesirable tendencies, other channels exist, and you can even create your own channel. Just keep it out of the front office.

                                I respect that, 'Zumi don't.

                                • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @08:36PM (1 child)

                                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @08:36PM (#1136649)

                                  None of this is true. It was just invented by Buzzard as an excuse to kick Azuma a couple weeks ago. Runaway has been being rude and obnoxious for much, much, longer than that.

                            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday April 13 2021, @12:43AM (2 children)

                              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday April 13 2021, @12:43AM (#1136776) Journal

                              Sorry-not-sorry I made you piss your Depends again, you overgrown toddler. Here's an idea: if I bother you that much, *stop interacting with me.*

                              This isn't hard. But you've said before you're not going to let any woman get the last word because "then she thinks she's won," riiiight?" Along with a lot of bitching and moaning about how your sisters were unfairly treated better than you by your mother, your ex-wife divorced you, etc etc etc.

                              You know, if you have serious problems relating to every woman you have any appreciable amount of social contact with, *maybe the problem isn't women; it's you.*

                              --
                              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday April 13 2021, @01:11AM (1 child)

                                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 13 2021, @01:11AM (#1136787) Journal

                                Here's an idea: if I bother you that much, *stop interacting with me.*

                                ROFLMAO

                                But you've said before you're not going to let any woman get the last word

                                That isn't precisely what I said, but it's close enough in your case.

                                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday April 13 2021, @01:29AM

                                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday April 13 2021, @01:29AM (#1136793) Journal

                                  The decision is yours. We know you're too weak and stupid though, so I'll just keep kicking your wrinkled, senile old ass up and down the aisle until you have the inevitable rage-induced stroke and we can all get on with our lives. ...well, except you obviously, but you know what I mean.

                                  --
                                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday April 12 2021, @06:11PM

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @06:11PM (#1136571) Journal

          while the (limited*) violence in D.C. was aimed at people you approve of.

          Half (or more!) of the people at the capitol were people I don't approve of. Who I would be opposed to in an election.

          But they were duly elected officials, whether I like them or not. Even if it was a Republican majority. They were doing their job as stated by the constitution and certifying the election.

          What I approve of is that these elected officials were doing their jobs. The mob outside intent on doing violence and possibly murder to these people are who I don't approve of. Thankfully they are all being rounded up. It takes a lot of time and manpower.

          What happened in Portland is sad. I can agree with what motivated these people, but I disagree with what they actually did. I don't approve of the violence in Portland. Just to be clear.

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @03:26PM (54 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @03:26PM (#1135330) Journal

      DeathMonkey pointed out the Jan 6 insurrection murder plans.

      I'll point out the other one that I raised. See my journal article: Feds thwart milita plot to kidnap Mich. Governor [soylentnews.org]

      Quick summary:

      I see two local stories [detroitnews.com] from local sources [clickondetroit.com] and I'm sure there are more.

      FBI says it thwarted plot to violently overthrow elected government and kidnap elected governor and hold a "trial" for treason. (gee, who sounds treasonous here?)

      Plot involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia (according to federal affidavit). (I'm sure it was a "well regulated" militia of crazy lunatics with guns who have to "take back our country and our rats!".)

      "Several members talked about murdering 'tyrants' or 'taking' a sitting governor," an FBI agent wrote in the affidavit.

      More than 12 people were arrested late Wednesday on state and federal charges.

      You can see for yourself the discussion that follows of how the founders expected the minority to kidnap and murder duly elected officials. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that if a governor was elected, it must have been by the majority?

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @04:03PM (49 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @04:03PM (#1135345) Journal
        There are two problems with this narrative. First, an unrelated case proves nothing about the January 6 protest. Second, who came up with the plan to kidnap the Michigan governor? This militia group or the FBI? The elephant in this room is the FBI record [soylentnews.org] of entrapment, encouraging dumb people to commit terrorist acts they wouldn't otherwise attempt.

        In the above link, a RollingStone article [rollingstone.com] describes an FBI sting where some Occupy Wall Street protesters were conned into going along on an imaginary bombing of a bridge. The attack plans and the fake explosives were provided by the FBI.

        So when I hear of a group that is thoroughly penetrated by the FBI (at least two plants in it, according to the affidavit [detroitnews.com]), I have to ask if that group would have done anything at all, if it weren't for the FBI egging them on to make quota.

        As I said in that thread, the FBI is supposed to catch criminals, not create criminals!
        • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday April 09 2021, @04:32PM (1 child)

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday April 09 2021, @04:32PM (#1135357) Journal

          You're the one who brought up insurrection and kidnapping in this journal about a libel lawsuit....

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @05:00PM (44 children)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:00PM (#1135372) Journal

          We can simply disagree about just how 'entrapped' these people were. Like I said earlier, what we think doesn't matter so much in the real world as what will happen in court.

          Normal, sane individuals would not follow someone to try to kidnap a state governor -- even if they didn't vote for her and don't like her politics. She was elected.

          If these people could so easily be led to do this, they are still quite dangerous individuals.

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @05:10PM (43 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:10PM (#1135380) Journal

            We can simply disagree about just how 'entrapped' these people were. Like I said earlier, what we think doesn't matter so much in the real world as what will happen in court.

            It will matter to you, if someone you love gets caught in a future FBI quota.

            Normal, sane individuals would not follow someone to try to kidnap a state governor -- even if they didn't vote for her and don't like her politics. She was elected.

            So they're not normal and sane? Who knew?

            • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @06:30PM (12 children)

              by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @06:30PM (#1135416) Journal

              It is inconceivable to me that anyone I know would even considder kidnapping a state governor, let alone actually setting such a plan into motion. Or storming the capitol.

              Even if, there were people going to storm the capitol, I would have the good sense to stay away. Any kind of violent action isn't going to change anything. Even if I don't like it.

              I'll point out that I was quite disappointed, to put it mildly, at the outcome of the election four years ago when Trump was elected by a minority of the population, but by the electoral college vote count. I didn't like it. But I didn't try to overthrow the government. Nobody I know tried or even considered trying to do such a thing.

              Nobody I knew had delusional fantasies that Hillary had won and the election had been stolen from her by some unprovable conspiracy. The outcome was what it was. I didn't like it. But I took it to heart that, some way, some how, there must have been a lot of people who wanted Trump, and they happened to be in the right states to get him elected.

              But it seems that in this election that Trump voters cannot accept the outcome of one of the most scrutinized elections in our history.

              --
              People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
              • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @06:48PM (9 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @06:48PM (#1135422) Journal

                It is inconceivable to me

                You do realize that's not saying much.

                I'll point out that I was quite disappointed, to put it mildly, at the outcome of the election four years ago when Trump was elected by a minority of the population, but by the electoral college vote count. I didn't like it. But I didn't try to overthrow the government. Nobody I know tried or even considered trying to do such a thing.

                Presently, nobody has tried to overthrow the government. Just pointing that out since that's how we got into this thread in the first place.

                Nobody I knew had delusional fantasies that Hillary had won and the election had been stolen from her by some unprovable conspiracy.

                Sounds like you got lucky then. And/or they just didn't tell you. There was plenty [twitter.com] of "Hillary was robbed" out there.

                But it seems that in this election that Trump voters cannot accept the outcome of one of the most scrutinized elections in our history.

                Which isn't saying much, even if it were actually true.

                • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @07:33PM (4 children)

                  by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @07:33PM (#1135458) Journal

                  Now that we're down to personal insults, there is no need for me to reply further with links to information.

                  --
                  People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @08:24PM (3 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @08:24PM (#1135480) Journal

                    Now that we're down to personal insults, there is no need for me to reply further with links to information.

                    Keep in mind, I'm looking for evidence not information. What evidence have you provided so far? You made a evidence-free insinuation in your journal:

                    Four years ago democracy didn't go the way the majority of the population wanted -- but nobody tried to overthrow the government, or kidnap and murder state governors or congress members. Even if the court doesn't uphold your zero-evidence based fantasies, doesn't mean the court system is not working properly.

                    A list [soylentnews.org] that happens to be irrelevant and exaggerated (chanting words, murderous intent that resulted in no murders, a gallows that you couldn't use practically for the purpose, rioting which is just rioting - using flags no less, and graffiti), but no actual attempts at kidnapping or murder. No evidence.

                    Empty assertions [soylentnews.org] that this is all on video. No evidence.

                    Asserting [soylentnews.org] that my opinion doesn't matter because it'll all get decided in court. That means incidentally, your opinion similarly wouldn't matter. So why did you give it? No evidence.

                    Insinuated a what if [soylentnews.org] scenario that didn't happen. And mentioned zip tie guy (who apparently wasn't even carrying his own zip ties). No evidence.

                    Federal judge reversed [soylentnews.org] zip tie man's bail because he allegedly threatened a reporter. Still no intent to kidnap politicians shown. No evidence.

                    Noting [soylentnews.org] cops were injured. Still no evidence.

                    The kidnapping plot [soylentnews.org] had heavy FBI involvement. So was it a militia plot or an FBI plot to kidnap the governor? No evidence.

                    Asserting personal feelings [soylentnews.org] that have no place as a standard of evidence. In particular, it's quite irrelevant what you can't conceive of. And of course, the about snippy remark about how you're going to stop posting "information". No evidence.

                    I think the fundamental problem here is that you're working from a really bad premise - GIGO. If there was an intent to kidnap or kill Pence or other politicians, then someone would have brought a lot more firepower to the conflict than baseball bats and pepper spray. As I noted, only one person was caught in the Capitol building with a firearm - which they never used. That's telling.

                    Similarly, the Michigan kidnapping affair has so many FBI fingerprints on it, how do we even know a crime of intent occurred rather than a staged bit of theater that caught up a bunch of gullible people? The FBI has a record of running these sorts of shows. There's no indication that they make us safer.

                    So I guess I'll finish with your same statement that started this whole mess:

                    Even if the court doesn't uphold your zero-evidence based fantasies, doesn't mean the court system is not working properly.

                    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @09:32PM (2 children)

                      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @09:32PM (#1135506) Journal

                      I get it. You don't believe there is any evidence.

                      We'll see how it plays out in court.

                      People believe the election was stolen.

                      People believe the earth is flat.

                      --
                      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:51AM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:51AM (#1135594) Journal

                        You don't believe there is any evidence.

                        Evidence distinguishes between hypotheses. How does entrapment by the FBI look different from honest criminal activity?

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:15AM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:15AM (#1135600) Journal
                        Sorry, I didn't see what you were replying to and thought it was just the Michigan thing. Yes, I believe there's no evidence because well, there isn't. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - not "it's all available on video" which turns out not be true.
                • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:45PM (3 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:45PM (#1135470)

                  Just because the idiots thought they were in the right and chanted "stop the steal" does not make it so. Committing crimes, even if done for supposedly good reasons, does not excuse those crimes.

                  "But sir, I thought he was a murderous bastard that killed ten thousand women and children!"

                  "But he wasn't. So to jail with you!"

                  Trying to discuss anything with you MAGAs is like dealing with spoiled children who just don't want to face the music.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @08:30PM (2 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @08:30PM (#1135483) Journal

                    Just because the idiots thought they were in the right and chanted "stop the steal" does not make it so.

                    Indeed. But that's part of the point. These crimes would be seen in a far more generous light if everyone here agreed with the premise that the election was rigged. They had an important responsibility to confirm the alleged wrongdoing before they stormed the capitol. The fact that most of those dozens of lawsuits were tossed in days, some by Trump appointees, should have been telling.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:30AM (1 child)

                      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:30AM (#1135554)

                      Gee ya think? However with zero evidence and the lie being told by a verified team of liars and criminals you don't get to hide behind good intentions. Good news, I doubt a single one of the insurrectionists will get the death penalty which is more than we can say for BLM protesters that were murdered by your proud bois.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:23AM

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:23AM (#1135601) Journal

                        However with zero evidence and the lie being told by a verified team of liars and criminals you don't get to hide behind good intentions.

                        The standard I think should be reasonable people. That didn't happen here, obviously.

                        Good news, I doubt a single one of the insurrectionists will get the death penalty which is more than we can say for BLM protesters that were murdered by your proud bois

                        Sounds like your proud bois will see justice too. I'm not seeing the point to your post. Why should the January 6 protesters get the death penalty? What are they supposed to have done to deserve that? Treason? Murder? Graffiti in the Capitol?

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @07:22PM (1 child)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @07:22PM (#1136609) Journal

                Any kind of violent action isn't going to change anything.

                For most of mankind's history, history was written with the sword, the spear, and the arrow. Since then, we've been writing with firearms of various calibers, bombs, missiles, rockets, and nuclear weapons.

                People need to think about that when they make claims that "violence never solves anything".

                • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday April 12 2021, @09:48PM

                  by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @09:48PM (#1136695) Journal

                  That is really a very sad but true point.

                  --
                  People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:05PM (29 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:05PM (#1135660) Journal

              You seem very...very...*very* concerned about the FBI and "secret police." Is there something you'd like to share with the class, Mr. Hallow? If we get our hands on the Gab and/or Parler leaks, will we find that you were going along with all this stupidity and the only reason you weren't right there with the mob on 6 January is you're too cowardly and weak to actually do anything more than run your mouth? :) Hmm...

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:58PM (28 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @12:58PM (#1135669) Journal

                You seem very...very...*very* concerned about the FBI and "secret police."

                Of course, I am. Sounds like you are too. After all, why are you trying to immigrate into Canada? Because certain scary people might come to power and use groups like the FBI and the "secret police" to destroy your life.

                If we get our hands on the Gab and/or Parler leaks, will we find that you were going along with all this stupidity and the only reason you weren't right there with the mob on 6 January is you're too cowardly and weak to actually do anything more than run your mouth?

                For starters, you run your mouth more than I do.

                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:06PM (25 children)

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:06PM (#1135676) Journal

                  So much deflection :) So much whataboutism. So much you're telling me without actually saying it outright.

                  As to why I'm going to Canada? Simple: I see the writing on the wall. It's economic collapse I fear more than any secret police though. The only thing I've done "wrong" is to be gay, and I reckon we're a little ways away from having Handmaiden's Tale-style "gender treason" just yet. No, we're more likely to turn into a cross between Idiocracy and Mad Max.

                  And yet, you seem to ass-ume that I'm scared of the same things you are. Why is this? It's very revealing. What will I find, Mr. Hallow, when I go through your Gab posts...?

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:22PM (24 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:22PM (#1135678) Journal

                    So much deflection :) So much whataboutism.

                    And so much projection.

                    So much you're telling me without actually saying it outright.

                    Doesn't sound like you're listening.

                    As to why I'm going to Canada? Simple: I see the writing on the wall. It's economic collapse I fear more than any secret police though.

                    I got fixes to that should you ever bother to listen. Economic collapse is unlikely in a healthy economy, but you need to want it first. Secret police can happen even in a good economy though.

                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:34PM (23 children)

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday April 10 2021, @02:34PM (#1135681) Journal

                      See, stuff like this is why I keep saying you're a psychopath: you *do* *not* *get* how to carry on a normal conversation with another human being, and even when that human being specifically points out how you're being not just creepy as hell but oversharing without meaning to, you just keeeeeep doing iiiiiiit.

                      Something is not wired right in that weird little skull of yours, Mr. Hallow. So what will I find when I go through the datadump, here...?

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                      • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:00PM (22 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:00PM (#1135689) Journal

                        See, stuff like this is why I keep saying you're a psychopath

                        How dare someone disagree? They must be a psychopath!

                        you *do* *not* *get* how to carry on a normal conversation with another human being, and even when that human being specifically points out how you're being not just creepy as hell but oversharing without meaning to, you just keeeeeep doing iiiiiiit.

                        This never was a normal conversation. In normal conversations, I don't have the other person making up fairy tales and diagnosing imaginary mental illnesses.

                        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday April 10 2021, @04:06PM (21 children)

                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday April 10 2021, @04:06PM (#1135706) Journal

                          Nice try, Mr. Hallow, but the collated output of years of experiences with you on this forum points to something being very, very wrong with your thinkmeats.

                          You give off the textual impression of "the crazy eyes." You know, someone who doesn't connect when they meet your gaze, has their eyes open a teensy bit too wide, and gives you the distinct feeling he (it's always a guy!) is casually thinking of how to go about vivisecting you without even meaning to but rather as a sort of reflex or default-mode behavior? That kind of impression.

                          --
                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                          • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @05:07PM (12 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @05:07PM (#1135730) Journal

                            Nice try, Mr. Hallow, but the collated output of years of experiences with you on this forum points to something being very, very wrong with your thinkmeats.

                            Years of experience you can never express except in the vaguest sense. Let us note the following exchange [soylentnews.org]:

                            [Azuma Hazuki:] You seem very...very...*very* concerned about the FBI and "secret police." Is there something you'd like to share with the class, Mr. Hallow? If we get our hands on the Gab and/or Parler leaks, will we find that you were going along with all this stupidity and the only reason you weren't right there with the mob on 6 January is you're too cowardly and weak to actually do anything more than run your mouth?

                            [khallow:] Of course, I am. Sounds like you are too. After all, why are you trying to immigrate into Canada? Because certain scary people might come to power and use groups like the FBI and the "secret police" to destroy your life.

                            [Azuma Hazuki:] So much deflection :) So much whataboutism. So much you're telling me without actually saying it outright.

                            Notice the pretense in this exchange. You pretend to not understand why police states and FBI abuses are bad, then claim with fake certainty that there is "whataboutism" in my reply. If you really had these years of experience, you wouldn't still have your antenna out sniffing for thoughtcrime.

                            It's just a ridiculous case of confirmation bias. Ridiculous because you've already completely ad hominemed me - evil, going to hell, conservative, whatever. At this point, what I believe shouldn't matter to you. But yet here you are sniffing, trying to find even more reasons to discount me. Well, maybe that indicates that somewhere in all that madness, there's a sane part that realizes what bullshit this all is - that inventing a bunch of fake reasons doesn't make me wrong.

                            I'm patient. Maybe we'll see next time what you really believe.

                            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:17AM (11 children)

                              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:17AM (#1135898) Journal

                              You seem to have some serious reading comprehension issues...

                              I know very well why secret police are a bad thing, because I do this thing called reading and this other thing called thinking.

                              The incongruity here, though, is that you yourself are a conservative, "law and order" type. Of necessity, both normal and "secret police" are the same way; you and the law-enforcement apparatus SHOULD be natural allies. Someone as traditionally conservative and law-and-order as you are has absolutely no reason to be this frightened of law enforcement, which leads me to believe that there is a disconnect between your public face and your private plans.

                              Specifically, you place an absolutely bizarre emphasis on not wanting "them" coming after you, personally, as things are here and now...but for what? This isn't just some generic opposition to "secret police." You very clearly believe you have something to hide, something recent and topical.

                              My own suspicion here is along the lines of "Hallow doesn't actually have a problem with injustice in the law-enforcement milieu, he's just scared that the status quo is slowly shifting away from what he thinks it should be and that the "sekrit polees omg!" are no longer implicitly on his side." Basically, that they're "hurting the wrong people," as a very revealing Trumpie-lady said...! :D

                              --
                              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:27AM (10 children)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:27AM (#1135949) Journal

                                You seem to have some serious reading comprehension issues...

                                I know very well why secret police are a bad thing, because I do this thing called reading and this other thing called thinking.

                                The incongruity here, though, is that you yourself are a conservative, "law and order" type. Of necessity, both normal and "secret police" are the same way; you and the law-enforcement apparatus SHOULD be natural allies. Someone as traditionally conservative and law-and-order as you are has absolutely no reason to be this frightened of law enforcement, which leads me to believe that there is a disconnect between your public face and your private plans.

                                Where in the world did you get the idea that I was a "law and order" type? It certainly wasn't from reading my stuff, much less thinking about it! And I'm not conservative. Just throwing that out since people get it wrong so much.

                                For example, my last journal, which you posted in several times, was about the Floyd killing which was an abuse of power by the police. If I were truly "law and order", Floyd definitely would fall on the unlawful and disorderly side. Yet I sided with him over the police.

                                Similarly, I'm not conservative. Admittedly in US politics there are two groups heaped into the conservative label: social conservative and fiscal conservatives. I've very liberal socially. And very liberal economically. So not seeing the point.

                                There's something wrong with the narrative.

                                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:52AM (9 children)

                                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 11 2021, @05:52AM (#1135951) Journal

                                  Don't conflate economic and political/social liberalism. Socially you're slightly right of center at best. Economically you're extreme far-right (laissez-faire). In a word, "libertarian."

                                  --
                                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 11 2021, @06:07AM

                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11 2021, @06:07AM (#1135956) Journal

                                    Don't conflate economic and political/social liberalism.

                                    Perhaps you should do that read and think thing you were talking about. I don't do that conflation.

                                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 11 2021, @06:12AM (7 children)

                                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11 2021, @06:12AM (#1135959) Journal

                                    Economically you're extreme far-right (laissez-faire). In a word, "libertarian."

                                    "Far right" economically here doesn't mean conservative, let us note. It doesn't even mean far right.

                                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12 2021, @12:28AM (6 children)

                                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12 2021, @12:28AM (#1136194) Journal

                                      You're doing the thing. The I said not to do. Conflating the social and economic axes. Economically speaking, far left is Communism, centrally-planned economics. Far right is extreme laissez-faire.

                                      --
                                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday April 12 2021, @03:58AM (4 children)

                                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @03:58AM (#1136245) Journal

                                        Conflating the social and economic axes.

                                        Not in the least. I don't even mention the social axis, much less conflate it.

                                        Economically speaking, far left is Communism, centrally-planned economics. Far right is extreme laissez-faire.

                                        Which makes little sense, since there's nothing far left or right about those things. For example, markets and centrally-planned economies have been around for thousands of years. Anywhere there's organized trade, there's a market. And most empires have some sort of centrally planned economy as part of the package, even if they lack the power or competence to do it successfully ("all roads lead to Rome" for example).

                                        • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12 2021, @06:37AM (3 children)

                                          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12 2021, @06:37AM (#1136272) Journal

                                          Are you learning-disabled? I'm not asking this to be rude or mean, I'm genuinely wondering if you have some sort of information processing disability. Very little of what people say seems to be understood by you.

                                          --
                                          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday April 12 2021, @07:39AM

                                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @07:39AM (#1136286) Journal

                                            Are you learning-disabled? I'm not asking this to be rude or mean, I'm genuinely wondering if you have some sort of information processing disability. Very little of what people say seems to be understood by you.

                                            Funny how you follow that up with [soylentnews.org]:

                                            You've clearly got a lot to answer for. I don't pretend to be perfect or even that much better than the average (median) human, morally speaking, but it's clear from your post history that you have some serious darkness in you.

                                            Funny how you claim over and over that you got me figured out and then you ask this. It indicate to me (and should indicate to you as well) that your claims are flawed. I'll note also that there have been at least three such diagnoses over the years: autism, psychopathy, and information processing disability. Let's move on.

                                            The problem here is that labels aren't truth. What you assert as far right or far left in economics isn't right or left. Maybe it made sense in revolutionary France or some time in the screwed up world of political correctness, but that time is gone. This is one reason I rarely use the terms "left" and "right" (usually in response to someone else who uses those terms).

                                            And most of the ideas have been around a while making identification as conservative or not rather weak. For example, the idea that a government should be held to fiscal constraints (such as living within a budget) is a newer idea than the idea that the government should be helping poor people. Yet it is traditionally considered more conservative than the latter.

                                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @06:02PM

                                            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @06:02PM (#1136564)

                                            Ooooh downmod brigade found azuma and hollow's little spat! Down with lefty amirite bois???

                                          • (Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 12 2021, @07:24PM

                                            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 12 2021, @07:24PM (#1136611) Journal

                                            You just don't get tired of the batfucking crazy shit.

                                      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday April 13 2021, @06:36AM

                                        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday April 13 2021, @06:36AM (#1136884) Homepage
                                        There's further economically right than just laissez-faire. There's promoting the corporate above what it would otherwise be. Things like legal protections, personhood, loopholes, bailouts, money-is-speech, etc.. Straight laissez-faire I'd put at about +0.6/+0.7 on the -1/+1 scale.
                                        --
                                        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @07:00PM (7 children)

                            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @07:00PM (#1135757)

                            Yeah, you are not giving off the impression of being the reasonable one in this exchange. In fact, you are exuding toxicity. Years of combative online discourse have taken their toll. You give off the textual impression of a "thousand yard stare," online PTSD if you will.

                            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @09:00PM (4 children)

                              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @09:00PM (#1135804) Journal

                              Years of combative online discourse have taken their toll.

                              "Combative online discourse" such as with you and Azuma, hmmm?

                              For those who might be on the fence, what in the world could I do on my side to improve the dialogue? Azuma has already completely written me off as an irredeemable psychopath. I can't improve that situation. Here, there's just some vague concern that I'm losing the newsroom [soylentnews.org].

                              I can't work with any of that.

                              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @01:05AM (1 child)

                                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @01:05AM (#1135860)

                                Irredeemable is the key word. Cancel culture demands that the cancelled disappear off the face of the planet. There is no path to redemption. Suicide is the preferred method of disappearance. In your case, your pseudonym just has to go away.

                                Azuma might not want you to disappear if she can continue to mock you relentlessly. No redemption either way.

                                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @08:41PM

                                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12 2021, @08:41PM (#1136655)

                                  Funny, I prefer the Allied method: Blockbusters and B-29's.

                              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 13 2021, @02:07AM (1 child)

                                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 13 2021, @02:07AM (#1136809)

                                No one can productively discuss anything with someone who willfully ignores data because they've pre-judged it to be bullshit. The fault is your own, the evidence you keep clamoring about has occurred so often that you should have them lurking in your memory somewhere.

                                No one is going to spend hours and hours building up a portfolio of your issues which you will casually toss aside with some vague bullshit. Good luck pal!

                                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday April 13 2021, @04:15PM

                                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 13 2021, @04:15PM (#1137047) Journal

                                  No one can productively discuss anything with someone who willfully ignores data because they've pre-judged it to be bullshit.

                                  So no evidence, huh?

                                  No one is going to spend hours and hours building up a portfolio of your issues which you will casually toss aside with some vague bullshit.

                                  Because that's happened before? Where?

                                  Sorry, rational, good faith debate is hard and time consuming.

                            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:20AM (1 child)

                              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:20AM (#1135899) Journal

                              Tone trolling again...how utterly boring. Focus on what someone is saying, not how they're saying it. Or, as is popular with your kind, "facts don't care about your feelings."

                              --
                              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @04:41AM

                                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @04:41AM (#1135932)

                                In your case, you invent the tone out of thin air, then troll. Straw trolling. No substance, very boring. Get tone trolled, bitch.

                • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @12:12AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11 2021, @12:12AM (#1135853)

                  To be fair, running your mouth less than Azuma is like being able to not win an Olympic marathon.

                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:31AM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 11 2021, @03:31AM (#1135906) Journal

                    Glad to know I'm bothering you, snowflake :) If it chaps your fat basement-dwelling Hot-Pocket-snarfing ass so much, *leave.* Freeze peach!

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @05:05PM (1 child)

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:05PM (#1135376) Journal

          an unrelated case proves nothing about the January 6 protest.

          It is not so unrelated IMO. The underlying issues are similar. Not liking the outcome of an election (US president vs Michigan gov). A violent plan to overthrow the duly elected majority. Then actions toward those ends.

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @07:21PM (3 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @07:21PM (#1135447) Journal

        Your Governor Gretchen murder plot falls apart when people realize that the leader of the plot was an FBI informant. How does that work, really?

        "Agent Smith, we need something really big and newsworthy. We want you to recruit a bunch of fools, and push some crazy narrative on them, so we can bust them for conspiracy and other crazy shit."

        "Sure boss, I have a bunch of idiots who don't like the governor. I'll spend some time hyping them up."

        (months later)

        "Agent Smith, your conspiracy sucks. None of your fools actually DID anything. Worse, none of them actually SAID much of anything. It was always you talking! You haven't given us anything to work with!"

        • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday April 09 2021, @07:36PM

          by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @07:36PM (#1135459) Journal

          What matters is what can be proven in court, and we will see that in due time.

          If someone tried to lure me into a plot to kidnap a state governor, I would have the good sense to stay away. But I already said that somewhere here. It would be irrelevant if it were an FBI insider or not who was the leader.

          --
          People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:53PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:53PM (#1135473)

          You are an ignorant moron, Runaway1956! Worried that your Plowed Boys cell is led by a Fed?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @07:04AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10 2021, @07:04AM (#1135632)

            They are, you know. You might be compromised. What did you agree to, Runaway? Insurrection? Rebellion? HIgh Crimes and Misdemeanors? Or just flat out treason and violation of your oath as a Semen?

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 09 2021, @05:47PM (5 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @05:47PM (#1135398) Journal
      To follow up on this, I find it remarkable how so much of the alleged evidence provided here, I already refuted [soylentnews.org] almost two months ago - the dead cop, zip tie man, the seized firearms, the chanting, murderous intent, etc.

      Stop losing your shit over stupidity and move on. Hopefully, the law breakers will get sentences appropriate to what they actually did, not this puffed up hysteria.
      • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 09 2021, @07:23PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday April 09 2021, @07:23PM (#1135449) Journal

        Refutations only count when they come from an official Progressive Fact Checker™ approved by the Progressive Party®.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @07:56PM (#1135475)

        My fluffy and puffed upped khallow, you are wrong, again. You are being an ass, and a fellow traveller of fascists and insurrectionists! Stop it, khallow, before your picture on social media places you in Portland.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @11:35PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 09 2021, @11:35PM (#1135534)

        To follow up on this, I find it remarkable how so much of the alleged evidence provided here, I already refuted [soylentnews.org] almost two months ago - the dead cop, zip tie man, the seized firearms, the chanting, murderous intent, etc.

        Ummmm, yeah. Declaring yourself the "winner" in the court of public opinion, are you? By whose estimation? Yours? That does seem a bit...presumptuous, although I can't really say I'm surprised. Is anybody surprised by this? Anybody?

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:42AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday April 10 2021, @03:42AM (#1135604) Journal

          Declaring yourself the "winner" in the court of public opinion, are you?

          No, look at my journal. Everything on that list which was brought up in the last few days was brought out months ago and mentioned by me - and discussed by some of the people who pulled out the same arguments this time. And an amazing amount of it turned out ridiculously wrong. The dead cop, Officer Sicknick was alleged for weeks to have died by being bludgeoned by a fire extinguisher. The real story, that he died from a stroke, didn't come out till he was lying at state, wrung out of all propaganda value. Zip tie guy didn't bring his own zip ties nor did he use what he had. The seized firearms with the sole exception of a pistol came from a truck not confiscated off a protester in the Capitol. Chanting is chanting. Nobody dies from mean words - so you need more than that to show intent to kidnap or murder. And the alleged murderous intent supposedly apparent in video didn't result in anyone being murdered. The gallows turned out to be a shoddy prop.

          So the assertions that there were a bunch of people at the January 6 protest with intent to kidnap or murder some politicians is based on vapor. There's no support for it. The protesters didn't come armed with decent firepower to take on hundreds of armed police officers. It is just another violent protest in a year of violent protests.

          It's not the court of public opinion that you should worry about. It's reality.

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by Anti-aristarchus on Saturday April 10 2021, @07:07AM

          by Anti-aristarchus (14390) on Saturday April 10 2021, @07:07AM (#1135633) Journal

          khallow is nothing if not presumptuous. Argues in BadnFaith! Has Obvious Rebuttals for almost anything. And, he is obviously on the side of the Fascists attempting to take over America. Kind of a Nazi. Face-punching is authorized.

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