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posted by martyb on Saturday April 10, @02:11PM   Printer-friendly
from the people-have-spoken dept.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/04/the-amazon-union-drive-in-alabama-appears-headed-for-defeat/

Update: A majority of workers have voted not to form a union at the Amazon Fulfillment Center in Bessemer, Alabama. The result of the NLRB's initial vote count was 1,798 votes against the union and 738 in favor. Hundreds of additional ballots were not counted because their authenticity was disputed. But the "no" side already has a majority of the 3,215 votes cast, making the issue moot.

Original story, April 8: A closely watched effort to unionize an Amazon fulfillment center in Bessemer, Alabama appears to be headed for defeat. With about half the votes counted, 1,100 workers have voted against forming a union, while only 463 voted in favor.

The National Labor Relations Board is counting the 3,215 votes that were cast by workers at the Bessemer facility. The union needs to win at least half the votes in order to become the official representative of the roughly 6,000 workers at the Bessemer facility. Counting has ended for the evening and is scheduled to resume at 8:30 am Central Time on Friday.

Also at The Washington Post, c|net, and Al Jazeera.


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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fakefuck39 on Saturday April 10, @05:06PM (33 children)

    by fakefuck39 (6620) on Saturday April 10, @05:06PM (#1135729)

    > if people actually voted their conscience
    lol, have you ever held any kind of a job, seriously. what do job compensation and benefits have to do with conscience? employment negotiations are about getting the best deal for your employment.

    > if there was...*interference...*
    good thing you put that in *stars* - because the only interference that can exist is someone preventing you from casting a vote, and there is no evidence of that. putting up ads, threatening to fire an employee for an action, or even lying, is not interference. even in the case of Russia helping Trump with lying spambot farms - that is not interference. people are allowed to lie. it is up to the voter to believe it or not.

    > we upped stakes and hired elsewhere
    correct. there is a large number of unskilled workers who would love to take amazon's decent benefit package and their $15/hour *minimum* pay, and if amazon doesn't want to deal with unions, they can just get replacements for literally all those workers, train them, and be back on their feet. A process likely to take under a week, during which they'll just ship things from a different warehouse.

    The real reason they chose to not form a union is because they didn't want a union, period. It's because whatever issues they have with management now, they don't want more of by electing to be under yet another level of incompetent and corrupt management - something unions are famous for.

    My buddy was an electrician in Chicago. Buildings were coming up, it was a great trade to get into for him. And for everyone else. So we got a lot of electricians. Then building projects slowed down, and you had too many electricians. So instead of doing contract projects (if you do one, you get dumped from job rotation by the union), he sat on his ass, drank, and partied. He sat there collecting unemployment for 3 years - something the union bullied the city to spend our tax dollars on. Instead of getting a different job he was qualified to do (had a computer graphics degree), he sat on his ass, because a different job would... Bump him from the wait list.

    Hundreds of dollars of his unemployment checks went to pay the union, the purpose of which was to keep extending his unemployment checks beyond the 6 month limit, and to prevent him from getting a different job. Which he did end up doing after 3 years, when he gave up on the union job queue.

    Unions were a great idea. They very quickly turned to shit. Here's an idea - the people who Elected to not be in the union, did it because whatever they're unhappy with, the union would fix some of those things, then introduce many more new things to be unhappy with. It sounds like you support unions though. Enjoy your police union.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10, @07:48PM (13 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10, @07:48PM (#1135770)

    (had a computer graphics degree),

    Those “degrees” have no value. Adult education programs shorn them out in bulk, and the “graduates” have wasted money on a worthless certificate. It’s a scam that the government often subsidizes to keep unemployed people from showing up as unemployed on the official statistics, same as the “learn to be a webmasters assistant “ (whatever the fuck that is) or “learn to code in 3 months.

    So a year later they’re still unemployed, but because officially they’ve changed trades, they are only qualified for regular unemployment benefits, which run out so they end up on state welfare roles. A different budget from a different agency, so somebody else’s problem.

    Look for them scrounging on fiver for scraps.

    • (Score: 2, Disagree) by fakefuck39 on Saturday April 10, @07:58PM (12 children)

      by fakefuck39 (6620) on Saturday April 10, @07:58PM (#1135773)

      literally every movie made and every ad and publication and book is made by someone w a cg degree. you are an idiot. and my friend got his cg degree 3 years after finishing highschool, so what are you even on about? a college degree is not a certificate. yeah, i know, you and your peers have "certificates." you live in a shitty blue collars world. you're the ant my peers step on. enjoy your groceries from walmart and your truck.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10, @10:03PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 10, @10:03PM (#1135823)

        If you believe a tradesman who sat on unemployment had a university degree you’re the idiot. And if you think all those book publishers and magazines are paying more than gig economy rates you’re doubly an idiot.

        Print graphics arts is dying. Same as print. Which is why high schools are offering certificates in print graphics - they don’t give a shit if you can earn a living - they’re just there to make money off you from their continuing education certificate mills while helping people extend their unemployment benefits. Same as all those “offices automation” certification programs that just teach you Working d.

        You can tell when the economy is bad for significant portions of the population when the TV ads for such scams move from 1 AM to daytime TV.

        • (Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Saturday April 10, @10:31PM (1 child)

          by fakefuck39 (6620) on Saturday April 10, @10:31PM (#1135833)

          I went to college with him for the first year before I switched majors, and went to his graduation. Starting salaries for CG are a lot less, and if you already know almost enough to become an electrician, it's a valid choice. Literally everything you visually see is made by someone w/ a CG degree, print or any media. Even the web UI you use on most websites. CG is not "print media" lol. Everything you see with your eyes that's not naturally made, is made on a computer is CG - yes, even the dashboard design on your car. And the logo of the car maker.

          >You can tell when the economy is bad for significant portions of the population when the TV ads for such scams move from 1 AM to daytime TV.

          and the ad for that scam was made by a CG artist. Congratulations, you are literally dumber than a doorknob. Those ads are for CG certificate programs at non-accredited "universities" like Trump-U. That's not a college degree. That's what you and your peers have and are angry at. Enjoy your shitty world, angry redneck ant. The rest of us, we qualify for real colleges.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @02:17PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @02:17PM (#1136017)
            First, there’s a BIG difference” between CG (computer graphics) and CGI (computer generated graphics). One is “oh I can use Photoshop”, the other is a lot harder.

            Second, when you write “ Even the web UI you use on most websites. CG is not "print media" - you really betray your ignorant of all those Photoshop monkeys making mock-ups of web site interfaces that are SO fücked up. Because they replaced functionality with pretty, forgetting that form should follow function. Otherwise we’d all be eating with sporks “because it’s different, and in theory should be more efficient.”

            Seriously, there’s as big a difference between a shit CG and CGI as there is between a course in office information that teaches Microsoft Word and real office automation.

            UZ “experts” need to die.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @04:30AM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @04:30AM (#1135929)

        You truly say the stupidest shit. "literally every movie made" is made by someone with a cg degree? Computer graphics in movies weren't even around until the 70's, and then only used sparingly until the 90's. Ditto for books which predate computers by centuries. You are completely fucking retarded.

        • (Score: 2, Flamebait) by fakefuck39 on Sunday April 11, @05:12AM (4 children)

          by fakefuck39 (6620) on Sunday April 11, @05:12AM (#1135943)

          saying stupid shit would be reading a statement for the present tense, pretending it's past tense, like "literally every movie ever made" - and then attacking that strawman for the whole internet to see. but, talking about past tense, those computer graphics artists were just graphics artists before, getting that degree from that same famous Chicago Art Institute.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @05:25AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @05:25AM (#1135947)

            "Made" is already past tense. The dog made a mess. Titantic was made in the 1990's. I made you look stupid again. But then again you've shown repeatedly that your English isn't very good, not to mention that you aren't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.

            • (Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Sunday April 11, @06:08PM (2 children)

              by fakefuck39 (6620) on Sunday April 11, @06:08PM (#1136071)

              me: The dog made a mess
              you: how do you know, were you there in 1850 when the dog made a mess?

              when someone says "movies are made using CG" they mean made now, in recent times. they're not talking about metropolis made in 1920. you ESL immigrant retard. learn a language before using it. when we say "cars are made with airbags" and you point out that the ford model 1, available only in black, did not have airbags, you're screaming to the internet that you are a retarded clown.

              English. Learn it before living in this country.

              • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @07:21PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @07:21PM (#1136103)

                Yes, literally every car was made with airbags, like how literally every movie was made using CG. I like how you try to lecture someone on English when you can't properly use capitalization, punctuation, or can barely form a coherent sentence. You're truly a special kind of stupid, someone who is so fucking stupid they don't even realize just how fucking stupid they really are.

                • (Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Monday April 12, @02:32AM

                  by fakefuck39 (6620) on Monday April 12, @02:32AM (#1136232)

                  as someone who knows english, i realize that grammar has different levels, and what's appropriate for a phd dissertation or a work email, does not have the same rules as typing on my phone on a random forum with my thumb, as i'm taking a shit. when someone tells you "literally every movie made" and you assume it to mean "every movie ever made" - you do not know english - either due to being an immigrant, or a dumb redneck. yes, literally every single movie made, but not ever made, is made using computer graphics. even one with zero special effects. because to even put shots together into a movie, you'd use something like adobe premiere. on a computer. you absolute doorknob. there is zero things that are visual made today, that do not use computer graphics. even a silk-screen sign you order from a sign shop, that some redneck made by hand, starts on a computer.

      • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday April 11, @09:00PM (2 children)

        by Tork (3914) on Sunday April 11, @09:00PM (#1136128)

        literally every movie made and every ad and publication and book is made by someone w a cg degree.

        No part of this sentence is true.

        --
        Slashdolt Logic: "23 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
        • (Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Monday April 12, @02:18AM (1 child)

          by fakefuck39 (6620) on Monday April 12, @02:18AM (#1136226)

          no, now you.

          we make graphics on computers now these days boomer. the area of study to make graphics on computers is called computer graphics. to make a simple book with only text both inside and on the cover, software like quark and indesign is used. the area of study which teaches you those is called computer graphics.

          but go on about how leading is putting pieces of lead between the lines on your printing press. here in the real world, it's a slider you move, set to 120% by default.

          retard.

          • (Score: 2) by Tork on Monday April 12, @02:33AM

            by Tork (3914) on Monday April 12, @02:33AM (#1136233)
            FYI: You left out the operative bit... 'degree'. 🙄 You should type stuff into search engines before spouting off.
            --
            Slashdolt Logic: "23 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11, @02:57AM (16 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 11, @02:57AM (#1135891) Journal

    There are so many fallacies in here I don't even know where to begin.

    I suppose that "enjoy your police union" one is a good starting point. The fallacy here is "one type of union seems to have done us more harm than good, ergo, all unions are bad." This neglects the problems with the culture of policing in the US, which taint the entire enterprise; is it any surprise even their unions become full of self-serving thugs when things like "qualified immunity" are on the table to begin with? Or, put another way, the police union is a subset of "people who want to be, and are, cops." Think about the kind of people who fall into "people who want to be, and are, cops." The problem was there long before any police union and will continue with or without them.

    Fallacy two: anecdote is not data. This becomes less of a problem in bulk, but you've provided what is essentially a social (soft) sciences study with a population n = 1 and no defined endpoint.

    Fallacy three: the conflation of management with unions ("another later of incompetent and corrupt management"). What you fail to attend to is the fact that a functioning union is *at odds with* management. While the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, the enemy of your enemy may very well be doing useful things that benefit you when dealing with the enemy (which one I mean here is left as an exercise to the reader!).

    For my part, this job at a rather large hospital in WNY is the first time I've had a union and I absolutely love it. Yes, it means some of the workers here coast, and I notice explicitly that I do more and better work than most of them despite being here not even 6 months. But that is a price I am willing to pay for having excellent and fairly cheap insurance backed by said union, documented and extended grievance and discipline processes (no one gets fired for losing a popularity contest), and in general just knowing management can't just do whatever the hell they want.

    This security allows me to give my all for the job and the patients. The freedom from the most basic existential worries about keeping one's job or not having healthcare is amazing. Safe from this kind of needless, borderline-Lovecraftian injustice, I can pour every last erg of my effort into becoming the best technician I can be. This benefits patients, the hospital, the union itself, and the development and trajectory of my soul personally. *This is a union functioning as intended.*

    But sure, go ahead and tell yourself unions are all evil. You're doing the labor-relations equivalent of the grandsons and great-grandsons of WWII vets in the South who fly the stars and bars.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @03:15AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @03:15AM (#1135897)

      Not self-serving thugs, but thugs for hire. Otherwise, TL;DR

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Sunday April 11, @04:23AM (14 children)

      by fakefuck39 (6620) on Sunday April 11, @04:23AM (#1135927)

      >Fallacy two: anecdote is not data

      correct. the data is the people who voted against the union. when you see this data, you apparently immediately assume "voter interference," not "oh look, these people don't want a union. you know, like my singular anecdote of "the electricians in Chicago" which also includes several thousand people.

      honestly, I didn't read the rest of your dumb rant, whatever that was. you're literally as dumb as the stop the steal retards, just on the other side of the spectrum. you are the reason people say both sides are the same. because the sides have nothing to do with being a retard. you people (you, the nazi retards, the antimask retards, the blm retards) are the group - the group of retards. within your group, you have different opinions on some things. kinda like russia and ukraine. two monkeys fighting about how different you are. to me, someone who is human, you're still a bunch of monkeys.

      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 11, @04:48AM (13 children)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 11, @04:48AM (#1135935) Journal

        You didn't read it because you have a willful reading comprehension issue. You've lived a fast life and sucked all the joy out of it; with nothing left but your own self-delusion and sense of superiority, your tiny, hollow, solipsistic worldview cannot *afford* to consider data that might show you to be wrong in even the smallest respect.

        The "data" say only what they say; I am asking about what is *is* that they say. Yes, there was a majority vote against unionizing: my question is, WHY? That is, what motivated this vote, can we be certain it was truly uncoerced, etc.?

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 11, @06:43AM (4 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11, @06:43AM (#1135964) Journal
          I have to say that we have quite the slap fight in this discussion. There are many who have broken out the supple leather gloves and are delivering profound stings to the face and mighty whiffs that part the hair.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @02:25PM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @02:25PM (#1136018)
            People who have never enjoyed the benefits of a union job are really not in a position to say unions are bad. A union for coders would go a long way towards eliminating crunch and forcing management to take responsibility for their screwups.
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 11, @10:09PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 11, @10:09PM (#1136144) Journal

              People who have never enjoyed the benefits of a union job are really not in a position to say unions are bad.

              Unless, of course, they have enjoyed the costs of a union job. That seems fairly common.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @01:27PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @01:27PM (#1136357)

              Oh boy, this old chestnut again. "You can't learn from the experience of others! Your tiny widdle brain can't do that! You have to try it first! Put on the union hat, you'll love it! Promise!"

              Quite aside from the fact that many coders weren't in that position all their lives, and have been in union positions, many more coders have been in union shops where their position just didn't happen to have been unionised. But you don't seem to think that that counts.

              If it's so great, make your pitch to Microsoft or wherever, see how that goes.

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12, @12:15AM

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12, @12:15AM (#1136184) Journal

            No "we" don't. Your contribution to this fight is mostly the textual equivalent of belches and farts. Only not as amusing.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Sunday April 11, @06:10PM (3 children)

          by fakefuck39 (6620) on Sunday April 11, @06:10PM (#1136072)

          nah, I didn't read it because you're a moron here for my entertainment, and the one line that jumped out at me from your wall of retard-text was enough for me to respond to, to laugh at you. whatever other retard-information you provided is for the birds, and useless to me, for the purpose which you serve for me by typing things here. on a related note, the first few words of the last post is also all I read. but you keep typing.

          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12, @12:19AM (2 children)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12, @12:19AM (#1136187) Journal

            Sure sure, everyone but you's a moron, placed here by the great Goddess solely for your entertainment. The entire world's disposable except you, we get it. You're the alpha-male, the top dog, the mutant offspring of Chuck Norris, Hugh Hefner, and Albert Einstein, and your power level's over 9000. You've got it alllllllll figured out. Congratulations, you won the game. *paper-squeaker noise*

            ...damn, ow. Warn me next time before you post something like that so I can do some warm-ups on the ol' eye-roller muscles.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 0, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Monday April 12, @02:23AM (1 child)

              by fakefuck39 (6620) on Monday April 12, @02:23AM (#1136228)

              You are a moron. Your purpose on this site, for me, is solely for my entertainment. I have no other use for morons besides them making me entertained. For you, this site is part of "entire world" as you come here to "socialize" with your keyboard. For me, I've come to a football game to play football. You can complain all you want that football players are unbalanced adults because they attack a guy simply for having a ball, and that they should get psych treatment for whatever is making them do that. For the normal people, we're here to play football, and you're the moron who decided to have a romantic picnic in the middle of a football field, and then complain about how the people playing on that field are acting as unbalanced adults. You are retarded, so it's funny for us normals. Yes, I do have all that figured out. You, in your life, seem to have the internet confused with the physical world. Because of your stupidity, you are and will always be confused, and will always be the clown.

              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday April 12, @03:57AM

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday April 12, @03:57AM (#1136244) Journal

                I didn't read that but it's pretty obvious it's more of the same. So have another -1 Troll, and remember, public masturbation is a crime.

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @04:21PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @04:21PM (#1136489)

          My reading skills are better than your self-editing skills. It's hard to tell if you hate yourself more than you do any prospective reader.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:02PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:02PM (#1136513)

            It's much easier to catch errors in other people's code than to write perfect code.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:11PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:11PM (#1136518)

              A good lesson. Instead of bursting in like Crazy Uncle Mame, maybe somebody should go have a cup of coffee, and then do a good self-review (AKA sanity check).

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:44PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 12, @05:44PM (#1136548)

          Ping.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @05:54PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 11, @05:54PM (#1136068)

    " it is up to the voter to believe it or not."

    Because some arbitrary arbitrator is supposed to be the arbiter of truth. How about this, I appoint myself to be the arbiter of truth. What could possibly go wrong?

    Well, at least most anyone would be better than AOC (then again who am I kidding, most people are clueless). Most of the time when she talks she has absolutely no clue what she is talking about, it's hilarious watching her talking about stuff she has no clue about.

    • (Score: 2) by fakefuck39 on Sunday April 11, @06:23PM

      by fakefuck39 (6620) on Sunday April 11, @06:23PM (#1136080)

      no moron, because anyone is free to say any bullshit lies they want, and them saying it is not election interference, it's free speech. if you choose your vote to be changed by some rando redneck or russian bot spouting garbage in the internet, and believe it, and don't bother to check it, that's not interference. that's a retard voting. retards are allowed to vote.

      >some arbitrary arbitrator is supposed to be the arbiter of truth
      the arbiter of truth is the voter. nothing arbitrary about that. it's not the job of the world to present vetted, balanced, and honest information to you. it's your job to not blindly believe random shit you hear and let that random shit make up your mind for you. if you don't do that, that's fine too - you have a right to make up your mind whichever way you want, for any reason you want. but don't blame you being a moron sheep on someone. it's not interference. it's you - the retard.