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posted by
LaminatorX
on Monday October 20 2014, @07:30AM
from the ought-to-be-enough-for-anybody dept.
from the ought-to-be-enough-for-anybody dept.
In a recent engadget article, Jon Fingas points out the following:
If you're planning to snag the new Mac mini and load it up with aftermarket memory, you may want to reconsider your strategy. Macminicolo owner Brian Stucki (among others) has discovered that the RAM in Apple's latest tiny desktop isn't upgradable, much as you'd expect with the company's laptops and the 21-inch iMac.
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You Can't Upgrade the New Mac Mini's RAM
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innovate, v.:
To annoy people.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Sir Finkus on Monday October 20 2014, @09:21AM
Not a lot, although the mac pros do use ECC ram, if you consider that "special".
Soldered ram is somewhat justifiable for a Laptop I think, because there are tradeoffs that need to be made as to allow user replaceable RAM. I don't see why this needs to be the case for a "desktop" pc. The article doesn't mention if the new Mac mini is smaller than the old one, so that might be a factor as well.
Join our Folding@Home team! [stanford.edu]
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday October 20 2014, @11:44AM
The article doesn't mention if the new Mac mini is smaller than the old one
I've read some discussion on that topic that the fetishization of thinness seems to be spreading from phones, where it doesn't matter other than making it a little awkward to hold and a technical PITA, to desktop computers where its just irrelevant. Like the fad some years back of cutting windows in gaming PCs "for the cooling" and then sticking a plastic window and blue LEDs in there "to make it cool".
(Score: 0) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday October 20 2014, @01:25PM
Macs have been by homosexuals, for homosexuals, ever since the PPC days.
Nothing advertises the want of a large Black dick in the ass more than using a Mac in public.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 20 2014, @02:07PM
Classy comment
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday October 20 2014, @02:43PM
Well, if my wife is secretly bi I'm OK as long as I get to watch, and its her hot friends not her ... not so hot friends. Aside from that, my point was you could build the next mac mini into a giant plastic dog turd and no one will realistically notice or care, seeing as my wife's mac mini is buried on her desk behind the monitor or something where no one sees it. I think her old one looked like a single slice silver toaster or a really small waffle maker, and her new one looks like a piece of wonderbread with the crusts cut off and an oreo on top.
I have a good analogy, lets make SSDs that are so stylish and hot and sexy and super thin but it doesn't matter because almost nobody gazes longingly at SSDs all day long anyway.
Its like trying to turn a toothbrush into a conspicuous consumption item, its just dumb.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday October 20 2014, @02:57PM
Not to mention if you give folks the choice between "more power at a better price" and "looks pretty but weak and expensive"? Well with the notable exception of the hardcore Appleites the average person will ALWAYS pick the former. And why wouldn't they? as you note its not like they are gonna spend their days gazing lovingly at this teeny tiny box, they are gonna be too busy actually USING the thing to care about how "purty" you can make the thing. I found this out when I first started building HTPCs, folks would rather have a larger case with better hardware than pay a premium for having an itty bitty NUC style thing with severe hardware limitations.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday October 20 2014, @03:15PM
You are on the right track but appliances like a mythtv frontend have more a carnival ride "you must be this tall ->" sign and once you're there all good. I remember the crap I went thru more than a decade ago to get a mythtv FE up and running, and then there was an era I could use a castoff desktop (still have one in the basement lab/workshop, the thing just won't die) and my living room has one of those zotac boxes thats smaller than a cablemodem and it just works.
Once you can display live TV, later live HDTV, there's no point in making it any faster. I'm doing vdpau acceleration in the video card and it works at like 20% CPU and I'm sure a new box could pull that down to 5% but I just don't care until the hardware breaks.
On the other hand an appliance like an apple desktop can never encode video "too fast" so I don't think a "you must be this tall ->" sign threshold exists. At least not yet. Someday we'll be able to encode video faster than we can burn DVDs or upload to youtube and then there will be no point at all in further increases for the average buyer. That'll be interesting. Its coming soon, the end of progress in end user raw computer power.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday October 20 2014, @03:44PM
I would argue that for the most part we are already there as very few users are doing any kind of realtime encoding and for everything else even a 5 year old CPU is overkill. I know I used to be the guy that HAD to replace his system every other year (with a hardware upgrade on the off year) because the systems just couldn't keep up, but now? The Phenom II X6 I have at home can transcode video AND burn a DVD as well as play a game or watch a movie and all at the same time.
when you look at what a user actually DOES with their PC, even their HTPC? Most aren't doing anything that can't be done on a 5 year old system. like I said realtime encoding is rare, thanks to the mess that is cablecards and all the other DRM crap and with sites like Hulu and Netflix having actual copies is becoming less and less of a concern. instead what I'm seeing is users ripping their DVD and CD collections and using their HTPCs as a combination mediatank/netbox/game console and for those uses? Slap mediaportal on any $300 Athlon quad system and its all gravy.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday October 20 2014, @02:38PM
How is it "justifiable" for a laptop? It doesn't save ANY space, sure they don't have to make a slot so the user can easily replace it (as they did with most netbooks) but that is NO excuse for soldering it straight to the board! If I as a customer want to deal with the PITA that is tearing down the system so I can get to the RAM and swap it then i should be able to do so, soldering it straight to the board is not only anti-consumer but just makes for more landfill fodder when a memory cell goes bad or an otherwise perfectly good system gets trashed because its so RAM limited its unusable.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 20 2014, @03:44PM
There's two types of soldered-in RAM. One is where they take a regular SO-DIMM, and solder that to the mainboard, which saves the cost of a socker, but little if any space, since you still have all the same layers in your sandwich. The other is to solder RAM chips directly to the mainboard -- which can actually save quite a bit of space, if it allows you to make the whole laptop thinner. (Obviously, no benefit if e.g. normal-height HDDs make the whole laptop thick enough for SO-DIMMs anyway, but for SSD-only machines it can matter.) Discussing the pros and cons of soldered-in RAM without mentioning which type you're talking about is pointless and stupid.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Monday October 20 2014, @05:35PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Monday October 20 2014, @09:27PM
How exactly does that work? DRAM still requires X amount of power to keep the cells alive and you can't tell me balls of that crappy new green solder can carry power better than a copper on copper slot connection. But let us say that you are 100% correct...does that 20% in savings REALLY justify making something landfill fodder? Memory cells DO go bad, they are a hell of a lot more likely to fail than any other part short of the disk drives and its not like modern OSes can handle having bad RAM cells so is it REALLY worth the trade off, when we are talking about something running off the mains no less?
Of course lets cut through the bullshit, ok? YOU know this isn't why its being done, just as I know that isn't why its being done, its being done so they can charge $300 for RAM that the user could buy for $80 anywhere else. Just more corporate douchebaggery from a company that told their users they are too damned stupid to hold a cell phone correctly and refused to admit that they were getting pwned by malware because MacDefender was a trojan and not a virus so that don't count...yeah bullshit, just more douchebaggery and the sad part is the users will take it and probably praise Apple for that righteous assfucking they just got!
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Monday October 20 2014, @10:15PM
Of course lets cut through the bullshit, ok? YOU know this isn't why its being done, just as I know that isn't why its being done, its being done so they can charge $300 for RAM that the user could buy for $80 anywhere else.
I doubt it. The memory has to be installed back at the factory in China. That costs them a lot more than having me just purchase the simms and put it in myself. It also creates an inventory situation since they can't just keep every permutation of systems at their stores, instead the people that walk in have to make their selection and wait five days for it to ship.
I think the real reason is they felt having the laptop thinner and made of a uni-body was likely to earn them more sales. The $200 premium isn't near as nice as it was pre-Retina days.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday October 21 2014, @12:18AM
What cost? Working conditions and pay are sooo bad over there that Foxconn had to install a net to catch the workers trying to commit suicide, no way in hell they are paying them enough to not make fat bank on that $300 RAM, no way. When you consider that Cook made sure Apple got insanely low prices by buying their parts over a year in advance? if that "$300" RAM cost them even $40 I'd be amazed, figure in at most another $20 to have some sweatshop worker install it and you are talking $240 pure profit per unit!
And what laptop? we are talking about Mac mini, you know, the desktop unit? You can't tell me that soldering the RAM into a unit drawing off the mains was done for ANY reason other than price gouging, and just one more bit of proof that Cook is more like Balmer than Jobs, a stuffed suit that is gonna nickel and dime the customers until he sours the branding.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday October 21 2014, @12:34AM
What cost?
You mean besides having to take it off the line, solder the RAM in, and ship it individually to somebody's house? Even at the pay-rate you're assuming that's still way more expensive than installing it in-store or having the customer do it. There's also the inventory issue I mentioned that you must have accidentally skipped over.
Working conditions and pay are sooo bad over there that Foxconn had to install a net to catch the workers trying to commit suicide...
You are not well informed.
...to not make fat bank on that $300 RAM.
Two hundred.
And what laptop?
You asked: How is it "justifiable" for a laptop?
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Tuesday October 21 2014, @12:57PM
...so if they don't solder the RAM directly to the board...nobody ever has to install it or something?
They've gotta install the RAM at the factory anyway. Whether it's a fixed amount of four different options, it's still the same basic process. Might now take a couple seconds extra per laptop, from somebody making a couple bucks a day, but it saves a minute or two per laptop from somebody making ten or twenty bucks an hour if they were really having them customized at the Apple stores...
But in fact if you look at the sales page for the mac mini...they have four options. These options have differences in RAM -- but also in CPU, battery, display, and storage. They're not giving people more options, they're giving them *fewer*. They have *less* to keep in inventory and less to assemble. You can't throw 8GB of RAM in with the 2.5GHz processor anymore. If you want 8GB of RAM, you're forced to buy the 2.6GHz CPU.
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Wednesday October 22 2014, @01:19AM
Dude where the fuck have YOU been? Would you like a link to the suicide nets, complete with pics? Ask and ye shall receive [dailytech.com]. And regular RAM installs itself...by magic? And are you really gonna honestly try to sell us on them actually taking each individual board and hand soldering in the RAM, a process that is practically designed for automated lines?
If you wanna kiss the Apple booty and try to explain away their douchebag behavior you really need to bring better arguments, yours don't even hold up to the most trivial of examination, sorry. BTW if you wanna pay the Apple premium because you like OSX or the designs or just because? Then please, enjoy them in good health, I wish you nothing but happiness with your purchase. We are all individuals and have our own tastes and I would never try to tell someone they couldn't enjoy different things than I, that's what makes us individuals after all.
But please don't try to justify corporate douchebaggery just because you like the brand, you end up jumping through logic hoops the size of Texas and posting illogical shit that don't pass muster like what you posted. I'm not the only one that noticed either, look at the other post, he caught the same problems in your argument. As I said your argument MIGHT hold water if we were talking about the Air, where the battery is a sliver and every mw counts...we are on the mains dude, none of that argument works here. Just accept that Apple are being dicks and move on, just as I had to accept Balmer was a pathetic CEO and Win 8 was deep fried ass, just because you liked previous products does NOT provide an indicator of future performance and behavior, mmkay?
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Wednesday October 22 2014, @01:54AM
Would you like a link to the suicide nets, complete with pics? Ask and ye shall receive.
When being accused of being mis-informed, consider checking the date on the materials you offer as rebuttal.
And are you really gonna honestly try to sell us on them actually taking each individual board and hand soldering in the RAM, a process that is practically designed for automated lines?
Yep. I mentioned other stuff you ignored, too.
I'm not the only one that noticed either, look at the other post, he caught the same problems in your argument.
Not really, he didn't read my post very carefully. His observations about the fewer configurations of the Mini actually supported my point, he didn't catch that while writing it.
If you wanna kiss the Apple booty...
I'm sorry my experience purchasing Apple laptops is in direct conflict with your agenda. It's a pity though because you're going to walk away from this thread with a swiss-cheese memory of what we talked about, including overlooking that I had actually criticized this approach in the first post I made. Hopefully one day you'll forgive me for not reading your sermon in its entirety.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 22 2014, @11:55PM
If you had actually been interested in the truth of the matter you would have looked a little deeper than what fit your preconceived notions and found that the suicide rate in Foxconn factories is LOWER than the overall suicide rate in China and LOWER than the rate in the US.
Article is from 2010, but it gets the point across.
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-and-dell-investigating-the-foxconn-working-conditions-2010-5 [businessinsider.com]
"After 9 suicides in 5 months, and reports of brutal working conditions, Apple and Dell say they are investigating the working conditions at Foxconn, the Chinese manufacturer that builds iPads, iPhones and other gadgets.
But while it's obviously a tragedy that any one person, let alone 9, ever commits suicide, let's be clear about one thing: the suicide rate at Foxconn is not particularly high. In fact, at 5.4 suicides per 100,000 people (400,000 people work at Foxconn), the Foxconn suicide rate is lower than it is in all 50 U.S. states.
In Wyoming, where the population is 512,757, and there are no sweatshops, 22.6 people per 100,000 commit suicide, according to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.
In California, the rate is 9.2 – New York, 6.9.
If conditions are so bad, why are so few people offing themselves?
Let us know how that Crow tastes. I know you won't read this, but other people will.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday October 20 2014, @03:28PM
All the laptops I ever bought did not have soldered RAM. I'm sure more "ultrabooks" do, and almost all tablets or two-in-ones.
I'm happy as long as a laptop can take 8 GB of RAM, until maybe 2016 or universal memory appears.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]